Occupy Wall Street

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
162

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I don’t think this is exactly true. My generation has been brought up on antiquated logic - that is, if you have a degree, you will have good job opportunities. This may have been true in previous generations, but it’s not true now.[/quote]

But it isn’t antiquated, it’s still true. Our economy has the capacity to absorb college-educated workers, especially young ones (and, notably, their low health care costs). Employers just aren’t hiring and are instead choosing to set on a trillion dollars in case.

Have you asked why this is?

Well, you may be a bit presumptuous in terms of how far back in history “my generation” was - but that said, I don’t necssarily blame the kids, and I mentioned that from the outset. We’ve sold young people a false bill of goods, and that certainly isn’t their fault.

We’ve made college cheap and easy - you can borrow astronomical sums of money with no real skin in the game, and you can snooze through courses on your way to a diploma and come out credentialed, but not particularly educated. This was a mistake from the outset - and we created the wrong set of expectations by making a college education so easy, because now the same kids have the same expectations about their post-college careers.

In short, we’ve taught young people that you really don’t have to earn any of the benefits of a college education or any of the benefits that education is supposed to produce after graduation.

On top of that, we have devalued the skilled trades over time and basically taught young people that if you are a welder, for example, you are something less than a customer service specialist with a college degree.

All that said, I don’t blame young people for being somewhat angry, but common sense has to prevail - these were always pie-in-the-sky entitlements that could never be sustained, so young people have some accountability in this.

In any event, I’m not necessarily upset with young people for being mad - I just want them to be mad at the right people, and to channel this energy into actual productivity, not just a tantrum that you can post on Facebook.

163

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
In light of these “protests” and what is somewhat fair but clearly misdirected anger, I’d offer Madison’s words in Federalist #62. In discussing the importance of a Senate to provide some level of calm and order to legislating, government, etc., Madison explained the ills of arbitrary and unstable government:

[i]To trace the mischievous effects of a mutable government would fill a volume. I will hint a few only, each of which will be perceived to be a source of innumerable others.

In the first place, it forfeits the respect and confidence of other nations, and all the advantages connected with national character. An individual who is observed to be inconstant to his plans, or perhaps to carry on his affairs without any plan at all, is marked at once, by all prudent people, as a speedy victim to his own unsteadiness and folly. His more friendly neighbors may pity him, but all will decline to connect their fortunes with his; and not a few will seize the opportunity of making their fortunes out of his. One nation is to another what one individual is to another; with this melancholy distinction perhaps, that the former, with fewer of the benevolent emotions than the latter, are under fewer restraints also from taking undue advantage from the indiscretions of each other. Every nation, consequently, whose affairs betray a want of wisdom and stability, may calculate on every loss which can be sustained from the more systematic policy of their wiser neighbors. But the best instruction on this subject is unhappily conveyed to America by the example of her own situation. She finds that she is held in no respect by her friends; that she is the derision of her enemies; and that she is a prey to every nation which has an interest in speculating on her fluctuating councils and embarrassed affairs.

The internal effects of a mutable policy are still more calamitous. It poisons the blessing of liberty itself. It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is to-day, can guess what it will be to-morrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule, which is little known, and less fixed?

Another effect of public instability is the unreasonable advantage it gives to the sagacious, the enterprising, and the moneyed few over the industrious and uniformed mass of the people. Every new regulation concerning commerce or revenue, or in any way affecting the value of the different species of property, presents a new harvest to those who watch the change, and can trace its consequences; a harvest, reared not by themselves, but by the toils and cares of the great body of their fellow-citizens. This is a state of things in which it may be said with some truth that laws are made for the few, not for the many.

In another point of view, great injury results from an unstable government. The want of confidence in the public councils damps every useful undertaking, the success and profit of which may depend on a continuance of existing arrangements. What prudent merchant will hazard his fortunes in any new branch of commerce when he knows not but that his plans may be rendered unlawful before they can be executed? What farmer or manufacturer will lay himself out for the encouragement given to any particular cultivation or establishment, when he can have no assurance that his preparatory labors and advances will not render him a victim to an inconstant government? In a word, no great improvement or laudable enterprise can go forward which requires the auspices of a steady system of national policy.

