Obscenely Muscled MMA Fighter

Training
21

from a post of ZEB during a discussion about the UFC underpaying their fighters.

[quote]Led by a fight between Internet sensation Kimbo Slice and Roy Nelson, the Sept. 30 edition of The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights became the most-watched original series in Spike’s history and its top show ever among men 18 to 34 and 18 to 49.

The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights averaged a 3.7 household rating and 5.3 million viewers during its one-hour telecast, peaking with 6.1 million watchers, according to Nielsen data. Among that total were 2 million men 18 to 34 (a 6.9 rating) and 3.1 million men 18 to 49 (a 5.4 rating).
The show, according to Spike officials, was the top-rated program on television on Wednesday among men 18 to 34, 18 to 49, 18 to 24, and 25 to 34. It also was the most-watched program among persons 18 to 34 with a 4.7 rating and 2.7 million.
The episode drew more men 18 to 34 than anything program on TV this week thus far, except ESPN’s Monday Night Football. According to Spike officials, only seven series in all of television this fall season have attracted more men of that age group, even though The Ultimate Fighter is now in its 10th campaign.
Viewership peaked with 6.1 million watchers in the 9:45 p.m. quarter hour for the Slice- Nelson bout, which now ranks at the network’s top UFC telecast. The previous mark was 5.9 million viewers for Rampage Jackson-Dan Henderson fight at UFC 75 in September, 2007.
An encore at 11 p.m. garnered 1.5 million viewers, bringing the combined audience for the telecasts to 6.8 million." [/quote]

Sento, you think it’s only Kimbo’s persona?
In other words, if he’d been a average built lightweight fighter, the effect would be the same?

22

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
from a post of ZEB during a discussion about the UFC underpaying their fighters.

Led by a fight between Internet sensation Kimbo Slice and Roy Nelson, the Sept. 30 edition of The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights became the most-watched original series in Spike’s history and its top show ever among men 18 to 34 and 18 to 49.

The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights averaged a 3.7 household rating and 5.3 million viewers during its one-hour telecast, peaking with 6.1 million watchers, according to Nielsen data. Among that total were 2 million men 18 to 34 (a 6.9 rating) and 3.1 million men 18 to 49 (a 5.4 rating).
The show, according to Spike officials, was the top-rated program on television on Wednesday among men 18 to 34, 18 to 49, 18 to 24, and 25 to 34. It also was the most-watched program among persons 18 to 34 with a 4.7 rating and 2.7 million.
The episode drew more men 18 to 34 than anything program on TV this week thus far, except ESPN’s Monday Night Football. According to Spike officials, only seven series in all of television this fall season have attracted more men of that age group, even though The Ultimate Fighter is now in its 10th campaign.
Viewership peaked with 6.1 million watchers in the 9:45 p.m. quarter hour for the Slice- Nelson bout, which now ranks at the network’s top UFC telecast. The previous mark was 5.9 million viewers for Rampage Jackson-Dan Henderson fight at UFC 75 in September, 2007.
An encore at 11 p.m. garnered 1.5 million viewers, bringing the combined audience for the telecasts to 6.8 million."

Sento, you think it’s only Kimbo’s persona?
In other words, if he’d been a average built lightweight fighter, the effect would be the same?

[/quote]

One myth that’s been dispelled totally in my eyes is that of the casual MMA fan being boorish, white and racist.

23

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
from a post of ZEB during a discussion about the UFC underpaying their fighters.

Led by a fight between Internet sensation Kimbo Slice and Roy Nelson, the Sept. 30 edition of The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights became the most-watched original series in Spike’s history and its top show ever among men 18 to 34 and 18 to 49.

The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights averaged a 3.7 household rating and 5.3 million viewers during its one-hour telecast, peaking with 6.1 million watchers, according to Nielsen data. Among that total were 2 million men 18 to 34 (a 6.9 rating) and 3.1 million men 18 to 49 (a 5.4 rating).
The show, according to Spike officials, was the top-rated program on television on Wednesday among men 18 to 34, 18 to 49, 18 to 24, and 25 to 34. It also was the most-watched program among persons 18 to 34 with a 4.7 rating and 2.7 million.
The episode drew more men 18 to 34 than anything program on TV this week thus far, except ESPN’s Monday Night Football. According to Spike officials, only seven series in all of television this fall season have attracted more men of that age group, even though The Ultimate Fighter is now in its 10th campaign.
Viewership peaked with 6.1 million watchers in the 9:45 p.m. quarter hour for the Slice- Nelson bout, which now ranks at the network’s top UFC telecast. The previous mark was 5.9 million viewers for Rampage Jackson-Dan Henderson fight at UFC 75 in September, 2007.
An encore at 11 p.m. garnered 1.5 million viewers, bringing the combined audience for the telecasts to 6.8 million."

