Occupy Wall Street

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
785

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
"But at some point between my grandfather’s time and now, getting your hands dirty became something to be ashamed of. My generation perpetuated that. We made it socially unacceptable to:

A) Do any job that requires sweat and/or a uniform.

B) Work 70-hour weeks to get ahead.

So if you don’t do either of those things, what’s left? Getting an education and waiting for a good job in your field. But now, when we catch you doing that, we mock you and tell you to go flip burgers. And that’s bullshit. We told you your whole lives that those jobs were for idiots and failures. You think you’re too good for those jobs because that’s what we’ve been fucking telling you since birth."

[/quote]

The problem I have with this is that no one I know ever told me that flipping burgers was for idiots and failures. They told me that people who don’t go to school and spend their whole careers flipping burgers are idiots and failures. There is nothing wrong with flipping burgers or moving furniture or whatever while waiting for a career in your field…the people who sit on their asses and wait and are just as big of idiots, in my mind, as the high school dropout still flipping burgers at 45.

One thing I will agree with though, this, “A) Do any job that requires sweat and/or a uniform.”, does need to change. There is nothing wrong with getting your hands dirty. A good plumber can make close to 100k a year (given things like local competition and what not). But that guy will still be looked down on by the secretary making 45k a year because “I have a degree.” That does need to change.

786

[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:

  1. the bill of rights of the U.S. Constitution - as actually written - is a series of limits on the powers of the legislative branch of the U.S. gov (“Congress shall make no law…” etc.); state and local govs can have the legitimate power to regulate and limit ownership of firearms. (Actually, the federal system is divide and conquer; one country should have one gov. I’m just describing the system of gov we OFFICIALLY have now.)[/quote]

No, you aren’t. You should have kept reading down to the 14th Amendment.

787

[quote]benos4752 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
"But at some point between my grandfather’s time and now, getting your hands dirty became something to be ashamed of. My generation perpetuated that. We made it socially unacceptable to:

A) Do any job that requires sweat and/or a uniform.

B) Work 70-hour weeks to get ahead.

So if you don’t do either of those things, what’s left? Getting an education and waiting for a good job in your field. But now, when we catch you doing that, we mock you and tell you to go flip burgers. And that’s bullshit. We told you your whole lives that those jobs were for idiots and failures. You think you’re too good for those jobs because that’s what we’ve been fucking telling you since birth."

[/quote]

The problem I have with this is that no one I know ever told me that flipping burgers was for idiots and failures. They told me that people who don’t go to school and spend their whole careers flipping burgers are idiots and failures. There is nothing wrong with flipping burgers or moving furniture or whatever while waiting for a career in your field…the people who sit on their asses and wait and are just as big of idiots, in my mind, as the high school dropout still flipping burgers at 45.

One thing I will agree with though, this, “A) Do any job that requires sweat and/or a uniform.”, does need to change. There is nothing wrong with getting your hands dirty. A good plumber can make close to 100k a year (given things like local competition and what not). But that guy will still be looked down on by the secretary making 45k a year because “I have a degree.” That does need to change.[/quote]

I chose a career in retail sales, I enjoy the hours(non traditional 9-5) and I get compensated fairly well. I love when people come in and look down at me because I work behind a counter. I make a pretty decent living(less so in the last year or so), I make more than my sister who has a degree, and slightly less than her husband who does HVAC. Also I get at least 3-4 job offers a week from headhunters decent jobs that the 99%'s claim they want, and do you know why I get these calls? I worked while since the day I could have a job and I flipped burgers, folded sweaters, did secondary ops in a machine shop, mopped floors, and pretty much anything else I could to make a few dollars.

788

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Regarding the traffic incident and allegations of hit and run, MPD is investigating and is seeking any evidence and witness statements. Anyone with information should contact police by calling (202) 727-9099 or 1-888-919-CRIME (1-888-919-2746)."

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/dc-police-chief-trashes-occupydc#.TrvqyJBjhEs.twitter
[/quote]
There should be plenty of evidence these guys are always filming everywhere. Also not to paraphrase Chris Rock, I’m not saying I would have ran them over…but I understand.

789

[quote]benos4752 wrote:

One thing I will agree with though, this, “A) Do any job that requires sweat and/or a uniform.”, does need to change. There is nothing wrong with getting your hands dirty. A good plumber can make close to 100k a year (given things like local competition and what not). But that guy will still be looked down on by the secretary making 45k a year because “I have a degree.” That does need to change.[/quote]

Agreed.

