[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Its funny, tbolt - you and a few other posters on here keep harping about the OWS crowd not wanting to “take responsibility”, etc.
Who’s responsible for the state of the economy - the OWS generation, or their parents? Who was running Wall Street, and the corporations, and the housing market, and the government? College kids?
The point of the “lost the money at a casino” part of my analogy, btw, was that your generation is as responsible for the state of the economy as someone would be if they went to a casino and gambled money away. It wasn’t that the money lost was “gambled”, but a comment on who is responsible.[/quote]
Don’t occupy wall street then…occupy the FUCKING WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS…they are the one’s you need to throw stones at.
Right. And what would happen if all the kids going to college got “degrees that paid”?
Hint: those markets would be oversaturated with people with degrees in the field.
Damn. Guess the hint kinda gave it away. [/quote]
Well, demand would be supplied in those areas, and it would reduce the glut in the other areas, so there’d be fewer unemployed cinematographers or whatever.
And, in the other degrees (especially engineering), people often go on to “create” their own jobs by starting their own outfits. The labor market for such careers are not static - as in, there isn’t simply X number of jobs available in hopes that X number of college graduates fill them. It’s more fluid than that. I know some guys who just started an engineering firm themselves, and they effectively “hired” themselves. Now, they are hiring others too - a good thing.
But, the point is, it’s a little foolish to whine about not having a job when you are choosing a job path that doesn’t provide many opportunities due to limited demand for your services. Just because you want to grow up to be cinematographer doesn’t mean you automatically get to…
Are you suggesting the housing crash was inevitable? Unavoidable? How about the bailouts, AIG, TARP, etc?
The older generation could have made good on that “promise” by, um, not fucking up the economy and demanding everything for themselves. They could support reform of SS/Medicaid/Medicare, even if that means less gets “earmarked” for them.
This economy wasn’t fucked up by kids in college. [/quote]
I think I get it now - you have really no idea what caused the credit meltdown, do you?
You keep saying “the older generation”, as if it was some conspiracy by the Elders to hoover up all the money.
Well, it wasn’t. It was done by older people, all right, but not on account of their age. It was done by a complex web of “do-gooder” policies - in other words, not greedy, mustache-twirling policies designed to screw everybody else. The policies - “affordable housing”, artificially-low interest rates - were done to be “helpful”, and we got hammered by the unintended consequences of otherwise beneficent (by design, at least) policy.
Yes, people got rich off of them - frankly, it’s easy to get rich off of high-yield debt that the government promises to back the credit risk of.
Was all this avoidable? Certainly. But let me ask you - do you think we should have never enacted the “affordable housing” policies in the first place? I’m ok with that hindsight approach - are you?
But get educated on what really happened. Just screaming about “old people” doesn’t accomplish anything and it indicates that you don’t quite know who to blame.
Its funny, tbolt - you and a few other posters on here keep harping about the OWS crowd not wanting to “take responsibility”, etc.
Who’s responsible for the state of the economy - the OWS generation, or their parents? Who was running Wall Street, and the corporations, and the housing market, and the government? College kids?
The point of the “lost the money at a casino” part of my analogy, btw, was that your generation is as responsible for the state of the economy as someone would be if they went to a casino and gambled money away. It wasn’t that the money lost was “gambled”, but a comment on who is responsible.[/quote]
I’ll zero in to one peculiar aspect to this: my generation was responsible for the state of the economy? Which generation is that, exactly?
Its funny, tbolt - you and a few other posters on here keep harping about the OWS crowd not wanting to “take responsibility”, etc.
Who’s responsible for the state of the economy - the OWS generation, or their parents? Who was running Wall Street, and the corporations, and the housing market, and the government? College kids?
The point of the “lost the money at a casino” part of my analogy, btw, was that your generation is as responsible for the state of the economy as someone would be if they went to a casino and gambled money away. It wasn’t that the money lost was “gambled”, but a comment on who is responsible.[/quote]
I’ll zero in to one peculiar aspect to this: my generation was responsible for the state of the economy? Which generation is that, exactly?