But the most deplorable effect of all is that diminution of attachment and reverence which steals into the hearts of the people, towards a political system which betrays so many marks of infirmity, and disappoints so many of their flattering hopes. No government, any more than an individual, will long be respected without being truly respectable; nor be truly respectable, without possessing a certain portion of order and stability.[/i]

Take a keen look - if you wonder why businesses aren’t hiring, look no further than this explanation. What business-owner is going to hire new workers when the results of new Frank-Dodd legislation and ObamaCare still up in the air?

ObamaCare was (originally) passed with a punitive 1099 tax that would cripple small businesses - it was added for no other reason than to make the initial cost score more favorable (since it generates so much revenue) to make ObamaCare look like it didn’t add a trillion dollars to the deficit. You’re a small business owner about to get vaporized by this tax - why hire someone when you may not be able to afford them after you get blitzed?

What about the mass of regulations that are yet to come down - how much will they cost? You’re a business owner - - what reason do you have to take money and hire someone that you might very well have to fire when you realize the new regulations eat up their salary?

And note Madison’s other point - the perverse consequence of all this wild legislation (and its complicated and arbitrary regulatory schemes) is that is benefits the already wealthy, not the little guy.

Employers don’t owe anyone jobs - they will hire you if (1) there is work to do, and (2) you are the best candidate. Because of the uncertainty in the market, there’s no #1. And camping out in the financial district in Manhattan won’t change that in the slightest.
[/quote]

Well said.

164

Today, I joined a credit union being run by my alma mater. It has free checking and no monthly fees, with no minimum balance required. This is my way of saying ‘fuck you’ to banks.

I am not going to protest this shit, as it’s too catabolic, I will end up strangling some skinny-jean wearing emo hippy, and I am just too old for that shit.

165

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]WideGuy wrote:
The people who make the laws are bought and sold all day long by the elite wealthy people that are being protested.[/quote]

I agree which is why our political system needs to be completely revamped.

If I was in charge:

  1. I would make every single political office voluntary. Officials would get a check for cost of living and that’s it. The president wouldn’t get anything since he has a roof over his head and is fed, clothed, and taken everywhere he needs to go.

  2. Give officials a modest retirement program for their service, but certainly not pay them when their time is up.

  3. Term limits for every office. No career politicians.

These are just a few, but I truly believe just by eliminating career politicians, the two parties, and making holding office voluntary a large percentage of the problems in Washington COULD be fixed.

I mean how can Nancy Pelosi or John McCain, 2 career politician, really understand what a low/working/middle class American needs when they themselves are not any of these things.

My .02 cents
Chris [/quote]

I agree with your sentiment, politicians should not get to many perks or to high of a salary and to have a time limit on any elected office is a great idea.

Still I would say that it doesnt take care of corruption completly, aslong as you have a economical elite with more cash than a regular guy can even imagen, then lobbyism and the friendship beetwen government and big business will cary on. Because people generally will try to influence policy in their favor and thats completly okay, the problem starts when you have people who have much better ability than most folks to influence the government.
Basickly I am saying that a average guy cant have lobbyist working for him to influence the politicians, nor can he buy off politicians. So the playing field are asymetrical at its core and if thats not a democratic problem then I dont know what is. The only way for average people to join in at the game are through grasroot organisations and union( I know people here dont like unions, but they even the playing field for regular people ).

Thats how I see it, now I wait for the flaming to start.

166

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]WideGuy wrote:
The people who make the laws are bought and sold all day long by the elite wealthy people that are being protested.[/quote]

I agree which is why our political system needs to be completely revamped.

If I was in charge:

  1. I would make every single political office voluntary. Officials would get a check for cost of living and that’s it. The president wouldn’t get anything since he has a roof over his head and is fed, clothed, and taken everywhere he needs to go.

  2. Give officials a modest retirement program for their service, but certainly not pay them when their time is up.

  3. Term limits for every office. No career politicians.

These are just a few, but I truly believe just by eliminating career politicians, the two parties, and making holding office voluntary a large percentage of the problems in Washington COULD be fixed.

I mean how can Nancy Pelosi or John McCain, 2 career politician, really understand what a low/working/middle class American needs when they themselves are not any of these things.

