[/quote]ephrem wrote:
#OWS is being evicted. Haven’t you seen it on the news?
edit: Police break up New York ‘Occupy’ camp | News | Al Jazeera [/quote]
I hope 100 smelly hipsters #occupyuourgarage and see how long it takes you to call the cops.
They are on private property…you dig?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Shit’s going down. So much for America, land of the free.[/quote]
It is the land of the free, until you forfeit your rights…
1st amendment “…or the right of the people peaceably to assemble…”
They stopped being peaceful a while ago…and one could argue that being peaceful also includes following laws…something that they stopped doing the first night they slept in the park.
They lost their rights when they stopped being peaceful and broke laws.
[quote]benos4752 wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Shit’s going down. So much for America, land of the free.[/quote]
It is the land of the free, until you forfeit your rights…
1st amendment “…or the right of the people peaceably to assemble…”
They stopped being peaceful a while ago…and one could argue that being peaceful also includes following laws…something that they stopped doing the first night they slept in the park.
They lost their rights when they stopped being peaceful and broke laws.[/quote]
Quit making sense…right this INSTANT!
It’s also not their property. Any sympathizers want to invite them all to cram together, setting up tents in your yard? Pissing on your petunias?
The #Occupy protests are a result of endemic and systemic problems that exist in the USA and for some reason many posters in this thread are unwilling to acknowledge those problems exist.
Why?
Ephrem, I don’t think anyone is denying that big problems exist. Instead of protesting, they need to start using their heads to intelligently address the issues. Research potential candidates for congress and the presidency and then vote for the right people.
I don’t think much will change, however, because a majority of voters are just plain uneducated. Most people will just vote for who they find appealing on tv. It’s all done by design. I really have very little hope for our future, to be honest.
You don’t think the US needs a system overhaul?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The #Occupy protests are a result of endemic and systemic problems that exist in the USA and for some reason many posters in this thread are unwilling to acknowledge those problems exist.
Why?[/quote]
Because they misdiagnose them and would make them worse.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
Ephrem, I don’t think anyone is denying that big problems exist. Instead of protesting, they need to start using their heads to intelligently address the issues. Research potential candidates for congress and the presidency and then vote for the right people. I don’t think much will change, however, because a majority of voters are just plain uneducated. Most people will just vote for who they find appealing on tv. It’s all done by design. I really have very little hope for our future, to be honest. [/quote]
This is a version of “if only we could vote the right people in”.
This is a fallacy. the way you need to work this is a system. Let people vote with their feet, i.e. make decisions as far down below as possible, if possible by the individual.
As long as there are people who try to micromanage everything from Washington you would need omniscient saints to make it work and they seem to be in rather short supply and totally uninterested in running your life for you.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The #Occupy protests are a result of endemic and systemic problems that exist in the USA and for some reason many posters in this thread are unwilling to acknowledge those problems exist.
Why?[/quote]
Because they misdiagnose them and would make them worse.
[/quote]
Who is “they”? The #Occupy protesters?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The #Occupy protests are a result of endemic and systemic problems that exist in the USA and for some reason many posters in this thread are unwilling to acknowledge those problems exist.
Why?[/quote]
Because they misdiagnose them and would make them worse.
[/quote]
Who is “they”? The #Occupy protesters?
[/quote]
Yes.
They dont want Wallstreet to stop robbing them, they want part of the loot.
Ephrem, I don’t think the system itself is flawed. I think at its core, our constitution is very sound, intelligently thought out, and was supposed to safe guard against the abuses that are prevalent today. Letting it go on unchecked for so long is how we arrived at our present state of dismal affairs.
Orion, as I understand it, that is the way its supposed to be. The states are supposed to essentially govern themselves with little interference from the federal government. People have to vote with their feet at the state and federal level. I believe its entirely an issue of voting for the right people. Unfortunately, the deck is so stacked against every possible candidate that could do good things and help restore our system to the way it should be. For example, Ron Paul seems like he would be the logical choice to try and fix this broken system. But the powers that be will do everything to make sure it does not happen. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he died before next November. It scares the shit out of me when all if the gop candidates are talking about attacking Iran and Ron Paul is the only one opposes it, yet he is ridiculed for his stance on the issue. Are we not in massive debt already engaged in two other unofficially declared wars?
Since the federal reserve was instituted, the dollar has lost 95% of its value. Ron Paul is very adamant about auditing or flat out abolishing this institution which has played a major role in the devaluation of our dollar. Yet he is called a kook or a nut or racist. The only kooks to me are the ones calling for another military conflict which WILL undoubtedly raise the price of oil. I think I got a little off topic but I hope most of this rambling made sense.
And on the local front: 5 arrested in Occupy Pittsburgh protest identified
This, I do not understand. For people complaining about the economy and foreign wars, you would think shale gas and domestic oil would be anything but a boondoggle to liberals and conservatives alike in this country.
This provides A: high paying jobs for blue collar and white collar alike B: tax revenue increases that can benefit local social programs and public education C: energy independence from foreign, unstable sources that would affect US foreign policy.
The alternative? High energy prices…decreasing middle class purchasing power and grinding the economy to a halt, reliance on inefficient sources of “green energy” such as ethanol which will over-utilize water and drive up food prices considerably, wasted spending such as Solyndra.
This is why I do not understand these protesters. Take ECON 101 and go to washington. The concerns about safe drinking water can be easily mitigated by slight changes to enforcement and property rights. Hell, if they knew anything about geology, they would understand these wells and extraction points in formations are WELL BELOW the water table.