[/quote]
There’s nothing wrong with older people getting rich by gaming a doomed system and leaving the younger generation to clean up the mess?
Fer real?[/quote]
If you’re talking about entitlements like Social Security and Medicare, then you’re making some sense. But you were talking specifically about the economic meltdown, housing bubble burts, etc.
How did old people “game” the “affordable housing” policies in place that caused the crisis? The government wanted old people (any people) to make as much money off the housing phenomenon as possible. So, how exactly are “old people” the villains in this particular crisis? By doing what the government policy asked them to do?
Get married, have kids, stay together. Fewer young folks raised in intact homes has led to an increasingly underrepresented group of young taxpayers.
Get a degree in STEM, or understand you might graduate with debt and fewer, to no, prospects. Heck, cut the student loan program. Target it to critical majors, only. Or, forget college and work honorable jobs such as electricians, plumbers, welders, and etc. Agitate for quicker approval of oil, clean coal, and natural gas projects. Lots of jobs there.
Keep in mind that the more complicated the tax and regulatory systems are, the less likely those non-corporate average Joes will set up their own businesses in the first place. Compliance is costly. And, you’ll be more likely to attract more jobs from overseas, instead of shipping jobs out. If you want to decentralize wealth and capital, make it stupidly easy and cheap to start up.
And why tax manufactures at all, if we’re losing manufacturing jobs? I’d rather get no revenues from them, keep those jobs here, attract more of those jobs, and let self-reliant people work them. It’s that or pay them to watch soap operas and have fatherless children.
There’s nothing wrong with older people getting rich by gaming a doomed system and leaving the younger generation to clean up the mess?
Fer real?[/quote]
If you’re talking about entitlements like Social Security and Medicare, then you’re making some sense. But you were talking specifically about the economic meltdown, housing bubble burts, etc.
How did old people “game” the “affordable housing” policies in place that caused the crisis? The government wanted old people (any people) to make as much money off the housing phenomenon as possible. So, how exactly are “old people” the villains in this particular crisis? By doing what the government policy asked them to do?[/quote]
Who was that government who set the policies? Old people or young?
Who should have seen the problems coming, and acted responsibly?
Face it - if you want to blame the government, you’re blaming older people.
You want to blame the corporations? Older people.
You want to blame the 1%? Older people
You want to blame the people who got rich off the things that caused our economic crisis? Older people.
The situation that young people are entering into was created entirely by older people. Yet the answer, clearly, is to slam the younger generation for “entitlement” - yet social security, medicare, medicade (read: entitlement programs) make up, what, 40% of the budget?
Who was that government who set the policies? Old people or young?[/quote]
Old? A mix of young and old? So what? What does their age have to do with it? How did age influence them into making these bad policies?
Instead of the age being the issue, why wouldn’t it be political ideology? If these policies were bad ideas, they were the product of bad ideas and wrong assumptions, not old people protecting old people’s interests. Trying to pin bad “affordable housing” policies on “old people” is just ridiculous.
Those who have a good sense of economics and are realistic about human nature - so anyone with these qualities, regardless of age?
You simply have no idea what caused this economic mess, do you?
The fantasy of us all becoming a higher-educated country of supervisors, researchers, doctors, engineers, and executives–superior in hierarchy and wealth than our labor force overseas–is coming to an end. The blue-collar, middle-class folks will continue to be significant. Better make sure those jobs are here. And, that they can support a family.
Focus on math, science, and western civilization in high school. Get our schools back on mission. For most, this should be enough. For those showing particular promise with respect to in-demand majors in STEM, fine, offer them financial aid. Otherwise endowments, scholarships, and good old-fashioned work-your-way-through-college will have to suffice.