790

[quote]benos4752 wrote:
I think Sloth was the one to predict this was going to happen?

Tuberculosis Breaks Out At Occupy Atlanta?s Base « CBS Atlanta
http://www.google.com/gwt/x?noimg=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fatlanta.cbslocal.com%2F2011%2F11%2F10%2Ftuberculosis-breaks-out-at-occupy-atlantas-base%2F[/quote]

Don’t forget the head lice.

791

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
"But at some point between my grandfather’s time and now, getting your hands dirty became something to be ashamed of. My generation perpetuated that. We made it socially unacceptable to:

A) Do any job that requires sweat and/or a uniform.

B) Work 70-hour weeks to get ahead.

So if you don’t do either of those things, what’s left? Getting an education and waiting for a good job in your field. But now, when we catch you doing that, we mock you and tell you to go flip burgers. And that’s bullshit. We told you your whole lives that those jobs were for idiots and failures. You think you’re too good for those jobs because that’s what we’ve been fucking telling you since birth."

[/quote]

You might want to consider a better source than Cracked for your cutting edge psychological analysis of the situation.

Nothing wrong with flipping burgers and construction work.

Again I am VERY SORRY that your history/art/liberal studies degree did not get you a job.

QUIT BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE and take responsibility for your own failures.

792

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

QUIT BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE and take responsibility for your own failures.[/quote]

One other thing I’ve noticed: supporters of OWS what it (apparently) stands for generally bristle at being labeled “entitled”.

Then, they go on to explain that the angry masses are, in fact, mad because they were promised something by the older generation (that could never be guaranteed, of course), and now no one is making good on these impossible-to-guarantee promises.

That’s the very definition of “entitled”: a person feels “entitled” to a result that was promised to them no matter how unrealistic or unworkable that result now is.

I have problem with young people being mad at the elders for these promises - and if you want the perpetrators of this fraud to step forward, look for the Baby Boomers - but let go of the “entitlement” mindset. It’s over.

793

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

QUIT BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE and take responsibility for your own failures.[/quote]

One other thing I’ve noticed: supporters of OWS what it (apparently) stands for generally bristle at being labeled “entitled”.

Then, they go on to explain that the angry masses are, in fact, mad because they were promised something by the older generation (that could never be guaranteed, of course), and now no one is making good on these impossible-to-guarantee promises.

That’s the very definition of “entitled”: a person feels “entitled” to a result that was promised to them no matter how unrealistic or unworkable that result now is.

I have problem with young people being mad at the elders for these promises - and if you want the perpetrators of this fraud to step forward, look for the Baby Boomers - but let go of the “entitlement” mindset. It’s over. [/quote]

My father has a Ph.d and my mother has a Masters in Mathematics…so college WAS expected…but NOTHING was guaranteed. If I had chosen not to go to college, I would have been expected to go and get a job and get the hell out of their house.

I received none of their mathematical aptitude (DAMN YOU BOTH!! LOL) so I decided to get a bachelors in Political Science to go to law school…well I did not have the money, so I went back (to my affordable state school durrrr) and got a Masters in Human Resource Management to get the job I have today.

Point being, quit fucking complaining and blaming the fuck our of everybody else and GO MAKE SOMETHING OF YOURSELF.

794

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

QUIT BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE and take responsibility for your own failures.[/quote]

One other thing I’ve noticed: supporters of OWS what it (apparently) stands for generally bristle at being labeled “entitled”.

Then, they go on to explain that the angry masses are, in fact, mad because they were promised something by the older generation (that could never be guaranteed, of course), and now no one is making good on these impossible-to-guarantee promises.

That’s the very definition of “entitled”: a person feels “entitled” to a result that was promised to them no matter how unrealistic or unworkable that result now is.

I have problem with young people being mad at the elders for these promises - and if you want the perpetrators of this fraud to step forward, look for the Baby Boomers - but let go of the “entitlement” mindset. It’s over. [/quote]

If I promised you 5,000 dollars to do backbreaking manual labor for ten days, ten hours each day, and, at the end of it, I explained that I didn’t have the money because I gambled it away at a casino, do you think you’d be a little upset?

The expectations weren’t quite so “unrealistic” before the housing bubble burst, the bailouts started, etc, etc - all things the “older generation” is, in fact, absolutely responsible for.

795

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
"But at some point between my grandfather’s time and now, getting your hands dirty became something to be ashamed of. My generation perpetuated that. We made it socially unacceptable to:

A) Do any job that requires sweat and/or a uniform.

B) Work 70-hour weeks to get ahead.

