Obama's Pastor

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]sherekahn wrote:
Actually, my wife and I are both part native American. Our ancestors can match horror stories with anybody but we don’t preach hatred for the white man and then expect people to vote for our candidate.[/quote]

I applaud you on that, here in Canada, we have many natives who hate whites and have a piss poor attitude in general, expecting goverment hand outs, I have noticed this is typically restricted to those who choose to live on reserves though.

I think for racism to cease everyone should be treated equal, no affirmative action, no hand outs, no lowered standards, no segregation, this stuff just fosters hatred and creates unproductive members of society.

122

Chinese: DRIVEN OUT: The Forgotten War Against Chinese Americans ; History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

Japanese: Internment of Japanese Americans - Wikipedia ; http://www.asianamericanmedia.org/jainternment/ww2/prewar.html

Jews: History of the Jews in the United States - Wikipedia

Latinos: We're Sorry

Irish: Anti-Irish sentiment - Wikipedia

Generally: Racism in the United States - Wikipedia

123

[quote]Joe84 wrote:
sherekahn wrote:
Does “No Irish need apply” ring a bell?

no, cause everyone knows only blacks are discriminated against. [/quote]

Don’t be a wise-ass! There are many levels of discrimination, and blacks - as a race - have historically suffered the most.

Of course, it doesn’t excuse any hate speech, but it puts the pastor’s words into perspective.

124

[quote]lixy wrote:
Joe84 wrote:
sherekahn wrote:
Does “No Irish need apply” ring a bell?

no, cause everyone knows only blacks are discriminated against.

Don’t be a wise-ass! There are many levels of discrimination, and blacks - as a race - have historically suffered the most.

Of course, it doesn’t excuse any hate speech, but it puts the pastor’s words into perspective.[/quote]

I don’t understand anyone trying to ignore this point or act like it is a minor issue.

I would put someone not getting a job in 1975 lower on the fucking list of atrocity than the slaughter of Jews by Nazis.

It is like their defense mechanism keeps them from admitting this.

125

Well, there you go. My ancestory is largely Irish , with a drop of Native American in the family tree (supposedly). I’m absolved of white guilt! Woohoo! It’s as if the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders.

126

For the record, I don’t think anyone should ever have been a slave, had to ride in the back of the bus or drink at a separate
water fountain. I don’t like to hurt anybody’s feelings in any way. The finest officer I ever served under was a black major in Vietnam.

But, put things in perspective, very few whites ever owned a slave. Why did poor
southerners fight for the Confederacy?
All wars tend to be a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight and the general was right: war really is hell.

I see why blacks have a problem forgetting
the discrimination they’ve been subjected
to but can you really expect whites to feel comfortable with Rev Wright’s sermons when
most whites have had little if anything to do with creating the situation?

127

[quote]Professor X wrote:
sherekahn wrote:
Actually, my wife and I are both part native American. Our ancestors can match horror stories with anybody but we don’t preach hatred for the white man and then expect people to vote for our candidate.

How recent was the last overthrow of sacred land? Does anyone in America even currently think about degrading Native Americans because of what they are? …[/quote]

American Indians have it more messed up than black people in todays society. They are also getting opportunity given to them that no one else is.

128

[quote]sherekahn wrote:
For the record, I don’t think anyone should ever have been a slave, had to ride in the back of the bus or drink at a separate
water fountain. I don’t like to hurt anybody’s feelings in any way. The finest officer I ever served under was a black major in Vietnam.

But, put things in perspective, very few whites ever owned a slave. Why did poor
southerners fight for the Confederacy?
All wars tend to be a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight and the general was right: war really is hell.

I see why blacks have a problem forgetting
the discrimination they’ve been subjected
to but can you really expect whites to feel comfortable with Rev Wright’s sermons when
most whites have had little if anything to do with creating the situation?[/quote]

While you or some other white person may have personally had little to do with the way things were that led to the Civil Rights movement and to Affirmative Action, why do whites in general act like no one and no institution holds any responsibility for it in spite of being in majority population?

Any time this discussion comes up, several white guys jump on the defensive and try to act like Chinese rail road workers are the exact same as slavery and centuries of disenfranchisement.

