Occupy Wall Street

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
505

[quote]benos4752 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Just a heads up, those aren’t their (OWS) points…It’s a variation of the 25 points of the Nazi Party.[/quote]

So its a strawman, I see…

The paint our political opponents as nazi`s trick its getting a bit old.

[/quote]

Well…since the American Nazi Party has thrown their support behind the occupy movement…I wouldn’t say it’s to far of a stretch…[/quote]

So, even though the nazi party supports it( or rather sees it as an opportunity to get spread their ideas to the people protesting ) doesnt make the original protesters nazi.

If I supported you in a argument in here at PWI, would that make you a leftist norwegian?

506

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]benos4752 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Just a heads up, those aren’t their (OWS) points…It’s a variation of the 25 points of the Nazi Party.[/quote]

So its a strawman, I see…

The paint our political opponents as nazi`s trick its getting a bit old.

[/quote]

Well…since the American Nazi Party has thrown their support behind the occupy movement…I wouldn’t say it’s to far of a stretch…[/quote]

So, even though the nazi party supports it( or rather sees it as an opportunity to get spread their ideas to the people protesting ) doesnt make the original protesters nazi.

If I supported you in a argument in here at PWI, would that make you a leftist norwegian?

[/quote]

Haha no. And I’m not trying to say that all of the protestors are supporting the ideology.

But, it is still something to be concerned about.

And, will say that Obama, pelosi, and other democrats throwing their support behind the movement better be careful. If the mainstream media ever decides to be fair (so, they’re probably safe to be honest); between protestors in Boston spitting on the girl from the coast guard walking to work, the speaker in LA calling for violence, them disrupting a bunch of small business owners from making money from their food festival thing, and now the Nazis and communists supporting them; could very well come back to bite them in the ass.

Not to mention, Obama got more wall street money than any other candidate in 2008…now, I’m not a wall street banker, so I can’t speak for them, but personally, if I candidate was supporting a group that contained people alling for my beheading, I’d be a little hesitant to give them any more money…so except to see a few dollars missing from his pocket…than again, since he’s now campaigning on the public dime…probably won’t matter.

Note…since the att guy didn’t show up today to install my Internet, typing this on iPhone, sorry for messed up spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc.

507

benos:

I am going to bed so I cant adress your entire post right now, but I can touch on some of the things
you mentioned.

  1. concerns about nazi involment: Even though I understand the mayority of the protesters to be left of center
    and not nazi scum bags I am not so concerned about them turning into nazis because of the endorsment from the nazi party, but I think it is a wise idea to be keeping an eye out for nazi demagogs spreading their fucked up message at the protests disguised as regular protesters( the article that where posted earlyer, described the nazi partys strategy to be like this ), But I think since both unions, democrats, moderat socialists and communists also are endorsing the protests, they are hopefully calling the nazis out,or better
    yet make it hard for them to participat in the protests.

I will try to get back to you tomorrow.

508

Here is another piece on their demands. This list is much shorter though (only 13) but much are along the same line as the list posted earlier. Basically like a robbery, give us everything you have and nobody gets hurt.

509

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Here is another piece on their demands. This list is much shorter though (only 13) but much are along the same line as the list posted earlier. Basically like a robbery, give us everything you have and nobody gets hurt.

[/quote]

the comments seem to indicate that was a public forum post? which makes me think that isn’t exactly something I should follow.

Man…I just wanna know what the actual demands are! Even my good friends can’t answer and some of them went down there already to protest…/sigh

Where is the answer for this clueless guy!? <=== I’m just gonna head back to the gym now!

510
511

[quote]KcThrows wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Here is another piece on their demands. This list is much shorter though (only 13) but much are along the same line as the list posted earlier. Basically like a robbery, give us everything you have and nobody gets hurt.

[/quote]

the comments seem to indicate that was a public forum post? which makes me think that isn’t exactly something I should follow.

Man…I just wanna know what the actual demands are! Even my good friends can’t answer and some of them went down there already to protest…/sigh

Where is the answer for this clueless guy!? <=== I’m just gonna head back to the gym now![/quote]

There aren’t any actual demands yet. No clear leadership or central body has emerged yet - in the meantime, everybody who wants to put the movement down will pick out the most ridiculous “lists of demands” and try to claim it came from “all the OWS people!”

512

[quote]florelius wrote:
benos:

I am going to bed so I cant adress your entire post right now, but I can touch on some of the things
you mentioned.

