[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
And I used to worship AC Milan back in the days when van Basten and Gullit played there. [/quote]
Animal, there is something wrong with a soccer fan if you didn’t like that team.
The AC Milan teams of the late 80’s was perhaps the greatest club side ever. (58 straight unbeaten - ridiculous!)
Other contenders:
Cruyff’s 1992 FC Barcelona “Dream Team”
2002 Real Madrid - the original “galacticos”
by the way it was very cool how portugal’s goalkeeper was up there in the other side’s penalty box area at the last two minutes… if only france were ahead by more than one goal i would have liked him to score!
That twice this month I have had the pleasure of watching Critiano Ronaldo cry like a little bitch, and it feels good!
What a bunch of snidey diving cunts they do not deserve to be in the semis let alone the final.
Hope to see Ronaldo crying like a bitch once more when Rooney goes in high and two footed in the next manu training session
[quote]Stuey wrote:
Well done France.
Fuck you Portugal.
Ronaldo was booed every time he touched the ball, that lad is unpopular everywhere it seems!
Bring on a quality final, don’t even care who wins, just want to see a good game.[/quote]
Perfectly summed up!
[quote]hspder wrote:
Stuey wrote:
Well done France.
Fuck you Portugal.
Now that’s not very high of you, is it? Kick them while they’re down?
Not that I expect much from an Englishman, honestly.
Seriously, it was a good game, and, even though France did not deserve to win (France played MUCH below their average, and Portugal basically dominated most of the game), it’s just a game, and, to a certain extent, Portugal can’t really complain too much about the referee’s (obviously bad) call, since they were on the beneficiary side of previous bad calls.
[/quote]
Firstly, Portugal demonstrated once again what a bunch of cynical cheats they are. It is a disgrace to the game and it would be a mockery if they were in the final of the World Cup. I am pleased that they were knocked out and perhaps I expressed myself a bit emotionally.
[quote]
Not that I expect much from an Englishman, honestly. [/quote]
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
[quote]
Portugal can’t really complain too much about the referee’s (obviously bad) call[/quote]
What bad call?? Henry beat Carvalho and was clearly fouled, it was a penalty. I don’t get how anyone who has seen the incident, either in real time or especially on the replays can say otherwise with a straight face?!
[quote]hspder wrote:
Stuey wrote:
Well done France.
Fuck you Portugal.
Now that’s not very high of you, is it? Kick them while they’re down?
Not that I expect much from an Englishman, honestly.
Seriously, it was a good game, and, even though France did not deserve to win (France played MUCH below their average, and Portugal basically dominated most of the game), it’s just a game, and, to a certain extent, Portugal can’t really complain too much about the referee’s (obviously bad) call, since they were on the beneficiary side of previous bad calls.
That’s life. And life is not fair.
So, no hard feelings. It’s all good.
Let’s see how it goes against Germany. Not that it matters much, but I’m curious how two clearly depressed teams will play.
And, yes, I’m rooting for ITALY on the final. And if France plays as poorly as they did today, they are going DOWN.
FORZA ITALIA![/quote]
Portugal dominated the game because France let them. Despite this they never once looked like scoring, even with Bartez doing his best to help them out with his girly-fumbles.
Glad to see Ronaldo’s reception.
Hopefully the France who played Brazil will turn up for the final and win me a ?ton.
I would say yes it is relevant to my argument. Their World Cup record speaks for itself, they have not been eliminated on the pitch in 3 of the last 4 Cups, and the 1 defeat is highly suspicious.
Yet, where is the respect?
[quote]OARSMAN wrote:
Italy’s record in the last 9 cups:
1970: 2nd
1974: 4th place
1978: 4th place
1982: Campioni del mondo, World champs
1986:knocked out in 2nd round
1990:4th place, eliminated on penalty kicks
Irrelevant to your argument
[quote]Stuey wrote:
Not that I expect much from an Englishman, honestly.
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?[/quote]
It means what I said. Nothing more, nothing less. I can, however, elaborate on what drove me to that opinion: you have clearly different values, and kicking people while they’re down doesn’t seem to be frowned upon as much as it is in Southern Europe. Southern Europeans might be primadonnas sometimes (heck, it’s an Italian word!), be quite theatrical, and generally have no regard for rules or law (most Southern Europeans like to see themselves as rebels at heart who have questionable respect for authority), but we simply never, EVER kick people while they’re down. Actually that’s the first thing I remember my Portuguese grandfather telling me.
[quote]Stuey wrote:
What bad call?? Henry beat Carvalho and was clearly fouled, it was a penalty. I don’t get how anyone who has seen the incident, either in real time or especially on the replays can say otherwise with a straight face?![/quote]
A penalty kick is an extremely harsh punishment. Harsher than a red card, and, in high-stakes matches, usually only reserved for intentional fouls in clear goal situations. This did not fill all those requirements. I can safely say 90% of referees out there would not have called a penalty in that situation.
However, as I said, I don’t resent it, since we were on the receiving end of such freebies before. It’s just life.
[quote]Sonny S wrote:
I would say yes it is relevant to my argument. Their World Cup record speaks for itself, they have not been eliminated on the pitch in 3 of the last 4 Cups, and the 1 defeat is highly suspicious.
Yet, where is the respect?[/quote]
I think in this thread you are looking at a biased sample of people – mostly Germans and Anglo-Saxons. After all, this is an English-language site. Everybody I know from Portugal, Spain and Latin America has the utmost respect for Italy and is now rooting for you guys.
I think the cultural gap does play a bit part in that lack of respect… Most people don’t respect what they do not understand.
For example, it’s actually quite fascinating to hear that most people expected the whole scandal going on in Italy to affect the Italian team. Nothing could be farther from the truth – in fact, it just gives them an incentive to focus and play even better.