Sento, you think it’s only Kimbo’s persona?
In other words, if he’d been a average built lightweight fighter, the effect would be the same?
[/quote]

I didn’t say only. Yeah, I’ll admit that him being lean and muscular adds to his appeal. But there are other just as heavily muscles MMA fighters who receive far less face time (Monson for examplle) because they don’t have the “bad ass street fighter with gold teeth and grizzly Adams beard” thing going for them.

So, in Kimbo’s case I honestly think that it’s mostly his persona/image that is his appeal. But I’ll admit that his physique certainly doesn’t hurt him either. :slight_smile:

24

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
from a post of ZEB during a discussion about the UFC underpaying their fighters.

Led by a fight between Internet sensation Kimbo Slice and Roy Nelson, the Sept. 30 edition of The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights became the most-watched original series in Spike’s history and its top show ever among men 18 to 34 and 18 to 49.

The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights averaged a 3.7 household rating and 5.3 million viewers during its one-hour telecast, peaking with 6.1 million watchers, according to Nielsen data. Among that total were 2 million men 18 to 34 (a 6.9 rating) and 3.1 million men 18 to 49 (a 5.4 rating).
The show, according to Spike officials, was the top-rated program on television on Wednesday among men 18 to 34, 18 to 49, 18 to 24, and 25 to 34. It also was the most-watched program among persons 18 to 34 with a 4.7 rating and 2.7 million.
The episode drew more men 18 to 34 than anything program on TV this week thus far, except ESPN’s Monday Night Football. According to Spike officials, only seven series in all of television this fall season have attracted more men of that age group, even though The Ultimate Fighter is now in its 10th campaign.
Viewership peaked with 6.1 million watchers in the 9:45 p.m. quarter hour for the Slice- Nelson bout, which now ranks at the network’s top UFC telecast. The previous mark was 5.9 million viewers for Rampage Jackson-Dan Henderson fight at UFC 75 in September, 2007.
An encore at 11 p.m. garnered 1.5 million viewers, bringing the combined audience for the telecasts to 6.8 million."

Sento, you think it’s only Kimbo’s persona?
In other words, if he’d been a average built lightweight fighter, the effect would be the same?

One myth that’s been dispelled totally in my eyes is that of the casual MMA fan being boorish, white and racist.[/quote]

Hmmm, has it though?

Racism is a funny thing, and doesn’t always mean that a person hates people of a certain ethnic group. It could also mean that they think that all black people are ebonics talking heavily muscled thugs with gold teeth who love to get into fights. They may cheer these people on in the ring, but still be completely racist.

25

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
from a post of ZEB during a discussion about the UFC underpaying their fighters.

Led by a fight between Internet sensation Kimbo Slice and Roy Nelson, the Sept. 30 edition of The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights became the most-watched original series in Spike’s history and its top show ever among men 18 to 34 and 18 to 49.

The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights averaged a 3.7 household rating and 5.3 million viewers during its one-hour telecast, peaking with 6.1 million watchers, according to Nielsen data. Among that total were 2 million men 18 to 34 (a 6.9 rating) and 3.1 million men 18 to 49 (a 5.4 rating).
The show, according to Spike officials, was the top-rated program on television on Wednesday among men 18 to 34, 18 to 49, 18 to 24, and 25 to 34. It also was the most-watched program among persons 18 to 34 with a 4.7 rating and 2.7 million.
The episode drew more men 18 to 34 than anything program on TV this week thus far, except ESPN’s Monday Night Football. According to Spike officials, only seven series in all of television this fall season have attracted more men of that age group, even though The Ultimate Fighter is now in its 10th campaign.
Viewership peaked with 6.1 million watchers in the 9:45 p.m. quarter hour for the Slice- Nelson bout, which now ranks at the network’s top UFC telecast. The previous mark was 5.9 million viewers for Rampage Jackson-Dan Henderson fight at UFC 75 in September, 2007.
An encore at 11 p.m. garnered 1.5 million viewers, bringing the combined audience for the telecasts to 6.8 million."