Who was that government who set the policies? Old people or young?[/quote]
Old? A mix of young and old? So what? What does their age have to do with it? How did age influence them into making these bad policies?
[/quote]
The reason age matters is because the older generation is the one who was in the drivers seat during all this. It was the older people who set the policies - because younger people were still in college. They weren’t running the government or the corporations or deciding who to bail out.
And now that those policies have caused huge problems, they’re entering into an abysmal job market, ruined economy, with only more problems on the horizon – and you want to blame them for it.
Wait, who installed the bad “affordable housing” policies? It was older people - but trying to pin the consequences of the policies that older people put in place on younger people is fair?
It doesn’t matter if it was “to protect old people’s interests” or “a conspiracy of the elders” - regardless of what they intended, the older generation should have seen it coming and acted accordingly. Instead, many of them just “happened” to make a ton of money… funny, isn’t it?
[quote]
Those who have a good sense of economics and are realistic about human nature - so anyone with these qualities, regardless of age?
You simply have no idea what caused this economic mess, do you?[/quote]
So the college kids with “a good sense of economics” who were “realistic about human nature” should have seen the problems on the horizon, and changed course? How? Kids in college aren’t running corporations, holding government office, etc.
The younger generation wasn’t in any kind of position to do anything about it.
Who was that government who set the policies? Old people or young?[/quote]
Old? A mix of young and old? So what? What does their age have to do with it? How did age influence them into making these bad policies?
[/quote]
The reason age matters is because the older generation is the one who was in the drivers seat during all this. It was the older people who set the policies - because younger people were still in college. They weren’t running the government or the corporations or deciding who to bail out.
And now that those policies have caused huge problems, they’re entering into an abysmal job market, ruined economy, with only more problems on the horizon – and you want to blame them for it.
Wait, who installed the bad “affordable housing” policies? It was older people - but trying to pin the consequences of the policies that older people put in place on younger people is fair?
It doesn’t matter if it was “to protect old people’s interests” or “a conspiracy of the elders” - regardless of what they intended, the older generation should have seen it coming and acted accordingly. Instead, many of them just “happened” to make a ton of money… funny, isn’t it?
[quote]
Those who have a good sense of economics and are realistic about human nature - so anyone with these qualities, regardless of age?
You simply have no idea what caused this economic mess, do you?[/quote]
So the college kids with “a good sense of economics” who were “realistic about human nature” should have seen the problems on the horizon, and changed course? How? Kids in college aren’t running corporations, holding government office, etc.
The younger generation wasn’t in any kind of position to do anything about it.[/quote]
The younger OWS crowd would only make it worse. They’d bankrupt the nation on more freebies and progressive fantasies. Your concerns are more Pat Buchanan paleo-conservative than they are OWS.
The reason age matters is because the older generation is the one who was in the drivers seat during all this. It was the older people who set the policies - because younger people were still in college. They weren’t running the government or the corporations or deciding who to bail out.
And now that those policies have caused huge problems, they’re entering into an abysmal job market, ruined economy, with only more problems on the horizon – and you want to blame them for it.[/quote]
No, it doesn’t. You’re confusing cause with correlation. Tell me why age matters at all here - what was the motivation of the “old people” to enact these policies so that “old people’s interests” would be protected to the exclusion of young people’s? Just because “old people” did it doesn’t meant that their age was the driver of the bad policies.
You haven’t said. Can you?
Another dodge. Answer the question - since what we are talking about are bad ideas, why is the issue one of political ideology, and not age?
Answer it.
Nope, because you are pinning the blame on people on account of being “old”. Their age is irrelevant (as it pertains to the economic meltdown).
Well, they also are bad candidates to have a good sense of economics and realistic views on human nature, but setting that aside, I never said that “kids” should have seen this coming.
I am saying that people with those qualities regardless of age should have and could have seen it coming. Again, my point is age is irrelevant.
Again, you simply have no idea what caused this economic mess, do you?