FORZA ITALIA!
[quote]hspder wrote:
A penalty kick is an extremely harsh punishment. Harsher than a red card, and, in high-stakes matches, usually only reserved for intentional fouls in clear goal situations.
[/quote]
Erm… That’s not quite the understanding I have of when a referee can award a penalty… Something to do with fouling in the area, no?
[quote]hspder wrote:
Sonny S wrote:
I would say yes it is relevant to my argument. Their World Cup record speaks for itself, they have not been eliminated on the pitch in 3 of the last 4 Cups, and the 1 defeat is highly suspicious.
Yet, where is the respect?
I think in this thread you are looking at a biased sample of people – mostly Germans and Anglo-Saxons. After all, this is an English-language site. Everybody I know from Portugal, Spain and Latin America has the utmost respect for Italy and is now rooting for you guys.
I think the cultural gap does play a bit part in that lack of respect… Most people don’t respect what they do not understand.
For example, it’s actually quite fascinating to hear that most people expected the whole scandal going on in Italy to affect the Italian team. Nothing could be farther from the truth – in fact, it just gives them an incentive to focus and play even better.
FORZA ITALIA!
[/quote]
Italy deserved their win and I do respect any team with as good a defense as them. However, the Italian league would have to considered as the birthplace of the ‘gamesmanship’ that has since been exported and is threatening the integrity of the game somewhat.
There is a big difference between bending the rules and breaking them. I do feel however that they have not been anywhere near in the same league as Portugal this WC for the cheatiest team award!
Here’s to a final played in the spirit of the greatest show on Earth!
No, I don’t mean MC Hammer at Wembley in '89.
PS - I think it’s fair to say it will affect them when Buffon and the like come to Arsenal for ?5 p/w rather than play in Serie C next season!
Fuck portugal and Fuck Italy. Come on france!
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
There is a big difference between bending the rules and breaking them.[/quote]
Not really. You either respect the rules or you don’t. In reality, the only difference in people’s minds between bending and breaking is what they perceive as the likelihood of getting punished.
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
hspder wrote:
A penalty kick is an extremely harsh punishment. Harsher than a red card, and, in high-stakes matches, usually only reserved for intentional fouls in clear goal situations.
Erm… That’s not quite the understanding I have of when a referee can award a penalty… Something to do with fouling in the area, no? [/quote]
Well, I’m pretty sure the police can fine people if they go 1 mph over the speed limit, and they do sometimes, but they usually choose not to, because they tend to reserve that for people that are going 10 mph or more over.
I’m also pretty sure that the few poor guys that DO get fined for going 1 mph over get pretty pissed off, even though, technically, the police was allowed to fine them.
[quote]hspder wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
hspder wrote:
A penalty kick is an extremely harsh punishment. Harsher than a red card, and, in high-stakes matches, usually only reserved for intentional fouls in clear goal situations.
Erm… That’s not quite the understanding I have of when a referee can award a penalty… Something to do with fouling in the area, no?
Well, I’m pretty sure the police can fine people if they go 1 mph over the speed limit, and they do sometimes, but they usually choose not to, because they tend to reserve that for people that are going 10 mph or more over.
I’m also pretty sure that the few poor guys that DO get fined for going 1 mph over get pretty pissed off, even though, technically, the police was allowed to fine them.
[/quote]
What other choice does a ref have when there is a foul in the area? Have I gotten my rules wrong?
[quote]hspder wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
There is a big difference between bending the rules and breaking them.
Not really. You either respect the rules or you don’t. In reality, the only difference in people’s minds between bending and breaking is what they perceive as the likelihood of getting punished.
[/quote]
To shed light on my distinction:
Bending them would be, for example, making sure the contact that sent you down was obvious. Breaking them would be going down where there was NO contact and clutching your head when you got love-tapped in the chest.
To be fair though I DO agree with you in that the game should be played in the spirit of sportsmanship but that seems to have long since left most professional sports. Therefore we either abandon them as spectators, or we say ‘that’s acceptable’ and ‘that’s not’. Sad, but true.
If you read my earlier posts I’ve ranted long enough about the cheating so I’ll shush now.
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
What other choice does a ref have when there is a foul in the area? Have I gotten my rules wrong?[/quote]
Most of the time, they simply let it go first time. If it happens twice, then it’s another story…
[quote]hspder wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
What other choice does a ref have when there is a foul in the area? Have I gotten my rules wrong?
Most of the time, they simply let it go first time. If it happens twice, then it’s another story…
[/quote]
Wow…I’ve got no idea what league you’re watching but over here a foul in the box is a penalty - unless it’s not a foul. Or unless the ref is blind. Or shite. Or unless it’s a dive. But if it’s a foul it’s a penalty.
I feel I’m being really dense here and am ignorant of my own sport but I thought those were the rules!
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
hspder wrote:
1-packlondoner wrote:
What other choice does a ref have when there is a foul in the area? Have I gotten my rules wrong?
Most of the time, they simply let it go first time. If it happens twice, then it’s another story…
Wow…I’ve got no idea what league you’re watching but over here a foul in the box is a penalty - unless it’s not a foul. Or unless the ref is blind. Or shite. Or unless it’s a dive. But if it’s a foul it’s a penalty.
I feel I’m being really dense here and am ignorant of my own sport but I thought those were the rules!
[/quote]
In practice, there are two sets of rules in relation to fouls in the box, one applying to open play and the other to set pieces. It is much easier to get away with a foul in the box from a corner or free kick.
That said, the question of intentionality does enter into the equation even in open play situations. Witness the controversy over the penalty in the Italy/Australia game.