  1. concerns about nazi involment: Even though I understand the mayority of the protesters to be left of center
    and not nazi scum bags …
    [/quote]

Nazis were/are leftist in nature. Their racist/antisemitic doctrine is what typically gets them a “right wing” placement, but their whole anti-big business, anti-individualism, dictatorship “for the good of the nation” etc etc agenda puts them right next to the communists, the only significant difference being their views on private property, although not that different after all:

“Private property” as conceived under liberalistic economic order was a reversal of the true concept of property. This “private proprerty” represented the right of the individual to manage and to speculate with inherited or acquired property as he pleased, without regard to the general interests…German socialism had to overcome this “private”, that is, unrestrained and irresponsible view of property. All property is common property. The owner is bound by the people and the Reich to the responsible management of his goods. His legal position is only justified when he satisfies this responsibility to the community.

(Ernst Huber, Nazi party spokesman; National Socialism, prepared by Raymond E. Murphy, et al; quoting Huber, Verfassungsrecht des grossdeutschen Reiches (Hamburg, 1939))

513

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]KcThrows wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Here is another piece on their demands. This list is much shorter though (only 13) but much are along the same line as the list posted earlier. Basically like a robbery, give us everything you have and nobody gets hurt.

[/quote]

the comments seem to indicate that was a public forum post? which makes me think that isn’t exactly something I should follow.

Man…I just wanna know what the actual demands are! Even my good friends can’t answer and some of them went down there already to protest…/sigh

Where is the answer for this clueless guy!? <=== I’m just gonna head back to the gym now![/quote]

There aren’t any actual demands yet. No clear leadership or central body has emerged yet - in the meantime, everybody who wants to put the movement down will pick out the most ridiculous “lists of demands” and try to claim it came from “all the OWS people!”[/quote]

This. Everyone wants this movement to represent something else. It looks at the moment as a general protest against inequality but that could all change. And if they wanted to march anywhere, should be Washington.

And I find it very very ironic that a few months ago we had the Tea Party movement and everyone saying here how the media was cherrypicking racist protestors to represent the whole movement, whereas now people are finding the most extreme crazies and using them to discredit OWS

514

[quote]hearnrumors wrote:
looks like the Nazis and Communists now officially support the Occupy movement
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/17/red-white-and-angry
-communist-nazi-parties-endorse-occupy-protests/[/quote]

Nazis, Communists, Democrats, Unions, Unemployed…
The first northeastern freeze will knock some sense into them.

515

Howard Stern destroys a bunch of Occupy Wall Streeters:

516

517

[quote]ephrem wrote:

576×644 161 KB

[/quote]

The problem is all they do is shout slogans. Nothing will be accomplished because they have too many demands.

Winter is coming so they are talking about occupying the subway.

518
519

[quote]Bambi wrote:
And I find it very very ironic that a few months ago we had the Tea Party movement and everyone saying here how the media was cherrypicking racist protestors to represent the whole movement, whereas now people are finding the most extreme crazies and using them to discredit OWS
[/quote]

That’s because the cries of TEA Party racism were proven false. The black Democrat Congressman who claimed that “nigger” was shoted at him as he entered Congress was proven to be a a liar when multiple videos of his entry were shown. Heck, the current head standard-bearer for the TEA party is a black guy, Herman Cain.

Here, we have an anti-semite, Soros (a Nazi collaborator), backing this with money. OWS was organized by a freak who who started “Jew Watch,” there are multiple instances of anti-semitic name-calling, speakers are openly hostile to Israel and Jews, Iran and the Gazans support the movement, the socialist movement is historically anti-semitic, and the Communists and Nazis are actively participating.

Here is yet another “random” occurance:

Birds of a feather.

520

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
benos:

I am going to bed so I cant adress your entire post right now, but I can touch on some of the things
you mentioned.

  1. concerns about nazi involment: Even though I understand the mayority of the protesters to be left of center
    and not nazi scum bags …
    [/quote]

Nazis were/are leftist in nature. Their racist/antisemitic doctrine is what typically gets them a “right wing” placement, but their whole anti-big business, anti-individualism, dictatorship “for the good of the nation” etc etc agenda puts them right next to the communists, the only significant difference being their views on private property, although not that different after all:

“Private property” as conceived under liberalistic economic order was a reversal of the true concept of property. This “private proprerty” represented the right of the individual to manage and to speculate with inherited or acquired property as he pleased, without regard to the general interests…German socialism had to overcome this “private”, that is, unrestrained and irresponsible view of property. All property is common property. The owner is bound by the people and the Reich to the responsible management of his goods. His legal position is only justified when he satisfies this responsibility to the community.