You can’t even get most to admit that blacks HAVE had it worse off than any other race in this country (save for the American Indian).

Why is that?

129

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, there you go. My ancestory is largely Irish , with a drop of Native American in the family tree (supposedly). I’m absolved of white guilt! Woohoo! It’s as if the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders. [/quote]

I bet you could drink me under the table.

130

[quote]pat wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, there you go. My ancestory is largely Irish , with a drop of Native American in the family tree (supposedly). I’m absolved of white guilt! Woohoo! It’s as if the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders.

I bet you could drink me under the table.[/quote]

That is a recipe for alcoholism if I ever saw one!

131

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
dk44 wrote:

All i said was that associations are important.

And they are very important. All the more important when the associations completely undermine the image you have been trying to sell.[/quote]

It’s not as if his pastor is his only association either. Anyone in politics has to forge ties far and wide to be able to round up enough support to get elected.

I’d be surprised if you could find a single successful politician who doesn’t have a few questionable “allies” in his rolodex.

The very nature of a democracy means that anyone who wants a realistic chance of being elected needs to court voters of all kinds and beliefs. That may look unprincipled or come off as pandering, but the very nature of our political systems make this reality inevitable. That’s why many of the more principled, uncompromising would-be politicians either never enter the race, or do but waste years being also-rans.

McCain has John Hagee and Rod Parsley as some of his “associations” and I don’t see much hackles being raised about them. Why does he get to enjoy support from religious nutcases and not Obama?

Why would the views of Obama’s pastor matter more than Hagee’s (Catholics are evil) or Parsley’s (we must go to war to eradicate Islam) matter for McCain? Why is it understood that McCain profits from the support of these people (and the wide audiences they can reach) but that Obama will be some kind of weak puppet that’ll get played?

McCain and Clinton get to be associated with shady, weird or even close-to-completely-nuts characters with little or no consequences (at least none that aren’t attributed to “meh, politicians…”), but Obama has his whole character being impugned based on his having a vociferous pastor at church? It’s a little odd, no?

132

I’d argue that the Native Americans got the shortest end of the stick by far.

Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs and Steel” also offers the perspective that the Native Americans had no immunity whatsoever which resulted in millions of deaths in North America alone. When Lewis and Clark traversed North America, they found entire villages completely empty.

Are whites glad this happened? Nope. But we must deal with the situation as it is, not as it was.

133

[quote]pookie wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
dk44 wrote:

All i said was that associations are important.

And they are very important. All the more important when the associations completely undermine the image you have been trying to sell.

It’s not as if his pastor is his only association either. Anyone in politics has to forge ties far and wide to be able to round up enough support to get elected.

I’d be surprised if you could find a single successful politician who doesn’t have a few questionable “allies” in his rolodex.

The very nature of a democracy means that anyone who wants a realistic chance of being elected needs to court voters of all kinds and beliefs. That may look unprincipled or come off as pandering, but the very nature of our political systems make this reality inevitable. That’s why many of the more principled, uncompromising would-be politicians either never enter the race, or do but waste years being also-rans.

McCain has John Hagee and Rod Parsley as some of his “associations” and I don’t see much hackles being raised about them. Why does he get to enjoy support from religious nutcases and not Obama?

Why would the views of Obama’s pastor matter more than Hagee’s (Catholics are evil) or Parsley’s (we must go to war to eradicate Islam) matter for McCain? Why is it understood that McCain profits from the support of these people (and the wide audiences they can reach) but that Obama will be some kind of weak puppet that’ll get played?

McCain and Clinton get to be associated with shady, weird or even close-to-completely-nuts characters with little or no consequences (at least none that aren’t attributed to “meh, politicians…”), but Obama has his whole character being impugned based on his having a vociferous pastor at church? It’s a little odd, no?

[/quote]

Great post.

134

[quote]Professor X wrote:
sherekahn wrote:
For the record, I don’t think anyone should ever have been a slave, had to ride in the back of the bus or drink at a separate
water fountain. I don’t like to hurt anybody’s feelings in any way. The finest officer I ever served under was a black major in Vietnam.

But, put things in perspective, very few whites ever owned a slave. Why did poor
southerners fight for the Confederacy?
All wars tend to be a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight and the general was right: war really is hell.

I see why blacks have a problem forgetting
the discrimination they’ve been subjected
to but can you really expect whites to feel comfortable with Rev Wright’s sermons when
most whites have had little if anything to do with creating the situation?

While you or some other white person may have personally had little to do with the way things were that led to the Civil Rights movement and to Affirmative Action, why do whites in general act like no one and no institution holds any responsibility for it in spite if being in majority population?

Any time this discussion comes up, several white guys jump on the defensive and try to act like Chinese rail road workers are the exact same as slavery and centuries of disenfranchisement.

You can’t even get most to admit that blacks HAVE had to worse off than any other race in this country (save for the American Indian).

Why is that?
[/quote]

Me personally. I’m tired of hearing the whining. Every time black co-workers, friends, etc., start going on about it, I roll my eyes and walk off. Throughout my life I’ve heard this same sad song, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and…well, you get the idea. Couple that with racist double standards (usually defended by playing the victim card), such a Affirmative Action, and it gets old.

135

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
pat wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, there you go. My ancestory is largely Irish , with a drop of Native American in the family tree (supposedly). I’m absolved of white guilt! Woohoo! It’s as if the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders.

I bet you could drink me under the table.

That is a recipe for alcoholism if I ever saw one![/quote]

Hah! Pat and Zap, I actually don’t drink, so I’m afraid I wouldn’t live up to expectations.

136

It’s not just Obama’s pastor that has a huge racial chip on his shoulder. It’s Obama himself:

137

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I’d argue that the Native Americans got the shortest end of the stick by far.

Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs and Steel” also offers the perspective that the Native Americans had no immunity whatsoever which resulted in millions of deaths in North America alone. When Lewis and Clark traversed North America, they found entire villages completely empty.

Are whites glad this happened? Nope. But we must deal with the situation as it is, not as it was.[/quote]

Gee, now that we have established a hierarchy of wronged races, how does you pointing out that Italians had trouble finding jobs in New York is equal to slavery make any sense?

138

[quote]sherekahn wrote:
I see why blacks have a problem forgetting
the discrimination they’ve been subjected
to but can you really expect whites to feel comfortable with Rev Wright’s sermons when
most whites have had little if anything to do with creating the situation?[/quote]

I find it interesting that the same people who claim to oppose PC talk are up in arms about that pastor’s speech.

Nobody’s telling you to “feel comfortable” or attend his sermons. Sue him for all I care. Just stop trying to sell the idea that the Irish had it as bad as black folks.

139

ProfessorX, I’m about to have to sign off
for the day. Be back same time tomorrow.
I really don’t have any explanation for
you. I would like to see a black man
get elected president. I said that about Colin Powell 20 yrs ago, I voted for Jesse
Jackson in the Dem primary of 84, when
Mondale and Ferraro became the candidates,
I would vote for Condi Rice in a heartbeat
no matter who she was running against.

I just find it scary when I hear stuff like
what Wright said and it would keep me from
voting for Obama. It may very likely influence a lot of whites the same way.

140

[quote]Professor X wrote:
lixy wrote:
Joe84 wrote:
sherekahn wrote:
Does “No Irish need apply” ring a bell?

no, cause everyone knows only blacks are discriminated against.

Don’t be a wise-ass! There are many levels of discrimination, and blacks - as a race - have historically suffered the most.

Of course, it doesn’t excuse any hate speech, but it puts the pastor’s words into perspective.

I don’t understand anyone trying to ignore this point or act like it is a minor issue.

I would put someone not getting a job in 1975 lower on the fucking list of atrocity than the slaughter of Jews by Nazis.

It is like their defense mechanism keeps them from admitting this.[/quote]

So what? 1975 was over 30 years ago, people like you who like to play the race card just perpetuate racism, you tell your kids how alwful it was to be a black man back in the 50s and plant hate into their heads and create racism…

so now we have black kids who have never been apart of any real racism who feel like they’ve been wronged by whites, and it just perpetuates more racism and it gives them that chip on the shoulder attitude and if you left it alone it wounldn’t exsist as much.