Obama's Pastor

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
281

Pookie,

Many pages have transpired since you replied to me, so I will try not to review ground that Boston covered w/r/t Hagee, etc.

The only question I care about is whether it matters to the Obama campaign. I contend that it does. I contend that if I am on Team Obama, I would be worried about this. Here’s why.

There is nothing odd about delving into topics that are relevant to Obama’s campaign. This relationship with the pastor is one of these issues. So is the Rezko affair. These should have been dealt with long ago, but the media decided that they would tiptoe around Obama until all the other candidates got washed out.

The problem is, of course, how Obama chooses to handle this. The more distances himself from Wright, the more questions are raised as to why he didn’t do it before. That smacks of political opportunism, and cynics will offer the predictable “all politicians do it”. But that isn’t good enough because of Obama himself. Obama has mortgaged his entire campaign on the idea that he isn’t a politician, he is beyond all that, and he transcends such thinking.

So, take that away - we realize Obama is a regular political opportunist, just like all the other guys. Well then, why elect him? He has no other assets to capitalize on. Once he is reduced to mere mortal politician, he has nothing to offer. That is why this story is a problem for Obama - even if we say to ourselves “hey, he has these relationships just like all the other sleazy politicians”, we have taken away the one lone reason to distinguish a mediocre third-year Senator who has done nothing in his professional life to suggest he can lead a country.

Take away Obama’s airy mojo and rhetoric, reduce him to a regular politician, and you are left with one of the weakest substantive candidates in recent political history. This story hurts that whole “transcendent” narrative - so is it a big deal? Unquestionably.

That is what matters. The practical difference between Obama’s and Hillary’s platform is razor thin - it is the usual hodge podge of left-liberal policies and approaches. Very little distinction. If Obama loses his marketing edge, he has no other cards to play.

282

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:

I think blacks are worse off than had AA and the welfare state not existed.

Unless you are about to go into some spiel about how you traveled through a worm hole and watched an alternate universe and how they were better off by not having AA, then how the fuck did you arrive at this conclusion?

How do you arrive at anything contrary to my conclusion? By the number of intact families dramatically increasing? Vast downturns in the amount of black crime? Oh yeah, AA and the welfare state has been a hit.[/quote]

It may have been pointed out to you already, but you are wrong about crime. Homicides committed by blacks has steadily decreased from 51 per 100k in 1980 to 26 per 100k in 2005. That’s half the rate in 25 years. The numbers are down all across the board – rape, assault, theft – these have all decreased drastically over the last few decades among black offenders and in general as well. The only real exception is drug related arrests which have gone up in a huge way.

283

Crime ??? HAhahaha come to baltimore city you might get robbed gunpoint.

284

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Obama is clearly the antichrist.[/quote]

Said the goat that talks like a man…

285

[quote]dk44 wrote:
How bout, If you weren’t a slave, then quit bitching; and if your didn’t own slaves, quit feeling sorry.

We would all be better off.

[/quote]

This isn’t about slavery. Atrocities like the Tuskegee experiment came long after slavery and quite a few people are still alive to remember it. In fact, not one president apologized for that act until President Clinton. It apparently wasn’t important to Bush Sr. or Reagan.

These are things that also get downplayed as if they don’t matter that much. However, if a country can treat its own people like that, how can someone 30 years or so later claim no one should be upset about it? How can people claim that we should trust that same government and that criticism of it in public should be avoided? How can they claim it is “un-American”? What was Un-American was allowing it to happen in the first place. What was unpatriotic was treating a group of people as less than human for so long and actually having some government support in doing so.

Would all of you say that criticism should be avoided if it had been you who were targeted?

I really wonder.

Can any of you ensure me or anyone else that there weren’t other experiments that we don’t know about?

Didn’t think so.

286

Hey X, Its almost sad to say but your right. The sad part is there aint nothing you can do, or I can do to change it. It is what it is my man.

287

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

Take away Obama’s airy mojo and rhetoric, reduce him to a regular politician, and you are left with one of the weakest substantive candidates in recent political history.[/quote]

If you think that this fact makes any difference, then you severely underestimate the stupidity of the American electorate.

