[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[i] Now there are two primary mechanisms that CBL discusses:
1- The overnight increase in insulin sensitivity,
2- and non-insulin mediated glucose transport into muscle cells.
First, just to recap, insulin has MANY purposes in the human body, but the most significant one here is its ability to cause glucose uptake by the cell. Basically, when insulin encounters any nutrient storing cell (muscle, liver, fat, etc.), it binds to the insulin receptor, which then (simplify simplify) causes a glucose transporter receptor to come to the surface. It�¢??s essentially telling these cells to �¢??open their gates�¢?? to glucose
There�¢??s a problem with number 1. The CBL book states �¢??Both fat and muscle cells react strongly to insulin in the morning and less so as the day goes on, i.e. insulin sensitivity is high in the morning.�¢?? �¢?�¦this is actually completely, 100% INcorrect.
Even his own references state the exact opposite (as does every biochemistry textbook ever written). The body is insulin RESISTANT in the morning (the well documented �¢??dawn phenomenon�¢??), which means it is LESS capable of quickly storing excess glucose. So, no, your fat cells won�¢??t �¢??soak up sugar like a fat kid with a gallon of melted ice cream and a straw�¢?? as the book states- quite the opposite., Now, the data supporting a few other claims based around this (Including all-day suppression of fat burning) is not really supported by any references- there is a SINGLE study done on ten volunteers where the researchers make this claim, but they themselves state it�¢??s a theory, with more research needed. At least somebody�¢??s being responsible here.
As for number 2, there�¢??s an even bigger problem with this. When you�¢??re exercising, your body is burning glycogen (even at low intensities, some is being used). At high intensities (as when weight training), your muscles are using glycogen as its primary fuel source. In response, your body releases small amounts from your liver as glucose and dumps it into the bloodstream, with the goal of getting this sugar to the working muscles.
This is a small amount of sugar- not enough to cause an insulin response. Now, as an adaptation, your muscles themselves, when stimulated by high intensity activity, signal their OWN cells to open their gates to glucose WITHOUT needing insulin to tell them to- this is precisely to facilitate uptake of this liver-sourced glucose by the muscles that need it most. The CBL argument is then, post exercise, you can take advantage of this selective response by flooding the system with sugar, and the muscles will take up a huge amount of it before insulin is released�¢ thus avoiding an insulin spike and minimizing fat storage.
Bzzt. False. The reason this is so studied for diabetics is because they do NOT release insulin naturally (or, in the case of type 2 diabetics, do not respond to it), so ANY non-insulin related expression of glucose receptors is beneficial- it’s one of the few ways the body can clear sugar from the system (which is toxic in high amounts).
For NON-diabetics, this isn’t a concern. And, in fact, within SECONDS after taking in simple sugars, whether post workout or otherwise, your body releases JUST AS MUCH insulin as any other time of day.
Insulin expression is not governed by the amount of receptors open on muscle cells, it is released a) by high levels of glucose in the blood, and b) on its own in pulses throughout the day. The few seconds that a handful of muscles have their glucose transporters open before the floodgates open are in no way clinically significant�¢?�¦ you�¢??d be talking maybe a few extra grams shunted into muscles as opposed to fat cells. The reason is simple- there�¢??s only so much glycogen storage capacity in your muscle cells, and even prolonged high intensity weight training won�¢??t do much to drain these stores. All they really need is a few grams to fill them up again, and any extra glucose simply floats on by, right to the fat cells it was destined for all along.
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Again, I’ve got no dog in the CBL fight (if anyone wants to view it as such). As a pro competitor and coach, I go with what I know without a doubt works, and works well. Until I see a physique competitor who brings a package that is unquestionably impressive by judging, not gymrat standards, and has been built with the latest nutrition approach, I’ll stick with the good ol’ tried and true, and will always suggest others to do the same.
I am glad you feel you got your best results though. I hope my opinions won’t be taken as any type of stirring up sh-t. You do seem to be sporting an excellent build.
S[/quote]
Hey, Stu. I see what this person is saying here, but as with many of the anti-Kiefer proponents online, I think he gathered the “main points” from the book from someone else’s writing, someone who also didn’t read the book. It’s kinda like the telephone game.
The first part, he didn’t necessarily get Kiefer wrong. He was just, simply incorrect. Insulin sensitivity is highest first thing in the morning. LITERALLY EVERYTHING ANYWHERE agrees with that. I don’t use all caps lightly either, haha. This is why everyone is told to eat their oats in the morning. The body is much more likely to use it for fuel throughout the day rather than fat.
That leads me to the 2nd part. Here, the guy who wrote this just missed what Kiefer was saying completely. Kiefer discovered this tweak while studying non-insulin mediated GLUT translocation in diabetics. He’s never once said that, in healthy individuals, eating a bunch of carbs post workout will allow glucose to be carried into the muscle cells before insulin is released. He teaches people to go for the biggest insulin spike possible post workout. He even advocates using Leucine and Hydrolysates along with Whey and Dextrose to really flood the blood stream with insulin. The whole point is to take advantage of the fact that the muscle cells, in healthy humans as with diabetics, will preferentially soak up the sugar in the bloodstream rather than the fat cells after resistance training. How is this different than what anyone else is doing? Don’t we all already focus heavily on the post training window? The difference is, and this is another part the guy reference above missed, by avoiding carbs in the first part of the day, fat is mobilized more readily, there’s no opportunity for any unused carbs to be stored as fat, and (this is the big one) by training with no carbs in your bloodstream, adrenaline is released allowing muscle cells to utilize glycogen stores as their primary fuel.
If you train with glucose already in your bloodstream, because it is toxic there, the body will utilize it first. This means until it is burned up, you’re not tapping into your muscle glycogen. One of the first things I noticed when I started CBL’ing was my intensity went up and I never experienced the dreaded rebound hypoglycemia post workout if I didn’t get to my shake or a banana or a cliff bar quickly enough. Now, since someone who backloads is able to burn through more of their glycogen stores than someone who ate carbs all day, the CBL’er can then expect more of his/her post workout carbs to be stored as muscle glycogen, especially at the end of the day when fat cells are more resistant and muscle cells would get preferential treatment with or without insulin post training as we learned from the studies on diabetics.
Clear as mud?
