[quote]adguig wrote:
We were pretty unlucky to go out the last world cup (lucky goal) and the last euro (referee declaring our perfectly good goal offside) with lesser squads.[/quote]
How is this different from Spain, for instance? If anyone can lay claim to the “getting raped by bad luck in international competition” its the Spaniards.
On paper, at least. But I would put Spain and Brazil’s midfield right there with England’s as well.
This is all well and good ON PAPER. But as a cautionary tale I will offer Argentina and France in WC 2002 - also on paper amongst the elite sides in the world at the time… or how about Spain in WC 1998? Once you put them on the pitch, you cannot predict what will happen - the level of competition once out of the knockout stages is too even.
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The team spirit and drive is top notch,[/quote]
No offense, but this is a cliche - and means nothing - at this point all the teams would presumably have “spirit” and a top notch “drive”. I mean how can you even begin to measure this?
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and there is a ton of experience behind them all. There has never been a better prepared England side. Hopefully we will live a bit more upto expectations tomorrow, we should whoop T+TB. [/quote]
I hope so. I like watching England play - but I find it funny how the English put so much expectation on their sides, when the results - taken impartially - do not merit such lofty expectation. And it’s not only the fans that are guilty of this but the media (on both sides of the pond) as well.
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Funny how you said that Germany know how to win games [/quote]
Yes, they do. Just look what they did today against Poland. England or Spain - and it probably ends in a draw.
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- surely England do too? [/quote]
I was more referring to the famous chokes in Euro 96 against Germany in the semis, WC 1990 (Waddle’s miss) against the Germans, Beckham’s meltdown in WC 1998, the complete clusterfuck that was Euro 2000, the penalties in the quarters against the Portuguese in Euro 2004 - shit like that.
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We won plenty in qualifying and have 1/1 so far in the world cup, soon to be 2/2 after tomorrow. Paraguay are better opposition than Germany have played so far, yet we played pathetic and won. [/quote]
I am surprised that there is no concern from the England camp - yes, the English played poorly and won on an own-goal - but the way I see it if Rooney is not on form - the team is fucked - best midfield in the world not withstanding - if there is no one to finish what good is it?
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Brazil also played pretty poorly, would you say they are over-rated and have no chance? [/quote]
Yes, they played poorly. But then again, they have 5 titles and have been in every WC Final since 1994 (winning in '94 and '02) They have the deepest squad in the WC and their past results would merit the expectations placed on them.
All I am saying is that recent history does not justify why England should be considered an odds-on favorite to hoist the Cup. There are too many intangibles that occur on the pitch to justify this.
As I see it - there are only two legitimate contenders - the Brazilians - based on their recent international dominance - and the Germans - because history has shown how much of an advantage the home soil really is. Every other team for various reasons is either a dark-horse or has no chance in hell.
Look at USA in '94 (woefully overmatched and almost beat Brazil in the second round, France in '98 (people knew they were good, but who expected them to hoist the Cup? ) and the Koreans in the last WC.
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Germany definitely have the advantage of home soil, but I don’t think they have the quality to win it.[/quote]
You’re probably right - but I don’t understand how people discount them so much. Weak side, or not, remember this is all relative to past German sides, who for the most part were pretty damn good. That said this German side, while weak for a German side, is still probably better than 90% of the teams out there.
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Ballack and Klose are maybe their only real world class players IMO.[/quote]
You put too much emphasis on the number of world class players in a lineup. This is a TEAM sport - the team that plays best as a TEAM will win. Based on your logic - why hasn’t Real Madrid won anything in the era of the “Galacticos” - a top to bottom world-class dream team if there ever was one !!
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Spain are looking good though after one game. Finally they might live upto their potential on paper which they so often disappoint with. [/quote]
In the interests of disclosure, I am a Spain fan - have been since the '82 Cup when I was nothing but a little kid.
But this is what I’m talking about. How are the recent England performances any different ?
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It’s all good talking about performances so far but one game really doesn’t a mean a great deal. [/quote]
Agreed. That’s why I’m approaching this Spanish victory with great trepidation. That and the fact that Brazil awaits the Spanish in the quarterfinals if both sides go through on top of their groups. A scary thought.
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One thing though - does anyone else apart from Thierry Henry and me think they need to water the damn pitches?!? It’s dry as a bone out there and the ball is so slow along the turf.[/quote]
I guess it all depends on what style football you play. The dry pitches would seem to favor methodical teams like the Germans and Dutch and would hurt teams like Brazil, England, and Spain - although I can’t say it affected the Spaniards much today!
A very promising start to the WC - a lot of great matches so far. Let’s hope it continues in Match Day 2.
I can’t wait to see Zidane and Henry play more in the games to come, I loved France’s game against Switzerland.
