Occupy Wall Street

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
525

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]hearnrumors wrote:
looks like the Nazis and Communists now officially support the Occupy movement
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/17/red-white-and-angry
-communist-nazi-parties-endorse-occupy-protests/[/quote]

Nazis, Communists, Democrats, Unions, Unemployed…
The first northeastern freeze will knock some sense into them.[/quote]

upsparkles[/quote]

ROFLAO!
If you are a conservative dolt like me, and have to freaking look-up upsparkles in reference to OWS…here ya go…

â??There are certain hand signals that are used in the group to signify response. My favorite is the signal for agreement, or something you like a lot.

People lift their hands and wiggle their fingers. This has come to be called Upsparkles.â??

What is so funny about this is- there IS energy that flows from your hands and can be seen with Kirlian photography. So, without even knowing this- they have tapped into a way to share their light with all- and receive light in return.

526

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
benos:

I am going to bed so I cant adress your entire post right now, but I can touch on some of the things
you mentioned.

  1. concerns about nazi involment: Even though I understand the mayority of the protesters to be left of center
    and not nazi scum bags …
    [/quote]

Nazis were/are leftist in nature. Their racist/antisemitic doctrine is what typically gets them a “right wing” placement, but their whole anti-big business, anti-individualism, dictatorship “for the good of the nation” etc etc agenda puts them right next to the communists, the only significant difference being their views on private property, although not that different after all:

“Private property” as conceived under liberalistic economic order was a reversal of the true concept of property. This “private proprerty” represented the right of the individual to manage and to speculate with inherited or acquired property as he pleased, without regard to the general interests…German socialism had to overcome this “private”, that is, unrestrained and irresponsible view of property. All property is common property. The owner is bound by the people and the Reich to the responsible management of his goods. His legal position is only justified when he satisfies this responsibility to the community.

(Ernst Huber, Nazi party spokesman; National Socialism, prepared by Raymond E. Murphy, et al; quoting Huber, Verfassungsrecht des grossdeutschen Reiches (Hamburg, 1939))

[/quote]

…

But again this is not the part of their ideology that is whats define them, or earn them the scumbag badge :P…[/quote]

but it is.
somehow it is that same ideology of forced social equality and class warfare (with a racist twist in nazi’s case) that has produced some of the most bloodthirsty regimes in history.
[/quote]

… Maybe thats why I dont recognize the nazi`s as typically socialist, because they stand on the opposit side on most issues from us( norwegian socialists ).

[/quote]

but that’s what they are - socialists, whether you “recognize” it or not.
here’s a good read if you’re interested:

527

Kirlian photography of Upsparkles If that doesn’t end it all right now, I don’t know what would. Whoever invented it must have been on acid or crack.

528

[quote]florelius wrote:
Remember I stand in the norwegian socialist traditions, where democracy, anti-militarism, feminism and anti-racism is a big part of our traditions. Maybe thats why I dont recognize the nazi`s as typically socialist, because they stand on the opposit side on most issues from us( norwegian socialists.
[/quote]

ROFLMAO:

“The junior partner in the Norwegian government, the Socialist Left Party of Kristin Halvorsen, (Sosialistisk Venstreparti), plans to vote on a measure calling for military action against Israel if it decides defend against attacks by Hamas in Gaza.”

(Good luck with that; we’ll nuke the shit out of you.)

“NORWAY IS THE MOST ANTI-SEMITIC COUNTRY IN THE WEST”

http://tundratabloids.com/2011/05/norwegian-academic-norway-is-the-most-anti-semitic-country-in-the-west.html

Norway: Extreme Expressions of Anti-Israeli and Anti-Semitic Attitudes

http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=381&PID=470&IID=1919

After the Massacre: Anti-Semitism, Islam, and Norway

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/after-the-massacre-anti-semitism-islam-and-norway/

529

[quote]benos4752 wrote:
They’re not stealing, just redistrubiting the wealth…

Thieves preying on fellow protesters - m.NYPOST.com
http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK[/quote]
A $5500.00 mac, why are these clowns protesting? I don’t even own a computer, I post from work because I can.