Sento, you think it’s only Kimbo’s persona?
In other words, if he’d been a average built lightweight fighter, the effect would be the same?

One myth that’s been dispelled totally in my eyes is that of the casual MMA fan being boorish, white and racist.

Hmmm, has it though?

Racism is a funny thing, and doesn’t always mean that a person hates people of a certain ethnic group. It could also mean that they think that all black people are ebonics talking heavily muscled thugs with gold teeth who love to get into fights. They may cheer these people on in the ring, but still be completely racist.[/quote]

That may be so. However: The argument in this forum was that noone tunes in to watch black fighters as much as they do whites and that blacks in MMA don’t get recognition specifically because of them being racist. This TUF season has an almost entirely black set of protagonists, and people are watching. Kimbo, Rampage, Rashad, Jones.

26

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
from a post of ZEB during a discussion about the UFC underpaying their fighters.

Led by a fight between Internet sensation Kimbo Slice and Roy Nelson, the Sept. 30 edition of The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights became the most-watched original series in Spike’s history and its top show ever among men 18 to 34 and 18 to 49.

The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights averaged a 3.7 household rating and 5.3 million viewers during its one-hour telecast, peaking with 6.1 million watchers, according to Nielsen data. Among that total were 2 million men 18 to 34 (a 6.9 rating) and 3.1 million men 18 to 49 (a 5.4 rating).
The show, according to Spike officials, was the top-rated program on television on Wednesday among men 18 to 34, 18 to 49, 18 to 24, and 25 to 34. It also was the most-watched program among persons 18 to 34 with a 4.7 rating and 2.7 million.
The episode drew more men 18 to 34 than anything program on TV this week thus far, except ESPN’s Monday Night Football. According to Spike officials, only seven series in all of television this fall season have attracted more men of that age group, even though The Ultimate Fighter is now in its 10th campaign.
Viewership peaked with 6.1 million watchers in the 9:45 p.m. quarter hour for the Slice- Nelson bout, which now ranks at the network’s top UFC telecast. The previous mark was 5.9 million viewers for Rampage Jackson-Dan Henderson fight at UFC 75 in September, 2007.
An encore at 11 p.m. garnered 1.5 million viewers, bringing the combined audience for the telecasts to 6.8 million."

Sento, you think it’s only Kimbo’s persona?
In other words, if he’d been a average built lightweight fighter, the effect would be the same?

One myth that’s been dispelled totally in my eyes is that of the casual MMA fan being boorish, white and racist.

Hmmm, has it though?

Racism is a funny thing, and doesn’t always mean that a person hates people of a certain ethnic group. It could also mean that they think that all black people are ebonics talking heavily muscled thugs with gold teeth who love to get into fights. They may cheer these people on in the ring, but still be completely racist.

That may be so. However: The argument in this forum was that noone tunes in to watch black fighters as much as they do whites and that blacks in MMA don’t get recognition specifically because of them being racist. This TUF season has an almost entirely black set of protagonists, and people are watching. Kimbo, Rampage, Rashad, Jones.[/quote]

Who doesn’t tune in to watch Anderson Silva, Rampage, or Rashad fight? Or how about Jon Jones, or Anthony Johnson (both exciting relative newcomers with tons of potential). I don’t think that the argument holds much water. When it comes down to it, people want to see skilled fighters, I highly doubt that they really care what color their skin is. It just so happens that the majority of MMA fighters are not black, so they get less face time as a group.

27

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Guys, two more examples the “Schwarzenegger effect” is very real.

Tim Sylvia was the most hated MMA champ ever.
Let’s see:
Arms: nope
Chest: nope
Abs:nope, although he had some nice flabs
Seems the “Schwarzenegger effect” has also a dark twin, the “Sylvia effect”

No denying that Silvia is an ugly sum bitch, but the hate for him was also largely due to him being a very awkward, not entertaining fighter to watch.

Who was THE cashcow in TUF? (Hint:
Some guys even wrote in a thread that’s somewhere in this forum that “he is the most in shape guy by far”.)
Was he even a good figher?
Him aside, were the fights and the show remotely watchable?