So if you don’t do either of those things, what’s left? Getting an education and waiting for a good job in your field. But now, when we catch you doing that, we mock you and tell you to go flip burgers. And that’s bullshit. We told you your whole lives that those jobs were for idiots and failures. You think you’re too good for those jobs because that’s what we’ve been fucking telling you since birth."

[/quote]

You might want to consider a better source than Cracked for your cutting edge psychological analysis of the situation.

Nothing wrong with flipping burgers and construction work.

Again I am VERY SORRY that your history/art/liberal studies degree did not get you a job.

QUIT BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE and take responsibility for your own failures.
[/quote]

I keep finding more and more people on this forum who miss the point so badly its not worth the time to explain it to them. Welcome to the club.

796

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
"But at some point between my grandfather’s time and now, getting your hands dirty became something to be ashamed of. My generation perpetuated that. We made it socially unacceptable to:

A) Do any job that requires sweat and/or a uniform.

B) Work 70-hour weeks to get ahead.

So if you don’t do either of those things, what’s left? Getting an education and waiting for a good job in your field. But now, when we catch you doing that, we mock you and tell you to go flip burgers. And that’s bullshit. We told you your whole lives that those jobs were for idiots and failures. You think you’re too good for those jobs because that’s what we’ve been fucking telling you since birth."

[/quote]

You might want to consider a better source than Cracked for your cutting edge psychological analysis of the situation.

Nothing wrong with flipping burgers and construction work.

Again I am VERY SORRY that your history/art/liberal studies degree did not get you a job.

QUIT BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE and take responsibility for your own failures.
[/quote]

I keep finding more and more people on this forum who miss the point so badly its not worth the time to explain it to them. Welcome to the club.[/quote]

797

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

If I promised you 5,000 dollars to do backbreaking manual labor for ten days, ten hours each day, and, at the end of it, I explained that I didn’t have the money because I gambled it away at a casino, do you think you’d be a little upset?[/quote]

Well, this would be an enforceable contract.

And your comparison is just plain goofy - who do you know that suffered through “backbreaking labor” to get a college degree? You can sleepwalk your way to a B average. It isn’t that a degree isn’t a good thing - just don’t pretend that people have to crawl through broken glass and hellfire to get one. It’s more like a 4 year party.

And the money hasn’t necessarily been gambled away - it’s simply been earmarked to pay for the retirement of the Baby Boomers.

798

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

If I promised you 5,000 dollars to do backbreaking manual labor for ten days, ten hours each day, and, at the end of it, I explained that I didn’t have the money because I gambled it away at a casino, do you think you’d be a little upset?[/quote]

Well, this would be an enforceable contract.

And your comparison is just plain goofy - who do you know that suffered through “backbreaking labor” to get a college degree? You can sleepwalk your way to a B average. It isn’t that a degree isn’t a good thing - just don’t pretend that people have to crawl through broken glass and hellfire to get one. It’s more like a 4 year party.

And the money hasn’t necessarily been gambled away - it’s simply been earmarked to pay for the retirement of the Baby Boomers.[/quote]

I love when people pick apart an analogy in order to avoid the point being made. I mean, life isn’t manufactured by Russel Stover, it doesn’t melt in the heat, and you can’t buy it at a store – life isn’t like a box of chocolates at all!!

Point is, younger generation was told by older generation that, if they did X, they would get Y. They did X, and now they can’t get Y because the older generation fucked things up (or is keeping it all for themselves).

Terribly sorry that “Hey, mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, and every other person who’s ever given me advice on the topic - you said I should go to college no matter what, and now I’m fucked” isn’t an “enforceable contract”.

799

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I love when people pick apart an analogy in order to avoid the point being made. I mean, life isn’t manufactured by Russel Stover, it doesn’t melt in the heat, and you can’t buy it at a store – life isn’t like a box of chocolates at all!![/quote]

But that isn’t what I’m doing. I’m showing it’s a bad comparison. The promise you say was made was never guaranteed. How could the “older generation” make good on that “promise”? How could they control it?

See? Bad analogy.

[quote]Point is, younger generation was told by older generation that, if they did X, they would get Y. They did X, and now they can’t get Y because the older generation fucked things up (or is keeping it all for themselves).

Terribly sorry that “Hey, mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, and every other person who’s ever given me advice on the topic - you said I should go to college no matter what, and now I’m fucked” isn’t an “enforceable contract”.[/quote]

The point about enforcement is that if you know it’s a promise that cannot be enforced - i.e., guaranteed - you can’t rely on it, you can’t depend on it.