530

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Having seen videos and pics, it’s striking how many of these unemployed folks are tatted up --visible, even on the neck and face–are sporting mohawks, long hair, dreads, dyed, and other hippie/punk hairdos. Then there’s the ear plugs and facial piercings. How many of these folks have made themselves less employable from an relatively early age?

Can’t but think that even in a good economy, many of these folks wouldn’t be impressing anyone in a job interview. A lot of them give off the impression that they desire some kind of subsidized, “I’m a creative and free spirited soul artist,” lifestyle. Or, as if they got caught off guard, and, hey there’s not a whole lot of positions open for professional grievance-activists.[/quote]

Yes.

And the more I hear, the more the message has crystallized that the protesters don’t want work, they want the material benefits that work provides.

The more you peel back the layers, the more you realize this has very little to do with frustration over not being able to find work. “Work” is not what they want.

Which actually explains why they are protesting Wall Street, which, as an institution, can do very little if nothing about improving the actual unemployment rate - i.e., creating “jobs” - but can resdistribute its wealth so that many others may enjoy the material benefits that those jobs would provide.
[/quote]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. And you were so close to getting away from that “damn kids these days and their entitlements!” mentality.

As to how you would go about solving the problems at hand - why not involve yourself in the movement, find likeminded individuals, and direct it towards those ends? Honest question. It seems now the movement needs people with clear, reasonable goals to step forward and lead.

531

[quote]kevinm1 wrote:

[quote]benos4752 wrote:
They’re not stealing, just redistrubiting the wealth…

Thieves preying on fellow protesters - m.NYPOST.com
http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK[/quote]
A $5500.00 mac, why are these clowns protesting? I don’t even own a computer, I post from work because I can.[/quote]

They are protesting ‘hate’ and ‘money’ LOL!

532

[quote]kevinm1 wrote:

[quote]benos4752 wrote:
They’re not stealing, just redistrubiting the wealth…

Thieves preying on fellow protesters - m.NYPOST.com
http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK[/quote]
A $5500.00 mac, why are these clowns protesting? I don’t even own a computer, I post from work because I can.[/quote]

Why the hell would you bring a $5500 laptop to a protest? Idiot.

533

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]kevinm1 wrote:

[quote]benos4752 wrote:
They’re not stealing, just redistrubiting the wealth…

Thieves preying on fellow protesters - m.NYPOST.com
http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK[/quote]
A $5500.00 mac, why are these clowns protesting? I don’t even own a computer, I post from work because I can.[/quote]

Why the hell would you bring a $5500 laptop to a protest? Idiot.[/quote]
That’s what I’m saying, I mean come on it’s the city there are always unsavory types, it’s like leaving your car unlocked overnight and being upset your cd’s are gone.

534

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]kevinm1 wrote:

[quote]benos4752 wrote:
They’re not stealing, just redistrubiting the wealth…

Thieves preying on fellow protesters - m.NYPOST.com
http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK[/quote]
A $5500.00 mac, why are these clowns protesting? I don’t even own a computer, I post from work because I can.[/quote]

Why the hell would you bring a $5500 laptop to a protest? Idiot.[/quote]

But ALL THEY WANT IS…wait, what the fuck do they want again??

Oh yea, somebody to get rid of the Joooos banking cartel and pay off their student loans that somebody forced them to get.

/oh yea, and a new $5000 Mac

535

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]KcThrows wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Here is another piece on their demands. This list is much shorter though (only 13) but much are along the same line as the list posted earlier. Basically like a robbery, give us everything you have and nobody gets hurt.

[/quote]

the comments seem to indicate that was a public forum post? which makes me think that isn’t exactly something I should follow.