Forrest? Rashad? Diego maybe? Can’t really think of anyone who has had more of an effect in the UFC than those 3.

Wait, are you talking about Kimbo?[/quote]

ding, ding, ding!

28

I shit on this thread.

29

Looks like a new OMFighter joins the korps!

Welcome Mariusz P!

30

[quote]Valor wrote:
I shit on this thread.[/quote]

You seem to be good at that.

31

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Who doesn’t tune in to watch Anderson Silva, Rampage, or Rashad fight? Or how about Jon Jones, or Anthony Johnson (both exciting relative newcomers with tons of potential). I don’t think that the argument holds much water. When it comes down to it, people want to see skilled fighters, I highly doubt that they really care what color their skin is. It just so happens that the majority of MMA fighters are not black, so they get less face time as a group.[/quote]

First off, I really like to see skilled fighters. Also, I’d wish it was really like that, I’d wish people would actually watch combat sports and see the skill, respect all the work and discipline it took to get there.

Still, unfortunately, I’m under the impression that what people actually crave is overly violent, unskilled brawlers. To me it seems that guys like Pudzian have a higher potential for becoming crowd-pleasers than guys like Anderson Silva or maybe Glaube Feitosa, when it comes to K1.

There’s more and more freaks like Bob Sapp, Hong Man Choi, Mariusz Pudzianowski (whom I value as a strongman, just not as a fighter) and so on. For me, all of this is getting ridiculous, just like the film “Mad Max 3”, … basically, the fights that draw the most attention are those where two drugged, jacked up mutants (looking forward to being bashed for saying something about steroids here) with little technique are put into a cage and hounded agaisnt each other.

Am I the only one under that impression?

32

[quote]FirestormWarrior wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Who doesn’t tune in to watch Anderson Silva, Rampage, or Rashad fight? Or how about Jon Jones, or Anthony Johnson (both exciting relative newcomers with tons of potential). I don’t think that the argument holds much water. When it comes down to it, people want to see skilled fighters, I highly doubt that they really care what color their skin is. It just so happens that the majority of MMA fighters are not black, so they get less face time as a group.[/quote]

First off, I really like to see skilled fighters. Also, I’d wish it was really like that, I’d wish people would actually watch combat sports and see the skill, respect all the work and discipline it took to get there.

Still, unfortunately, I’m under the impression that what people actually crave is overly violent, unskilled brawlers. To me it seems that guys like Pudzian have a higher potential for becoming crowd-pleasers than guys like Anderson Silva or maybe Glaube Feitosa, when it comes to K1.

There’s more and more freaks like Bob Sapp, Hong Man Choi, Mariusz Pudzianowski (whom I value as a strongman, just not as a fighter) and so on. For me, all of this is getting ridiculous, just like the film “Mad Max 3”, … basically, the fights that draw the most attention are those where two drugged, jacked up mutants (looking forward to being bashed for saying something about steroids here) with little technique are put into a cage and hounded agaisnt each other.

Am I the only one under that impression?[/quote]

I think there is a thread of truth to what you (and Schwatz) are saying. There are a lot of uneducated MMA fans out there who don’t understand the technical aspects of fighting and think that for instance any ground work is just “rolling around on the ground”. For those fans I’d agree that they basically just want to see freak shows like what you are describing.

Still, I think that there is also a fairly large educated MMA fan base which does understand the technical aspects of MMA and wants to see skilled fighters more than freak shows. They may enjoy watching some fighters more than others (due to stylistic preferences), but they can still appreciate the skill possessed by those fighters who they might not enjoy watching as much.

33

Yeah I don’t think so man…hell even the guys I know who ALL watch MMA fights they don’t really care. It’s only guys who train who want to see skilled fights it seems like.

That’s the thing as well…a guy like Pudz…well who cares how skilled a fighter is…if ppl see someone that big and strong they automatically think he will win and crush anybody.

34

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Yeah I don’t think so man…hell even the guys I know who ALL watch MMA fights they don’t really care. It’s only guys who train who want to see skilled fights it seems like.

That’s the thing as well…a guy like Pudz…well who cares how skilled a fighter is…if ppl see someone that big and strong they automatically think he will win and crush anybody.

