You can get on T-Nation forums… but not cnn.com?
[quote]sherekahn wrote:
I am mate on a commercial vessel in the South China Sea right now, near the Malacca
Straits which was one of the areas with highest pirate activity until recently.
We have intermittent access to the internet
so I was a bit in the dark on the situation.
Shouldn’t have been shooting off my mouth.
My reference to the Gitmo situation was actually based on an article I read yesterday which was sympathetic to Obama’s
plight in dealing with the aftermath of Gitmo. If you go back and survey the entire
detainee situation (not just in Gitmo but also scenarios like the one in Afghanistan
in the early days after 9/11)it really does seem like an exercise in futility dealing with these prisoners.[/quote]
Damn…I take it you’re not a big believer in karma. Just saying. Remember,that the French operation resulted in a civilian dying.
But,I see where you’re coming from about Gitmo…but I don’t see how it applies here…unless you take into account the numerous other pirates who have been taken into custody recently.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
<<< Seems you were too focused on your hate of Obama.[/quote]
I decided to suspend judgement until we saw how it would play out. The best info right now (from the Navy) is that Obama gave a standing order on Friday leaving those whose job it is to handle these things the discretion to use whatever force may be necessary to resolve this with an unharmed US captain.
That is exactly the right thing to do. I cannot stand Obama, but it is not credible to attempt to view this situation as anything other than a success with his having acted appropriately.
What we do with this captured clown now may be another story, we’ll see, but my hat is off to him in this instance. It couldn’t have been handled better. I even think he did the right thing not speaking publicly about it beforehand, both politically and tactically.
He has utterly no clue what to do with a situation like this and had nothing to gain for anybody by trying to pretend he did. He left it to the experts and can now rightfully claim it as a victory for the United States and by political extension himself.
Well played.
Sherekahn,you ever run into the Lagoon Company??
Did anyone else pick up on the correlation between the ICU losing power and the piracy increase?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
<<< Seems you were too focused on your hate of Obama.
I decided to suspend judgement until we saw how it would play out. The best info right now (from the Navy) is that Obama gave a standing order on Friday leaving those whose job it is to handle these things the discretion to use whatever force may be necessary to resolve this with an unharmed US captain.
That is exactly the right thing to do. I cannot stand Obama, but it is not credible to attempt to view this situation as anything other than a success with his having acted appropriately.
What we do with this captured clown now may be another story, we’ll see, but my hat is off to him in this instance. It couldn’t have been handled better. I even think he did the right thing not speaking publicly about it beforehand, both politically and tactically.
He has utterly no clue what to do with a situation like this and had nothing to gain for anybody by trying to pretend he did. He left it to the experts and can now rightfully claim it as a victory for the United States and by political extension himself.
Well played.[/quote]
I applaud your suspension of judgment…as I expect it from you anyways. It was fair to call out Obama to step up to the plate in this situation. But to preemptively call Obama a coward and imply that he is catering to the pirates…etc. is pretty disgusting in my opinion. How dangerous is it to expect the worse for our country and from our president??
After all,the rest of the world already sees us as a weakening superpower. A people’s lack of faith shows defeat…and weakness…is this the image we want to give to rest of the world??
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
<<< Seems you were too focused on your hate of Obama.
I decided to suspend judgement until we saw how it would play out. The best info right now (from the Navy) is that Obama gave a standing order on Friday leaving those whose job it is to handle these things the discretion to use whatever force may be necessary to resolve this with an unharmed US captain.
That is exactly the right thing to do. I cannot stand Obama, but it is not credible to attempt to view this situation as anything other than a success with his having acted appropriately.
What we do with this captured clown now may be another story, we’ll see, but my hat is off to him in this instance. It couldn’t have been handled better. I even think he did the right thing not speaking publicly about it beforehand, both politically and tactically.
He has utterly no clue what to do with a situation like this and had nothing to gain for anybody by trying to pretend he did. He left it to the experts and can now rightfully claim it as a victory for the United States and by political extension himself.
Well played.[/quote]
I hope he takes a strong stand against this type of behavior on the part of pirates. It’s a difficult problem given our history with Somalia… not so simple as sending warships to Tripoli anymore.
One question, maybe for those who know more about naval situations than I- why aren’t the crews on these ships armed? From what I understand the guys who are on these ships are of all nationalities and backgrounds, which leads me to assume that the nature of the people who embark on these trips is that of the same type that might enlist in the French Foreign Legion. Maybe arming them makes them as dangerous to each other as to pirates, but I’m just curious as to why they’re not.
Will try to respond to everyone at once before I lose the signal again.
For a few hrs a day, I have a choice of CNN or T Nation. I picked T nation. Not familiar with Lagoon Company.
It is a problem that we’re not armed. The only place I’ve been where there were arms on board was Israel. Others probably can name other exceptions but that’s the only one I’ve experienced. Thought we were going to be taken hostage in West Africa once but got away.
No, not a big believer in karma. I had reference to the young CIA officer from Alabama who was killed in the early days of Afghanistan when the prisoners turned the tables on their captors.