Man…I just wanna know what the actual demands are! Even my good friends can’t answer and some of them went down there already to protest…/sigh

Where is the answer for this clueless guy!? <=== I’m just gonna head back to the gym now![/quote]

There aren’t any actual demands yet. No clear leadership or central body has emerged yet - in the meantime, everybody who wants to put the movement down will pick out the most ridiculous “lists of demands” and try to claim it came from “all the OWS people!”[/quote]

Not trying to put the movement down at all, just wondering what the hell they want?? What is your purpose what are you trying to accomplish. Maybe because it’s the “Facebook/Twitter” generation they really don’t have a purpose. Yeah they can get a shit load of people to their location thanks to socail media but then what?

536

This had been posted awhile back and I think it’s appropriate again. If there so into redistribution of wealth and land then why not their GPA?

537

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Wrong, wrong, wrong. And you were so close to getting away from that “damn kids these days and their entitlements!” mentality.[/quote]

Incorrect. I am basing my opinion on the interviews conducted with the crowd and the statements made by the proponents themselves. More and more it has become clear - the bulk of the protesters aren’t really after jobs - as in, if we returned to 5% unemployment tomorrow (considered “full” employment, roughly), there’s no reason to think they’d all be satisfied. They want something else - primarily some version of wealth redistribution. They’ve made that clear enough.

All they’ve done is present a message that they want more stuff and they want it paid for by others. I haven’t seen anyone refute that message on the street from the stuff I’ve seen.

I agree, so why isn’t anyone doing that?

I personally have no desire to involve myself in the movement, largely because of what I have said all along - protesting Wall Street isn’t a means to anything if your end is - truly - jobs in the economy. I don’t agree with what appears to be the general philosophy of the crowd, and I certainly don’t agree that their strategy is going to achieve anything other than clutter.

Early on I noted my policy prescriptions for what I’d like to see done to improve the situation - how many of the OWC crowd would buy what I am selling?

538

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Remember I stand in the norwegian socialist traditions, where democracy, anti-militarism, feminism and anti-racism is a big part of our traditions. Maybe thats why I dont recognize the nazi`s as typically socialist, because they stand on the opposit side on most issues from us( norwegian socialists.
[/quote]

ROFLMAO:

“The junior partner in the Norwegian government, the Socialist Left Party of Kristin Halvorsen, (Sosialistisk Venstreparti), plans to vote on a measure calling for military action against Israel if it decides defend against attacks by Hamas in Gaza.”

(Good luck with that; we’ll nuke the shit out of you.)

“NORWAY IS THE MOST ANTI-SEMITIC COUNTRY IN THE WEST”

http://tundratabloids.com/2011/05/norwegian-academic-norway-is-the-most-anti-semitic-country-in-the-west.html

Norway: Extreme Expressions of Anti-Israeli and Anti-Semitic Attitudes

http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=381&PID=470&IID=1919

After the Massacre: Anti-Semitism, Islam, and Norway

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/after-the-massacre-anti-semitism-islam-and-norway/[/quote]

Sv( sosialistisk venstreparti ), has betrayed its anti-militarist origin and its socialist origin( they are practically liberals ), but I have never heard they have proposed military action against Israel, but rather a trade boicot.

And I cant remember hearing or reading anything antisemittic here in norway. What I have read and heard is critique of the Israely occupation of Gaza, but havent seen any hate against Israel because its a country consisting of jews.

If you want to call every critic of Israel antisemite, go right ahead, but in my book antisemitism isnt being against a nations military actions.

539

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
benos:

I am going to bed so I cant adress your entire post right now, but I can touch on some of the things
you mentioned.

  1. concerns about nazi involment: Even though I understand the mayority of the protesters to be left of center
    and not nazi scum bags …
    [/quote]

Nazis were/are leftist in nature. Their racist/antisemitic doctrine is what typically gets them a “right wing” placement, but their whole anti-big business, anti-individualism, dictatorship “for the good of the nation” etc etc agenda puts them right next to the communists, the only significant difference being their views on private property, although not that different after all:

“Private property” as conceived under liberalistic economic order was a reversal of the true concept of property. This “private proprerty” represented the right of the individual to manage and to speculate with inherited or acquired property as he pleased, without regard to the general interests…German socialism had to overcome this “private”, that is, unrestrained and irresponsible view of property. All property is common property. The owner is bound by the people and the Reich to the responsible management of his goods. His legal position is only justified when he satisfies this responsibility to the community.