[/quote]

I agree, and following up on your last statement, if the HUGE dude loses to some smallish, fat guy, all the better for a freak show outcome. I think this analysis does carry some weight with mainstream viewers and even the hardcore guys to an extent. while I’m not really concerned with the aesthetic value of one’s appearance, astonishing displays of strength and speed are always interesting…when marquardt picked up leites and piledrived (piledrove?) him into the ground during the last 10 seconds of an action packed fight, I was out of my seat screaming. Spectacular.

35

[quote]slimjim wrote:

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Yeah I don’t think so man…hell even the guys I know who ALL watch MMA fights they don’t really care. It’s only guys who train who want to see skilled fights it seems like.

That’s the thing as well…a guy like Pudz…well who cares how skilled a fighter is…if ppl see someone that big and strong they automatically think he will win and crush anybody.

[/quote]

I agree, and following up on your last statement, if the HUGE dude loses to some smallish, fat guy, all the better for a freak show outcome. I think this analysis does carry some weight with mainstream viewers and even the hardcore guys to an extent. while I’m not really concerned with the aesthetic value of one’s appearance, astonishing displays of strength and speed are always interesting…when marquardt picked up leites and piledrived (piledrove?) him into the ground during the last 10 seconds of an action packed fight, I was out of my seat screaming. Spectacular.[/quote]

Yeah, that was a sick slam.

I’m also not arguing that the uneducated fans don’t make up the majority of MMA fans these days (sad as it may be). I guess I just hang out with a lot of educated (many training(ed) either presently or formely) fans so I might have a slightly skewed perspective on that ratio.

Nor am I arguing that impressive displays of physicality/athleticism aren’t entertaining or enjoyable even to educated fans. But there’s a difference between an impressively athletic skilled fight(er) and just two big strong guys standing toe to toe and swinging for the fences (again, at least when it comes to educated fans).

36

Intelligent MMA-related discussion on a web forum? Shocking!

On the opposite end of the “Schwarzenegger-effect,” you have a guy like Sean Sherk. Here’s a guy who’s more than accomplished, holds a 33-4-1 record with losses coming from the likes of BJ Penn and St Pierre, and is so ripped for a fighter he’s called “The Muscle Shark.” He has everything he needs for marketability; the look, the skill and the experience. Yet despite having held the lightweight championship, he barely gets more than a puzzled look when you bring him up to Chuck Liddell or Kimbo fans. Hell, even Florian fans, who he beat for the belt!

Not to mention he gets shit on with steroid allegations but at the same time, Dana White and UFC parade Lesnar around like a god.

37

Thanks for chiming in.

The muscle shark cannot reap the benefits of the Schwarzenegger effect, simply because of his height.

Being tall goes hand in hand with power, charisma, attraction.
If you’re ripped and strong but not even of average height, you lack the necessary ingrediants for sufficient attention.
Showwrestlers (I don’t know a better word) always lie about their height, as do some actors (guess which ones).

38

This fight screamed BOB SAPP in you face: Pudzianowski fought a legit japanese guy - for two rounds like an amateur, gassing hard after 2 minutes but literally holding unto his razor thin (takedown) lead with every fiber of his realisticlly estimated 100lbs muscle weight advantage.

The John Woo-slomo haymakers, the aggression, the tendency to push rather then explode… I think some japanese PR-teams are already busy coming up with sketches that involve a polish neanderthal and a bunch of panties.

Now if Tim Sylvia will be so kind as to skip his training and take a dive for 50K, Poland will have it’s first international superstar through a Schwarzenegger-Effect.

39

Guys this goes back to UFC 1. Anybody now a days still remember good ol’ Kenny Shamrock? The announcers used to blow him every time he was about to fight “Ohhhh looka Kenny’s massive pecs and movie star looks!”.

40

Um . . . didn’t Badr Hari just whoop Overeem in K1 a few months ago?

[quote]Fiction wrote:
There are plenty of muscular fighters that no one gives a fuck about. The reason I give a fuck about Overeem is that he is a monster who beat the fuck out of Badr Hari and Peter Aerts. The reason I give a fuck about Brock Lesnar was a phenomenal collegiate wrestler and obviously has the power to level people.

I care about Pudz because he is a beast and a badass, but I am really more interested in him as a freakshow.[/quote]