And, while I am not a fan of Obama, he apparently played this one right by letting the professionals deal with it. Also, I
mentioned an article I read yesterday con-
cerning the problems he’s having with the Gitmo situation. Wish I could give you a link but try the archives for Real Clear Politics for the last couple of days. You can’t miss it. Holder is pointing out that
it’s not as simple as it looks to deal with these guys. France agreed to take one and Austria says, “Since they’re not dangerous,
why not leave them in the US?” Then there’s the Chinese detainees."
If this situation continues on it’s present course, at some point US soldiers are going to become hesitant to take prisoners. We can moralize all we like but the guy who is capturing them today may decide he doesn’t want to guard them tomorrow.
The article was A Judicial Decision that Plagues Obama by Stuart Taylor, National Journal.
Doesn’t bash either Bush or Obama as I recall, just states some of the complications in dealing with these detainees.
We are somwhat like those who join the fremch Foreign Legion, I suppose and that
is exactly why we aren’t allowed to be armed.
The article I was trying to recall was A
Judicial Decision that Plagues Obama by
Stuart Taylor. Seemed pretty neutral to me, not bashing Bush or Obama just pointing out
how complicated this scenario is.
Edit: French Foreign Legion
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
<<< Seems you were too focused on your hate of Obama.
I decided to suspend judgement until we saw how it would play out. The best info right now (from the Navy) is that Obama gave a standing order on Friday leaving those whose job it is to handle these things the discretion to use whatever force may be necessary to resolve this with an unharmed US captain.
That is exactly the right thing to do. I cannot stand Obama, but it is not credible to attempt to view this situation as anything other than a success with his having acted appropriately.
What we do with this captured clown now may be another story, we’ll see, but my hat is off to him in this instance. It couldn’t have been handled better. I even think he did the right thing not speaking publicly about it beforehand, both politically and tactically.
He has utterly no clue what to do with a situation like this and had nothing to gain for anybody by trying to pretend he did. He left it to the experts and can now rightfully claim it as a victory for the United States and by political extension himself.
Well played.[/quote]
My thoughts also.
Yeah, let’s give credit where credit is due.
Speaking of which, if he can work a miracle
and make my 401k come back I might vote
for him next time.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
PB-Crawl wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
At least the crew and captain still have some American PRIDE and a fighting sprit against tyranny. How let down do you think he felt as we nothing as he risked his life trying to escape??
not to support the current inaction we have atm which is terrible.
in the navy’s defense. the captain jumped into the water at midnight and returned to the boat after they started shooting at him. not because we did nothing. the whole situation happened in minutes, you can not move a destroyer into action that fast.
they did not expect him to be jumping.
also, these dudes have nothing to lose, they executed a french hostage they had when the french moved in with force.
you can assume the navy does not want to repeat this. no one should.
Well if the Navy had orders, they followed them…it was to stand down.
It matters not that it was midnight nor that it was unexpected. The Navy should be EXPECTING the unexpected.
We are a castrated military now, and it’s very evident. 4 navy seals could have gutted these guys in 5 seconds without a sound.
[/quote]
in all seriousness how would the navy prepare for a guy unexpectedly jumping over board and being in the water for a matter of seconds?
you cant have a boat or chopper sitting close enough to pluck the guy in less than 30 seconds becuase the pirates are known to be heavily armed and carry rpgs ect.
stop playing video games because its pretty apparent that its warped your mind in how military/hostage situations take place. Rambo is not real.
our military is not castrated, overwhelmed and over extended? maybe, not castrated, nice try.
lol you guys are ALREADY reeling and making up more shit about this?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/12/official-sea-captain-faced-imminent-danger/
"President Obama twice authorized the military to rescue a U.S. captain held by Somali pirates and whose life appeared to be at risk.
A senior administration official said the president’s order authorized force for a group of military assets that arrived at the scene late last week. When more resources arrived, Obama added them to a roster of military personnel allowed to engage militarily with the Somali pirates.
Obama also praised the U.S. military and the other departments and agencies for their efforts."
SEALS deserve the credit for a getting our men back.
Obama gets some credit for not doing anything dumb and letting our armed forces do what they needed to do.
[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
PB-Crawl wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
At least the crew and captain still have some American PRIDE and a fighting sprit against tyranny. How let down do you think he felt as we nothing as he risked his life trying to escape??
not to support the current inaction we have atm which is terrible.
in the navy’s defense. the captain jumped into the water at midnight and returned to the boat after they started shooting at him. not because we did nothing. the whole situation happened in minutes, you can not move a destroyer into action that fast.
they did not expect him to be jumping.
also, these dudes have nothing to lose, they executed a french hostage they had when the french moved in with force.
you can assume the navy does not want to repeat this. no one should.
Well if the Navy had orders, they followed them…it was to stand down.
It matters not that it was midnight nor that it was unexpected. The Navy should be EXPECTING the unexpected.