(Ernst Huber, Nazi party spokesman; National Socialism, prepared by Raymond E. Murphy, et al; quoting Huber, Verfassungsrecht des grossdeutschen Reiches (Hamburg, 1939))

[/quote]

It is correct that they are close to socialdemocrats when it comes to their economical position. You can say they are center-left on economical matters.

But again this is not the part of their ideology that is whats define them, or earn them the scumbag badge :P, Also the mayority of people place them at the ranks of rightwing-extremists. So there shouldt be any confusion by what I said in the post you linked to.

ps. They are pretty far from communists, since the communists have anarcho-socialism as theire final goal opposed to the nazi crush on the nationalstate.

521

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
benos:

I am going to bed so I cant adress your entire post right now, but I can touch on some of the things
you mentioned.

  1. concerns about nazi involment: Even though I understand the mayority of the protesters to be left of center
    and not nazi scum bags …
    [/quote]

Nazis were/are leftist in nature. Their racist/antisemitic doctrine is what typically gets them a “right wing” placement, but their whole anti-big business, anti-individualism, dictatorship “for the good of the nation” etc etc agenda puts them right next to the communists, the only significant difference being their views on private property, although not that different after all:

“Private property” as conceived under liberalistic economic order was a reversal of the true concept of property. This “private proprerty” represented the right of the individual to manage and to speculate with inherited or acquired property as he pleased, without regard to the general interests…German socialism had to overcome this “private”, that is, unrestrained and irresponsible view of property. All property is common property. The owner is bound by the people and the Reich to the responsible management of his goods. His legal position is only justified when he satisfies this responsibility to the community.

(Ernst Huber, Nazi party spokesman; National Socialism, prepared by Raymond E. Murphy, et al; quoting Huber, Verfassungsrecht des grossdeutschen Reiches (Hamburg, 1939))

[/quote]

…

But again this is not the part of their ideology that is whats define them, or earn them the scumbag badge :P…[/quote]

but it is.
somehow it is that same ideology of forced social equality and class warfare (with a racist twist in nazi’s case) that has produced some of the most bloodthirsty regimes in history.

522

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
benos:

I am going to bed so I cant adress your entire post right now, but I can touch on some of the things
you mentioned.

  1. concerns about nazi involment: Even though I understand the mayority of the protesters to be left of center
    and not nazi scum bags …
    [/quote]

Nazis were/are leftist in nature. Their racist/antisemitic doctrine is what typically gets them a “right wing” placement, but their whole anti-big business, anti-individualism, dictatorship “for the good of the nation” etc etc agenda puts them right next to the communists, the only significant difference being their views on private property, although not that different after all:

“Private property” as conceived under liberalistic economic order was a reversal of the true concept of property. This “private proprerty” represented the right of the individual to manage and to speculate with inherited or acquired property as he pleased, without regard to the general interests…German socialism had to overcome this “private”, that is, unrestrained and irresponsible view of property. All property is common property. The owner is bound by the people and the Reich to the responsible management of his goods. His legal position is only justified when he satisfies this responsibility to the community.

(Ernst Huber, Nazi party spokesman; National Socialism, prepared by Raymond E. Murphy, et al; quoting Huber, Verfassungsrecht des grossdeutschen Reiches (Hamburg, 1939))

[/quote]

…

But again this is not the part of their ideology that is whats define them, or earn them the scumbag badge :P…[/quote]

but it is.
somehow it is that same ideology of forced social equality and class warfare (with a racist twist in nazi’s case) that has produced some of the most bloodthirsty regimes in history.
[/quote]

I guess we have to agree to disagree, because when I think nazism I think of this:

racism.
militarism.
sexism.
anti-democracy-ism.
totalitarianism.

Now the sovjet union and the like, where also de facto militarist, anti-democratic and totalitarian, but this is not the trademark of the socialist ideology, but rather the trademark of the totalitarian regimes calling themself socialist. If you understand the difference.

Remember I stand in the norwegian socialist traditions, where democracy, anti-militarism, feminism and anti-racism is a big part of our traditions. Maybe thats why I dont recognize the nazi`s as typically socialist, because they stand on the opposit side on most issues from us( norwegian socialists ).

523

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]hearnrumors wrote:
looks like the Nazis and Communists now officially support the Occupy movement
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/17/red-white-and-angry
-communist-nazi-parties-endorse-occupy-protests/[/quote]

Nazis, Communists, Democrats, Unions, Unemployed…
The first northeastern freeze will knock some sense into them.[/quote]

upsparkles

524

They’re not stealing, just redistrubiting the wealth…

Thieves preying on fellow protesters - m.NYPOST.com
http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK