[quote]Malevolence wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
The Republicans right now are sitting back and letting the Dems do this to themselves.
As demonstrated by the Republicans on this board making a disproportionately big deal over the non-issue.[/quote]
Exactly. I don’t see anywhere near the number of threads on other candidates.
For people who claim they aren’t voting for him, they sure do focus on everything he says a lot.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.[/quote]
Yes. They should have gone unaided. The way to stop discriminating by race is to stop discriminating by race. I can’t see how affirmative action has done anything positive.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Advancement? Affirmative Action and the welfare state has been destructive.
If you can’t answer the question, then just say so.
I answered the question. I said racist AA has been more destructive than had it not existed. That wasn’t the question?[/quote]
Please, explain in at least some detail how you came to this conclusion.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
So, what should have been done for the steady decline of the Black American family with extreme assistance from systemic racism?
What would have been as effective as Affirmative Action in destroying the “good 'ole boy network”?
Time. The same access to government money for education and small business loans. Keeping taxes and regulation far lower than today. Destorying the welfare system. Doing away with the War on Drugs. Etc.
LOL. So, you would be comfortable with it being 2008 and black Americans still getting paid less than whites in hopes of soemone eventually, out of the kindness of their hearts, finally deciding to hire them and pay them the same?
You think that Black Americans would feel like Americans when society as a whole was just watching it happen and doing nothing to put a stop to it?
I think it would’ve been a hell of alot better than the destruction of the black family and community we see today.
You think blacks are worse off in 2008 than they were in 1975?
[/quote]
I think blacks are worse off than had AA and the welfare state not existed.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Yes. They should have gone unaided. The way to stop discriminating by race is to stop discriminating by race. I can’t see how affirmative action has done anything positive. [/quote]
But discrimination didn’t stop. That is WHY AA was instituted.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I think blacks are worse off than had AA and the welfare state not existed.[/quote]
Unless you are about to go into some spiel about how you traveled through a worm hole and watched an alternate universe and how they were better off by not having AA, then how the fuck did you arrive at this conclusion?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Advancement? Affirmative Action and the welfare state has been destructive.
If you can’t answer the question, then just say so.
I answered the question. I said racist AA has been more destructive than had it not existed. That wasn’t the question?
Please, explain in at least some detail how you came to this conclusion.[/quote]
Exactly what do you want explained? How dependency, going to schools one is not cut out for, the double standard of AA hasn’t been negative?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Advancement? Affirmative Action and the welfare state has been destructive.
If you can’t answer the question, then just say so.
I answered the question. I said racist AA has been more destructive than had it not existed. That wasn’t the question?
Please, explain in at least some detail how you came to this conclusion.
Exactly what do you explained? How dependency, going to schools one is not cut out for, the double standard of AA hasn’t been negative?[/quote]
Going to schools one isn’t cut out for? Wouldn’t that be evident by them not graduating? If they do graduate, then they were cut out for it, right?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I think blacks are worse off than had AA and the welfare state not existed.
Unless you are about to go into some spiel about how you traveled through a worm hole and watched an alternate universe and how they were better off by not having AA, then how the fuck did you arrive at this conclusion?[/quote]
How do you arrive at anything contrary to my conclusion? By the number of intact families dramatically increasing? Vast downturns in the amount of black crime? Oh yeah, AA and the welfare state has been a hit.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Advancement? Affirmative Action and the welfare state has been destructive.
If you can’t answer the question, then just say so.
I answered the question. I said racist AA has been more destructive than had it not existed. That wasn’t the question?
Please, explain in at least some detail how you came to this conclusion.
Exactly what do you explained? How dependency, going to schools one is not cut out for, the double standard of AA hasn’t been negative?
Going to schools one isn’t cut out for? Wouldn’t that be evident by them not graduating? If they do graduate, then they were cut out for it, right?[/quote]
Perhaps they shouldn’t have been accepted in the first place? Especially over someone else more qualified.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Yes. They should have gone unaided. The way to stop discriminating by race is to stop discriminating by race. I can’t see how affirmative action has done anything positive.
But discrimination didn’t stop. That is WHY AA was instituted.[/quote]
It hasn’t stopped for a good many other races of people either.
At the end of the day, business owners care about hiring people who will help them make money. They want good help, no matter the color of the person. Discrimination stops when a group of people are perceived to be good, problem-free workers. Generally, business owners perceive Mexicans this way now. Whites are generally looked upon as lazier with a sense of entitlement. Blacks more so.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The difference is one of the degree and nature of the associations. McCain received Hagee’s endorsement, and received Parsley’s endorsement. McCain met Parsley exactly once, at the rally in Ohio. I don’t think McCain has met Hagee more than once or twice. Obama received Farrakhan’s endorsement. I don’t know if he’s met with Farrakhan.[/quote]
My point exactly. McCain gets to “associate” with those dimwits because it’s understood that he doesn’t really share their ideas, he only wants their endorsements for political gains.
Let’s see… Obama had his pastor perform pastorly duties for him. So? Should he have attended a different church each week and outsourced his marriage, baptisms of his kids, etc. to India?
He’s also on record saying he doesn’t personally agree with all of Wright’s views.
I’m trying to objectively assess why I should think that Obama is being deceptive when he says that. I don’t see it.
[quote]BTW, w/r/t to Hagee, he apparently denies being anti-Catholic: http://www.jhm.org/ME2/Sites/dirmod.asp?sid=&type=gen&mod=Core+Pages&gid=47BEB58F9EF24337835DB74C0E0760D9&SiteID=4AC79C9B25B24DF3AF21C42311BE3921
[/quote]
Good for him. That’s beside my point though. Whatever controversy there was at McCain’s accepting his endorsement, was a rather minor affair. Very few people actually believe that McCain shares the views of either Hagee or Parsley.