My .02 cents
Chris [/quote]

I agree with your sentiment, politicians should not get to many perks or to high of a salary and to have a time limit on any elected office is a great idea.

Still I would say that it doesnt take care of corruption completly, aslong as you have a economical elite with more cash than a regular guy can even imagen, then lobbyism and the friendship beetwen government and big business will cary on. Because people generally will try to influence policy in their favor and thats completly okay, the problem starts when you have people who have much better ability than most folks to influence the government.
Basickly I am saying that a average guy cant have lobbyist working for him to influence the politicians, nor can he buy off politicians. So the playing field are asymetrical at its core and if thats not a democratic problem then I dont know what is. The only way for average people to join in at the game are through grasroot organisations and union( I know people here dont like unions, but they even the playing field for regular people ).

Thats how I see it, now I wait for the flaming to start.

[/quote]

I’ve got no problem with that. Corruption will always exist and we will always have to clean it up. There’s no doubt about it and I think Unions can and have been a good thing. Unions have also been very detrimental which is why we have to continually adjust these types of organizations and movements for the betterment of society.

Listen I ranted about Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid earlier, but at one time these programs were a good idea and were needed. IMO they are no longer needed and should be eliminated. Times change and so do needs. We have allowed out government to make adapting to changing times a very difficult if no impossible feat and that needs to change.

167

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]QuadasarusFlex wrote:
Im 23 yrs old,Im in college and I already feel like my life is over before it even began. Im faced with debts,unemployment,the looming housing market,and no possibility of having any hope for retirement. This is a problem caused by people that were too fucking greedy and thinking about themselves. I’m by no means asking for a handout,and I know alot of people that feel the same way,but I feel cheated out of opportunities that were handed to generations before mine. Older people might not understand,I don’t expect them too either,Baby Boomers are the ones that caused this whole mess and us (my generation) and our kids generations are going to pay for it. Yeah we’re fucking bitter and we are finally doing something about.[/quote]

Your 23 and worried about retirement. Open a Roth IRA and dump every available penny you can into it. It’ll add up. I’m not bitter and I’m only 25. If you are in such a bad place join the military like I did. Free housing and great experience. Plus they pay for college. This is a viable option for many people, but most don’t want to have to work that hard at such a young age.

You can blame the baby boomers all you want, but it wont fix anything. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at the people that make the laws. They are the ones that waste the majority of OUR money.

Medicare, medicaid, and Social Security are the three greatest drains on this nation and will destroy us if they are not fixed. You and I being in our mid 20’s don’t deserve social security, medicare, or medicaid and if I had my way we would pick a cut off age and then pay for it until the last person at the cut off date died and effectively ended the programs. I don’t want social security, but I’ll pay for other to receive it if that means this nation does devolve into a 3rd world country because our politicians are to stupid to fix the most pressing issue in our lives instead worrying about their elections.

Oh and the looming housing market…who said you deserve a house? That’s baby boomer talk.

Google IOUSA and watch it.

Chris
[/quote]

Yeah go join the most socialist program America has , the military . And that insurance program that all those old people paid for is now going to ruin the country, I am sorry this person is mentally challenged [/quote]

At least the military is an actual duty of the U.S. Government.

Really those old people paid for their insurance program. I’m pretty sure that isn’t how it works. I am paying for those old people’s insurance just like they paid for the previous generations insurance and so on since inception.

You also obviously did not read my post as I specifically said I am willing to pay for their insurance needs and not receive them myself. [/quote]

168

And people were afraid of the T-party? It’s time to hear all about the extremist tendencies of the Occupy Wall Street Crowd.

169

[quote]Sloth wrote:

And people were afraid of the T-party? It’s time to hear all about the extremist tendencies of the Occupy Wall Street Crowd. [/quote]

Yup tax the millionaires or we’ll kill them. What happens when the taxes on the rich don’t cover America’s unwavering need for more? Then we can tax the not so rich, but not so poor or kill them. This nation is gonna be awesome in a few decades. I can’t wait.