800

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
"But at some point between my grandfather’s time and now, getting your hands dirty became something to be ashamed of. My generation perpetuated that. We made it socially unacceptable to:

A) Do any job that requires sweat and/or a uniform.

B) Work 70-hour weeks to get ahead.

So if you don’t do either of those things, what’s left? Getting an education and waiting for a good job in your field. But now, when we catch you doing that, we mock you and tell you to go flip burgers. And that’s bullshit. We told you your whole lives that those jobs were for idiots and failures. You think you’re too good for those jobs because that’s what we’ve been fucking telling you since birth."

[/quote]

You might want to consider a better source than Cracked for your cutting edge psychological analysis of the situation.

Nothing wrong with flipping burgers and construction work.

Again I am VERY SORRY that your history/art/liberal studies degree did not get you a job.

QUIT BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE and take responsibility for your own failures.
[/quote]

I keep finding more and more people on this forum who miss the point so badly its not worth the time to explain it to them. Welcome to the club.[/quote]
[/quote]

Right. And what would happen if all the kids going to college got “degrees that paid”?

Hint: those markets would be oversaturated with people with degrees in the field.

Damn. Guess the hint kinda gave it away.

801

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

QUIT BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE and take responsibility for your own failures.[/quote]

One other thing I’ve noticed: supporters of OWS what it (apparently) stands for generally bristle at being labeled “entitled”.

Then, they go on to explain that the angry masses are, in fact, mad because they were promised something by the older generation (that could never be guaranteed, of course), and now no one is making good on these impossible-to-guarantee promises.

That’s the very definition of “entitled”: a person feels “entitled” to a result that was promised to them no matter how unrealistic or unworkable that result now is.

I have problem with young people being mad at the elders for these promises - and if you want the perpetrators of this fraud to step forward, look for the Baby Boomers - but let go of the “entitlement” mindset. It’s over. [/quote]

If I promised you 5,000 dollars to do backbreaking manual labor for ten days, ten hours each day, and, at the end of it, I explained that I didn’t have the money because I gambled it away at a casino, do you think you’d be a little upset?

The expectations weren’t quite so “unrealistic” before the housing bubble burst, the bailouts started, etc, etc - all things the “older generation” is, in fact, absolutely responsible for.

[/quote]

Great analogy; perfectly on point.

HOWEVER, don’t let the corporate media spin this into “older vs. younger”; that’s just more divide and conquer. It’s really about psychopaths and their authoritarian followers vs. people who can develop a conscience.

802

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I love when people pick apart an analogy in order to avoid the point being made. I mean, life isn’t manufactured by Russel Stover, it doesn’t melt in the heat, and you can’t buy it at a store – life isn’t like a box of chocolates at all!![/quote]

But that isn’t what I’m doing. I’m showing it’s a bad comparison. The promise you say was made was never guaranteed. How could the “older generation” make good on that “promise”? How could they control it?

See? Bad analogy.

[quote]Point is, younger generation was told by older generation that, if they did X, they would get Y. They did X, and now they can’t get Y because the older generation fucked things up (or is keeping it all for themselves).

Terribly sorry that “Hey, mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, and every other person who’s ever given me advice on the topic - you said I should go to college no matter what, and now I’m fucked” isn’t an “enforceable contract”.[/quote]

The point about enforcement is that if you know it’s a promise that cannot be enforced - i.e., guaranteed - you can’t rely on it, you can’t depend on it. [/quote]

Are you suggesting the housing crash was inevitable? Unavoidable? How about the bailouts, AIG, TARP, etc?

The older generation could have made good on that “promise” by, um, not fucking up the economy and demanding everything for themselves. They could support reform of SS/Medicaid/Medicare, even if that means less gets “earmarked” for them.

This economy wasn’t fucked up by kids in college.

803

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

QUIT BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE and take responsibility for your own failures.
[/quote]

No, I will NOT “take responsibility” for the results of being attacked my entire life (physical pollution, psychological warfare, etc.) by a clusterfuck of psychopaths and their authoritarian followers.

804

Its funny, tbolt - you and a few other posters on here keep harping about the OWS crowd not wanting to “take responsibility”, etc.

Who’s responsible for the state of the economy - the OWS generation, or their parents? Who was running Wall Street, and the corporations, and the housing market, and the government? College kids?

The point of the “lost the money at a casino” part of my analogy, btw, was that your generation is as responsible for the state of the economy as someone would be if they went to a casino and gambled money away. It wasn’t that the money lost was “gambled”, but a comment on who is responsible.