[quote]BSrunner wrote:
When the Navy Seals successfully save the hostage, Obama gets little to no credit. Yet if the mission were to have fail, I can guarantee you that Obama would have received all of the blame in the world. Interesting?[/quote]
sounds like the last 8 years huh?
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
BSrunner wrote:
When the Navy Seals successfully save the hostage, Obama gets little to no credit. Yet if the mission were to have fail, I can guarantee you that Obama would have received all of the blame in the world. Interesting?
sounds like the last 8 years huh?[/quote]
I think that’s what people on every side of the political spectrum feel when their opponents say shit about them. It’s the trap of leadership.
I’m not going to go into how… well, you know, pirates actually attacked Americans in the latest in a series of attacks on unarmed commercial shipping… which differs monumentally from starting a war cause your gut says so.
You know what pisses me off? A bunch of assholes with zero insight on the conditions of the hijack acting like they know more than the trained professionals. That, and stupid attacks on Obama as if those sailors were political prisoners or something. These are pirates trying to make a quick buck by looting ships or holding them for ransom. And everybody knows the drill: If it’s somebody important, you pay. If not, you wait it out and engage when you get a shot.
Don’t get me wrong. Obama is a gaping asshole, but not nearly as disgusting as the ones using this event to throw cheap shots.
“Act like you’ve got some Goddamn sense, people!”
Lixy,
Without completely sidetracking the thread.
Tell me/us why you think Obama is “a gaping asshole?” What is it about him that you find so objectionable?
[quote]sherekahn wrote:
Lixy,
Without completely sidetracking the thread.
Tell me/us why you think Obama is “a gaping asshole?” What is it about him that you find so objectionable?
[/quote]
He’s American. Unfortunately that’s enough for Lixy.
[quote]lixy wrote:
You know what pisses me off? A bunch of assholes with zero insight on the conditions of the hijack acting like they know more than the trained professionals. That, and stupid attacks on Obama as if those sailors were political prisoners or something. These are pirates trying to make a quick buck by looting ships or holding them for ransom. And everybody knows the drill: If it’s somebody important, you pay. If not, you wait it out and engage when you get a shot.
Don’t get me wrong. Obama is a gaping asshole, but not nearly as disgusting as the ones using this event to throw cheap shots.
“Act like you’ve got some Goddamn sense, people!”[/quote]
Because we aren’t experts, we aren’t allowed to discuss the topic? Seriously? who do you think you are?
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
BSrunner wrote:
When the Navy Seals successfully save the hostage, Obama gets little to no credit. Yet if the mission were to have fail, I can guarantee you that Obama would have received all of the blame in the world. Interesting?
sounds like the last 8 years huh?[/quote]
Haha, great point man.
[quote]BSrunner wrote:
lixy wrote:
You know what pisses me off? A bunch of assholes with zero insight on the conditions of the hijack acting like they know more than the trained professionals. That, and stupid attacks on Obama as if those sailors were political prisoners or something. These are pirates trying to make a quick buck by looting ships or holding them for ransom. And everybody knows the drill: If it’s somebody important, you pay. If not, you wait it out and engage when you get a shot.
Don’t get me wrong. Obama is a gaping asshole, but not nearly as disgusting as the ones using this event to throw cheap shots.
“Act like you’ve got some Goddamn sense, people!”
Because we aren’t experts, we aren’t allowed to discuss the topic? Seriously? who do you think you are?
[/quote]
are you that dense?
[quote]sherekahn wrote:
Lixy,
Without completely sidetracking the thread.
Tell me/us why you think Obama is “a gaping asshole?” What is it about him that you find so objectionable? [/quote]
He’s a lying power-hungry scumbag, with no more integrity than a toaster. He wouldn’t know what a principle is if it hit him in the face.
The man is lawyer turned politician. What else do you need to know?
[quote]sherekahn wrote:
Lixy,
Without completely sidetracking the thread.
Tell me/us why you think Obama is “a gaping asshole?” What is it about him that you find so objectionable? [/quote]
He’s a lying power-hungry scumbag, with no more integrity than a toaster. He wouldn’t know what a principle is if it hit him in the face.
The man is a lawyer turned politician. What else do you need to know?
[quote]BSrunner wrote:
hedo wrote:
Good work Navy.
And the lack of acknowledgment to the White House, Barack Obama, or any of the people you were yelling at earlier (The White House, Barack Obama) is extremely telling.
[edit: Not only directed at hedo, but to everyone who implied the leadership’s lack of conviction and work to saving the hostage][/quote]
Which pirate did Obama shoot? I missed that in the news report.
I don’t think allowing the Navy to do it’s job makes Obama any less of a pussy. He still has a lot of issues to deal with and foreign adversaries are lining up to test him because of his perceived weakness. That is due to his character and statements he has made.
I expected him to pay a ransom or make it a LE issue like his mentor Billy. Not telling the shooters to hold their fire is a step in the right direction but it will take a lot more then NOT telling the Seals to do their job to make a reputation as a leader.
Killing Pirates is hardly a ballsy call. The fact that he sanctioned it is out of character for him which is many are pleasantly suprised. Now if he attacked the pirate strongholds and mother ships I would be impressed.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
<<< Seems you were too focused on your hate of Obama.
I decided to suspend judgement until we saw how it would play out. The best info right now (from the Navy) is that Obama gave a standing order on Friday leaving those whose job it is to handle these things the discretion to use whatever force may be necessary to resolve this with an unharmed US captain.
That is exactly the right thing to do. I cannot stand Obama, but it is not credible to attempt to view this situation as anything other than a success with his having acted appropriately.
What we do with this captured clown now may be another story, we’ll see, but my hat is off to him in this instance. It couldn’t have been handled better. I even think he did the right thing not speaking publicly about it beforehand, both politically and tactically.