FYI, I spent most of yesterday morning and early afternoon in and around Zuccotti Park, the court house, and the protests/waiting around (after everyone got evicted from the park the night before, the protesters were generally around the area and but then organized a marching protest up and down Broadway to complain about the eviction).
I actually walked in part of the protest. I talked to a fair number of the protesters. I don’t have time to go into detail, but I hope to provide my observations later tonight.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The #Occupy protests are a result of endemic and systemic problems that exist in the USA and for some reason many posters in this thread are unwilling to acknowledge those problems exist.
Why?[/quote]
Because they are protesting in the wrong place…they need to occupy Washington D.C.
Do you really think that any change will occur without laws mandating it?
Obama’s biggest donors were large corporations…maybe they should occupy Obama.
See the difference?
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The #Occupy protests are a result of endemic and systemic problems that exist in the USA and for some reason many posters in this thread are unwilling to acknowledge those problems exist.
Why?[/quote]
Because they are protesting in the wrong place…they need to occupy Washington D.C.
Do you really think that any change will occur without laws mandating it?
Obama’s biggest donors were large corporations…maybe they should occupy Obama.
See the difference?[/quote]
Shhh don’t try to explain to the useful idiots they just care about bread and circus, it’s like the Flea Partier video in the first few pages he tries to sound intelligent by saying Solyndra isn’t important but that company bundled money for Obama when he was campaigning as a result his administration forced us to give them a loan even though it was a real bad idea and when asked about it Obama pretty much said “Bush’s fault”, as Holder is trying to say in relation to Operation Fast and Furious
[quote]ephrem wrote:
You don’t think the US needs a system overhaul?
[/quote]
Over haul to what? You need an end to have a mean? There is something wrong with everything. There are always tweaks and adjustments needed, but a complete overhaul is not. The people screaming for fairness are really wanting fairness, they want something for nothing. They want free money. They is an inequality to those of us who have to work for it. Education, working hard, doing the right things, are not new concepts. Do I think corporations are greedy sure, not all but some certainly are. You aren’t going to fix greed by taking their shit…You do that they either quit or leave and hence a lot more people then get screwed.
I myself can be waaay richer. I can do it in short order. But do that I have to travel much more. And that takes me away from my family and to me that’s not worth it. See, that’s my choice. I am not owed more money because I feel an obligation to my family.
As long as companies pay competitive wages and treat employee fairly I have no issue.
I do have issues with coperate mucks getting big pay outs even in the face of losses or lay-offs. But an over haul is not necessary to fix that.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The #Occupy protests are a result of endemic and systemic problems that exist in the USA and for some reason many posters in this thread are unwilling to acknowledge those problems exist.
Why?[/quote]
Because they are protesting in the wrong place…they need to occupy Washington D.C.
Do you really think that any change will occur without laws mandating it?
Obama’s biggest donors were large corporations…maybe they should occupy Obama.
See the difference?[/quote]
And obama subsequently paid them back, see stimulus.
[quote]kevinm1 wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The #Occupy protests are a result of endemic and systemic problems that exist in the USA and for some reason many posters in this thread are unwilling to acknowledge those problems exist.
Why?[/quote]
Because they are protesting in the wrong place…they need to occupy Washington D.C.
Do you really think that any change will occur without laws mandating it?
Obama’s biggest donors were large corporations…maybe they should occupy Obama.
See the difference?[/quote]
Shhh don’t try to explain to the useful idiots they just care about bread and circus, it’s like the Flea Partier video in the first few pages he tries to sound intelligent by saying Solyndra isn’t important but that company bundled money for Obama when he was campaigning as a result his administration forced us to give them a loan even though it was a real bad idea and when asked about it Obama pretty much said “Bush’s fault”, as Holder is trying to say in relation to Operation Fast and Furious[/quote]
If Solyndra and the Fast and Furious debacle had happened to a GOP president…it would be playing on a non-stop loop on all of the major networks. With this administration it gets a YAWN.
Seriously #Occupy people, why not occupy the White House?? Would that be admitting that Obama is wrong?
I need an explanation.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]kevinm1 wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The #Occupy protests are a result of endemic and systemic problems that exist in the USA and for some reason many posters in this thread are unwilling to acknowledge those problems exist.
Why?[/quote]
Because they are protesting in the wrong place…they need to occupy Washington D.C.
Do you really think that any change will occur without laws mandating it?
Obama’s biggest donors were large corporations…maybe they should occupy Obama.
See the difference?[/quote]
Shhh don’t try to explain to the useful idiots they just care about bread and circus, it’s like the Flea Partier video in the first few pages he tries to sound intelligent by saying Solyndra isn’t important but that company bundled money for Obama when he was campaigning as a result his administration forced us to give them a loan even though it was a real bad idea and when asked about it Obama pretty much said “Bush’s fault”, as Holder is trying to say in relation to Operation Fast and Furious[/quote]
If Solyndra and the Fast and Furious debacle had happened to a GOP president…it would be playing on a non-stop loop on all of the major networks. With this administration it gets a YAWN.
Seriously #Occupy people, why not occupy the White House?? Would that be admitting that Obama is wrong?
I need an explanation.[/quote]
It’s just the way it is look at Bush’s firing of the AG’s huge frontpage stories, everyone all upset, even though the AG’s only has a job because the President allows it. What people forget is Clinton fired all his AG’s during his second term.
Off topic but a funny thing to do is watch documentaries on 60’s hippies, and the civil rights movements, you always see speeches by Nixon even though he only was sworn in as President in '69. I have a weird conspiracy laced theory about 60’s radicals infultrating main stream society and basically changing history.