170

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]QuadasarusFlex wrote:
Im 23 yrs old,Im in college and I already feel like my life is over before it even began. Im faced with debts,unemployment,the looming housing market,and no possibility of having any hope for retirement. This is a problem caused by people that were too fucking greedy and thinking about themselves. I’m by no means asking for a handout,and I know alot of people that feel the same way,but I feel cheated out of opportunities that were handed to generations before mine. Older people might not understand,I don’t expect them too either,Baby Boomers are the ones that caused this whole mess and us (my generation) and our kids generations are going to pay for it. Yeah we’re fucking bitter and we are finally doing something about.[/quote]

Your 23 and worried about retirement. Open a Roth IRA and dump every available penny you can into it. It’ll add up. I’m not bitter and I’m only 25. If you are in such a bad place join the military like I did. Free housing and great experience. Plus they pay for college. This is a viable option for many people, but most don’t want to have to work that hard at such a young age.

You can blame the baby boomers all you want, but it wont fix anything. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at the people that make the laws. They are the ones that waste the majority of OUR money.

Medicare, medicaid, and Social Security are the three greatest drains on this nation and will destroy us if they are not fixed. You and I being in our mid 20’s don’t deserve social security, medicare, or medicaid and if I had my way we would pick a cut off age and then pay for it until the last person at the cut off date died and effectively ended the programs. I don’t want social security, but I’ll pay for other to receive it if that means this nation does devolve into a 3rd world country because our politicians are to stupid to fix the most pressing issue in our lives instead worrying about their elections.

Oh and the looming housing market…who said you deserve a house? That’s baby boomer talk.

Google IOUSA and watch it.

Chris
[/quote]

Yeah go join the most socialist program America has , the military . And that insurance program that all those old people paid for is now going to ruin the country, I am sorry this person is mentally challenged [/quote]

At least the military is an actual duty of the U.S. Government.

Really those old people paid for their insurance program. I’m pretty sure that isn’t how it works. I am paying for those old people’s insurance just like they paid for the previous generations insurance and so on since inception.

You also obviously did not read my post as I specifically said I am willing to pay for their insurance needs and not receive them myself. [/quote]
[/quote]

Did your Wikipedia link have a point?

171

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

And people were afraid of the T-party? It’s time to hear all about the extremist tendencies of the Occupy Wall Street Crowd. [/quote]

Yup tax the millionaires or we’ll kill them. What happens when the taxes on the rich don’t cover America’s unwavering need for more? Then we can tax the not so rich, but not so poor or kill them. This nation is gonna be awesome in a few decades. I can’t wait. [/quote]

What they don’t seem to get is that we could tax the rich 100%, and even if we could force them to stick around and keep producing, we’d still end up bankrupt. There aren’t enough ‘rich.’ Taxing the rich will become, taxing the rich and the middle-class. And eventually, even their inclusion won’t prevent the inevitable default. It’s the spending.

172

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

And people were afraid of the T-party? It’s time to hear all about the extremist tendencies of the Occupy Wall Street Crowd. [/quote]

Yup tax the millionaires or we’ll kill them. What happens when the taxes on the rich don’t cover America’s unwavering need for more? Then we can tax the not so rich, but not so poor or kill them. This nation is gonna be awesome in a few decades. I can’t wait. [/quote]

What they don’t seem to get is that we could tax the rich 100%, and even if we could force them to stick around and keep producing, we’d still end up bankrupt. There aren’t enough ‘rich.’ Taxing the rich will become, taxing the rich and the middle-class. And eventually, even their inclusion won’t prevent the inevitable default. It’s the spending.[/quote]

Yup…Without a doubt

173

640×553 48 KB

Until they start occupying like this young hobo nothing will change for the better. The ruling class won’t give a shit unless their lives are on the line.

174

[quote]Sloth wrote:

What they don’t seem to get is that we could tax the rich 100%, and even if we could force them to stick around and keep producing, we’d still end up bankrupt. There aren’t enough ‘rich.’ Taxing the rich will become, taxing the rich and the middle-class. And eventually, even their inclusion won’t prevent the inevitable default. It’s the spending.[/quote]

Not to mention that there are less ‘rich’ people to tax. The recession has effected everyone. And the so-called millionaires tax actually taxes those making over $250K? What kind of math is that? Obama-math.