But you’d heard about Wright before this flap?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I think blacks are worse off than had AA and the welfare state not existed.
Unless you are about to go into some spiel about how you traveled through a worm hole and watched an alternate universe and how they were better off by not having AA, then how the fuck did you arrive at this conclusion?
How do you arrive at anything contrary to my conclusion? By the number of intact families dramatically increasing? Vast downturns in the amount of black crime? Oh yeah, AA and the welfare state has been a hit.[/quote]
So, you are claiming that the average income of black households has not increased and there has been no increase in college education?
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
You mean the Clinton spin machine, right? The Republicans right now are sitting back and letting the Dems do this to themselves.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure Bill Kristol isn’t part of the Clinton spin machine.
He’s even added a disclaimer at top because he got his fact wrong. Again.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Advancement? Affirmative Action and the welfare state has been destructive.
If you can’t answer the question, then just say so.
I answered the question. I said racist AA has been more destructive than had it not existed. That wasn’t the question?
Please, explain in at least some detail how you came to this conclusion.
Exactly what do you explained? How dependency, going to schools one is not cut out for, the double standard of AA hasn’t been negative?
Going to schools one isn’t cut out for? Wouldn’t that be evident by them not graduating? If they do graduate, then they were cut out for it, right?
Perhaps they shouldn’t have been accepted in the first place? Especially over someone else more qualified. [/quote]
Perhaps someone else more qualified on paper was qualified because their parents were never denied jobs in the first place leading to an increased income for that individual to be raised with a great education and quality family time since mom didn’t work three jobs.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Yes. They should have gone unaided. The way to stop discriminating by race is to stop discriminating by race. I can’t see how affirmative action has done anything positive.
But discrimination didn’t stop. That is WHY AA was instituted.
It hasn’t stopped for a good many other races of people either.
At the end of the day, business owners care about hiring people who will help them make money. They want good help, no matter the color of the person. Discrimination stops when a group of people are perceived to be good, problem-free workers. Generally, business owners perceive Mexicans this way now. Whites are generally looked upon as lazier with a sense of entitlement. Blacks more so. [/quote]
Business in the early 70’s were not just focused on “good help”. They were focused on “white people who were good help”. The same went for many colleges and universities.
How old are you that you don’t know this?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I think blacks are worse off than had AA and the welfare state not existed.
Unless you are about to go into some spiel about how you traveled through a worm hole and watched an alternate universe and how they were better off by not having AA, then how the fuck did you arrive at this conclusion?
How do you arrive at anything contrary to my conclusion? By the number of intact families dramatically increasing? Vast downturns in the amount of black crime? Oh yeah, AA and the welfare state has been a hit.
So, you are claiming that the average income of black households has not increased and there has been no increase in college education?[/quote]
No. Where did I even come close to claiming that?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I think blacks are worse off than had AA and the welfare state not existed.
Unless you are about to go into some spiel about how you traveled through a worm hole and watched an alternate universe and how they were better off by not having AA, then how the fuck did you arrive at this conclusion?
How do you arrive at anything contrary to my conclusion? By the number of intact families dramatically increasing? Vast downturns in the amount of black crime? Oh yeah, AA and the welfare state has been a hit.[/quote]
From:Black Student College Graduation Rates Remain Low, But Modest Progress Begins to Show
and [quote]Graduation rates play an important role in measuring the success of affirmative action programs. Many opponents of affirmative action assert, often without even looking at the actual data, that black student graduation rates are damaged by race-sensitive admissions. It is critical to review the statistics to see if this is true. In this report we emphasize the graduation rates of black students at the nation’s highest-ranked colleges and universities. The reason is that almost always these are the institutions that have the strongest commitments to race-sensitive admissions.[/quote]
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…and Sloth, this was the question posed to PrCaldude
Right. So, is it your position that the grand scale second class citizenship of black Americans before Affirmative Action should have been unaided because mass racist acts leading to the decrease of advancement of those people are better than the “racist” act of helping those people?
He hasn’t answered so maybe you can.
Advancement? Affirmative Action and the welfare state has been destructive.
If you can’t answer the question, then just say so.
I answered the question. I said racist AA has been more destructive than had it not existed. That wasn’t the question?
Please, explain in at least some detail how you came to this conclusion.
Exactly what do you explained? How dependency, going to schools one is not cut out for, the double standard of AA hasn’t been negative?
Going to schools one isn’t cut out for? Wouldn’t that be evident by them not graduating? If they do graduate, then they were cut out for it, right?
Perhaps they shouldn’t have been accepted in the first place? Especially over someone else more qualified.
Perhaps someone else more qualified on paper was qualified because their parents were never denied jobs in the first place leading to an increased income for that individual to be raised with a great education and quality family time since mom didn’t work three jobs.[/quote]
But hey, sucks for the person more qualified, right? And THAT attitude is supposed to help race relations? And what about the less qualified when he flunks/drops out after going through an academic enviroment he was relatively less qualified for? What’s the rate for giving it another go?
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
The Republicans right now are sitting back and letting the Dems do this to themselves.
Malevolence wrote:
As demonstrated by the Republicans on this board making a disproportionately big deal over the non-issue.[/quote]
You think we have anything to do with the RNC or the McCain campaign? Give me a break. I’m popping my popcorn and enjoying this. There really shouldn’t be any way that the Republicans should have been able to hold on to the White House this cycle, but the Democrats are going to hand it to them on a platter.
BTW, I’m a registered Republican, but only because the Democrats don’t offer a good alternative for conservatives or libertarians.