16/3/2010
Clean
60kg 2x5
80kg 2x3
90kg x 3
100kg x 3
110kg x 3
120kg x 1,1
Back Squat
70kg x 5
110kg x 3
160kg x 2
180kg 6x2
Easy session back is still cunted.
Today:
Power Snatch:
80x3/3
85x3/2
90x3/1
95x2/1
100/1, F,F
Power Cleans:
90x3/3
95x2/3
100x2/3
105x3/1
90x3/3
Ran out of time so didnt do jerks off the boxes today or GHR, Ill get it done tomorrow. I wanted to go beyond 100kg on the power snatches but I clarked two after my first single so I decided to move on. The power cleans today were light but voluminous today so I can work on moving fast under fatigue.
Tuesday -
PowerSnatch + Press from shoulders + OHS
40x2+2+2x3
PowerSnatch
50x5
57x3x3
Snatch Pull
60x3
70x3x3
Back Squat
70x3
100x4
120x3x5
bar work + hypers
bw was 95.5kg.
meh day, my left hand is hurting on snatchs and cleans and jerks… feels like a tendon is inflammed, icing and ibuprofen’ing the shit out of it.
GqArtguy : you clarked it? Do i happen to know you? I thought only people @ my gym (FDU) used that term!
Hey there Gents. Been lurkin’ for a minute. I’m not into it for comp., but I do prefer training with the Olys. Anyway, I figure you all will be the ones with an answer to my question…
Last week I started having some trouble with my wrists, i.e. getting tight and popping ALOT! It got to a point that I didn’t even attempt snatches after I finished doing CJs. Now, they’ll bend back just fine under the weight, what I’m wondering is whether or not I’m pushing too much/too hard/too fast or too often for the joints to keep up. Could my age have something to do with it? I’m almost 38.
I’ve been working at 85-95% on the CJs 3X a week (roughly, depends some weeks-sometimes I get more like 3-4 days between oly days). Throwing some strength/hypertrophy days in between.
I was also wondering if anyone could suggest a website to get some quality wrist wraps/supports? Or should I just dial back down a bit, and not push so hard-so often?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Strong lifts, everyone!
[quote]CDQAR24 wrote:
Hey there Gents. Been lurkin’ for a minute. I’m not into it for comp., but I do prefer training with the Olys. Anyway, I figure you all will be the ones with an answer to my question…
Last week I started having some trouble with my wrists, i.e. getting tight and popping ALOT! It got to a point that I didn’t even attempt snatches after I finished doing CJs. Now, they’ll bend back just fine under the weight, what I’m wondering is whether or not I’m pushing too much/too hard/too fast or too often for the joints to keep up. Could my age have something to do with it? I’m almost 38.
I’ve been working at 85-95% on the CJs 3X a week (roughly, depends some weeks-sometimes I get more like 3-4 days between oly days). Throwing some strength/hypertrophy days in between.
I was also wondering if anyone could suggest a website to get some quality wrist wraps/supports? Or should I just dial back down a bit, and not push so hard-so often?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Strong lifts, everyone! [/quote]
First of all your age is not only irrelevant, it’s OBSOLETE!!! Seriously, almost 38??? Are you implying you’re too old and somehow associating this with your wrists??? LOL!!!
While the immediate thought that pops to mind is wrist mobility/flexibilty drills, I would suggest you take a deeper perspective on this matter and take a first look at the integrity of your shoulder and thoracic region. How mobile are you in your ability to protract your scapula (spread your shoulder blades apart) in conjuction with maintaining humeral external rotation and humeral flexion? (elbows in front held HIGH with your forearms pronated - inother words “RACK” position)
When you have the requisite mobility and kinesthetic awareness in your shoulders/upper back(as mentioned above), you can then look at your wrists as part of the remainder of this complex kinetic chain. There is a plethora of muscles/connective tissue in your hands and forearms which need to be stretched ROUTINELY and in a manner SPECIFIC to the rack position with the bar.
I would recommend AGAINST wrist supports. Here in the world of Olympic Lifting, we pride ourselves is being a strength sport which shuns supportive material/crutches of any sort.
Work on mobility from your shoulders down to your finger tips and you will NOT have any wrist issues relevant to the lifts. You will adapt in a short period of time.