175

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

What they don’t seem to get is that we could tax the rich 100%, and even if we could force them to stick around and keep producing, we’d still end up bankrupt. There aren’t enough ‘rich.’ Taxing the rich will become, taxing the rich and the middle-class. And eventually, even their inclusion won’t prevent the inevitable default. It’s the spending.[/quote]

Not to mention that there are less ‘rich’ people to tax. The recession has effected everyone. And the so-called millionaires tax actually taxes those making over $250K? What kind of math is that? Obama-math.
[/quote]

Actually, the text of the proposed bill eliminates deductions for singles or couples making $125k or more. THAT’s your Obama-defined millionaire.

176

This is what Reggie Watts has to say about it

177

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]QuadasarusFlex wrote:
Im 23 yrs old,Im in college and I already feel like my life is over before it even began. Im faced with debts,unemployment,the looming housing market,and no possibility of having any hope for retirement. This is a problem caused by people that were too fucking greedy and thinking about themselves. I’m by no means asking for a handout,and I know alot of people that feel the same way,but I feel cheated out of opportunities that were handed to generations before mine. Older people might not understand,I don’t expect them too either,Baby Boomers are the ones that caused this whole mess and us (my generation) and our kids generations are going to pay for it. Yeah we’re fucking bitter and we are finally doing something about.[/quote]

Your 23 and worried about retirement. Open a Roth IRA and dump every available penny you can into it. It’ll add up. I’m not bitter and I’m only 25. If you are in such a bad place join the military like I did. Free housing and great experience. Plus they pay for college. This is a viable option for many people, but most don’t want to have to work that hard at such a young age.

You can blame the baby boomers all you want, but it wont fix anything. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at the people that make the laws. They are the ones that waste the majority of OUR money.

Medicare, medicaid, and Social Security are the three greatest drains on this nation and will destroy us if they are not fixed. You and I being in our mid 20’s don’t deserve social security, medicare, or medicaid and if I had my way we would pick a cut off age and then pay for it until the last person at the cut off date died and effectively ended the programs. I don’t want social security, but I’ll pay for other to receive it if that means this nation does devolve into a 3rd world country because our politicians are to stupid to fix the most pressing issue in our lives instead worrying about their elections.

Oh and the looming housing market…who said you deserve a house? That’s baby boomer talk.

Google IOUSA and watch it.

Chris
[/quote]

Yeah go join the most socialist program America has , the military . And that insurance program that all those old people paid for is now going to ruin the country, I am sorry this person is mentally challenged [/quote]

At least the military is an actual duty of the U.S. Government.

Really those old people paid for their insurance program. I’m pretty sure that isn’t how it works. I am paying for those old people’s insurance just like they paid for the previous generations insurance and so on since inception.

You also obviously did not read my post as I specifically said I am willing to pay for their insurance needs and not receive them myself. [/quote]
[/quote]

Did your Wikipedia link have a point? [/quote]

That Social Security is a social insurance program .

178

[quote]ephrem wrote:
This is what Reggie Watts has to say about it

That’s 4 minutes and 38 seconds of my life I’ll never get back.

179

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]QuadasarusFlex wrote:
Im 23 yrs old,Im in college and I already feel like my life is over before it even began. Im faced with debts,unemployment,the looming housing market,and no possibility of having any hope for retirement. This is a problem caused by people that were too fucking greedy and thinking about themselves. I’m by no means asking for a handout,and I know alot of people that feel the same way,but I feel cheated out of opportunities that were handed to generations before mine. Older people might not understand,I don’t expect them too either,Baby Boomers are the ones that caused this whole mess and us (my generation) and our kids generations are going to pay for it. Yeah we’re fucking bitter and we are finally doing something about.[/quote]

Your 23 and worried about retirement. Open a Roth IRA and dump every available penny you can into it. It’ll add up. I’m not bitter and I’m only 25. If you are in such a bad place join the military like I did. Free housing and great experience. Plus they pay for college. This is a viable option for many people, but most don’t want to have to work that hard at such a young age.

You can blame the baby boomers all you want, but it wont fix anything. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at the people that make the laws. They are the ones that waste the majority of OUR money.

