[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
And you did this by relating a man not getting a job and the effectiveness of Affirmative Action in correcting this to some fool who is late to work and gets fired.
Yet you don’t see why someone might just take offense?
Might take offense at me? Why? Because my life experiences don’t count for jack? I’ve experienced far too many instances of black folk playing falling back on the racism card to even care anymore. Oh, and Affirmative Action is just the kind of crap that breeds my attitude.
The only argument that makes any sense is whether it is needed TODAY AND RIGHT NOW, not whether it was needed in the first place.
Are you saying you don’t agree?
What’s needed today isn’t affirmative action. What’s needed today is for people who stop making excuses.[/quote]
Let me get a clear understanding, are you saying you see the need for it in the past?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
And you did this by relating a man not getting a job and the effectiveness of Affirmative Action in correcting this to some fool who is late to work and gets fired.
Yet you don’t see why someone might just take offense?
Might take offense at me? Why? Because my life experiences don’t count for jack? I’ve experienced far too many instances of black folk playing falling back on the racism card to even care anymore. Oh, and Affirmative Action is just the kind of crap that breeds my attitude.
The only argument that makes any sense is whether it is needed TODAY AND RIGHT NOW, not whether it was needed in the first place.
Are you saying you don’t agree?
What’s needed today isn’t affirmative action. What’s needed today is for people who stop making excuses.
Let me get a clear understanding, are you saying you see the need for it in the past?[/quote]
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Obama’s pastor was his mentor, allegedly converted him to Christianity, presided at his wedding…[/quote]
Does that mean all the idiots who keep claiming he’s a muslim will finally get a clue?
You’re assuming that simply because the guy has been a strong presence in Obama’s life, that Obama will be unable to think clearly for himself about the various issues, or will ignore other advisers in favor of his pastor.
If Obama had defended and supported everything his pastor claims, I might see your point. But he’s on record as disagreeing with him on various issues even as he acknowledges a fondness for the man.
Are you yourself in perfect agreement with everyone who’s ever had an influence in your life?
Which bring me back to asking why people think Obama is just a puppet that’ll be unduly influenced by Wright.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
And you did this by relating a man not getting a job and the effectiveness of Affirmative Action in correcting this to some fool who is late to work and gets fired.
Yet you don’t see why someone might just take offense?
Might take offense at me? Why? Because my life experiences don’t count for jack? I’ve experienced far too many instances of black folk playing falling back on the racism card to even care anymore. Oh, and Affirmative Action is just the kind of crap that breeds my attitude.
The only argument that makes any sense is whether it is needed TODAY AND RIGHT NOW, not whether it was needed in the first place.
Are you saying you don’t agree?
What’s needed today isn’t affirmative action. What’s needed today is for people who stop making excuses.
Let me get a clear understanding, are you saying you see the need for it in the past?
None.[/quote]
So, what should have been done for the steady decline of the Black American family with extreme assistance from systemic racism?
What would have been as effective as Affirmative Action in destroying the “good 'ole boy network”?
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The real key here is that this will matter to the voters if Obama can’t separate himself from Wright.[/quote]
The question is whether he’ll manage to distance himself from Wright’s opinions in spite of the Republican spin machine doing all it can to keep the association alive and in the forefront of every media it can reach.
So, what should have been done for the steady decline of the Black American family with extreme assistance from systemic racism?
What would have been as effective as Affirmative Action in destroying the “good 'ole boy network”?[/quote]
Time. The same access to government money for education and small business loans. Keeping taxes and regulation far lower than today. Destorying the welfare system. Doing away with the War on Drugs. Etc.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m explaining why many of us white guys are bored senseless with the “way things were” routine.
Would you dare say the same about the Holocaust?
I can’t even begin to remember the last time a Jew even mentioned the Holocaust in front of me.
That isn’t what was asked.[/quote]
Yes, it was. I don’t get bombarded with the Holocaust.
You’re assuming that simply because the guy has been a strong presence in Obama’s life, that Obama will be unable to think clearly for himself about the various issues, or will ignore other advisers in favor of his pastor.
If Obama had defended and supported everything his pastor claims, I might see your point. But he’s on record as disagreeing with him on various issues even as he acknowledges a fondness for the man.
Are you yourself in perfect agreement with everyone who’s ever had an influence in your life?
Which bring me back to asking why people think Obama is just a puppet that’ll be unduly influenced by Wright.
[/quote]
This isn’t the point - the point is whether Obama exhibited bad judgment using this guy for an adviser.
The unanswered question is how much of a problem Obama thought Wright’s views were in and of themselves (not just as a future political problem for him) - and yes, I’m assuming he knew about them because of the super-specific answers he gave in denying he knew about them. He’s a lawyer, and he did not make a broad denial.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.[/quote]
Advancement? Affirmative Action and the welfare state has been destructive.
Edit: And even more destructive would be the types like Wright.
So, what should have been done for the steady decline of the Black American family with extreme assistance from systemic racism?
What would have been as effective as Affirmative Action in destroying the “good 'ole boy network”?
Time. The same access to government money for education and small business loans. Keeping taxes and regulation far lower than today. Destorying the welfare system. Doing away with the War on Drugs. Etc.[/quote]
LOL. So, you would be comfortable with it being 2008 and black Americans still getting paid less than whites in hopes of soemone eventually, out of the kindness of their hearts, finally deciding to hire them and pay them the same?
You think that Black Americans would feel like Americans when society as a whole was just watching it happen and doing nothing to put a stop to it?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Advancement? Affirmative Action and the welfare state has been destructive.[/quote]
If you can’t answer the question, then just say so.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
So, what should have been done for the steady decline of the Black American family with extreme assistance from systemic racism?
What would have been as effective as Affirmative Action in destroying the “good 'ole boy network”?
Time. The same access to government money for education and small business loans. Keeping taxes and regulation far lower than today. Destorying the welfare system. Doing away with the War on Drugs. Etc.
LOL. So, you would be comfortable with it being 2008 and black Americans still getting paid less than whites in hopes of soemone eventually, out of the kindness of their hearts, finally deciding to hire them and pay them the same?
You think that Black Americans would feel like Americans when society as a whole was just watching it happen and doing nothing to put a stop to it?
[/quote]
I think it would’ve been a hell of alot better than the destruction of the black family and community we see today.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
So, what should have been done for the steady decline of the Black American family with extreme assistance from systemic racism?
What would have been as effective as Affirmative Action in destroying the “good 'ole boy network”?
Time. The same access to government money for education and small business loans. Keeping taxes and regulation far lower than today. Destorying the welfare system. Doing away with the War on Drugs. Etc.
LOL. So, you would be comfortable with it being 2008 and black Americans still getting paid less than whites in hopes of soemone eventually, out of the kindness of their hearts, finally deciding to hire them and pay them the same?
You think that Black Americans would feel like Americans when society as a whole was just watching it happen and doing nothing to put a stop to it?
I think it would’ve been a hell of alot better than the destruction of the black family and community we see today.[/quote]
You think blacks are worse off in 2008 than they were in 1975?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Advancement? Affirmative Action and the welfare state has been destructive.
If you can’t answer the question, then just say so. [/quote]
I answered the question. I said racist AA has been more destructive than had it not existed. That wasn’t the question?