We are a castrated military now, and it’s very evident. 4 navy seals could have gutted these guys in 5 seconds without a sound.
in all seriousness how would the navy prepare for a guy unexpectedly jumping over board and being in the water for a matter of seconds?
you cant have a boat or chopper sitting close enough to pluck the guy in less than 30 seconds becuase the pirates are known to be heavily armed and carry rpgs ect.
stop playing video games because its pretty apparent that its warped your mind in how military/hostage situations take place. Rambo is not real.
our military is not castrated, overwhelmed and over extended? maybe, not castrated, nice try.
lol you guys are ALREADY reeling and making up more shit about this?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/12/official-sea-captain-faced-imminent-danger/
"President Obama twice authorized the military to rescue a U.S. captain held by Somali pirates and whose life appeared to be at risk.
A senior administration official said the president’s order authorized force for a group of military assets that arrived at the scene late last week. When more resources arrived, Obama added them to a roster of military personnel allowed to engage militarily with the Somali pirates.
Obama also praised the U.S. military and the other departments and agencies for their efforts."
SEALS deserve the credit for a getting our men back.
Obama gets some credit for not doing anything dumb and letting our armed forces do what they needed to do.[/quote]
First of all, the fact that you are quoting foxnews instantly casts doubt on whatever you say afterwards. These are the same guys that accused Obama of performing a “terrorist fist bump” with Michelle Obama after a speech.
Even though that article severely downplays Obama’s role in the issue, you should realize that it is the same role that any other president would have played in this mission. Bush would have listened to his advisors, agreed to allow the closest special ops unit to fire at will, and stepped aside. No matter the amount of military experience the acting commander in chief had, there would have been little more they could do outside of order missile strikes on Somalia.
When the Navy Seals successfully save the hostage, Obama gets little to no credit. Yet if the mission were to have fail, I can guarantee you that Obama would have received all of the blame in the world. Interesting?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
We are a castrated military now, and it’s very evident. 4 navy seals could have gutted these guys in 5 seconds without a sound.
How many seconds you think it took smartass?[/quote]
I give credit where it is due. The job was done. I’ll eat the crow. My point was that our leader was totally ABSENT through all of this.
I applaud Obama if he gave the word to go. Something was done right.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Did anyone else pick up on the correlation between the ICU losing power and the piracy increase?[/quote]
Or was it a correlation between Ethopia pulling it’s troops out and the piracy increase?
[quote]BSrunner wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
I now can say I’m proud our Navy did the job…apparantly, he jumped again, and this time we were ready!
Good job guys…finally!
He didn’t jump. The pirates were flaunting him on their deck at gun point, the White House (read: Barack Obama) gave the order, and Navy snipers took out the pirates.
I guess “BO” wasn’t reaching for his checkbook, eh?[/quote]
I’m actually impressed. I still disagree with most policy, but this was good in my opinion.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
We are a castrated military now, and it’s very evident. 4 navy seals could have gutted these guys in 5 seconds without a sound.
How many seconds you think it took smartass?
I give credit where it is due. The job was done. I’ll eat the crow. My point was that our leader was totally ABSENT through all of this.
I applaud Obama if he gave the word to go. Something was done right.
[/quote]
wrong again. strike three.
he had approved use of force for the military forces that arrived on scene late last week. As more forces arrived, he continued to approve their use of force.
the navy was assessing a situation where the captors are known to execute prisoners and are heavily armed, not something you jump into. things got hairy and the on scene commander used a quick decision.
the president can not do a whole lot in that situation, all he can really do is authorized or not authorize force and trust his navy commanders.
absent=/=quiet
now he just needs to quickly make a press release where he condemns this shit and guarantees to use more force to stop the pirates and actually do it.
and you need to stop this childish hatred. Youre muddying the waters for others actually making coherent and crucial criticisms of what the president is doing.
[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
We are a castrated military now, and it’s very evident. 4 navy seals could have gutted these guys in 5 seconds without a sound.
How many seconds you think it took smartass?
I give credit where it is due. The job was done. I’ll eat the crow. My point was that our leader was totally ABSENT through all of this.
I applaud Obama if he gave the word to go. Something was done right.
wrong again. strike three.
he had approved use of force for the military forces that arrived on scene last last week. As more forces arrived, he continued to approve their use of force.
the navy was assessing a situation where the captors are known to execute prisoners and are heavily armed, not something you jump into. things got hairy and the on scene commander used a quick decision.
the president can not do a whole lot in that situation, all he can really do is authorized or not authorize force and trust his navy commanders.
absent=/=quiet
now he just needs to quickly make a press release where he condemns this shit and guarantees to use more force to stop the pirates and actually do it.
and you need to stop this childish hatred. Youre muddying the waters for others actually making coherent and crucial criticisms of what the president is doing.[/quote]
I disagree with you. He can do plenty to let people know that we are taking measures instead of not addressing the country as he should. Total absence on the issue was my criticism.
Again…I stand corrected in my assumptions and predictions, and frankly I’m glad I was wrong on this one. Maybe we won’t be super-weaklings on the global stage.
I look forward to our official policy on piracy as are you.