(Ernst Huber, Nazi party spokesman; National Socialism, prepared by Raymond E. Murphy, et al; quoting Huber, Verfassungsrecht des grossdeutschen Reiches (Hamburg, 1939))

[/quote]

…

But again this is not the part of their ideology that is whats define them, or earn them the scumbag badge :P…[/quote]

but it is.
somehow it is that same ideology of forced social equality and class warfare (with a racist twist in nazi’s case) that has produced some of the most bloodthirsty regimes in history.
[/quote]

… Maybe thats why I dont recognize the nazi`s as typically socialist, because they stand on the opposit side on most issues from us( norwegian socialists ).

[/quote]

but that’s what they are - socialists, whether you “recognize” it or not.
here’s a good read if you’re interested:

Okay I can agree that they in economcial matters they are center-left, but to say like this. All national-socialist are socialists, but not all socialists are national-socialist.

Basickly saying that most socialist you will encounter( me included ) arent nazis.

And to be stating the obvious: The nazi horror wherent the establishment of a welfare state in germany, but rather the fact that they killed of 6million jews, waged war against almost the entire world and that they established a totalitarian tyranny. If you remove all the rectionary shit from their ideology, you are left with a vague socialdemocratic plattform.

540

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Remember I stand in the norwegian socialist traditions, where democracy, anti-militarism, feminism and anti-racism is a big part of our traditions. Maybe thats why I dont recognize the nazi`s as typically socialist, because they stand on the opposit side on most issues from us( norwegian socialists.
[/quote]

ROFLMAO:

“The junior partner in the Norwegian government, the Socialist Left Party of Kristin Halvorsen, (Sosialistisk Venstreparti), plans to vote on a measure calling for military action against Israel if it decides defend against attacks by Hamas in Gaza.”

(Good luck with that; we’ll nuke the shit out of you.)

“NORWAY IS THE MOST ANTI-SEMITIC COUNTRY IN THE WEST”

http://tundratabloids.com/2011/05/norwegian-academic-norway-is-the-most-anti-semitic-country-in-the-west.html

Norway: Extreme Expressions of Anti-Israeli and Anti-Semitic Attitudes

http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=381&PID=470&IID=1919

After the Massacre: Anti-Semitism, Islam, and Norway

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/after-the-massacre-anti-semitism-islam-and-norway/[/quote]

Sv( sosialistisk venstreparti ), has betrayed its anti-militarist origin and its socialist origin( they are practically liberals ), but I have never heard they have proposed military action against Israel, but rather a trade boicot.

And I cant remember hearing or reading anything antisemittic here in norway. What I have read and heard is critique of the Israely occupation of Gaza, but havent seen any hate against Israel because its a country consisting of jews.

If you want to call every critic of Israel antisemite, go right ahead, but in my book antisemitism isnt being against a nations military actions.

[/quote]

it always surprises me when liberals are all up in arms against Israel - the most liberal country in the middle east and are rather adamant about “protecting” their neighbors who don’t give a fuck about the same “human rights” those liberals are supposed to be associating themselves with.

541

[quote]florelius wrote:
…
And to be stating the obvious: The nazi horror wherent the establishment of a welfare state in germany, but rather the fact that they killed of 6million jews, waged war against almost the entire world and that they established a totalitarian tyranny. If you remove all the rectionary shit from their ideology, you are left with a vague socialdemocratic plattform.
…
[/quote]

k, now that we’ve established that NAZI platform is a typical left-wing socialist platform with a racist angle that’s pretty much all I was trying to tell you.

542

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
…
And to be stating the obvious: The nazi horror wherent the establishment of a welfare state in germany, but rather the fact that they killed of 6million jews, waged war against almost the entire world and that they established a totalitarian tyranny. If you remove all the rectionary shit from their ideology, you are left with a vague socialdemocratic plattform.
…
[/quote]

k, now that we’ve established that NAZI platform is a typical left-wing socialist platform with a racist angle that’s pretty much all I was trying to tell you. [/quote]

Well okay, then we agree on that.