He has utterly no clue what to do with a situation like this and had nothing to gain for anybody by trying to pretend he did. He left it to the experts and can now rightfully claim it as a victory for the United States and by political extension himself.
Well played.
I hope he takes a strong stand against this type of behavior on the part of pirates. It’s a difficult problem given our history with Somalia… not so simple as sending warships to Tripoli anymore.
One question, maybe for those who know more about naval situations than I- why aren’t the crews on these ships armed? From what I understand the guys who are on these ships are of all nationalities and backgrounds, which leads me to assume that the nature of the people who embark on these trips is that of the same type that might enlist in the French Foreign Legion. Maybe arming them makes them as dangerous to each other as to pirates, but I’m just curious as to why they’re not. [/quote]
The right of free passage.
unarmed vessels a granted free passage. Armed vessels are not. Even small arms are considered armarments.
If a commercial vessel was armed it would be stopped for longer periods at each port and couldn’t turn a profit.
[quote]lixy wrote:
sherekahn wrote:
Lixy,
Without completely sidetracking the thread.
Tell me/us why you think Obama is “a gaping asshole?” What is it about him that you find so objectionable?
He’s a lying power-hungry scumbag, with no more integrity than a toaster. He wouldn’t know what a principle is if it hit him in the face.
The man is a lawyer turned politician. What else do you need to know?[/quote]
Whoa, I agree with lixy…I am getting dizzy.
I am very happy to have been wrong on this. What needed to happen did happen. The precedences obama has set gave me no expectation of the correct solution to the problem. I hope he knows that this will escalate the violence in that region against western vessels. So this wasn’t just a one time thing. We have here by committed military involvement in this strip of water.
If we had been more helpful to our Ethiopian allies, things would have never gotten this bad. All they wanted was aid and intelligence. They were the ones keeping al qaeda and the like out of Somalia, but could not afford to continue. Yes, this was the Bush administration’s fault. All this very generous spending practices of the obama administration needs to also assist countries like Ethiopia who was doing our bidding but getting little help.
I hope obama proves me wrong more often.
[quote]BSrunner wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
I now can say I’m proud our Navy did the job…apparantly, he jumped again, and this time we were ready!
Good job guys…finally!
He didn’t jump. The pirates were flaunting him on their deck at gun point, the White House (read: Barack Obama) gave the order, and Navy snipers took out the pirates.
I guess “BO” wasn’t reaching for his checkbook, eh?[/quote]
Doubtful. Military operations don’t happen like they do on “24”.
The president wasn’t monitoring the situation on a gun cam via his blackberry and giving the sniper the green light to fire when he thought it prudent to do so. That’s hollywood. Bye the way the lifeboat was completely covered. It doesn’t have a deck. It has a small hatch to enter it.
In reality my guess is he gave them the go ahead to plan an operation and to kill the pirates based on opportunity as long as the hostage could be saved. Why the Seals have an ROE that didn’t allow lethal force without further ado and needed presidential approval seems a little odd to me but is another matter. Perhaps Axelrod/Obama wanted to check the latest public opinion polls before making the call.
Lixy,
I never expected it but we seem to see
eye to eye on Obama.
In this instance, keeping a low profile himself and letting the SEALs do their job was, in my estimation, the right call. Like
Pat, I hope I am wrong more often. Just read the news and it seems the pirates are vowing revenge. I didn’t realize they were such a closely knit group. Am still anxious to see how the captured pirate’s
plight in court turns out.
From everything I’ve heard things were handled pretty damn well by everyone involved. It would have come across as self-serving and unnecessarily inflammatory if Obama had taken a higher profile approach, imo.
There’s a lot to be said for letting the pros do their job and not trying to make political points out of the confrontation. Trouble is we need an armada of sharpshooter out there to keep this from spiraling out of control, and that seems logistically impossible.
Let me say also that I appreciate the
opinions of those I disagree with. Most
people probably wouldn’t think that you’d find such well informed, articulate people
on a bodybuilding site. I do like to get
diverse views on things and you guys make
me look at the issues from different angles.
I am being serious.
[quote]pat wrote:
lixy wrote:
sherekahn wrote:
Lixy,
Without completely sidetracking the thread.
Tell me/us why you think Obama is “a gaping asshole?” What is it about him that you find so objectionable?
He’s a lying power-hungry scumbag, with no more integrity than a toaster. He wouldn’t know what a principle is if it hit him in the face.
The man is a lawyer turned politician. What else do you need to know?
Whoa, I agree with lixy…I am getting dizzy. [/quote]
I must have woke up in a parallel universe. Me too.
The bottom line here is that he took the one and only acceptable action possible for any president of any party in this circumstance and he (They, that’s a guarantee) played it very wisely from a political perspective by knowing that in the hands of some very able pepole this would get resolved.
He said nothing and let the cacophony of criticism grow culminating in a good outcome at which time that outcome itself silences his critics without his having to say a word. Very sharp.
As far as the executive/CIC role he played? Ronald Reagan would have done the same thing. Green light the operation at the tactical discretion of those best suited to get the job done.
Fact is it was an easy decision, but having said that it’s more than I expected from him. I figured he would grovel before the UN and other nations begging for another meaningless coalition and permission to act. He did not do that and in fact quietly told them all to kiss off and authorized unilateral action.
Why? Because now, being faced with a situation occurring outside a classroom or cocktail party he had the good sense to see that if Captain Phillips was coming home in one piece and if he wanted to avoid international embarrassment and domestic scorn WE would have to do it whether anybody else liked it or not.
What a concept.
[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
BSrunner wrote:
lixy wrote:
You know what pisses me off? A bunch of assholes with zero insight on the conditions of the hijack acting like they know more than the trained professionals.
[/quote]
How am I dense? Did you not say that?