Medicare, medicaid, and Social Security are the three greatest drains on this nation and will destroy us if they are not fixed. You and I being in our mid 20’s don’t deserve social security, medicare, or medicaid and if I had my way we would pick a cut off age and then pay for it until the last person at the cut off date died and effectively ended the programs. I don’t want social security, but I’ll pay for other to receive it if that means this nation does devolve into a 3rd world country because our politicians are to stupid to fix the most pressing issue in our lives instead worrying about their elections.

Oh and the looming housing market…who said you deserve a house? That’s baby boomer talk.

Google IOUSA and watch it.

Chris
[/quote]

Yeah go join the most socialist program America has , the military . And that insurance program that all those old people paid for is now going to ruin the country, I am sorry this person is mentally challenged [/quote]

At least the military is an actual duty of the U.S. Government.

Really those old people paid for their insurance program. I’m pretty sure that isn’t how it works. I am paying for those old people’s insurance just like they paid for the previous generations insurance and so on since inception.

You also obviously did not read my post as I specifically said I am willing to pay for their insurance needs and not receive them myself. [/quote]
[/quote]

Did your Wikipedia link have a point? [/quote]

That Social Security is a social insurance program .[/quote]

Okay, but if it was actually used just as “insurance” not everyone would use it and it wouldn’t be bankrupt.

It; however, is not used as insurance. It is instead used as a retirement program and as I said we should eliminate it. Even if I have to pay for social security for the next 30 years and never receive it I would want to see the social security program ended.

180

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
This is what Reggie Watts has to say about it[/quote]

That’s 4 minutes and 38 seconds of my life I’ll never get back.[/quote]

What? It was educational. It was a fuck shit stack. What else did you expect, lol.

181

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
â??in 1960, only 20 percent of mothers worked. Today, 70 percent of American children live in households where all adults are employed.â??

“In the U.S., 85.8 percent of males and 66.5 percent of females work more than 40 hours per week.”

"According to the ILO, â??Americans work 137 more hours per year than Japanese workers, 260 more hours per year than British workers, and 499 more hours per year than French workers.â??

There’s more stats like this out there – clearly, the answer is that americans just aren’t working hard enough, right?[/quote]

You know what else households have now that they didn’t have in years past? Home computers, dishwashers, plasma TV’s, 2+ cars per household, playstations, microwaves, multiple cell phones, satellite TV, iPods, DVD players, etc, etc. So please spare me the comparisons to the wonderful days of yesteryear.

As far as the comparisons to other countries, I’m not sure where you’re going with that. Even “poor” Americans live in the lap of luxury, materially, compared to other countries.

[quote]Oh oh oh, no, I get it, what they SHOULD do is go to school and get educated so they can get BETTER JOBS (since its their own fault for settling for a shitty job). But you know what that means? Student - fucking - loans.

Which, of course, when they’re with college and drowning in student loan debt, will be their own stupid fault for having.

So, you work a shitty job, and its your fault. Or, you take out loans to go to school, and if there isn’t work in your field when you get out, its your fault.

Lets ignore the bankers and government who are responsible for the shitty economy. Blame the workers for “not working hard enough”.[/quote]

So the only way to get through college is taking on a ridiculous amount of student loans? That’s bullshit and you know it. There are countless ways to get through school without taking on incredible debt. Now I will admit, when student loans are handed out like Halloween candy, I can’t really blame the masses of mostly immature kids for taking them and not thinking about their future. But that’s not Wall Street’s dealings, is it?

[quote]Let me ask you something, mal. You have kids, right? Even if not, just pretend for a second. You have kids, they go to school. In a particular class, one or two kids complains about the homework, doesn’t work hard in class, and they fail. The answer to that is simple - they should have worked harder. Or, maybe they just didn’t understand the material and need a remedial class.

But what about if 3/4ths of the class is overwhelmed by the workload? Or is failing because they don’t understand the material? At what point can you reasonably say “Ok, maybe the problem isn’t with the kids, its with the teacher or the curriculum”?

How many Americans need to be unemployed/underemployed, uninsured/underinsured, homeless, relying on friends/relatives, etc, before you say “Ok, maybe the problem isn’t the individuals, but the economy and those responsible for damaging it”?[/quote]

I don’t mind the analogy, but it won’t get us anywhere since I’m sure we disagree on who’s responsible for damaging it. And if we agreed it was primarily Wall Street, what good is a mostly aimless protest going to do?