543

[quote]florelius wrote:
Sv( sosialistisk venstreparti ), has betrayed its anti-militarist origin and its socialist origin( they are practically liberals ), but I have never heard they have proposed military action against Israel, but rather a trade boicot. [/quote]

Always the excuse. And, whether you recall it or not, they threatened war on behalf of the arabs. It’s in the link.

[quote]
And I cant remember hearing or reading anything antisemittic here in norway. What I have read and heard is critique of the Israely occupation of Gaza, but havent seen any hate against Israel because its a country consisting of jews. [/quote]

Really, then how come calling someone a “Jew” is a grade-school insult in Norway?
How come Jews hide their identity in Norway?
How come Jewish cemetaries are torn up in Norway?

[quote]
If you want to call every critic of Israel antisemite, go right ahead, but in my book antisemitism isnt being against a nations military actions. [/quote]

Sure, but the absurdity of consitently taking the side of Hamas who:

(1) refuse a homeland if it requires them to not attack a Jewish neighbor (the 2-state solution – rejected by the arabs) and

(2) consistently show they are a violent people, both among themselves, but also participating in things like crossing the border, crawling through windows and slicing the neck of a 2 year old little girl so that she bleeds out holding her teddy bear.

shows that Norweigians are either: (A) stupid or (B) anti-semitic.

I happen to know you are not a stupid people.

And, IMHO, I don’t believe you are a naturally anti-semitic people.

Antisemitism is a by-product of socialism. Why? I have no idea. Perhaps because
the Judeo-Christian values of personal responsibility and hard work are antithetical to socialism.

544

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Always the excuse. And, whether you recall it or not, they threatened war on behalf of the arabs. It’s in the link.
[/quote]

Well I check it out.

Thats probably correct, but whats the link to socialists? I am one and know plenty, but I dont know any one of them who uses jew as a insult, or tear up their cemetaries.

I have heard people using jew as a insult at high school, but those people didnt care about politics or they voted for frp( populist rightwingparty )

Are we talking about norwegian socialists or are we talking about just norwegians?

If its the latter, then yhea there is probably antisemites here in Norway. I can admit that we have a history full of racism towards: jews, sami( etnich group in northern norway ), gypsys and more resently arabs/muslims. In the case of the jews the most famous norwegian antisemitic acts are:

  1. After we separeted from denmark in 1814 we got our own constitusion and in that constituion it stood that jews, jesuits and I think gypsis where not allowed to get in to Norway.

  2. Under the WWII my country men where rather good at handing jews over to the Nazi`s.

So yes my country have a antisemitic and racist past and I am the first to admit that and
offcourse say that it is a shame, but I cant really see that the norwegian left have had so much to do with this. The constituion where created before any socialist movement where
created in my country. During the WWII the leftwing of my country where those who took a firmest stand against the fascists and probably where the ones who rescued jews from the fascists( again sad enough, to few where rescued ). And right after the war the norwegian labour movement where positiv towards Israel. One of the men at the top of this movement where given an honor citizenship by Israel for his support. So no the Norwegian left arent antisemitic, but in the latest decade they have gained sympathy with the struggling palestinian people based on humanitarianism not racism. Again the leftwing critique against Israel is not based on racism, we dont think you are a lowerlifeform than us, nor do we believe in those idiotic conspiracy theorys that says jews control the world in secret etc.

[quote]
Antisemitism is a by-product of socialism. Why? I have no idea. Perhaps because
the Judeo-Christian values of personal responsibility and hard work are antithetical to socialism.[/quote]

No its not, and you should know this.

The origins of antisemitism are older than socialism and have much more to do with europeen christianity and probably the crusades. And if remember correctly, wherent parts of the sionistic movement socialist? And the russian socialdemocratic party had its own jewihs fraction. So no I dont think the “antisemitism are born out of socialism” have any roots in reality.