Also I would recommend that you snatch BEFORE you clean & jerk. Your wrists will get a good warm-up as a result of the extreme radial deviation/wrist extension that takes place while holding the bar overhead in a snatch grip. This will carry over well when you transition to the clean which focuses more on a pure wrist extension alignment.
As an option perhaps you can post a few pics or a video while performing a light clean & jerk. This can help in identifying possible flaws in your form/body position.
Most importantly, don’t end being one of these retards that just keeps “MISSIN’ and MOVIN’ UP!”
[quote]Egg Head wrote:
I would recommend AGAINST wrist supports. Here in the world of Olympic Lifting, we pride ourselves is being a strength sport which shuns supportive material/crutches of any sort.
Work on mobility from your shoulders down to your finger tips and you will NOT have any wrist issues relevant to the lifts. You will adapt in a short period of time.[/quote]
You might pride yourself, but the entire rest of the world doesn’t seem to have problem using wrist supports or ‘supportive’ belts.
[quote]dfreezy wrote:
[quote]Egg Head wrote:
I would recommend AGAINST wrist supports. Here in the world of Olympic Lifting, we pride ourselves is being a strength sport which shuns supportive material/crutches of any sort.
Work on mobility from your shoulders down to your finger tips and you will NOT have any wrist issues relevant to the lifts. You will adapt in a short period of time.[/quote]
You might pride yourself, but the entire rest of the world doesn’t seem to have problem using wrist supports or ‘supportive’ belts.[/quote]
No, there’s a hell lot more people within the realm of “the rest of the world” who prides themselves also. Or atleast there was.
I remember debates (8-10 years ago) would rage in which Olympic lifters and power lifters would go head to head over the legitimacy of their strength/performance. Often times these arguments started and ended revolving around the topic of supportive gear and specifically the LACK of it in the Olympic lifting domain. Many found solidarity in the lack/avoidance of supportive gear and it practically became a dominant paradigm for many Olympic lifters.
Strossen of Ironmind promoted Ivan Chakarov’s near 600lb triple (93 World’s training hall) as a NO-NO-NO full squat. As in NO belt, NO wraps, NO spotters. There were shirts, posters and images of him this all over the internet. Why do you think Strossen did this? I guess times have changed.
Nice job nitpicking my post. In all likelihood the original poster was/is having mobility issues. If that’s the case, he would benefit from addressing this and being patient as opposed to buying wrist supports which will do nothing to solve the possible underlying problem(poor flexibilty, mobility).
Then again look at the positive of all this. Dfreezy sounds like a cool name. Perhaps you can endorse a line of singlets, belts, shoes(customized 2-3" heel!!!), straps, wraps(knee, wrist), sleeves(elbow,knee). Better do it quick before Inzer, Titan and Metal move in on our supportive equipment-loving Olympic lifting community.
[quote]CDQAR24 wrote:
Hey there Gents. Been lurkin’ for a minute. I’m not into it for comp., but I do prefer training with the Olys. Anyway, I figure you all will be the ones with an answer to my question…
Last week I started having some trouble with my wrists, i.e. getting tight and popping ALOT! It got to a point that I didn’t even attempt snatches after I finished doing CJs. Now, they’ll bend back just fine under the weight, what I’m wondering is whether or not I’m pushing too much/too hard/too fast or too often for the joints to keep up. Could my age have something to do with it? I’m almost 38.
I’ve been working at 85-95% on the CJs 3X a week (roughly, depends some weeks-sometimes I get more like 3-4 days between oly days). Throwing some strength/hypertrophy days in between.
I was also wondering if anyone could suggest a website to get some quality wrist wraps/supports? Or should I just dial back down a bit, and not push so hard-so often?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Strong lifts, everyone! [/quote]
Does the popping hurt? Post a vid of an 85-95% lift before listening to someone trying to diagnose you over the internet, trying to speak for all OLers, and bringing up testosteroney internet arguments from 10yrs ago.
[quote]GqArtguy wrote:
[quote]CDQAR24 wrote:
Hey there Gents. Been lurkin’ for a minute. I’m not into it for comp., but I do prefer training with the Olys. Anyway, I figure you all will be the ones with an answer to my question…
Last week I started having some trouble with my wrists, i.e. getting tight and popping ALOT! It got to a point that I didn’t even attempt snatches after I finished doing CJs. Now, they’ll bend back just fine under the weight, what I’m wondering is whether or not I’m pushing too much/too hard/too fast or too often for the joints to keep up. Could my age have something to do with it? I’m almost 38.
I’ve been working at 85-95% on the CJs 3X a week (roughly, depends some weeks-sometimes I get more like 3-4 days between oly days). Throwing some strength/hypertrophy days in between.
I was also wondering if anyone could suggest a website to get some quality wrist wraps/supports? Or should I just dial back down a bit, and not push so hard-so often?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Strong lifts, everyone! [/quote]
Does the popping hurt? Post a vid of an 85-95% lift before listening to someone trying to diagnose you over the internet, trying to speak for all OLers, and bringing up testosteroney internet arguments from 10yrs ago. [/quote]
He states he’s having trouble with his wrists. Is it really prudent for him to attempt a lift in the 85-95% range for purposes of a video assessment when feedback can be SAFELY gleened from how he may handle the bar and/or very light poundages??? Don’t quit your day job!
Original poster - If you have any doubts about the effectiveness of a video assessment and want to play it safe, have a Weight Lifting coach or seasoned lifter check you out IN PERSON. Shouldn’t be too hard to find one out in Texas.
[quote]Egg Head wrote:
He states he’s having trouble with his wrists. Is it really prudent for him to attempt a lift in the 85-95% range for purposes of a video assessment when feedback can be SAFELY gleened from how he may handle the bar and/or very light poundages??? Don’t quit your day job!
Original poster - If you have any doubts about the effectiveness of a video assessment and want to play it safe, have a Weight Lifting coach or seasoned lifter check you out IN PERSON. Shouldn’t be too hard to find one out in Texas.[/quote]
He also states his wrists are fine bearing a load so if thats not an issue, watching his lift will give better information. A light lift might not tell much if his form is breaking down at higher percentages (unless his form is poor at light weights). Interestng that youre now calling for him to go an in person coach after you tried to play e-physical therapist and called for a video. Even more interesting that youre concerned about the stress on his wrists after telling him that he shouldnt use wrist wraps.
[quote]GqArtguy wrote:
[quote]Egg Head wrote:
He states he’s having trouble with his wrists. Is it really prudent for him to attempt a lift in the 85-95% range for purposes of a video assessment when feedback can be SAFELY gleened from how he may handle the bar and/or very light poundages??? Don’t quit your day job!
Original poster - If you have any doubts about the effectiveness of a video assessment and want to play it safe, have a Weight Lifting coach or seasoned lifter check you out IN PERSON. Shouldn’t be too hard to find one out in Texas.[/quote]
He also states his wrists are fine bearing a load so if thats not an issue, watching his lift will give better information. A light lift might not tell much if his form is breaking down at higher percentages (unless his form is poor at light weights). Interestng that youre now calling for him to go an in person coach after you tried to play e-physical therapist and called for a video. Even more interesting that youre concerned about the stress on his wrists after telling him that he shouldnt use wrist wraps. [/quote]
If his wrists are so fine bearing a load and that it’s not an issue, then what are some possible reasons as to why he’s complaining about his wrists in the first place? He posted a question of limited detail on an internet forum so I gave him an answer. Maybe they’re not so fine bearing a load and a PROPER rack position could alleviate that (assuming the rack is the issue).
He mentions his wrists feel “tight” A wrist’s tightness can be dictated by the tension/laxity in the surrounding tissue (both contractile and non-contractile). Mobility/flexibilty work can help if that’s the case. On the other hand if he’s actually “injured” his wrists, then some of the tightess can stem from the edema resulting from the inflamatory response.
If this is a mobilty/flexibility issue, a light weight can speak volumes. It could also be possible that 85-95% weights are too heavy resulting in:
- A bar that’s “racked” in a position resembling the end of a reverse barbell curl (this will kill the wrists along with the elbows and rotator cuff. May not hurt while you’re doing it but the pain and dysfunction can become evident later and manifest themselves in an overuse type of injury over a short period of time).
I originally suggested as an OPTION he could post pics or a video of a LIGHT clean & jerk (not 85-95%). Because chances are his wrists are bearing the brunt of a less than optimal rack position . Wrist complaints can be common and this (poor racking + heavy loads)is a common culprit. So I made a common assumption and gave him possible insight. Nothing carved in stone here.
I recommended that he avoid wrist supports as to not introduce a false crutch into the picture. I’m concerned about the stress on his wrists as it may be tied in with poor technique and flexibility issues, and that he should address that FIRST.
Team Missin’ & Moving Up’ - “I just missed my previous weights, let me get my supportive
gear on before I slap on two more 5kg plates!”
Boxing wraps - cut them in half and re-hem them. Make sure you warm up your wrists/finger/elbows/shoulders properly first, and do your bar warmups without them. I also like to start a session with a few front squats as I find this gets things moving better than just stretching etc.
clean&jerk
2x2x70
2x80
5x2x85
got told that my cleans are good but i am not being aggressive enough with the jerk
snatch
6x2x40
fuck yessss! i think i finally got how to pull under
side lateral raises
3x8
good morning
2x15x50
and abs because you cant never have too strong middle section
Wednesday 17/3/2010
Power Snatch
Bar work
40kg x 3
50kg x 3
60kg x 3
70kg x 1
75kg x 1 (video)
Clean and Jerk
75kg x 3
90kg x 2
100kg x 1
110kg x 1
Back Squat
60kg x 5
100kg x 5
140kg x 5
160kg x 2
190kg x 2
140kg x 5
Found out that the scottish open is this sunday in glasgow 8 days notice for my first comp good work scottish weightlifting.
Looking to open
75/80kg Power Snatch
115/120kg Clean and Jerk
Anything else is a bonus.
think I forgot to attach.
[quote]The Ox Man wrote:
I did 4 sets of 3 at 45kg, one set of 2 (with 1 miss) at 45kg and one set of 3 at 40kg. But duly noted. Ideally I would have got into the gym 15-30 mins earlier so I could take my time a bit more, take a bit more rest and get in a couple more sets. The gym started to get pretty busy as well and the place is pretty damn small so I got less comfortable with the amount of room!
Unfortunately I’m not able to make it down to the club on wednesday, sucks. But will be there on sat![/quote]
Yes get the 6sets down mate.
[quote]Invictica wrote:
[quote]Koing wrote:
Has anyone ever made any reasonble PB on the second day out of interest? It seems savagely unlikely to make a PB on the 2nd day if you went balls to the wall on the first day. Especially when you do heavy Snatch, C&J and squats all on the same day!
The mind may be willing but the body is not. I can see if you missed through technical issues it would be different then missing through not being quite strong enough. In those instances I see a very little % of getting PB’s on the 2nd day.
How has your team progressed? Mine has been slow over the past 30months due to keeping my bodyweight down and lifting crap in comp because of that. Started seeing PB’s when I ditched the 85kg class and moved to the 94kg class. No more cutting that was sapping all of my strength!
Koing[/quote]
Yea it has happened, I’ve made a CJ PR on the 2nd day before after a 5kg Snatch PR on the first day. The body is a weird thing. But usually on the 2nd day you’re running on sheer will power. The body recovers suprisingly fast though, and usually you can still put out a fairly solid performance on the 2nd day, given you eat and sleep enough.
Team is progressing quite well. I’ve made a 25kg (75->100) jump in my snatch and a 30kg (90 → 120) jump in my clean and jerk over about 10 months. Our 105 guy has made a 30kg jump in his snatch and a 50kg jump in his clean and jerk a little over a year. We have a 17 year old 94 snatching 132 and CJing 155, after 4 years of training.
Dunno if those are good rates of progress but we’re still consistently making gains, so I guess that’s a good sign!
Shit, good luck man! I hope you’re still seeing good gains in 94. You work pretty hard so they’ll come along pretty soon.
[/quote]
Aight! You got any videos on youtube? Your probably subscribed but I can’t put your tnation name to your aol name.
Your all progressing well! Solid gains! The 17yr old is f0cking sharp! Very very sharp Snatch.
Koing
[quote]Egg Head wrote:
No, there’s a hell lot more people within the realm of “the rest of the world” who prides themselves also. Or atleast there was.[/quote]
Yes, times have changed. With the exception of one lifter, every gold winner in Beijing wore ‘supportive’ equipment for his/her lifts. I wasn’t inferring anything about your advice on fixing the underlying issue, but to imply supportive gear should never be worn or carries a stigma is a bit silly. IMO its surprising to see lifters not wear some sort of support given the amount of volume and stress they put on their joints.
[quote]Egg Head wrote:
If his wrists are so fine bearing a load and that it’s not an issue, then what are some possible reasons as to why he’s complaining about his wrists in the first place? [/quote]
Could be poor form, overuse, or even mobility/flexibity, or something else but YOU (nor I) dont know that without video
Maybe, but you dont know that without a video. Your first post was playing e-PT with (to use your words) limited detail, then you went on some nonsense about using supportive gear while being unnecessarily sarcastic to others about things they dont do in their training.
[quote]He mentions his wrists feel “tight” A wrist’s tightness can be dictated by the tension/laxity in the surrounding tissue (both contractile and non-contractile). Mobility/flexibilty work can help if that’s the case. On the other hand if he’s actually “injured” his wrists, then some of the tightess can stem from the edema resulting from the inflamatory response.
If this is a mobilty/flexibility issue, a light weight can speak volumes. It could also be possible that 85-95% weights are too heavy resulting in:
- A bar that’s “racked” in a position resembling the end of a reverse barbell curl (this will kill the wrists along with the elbows and rotator cuff. May not hurt while you’re doing it but the pain and dysfunction can become evident later and manifest themselves in an overuse type of injury over a short period of time).[/quote]
This is great if thats the actual issue, but without video youre just blowing hot air.
[quote]I originally suggested as an OPTION he could post pics or a video of a LIGHT clean & jerk (not 85-95%). Because chances are his wrists are bearing the brunt of a less than optimal rack position . Wrist complaints can be common and this (poor racking + heavy loads)is a common culprit. So I made a common assumption and gave him possible insight. Nothing carved in stone here.
I recommended that he avoid wrist supports as to not introduce a false crutch into the picture. I’m concerned about the stress on his wrists as it may be tied in with poor technique and flexibility issues, and that he should address that FIRST. [quote]
Unlike you, Im not going to regurgitate something I read in an Eric Cressey article or play e-pt. Wraps might be a crutch but again you dont know for sure so a video is necessary. He can send you a light video and he can send me a 85-95% lift.
Thursday 18/3/2010
AM
Clean and Jerk (from hip)
bar work
60kg 2x5
80kg 4x5
Front Squat Paused (5 count)
120kg x 1,1
150kg x 1
PM
Power Snatch
bar work
50kg x 3
60kg x 3
70kg x 2
80kg x 1 (real easy think I might hit 90kg sunday)
Clean and Jerk
80kg x 3 (power clean)
90kg x 1 (power clean)
100kg x 1 (power clean)
110kg x 1 (power clean)
120kg x 1
Back Squat (paused)
100kg x 3
140kg x 1
160kg x 1
180kg x 1,1
Well, thanks for all of the feedback gents. Didn’t expect to start an argument though. All very good points it seems. I’ve been thinking about getting a way to video my lifts for critiuqes, so I’ll look further into that and post one when I’m able. Don’t hold your breath cause it’ll be a minute before I’m able
I do a pretty long warm-up/strecthing routine prior to my lifts. I don’t have my log handy, but I can provide a pretty good example:
shoulder dislocates with a closet rod (between 12-20, depending on tightness)
some hip/thigh dynamic stretching
foot roll with a golf ball
some pec stretching
then I superset doing plank combos (side/side/flat or any combo thereof) with a dynamic warm-up routine I got from one of the contributors here:
back squat x 5
OHP x 5
good morning x 5
OH squat x 5
RDL x 5
BOR x 5
Upright Row x 5
Reverse curl x 5
all using the bar only (usually) without putting it down, without stopping. I’ll usually perform that super for at least 3 evos or until I feel good and loose. I may do more reps of any given ex. if I feel the need
I also have a tendency to throw in some hang and power versions of the clean or snatch to get my body ready for the upcoming attempts, usually just with the bar or rod at this time just so I can see if I’m stretched out enough.
Egghead-I can understand your point with the gear thing. I won’t use any gear unless I’m going for PRs because I feel it takes away from the supporting cast, so to speak. So as soon as I’m able, I’ll post some video so you guys can rip me up until I’m getting it right. Unless I can find a professional coach who doesn’t mind helping me for free, I’m afraid I’ll have to depend on the opines of the gentlemen here. Like I said, I’m not into it for a comp. Just for pleasure and a welcome change of pace.
Again, I’d like to thank all who took the time to reply. Your advice will be seriously taken into consideration…
T