“IDIOT, n.
A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in human affairs has always been dominant and controlling. The Idiot’s activity is not confined to any special field of thought or action, but “pervades and regulates the whole.” He has the last word in everything; his decision is unappealable. He sets the fashions and opinion of taste, dictates the limitations of speech and circumscribes conduct with a dead-line.”

See also “Brain”
“BRAIN, n.
An apparatus with which we think what we think. That which distinguishes the man who is content to be something from the man who wishes to do something. A man of great wealth, or one who has been pitchforked into high station, has commonly such a headful of brain that his neighbors cannot keep their hats on. In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, brain is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office.”

-Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary

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[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
Hey X, Its almost sad to say but your right. The sad part is there aint nothing you can do, or I can do to change it. It is what it is my man. [/quote]

You change it by not being so hypocritical as to jump on this preacher for saying, “God damn America”. Blacks have fought and died for this country, the same country that kept blacks as second class citizens even in the military for far too long. The same country that tested on them like lab rats now, less than 50 years later, turns around and acts like it is so off the wall that a preacher (not a medical doctor) claims that AIDs was a construct of that government to target blacks.

Are people really so ass backwards as to blame him for that line of thought? Are people really that blind to what has happened as to act like it is “Un-American”?

I’m not even defending everything the man has said because I haven’t listened to but one clip that Boston posted. But I can definitely understand why he said it.

289

If it’s so bad here, I wonder why blacks haven’t repatriated themselves en masse to Africa.

The US government has also experimented on whites or performed tests that adversely affected whites:
http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/research/stanley.htm

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/experiments.htm

Nevada residents near bomb test sites also successfully sued the US government for radiation exposure.

Don’t forget MacArthur’s attack on the “Bonus Marchers”:

Not to mention the half million whites that died in the American Civil War over states rights issues pertaining to slavery.

290

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
If it’s so bad here, I wonder why blacks haven’t repatriated themselves en masse to Africa.

The US government has also experimented on whites or performed tests that adversely affected whites:
http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/research/stanley.htm

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/experiments.htm

Nevada residents near bomb test sites also successfully sued the US government for radiation exposure.

Don’t forget MacArthur’s attack on the “Bonus Marchers”:

Not to mention the half million whites that died in the American Civil War over states rights issues pertaining to slavery. [/quote]

You owe your own freedom to many of those same blacks who fought for this country. The same ones you are now claiming should just leave if they criticize any part of it. This country was built on the backs of slaves, Chinese immigrants and just about every other race that gets looked down upon at times.

I am sure they all appreciate that emotional “thank you” from you.

I’m not even going to get into how you just related a SOLDIER, someone who is effectively OWNED by the government to what CIVILIANS experienced with the Tuskegee experiment. the two are not the same which is why he lost that law suit.

291

I owe my freedom to my ancestors who fought in defense of this country, and they’ve received a hearty thanks. They’re white men. Blacks weren’t even allowed to fight in WWI and II, for the most part. You can look it up:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-17362103.html
Blacks were in the rear with the gear.

This country was built on the backs of the European stock that made the overwhelming majority of this country from the get-go. Some of my ancestors were Irish and they were used for the worst jobs of all.

If whites want to discuss an anti-white professional agitator and advisor to a soon-to-be ex-Muslim president, it’s our right. You’re just another sniveling malcontent here to shame those who want to speak their mind.

292

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
You owe your own freedom to many of those same blacks who fought for this country. The same ones you are now claiming should just leave if they criticize any part of it. This country was built on the backs of slaves, Chinese immigrants and just about every other race that gets looked down upon at times.

I owe my freedom to my ancestors who fought in defense of this country, and they’ve received a hearty thanks. They’re white men. Blacks weren’t even allowed to fight in WWI and II, for the most part. You can look it up:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-17362103.html
Blacks were in the rear with the gear.

This country was built on the backs of the European stock that made the overwhelming majority of this country from the get-go. Some of my ancestors were Irish and they were used for the worst jobs of all.

If whites want to discuss an anti-white professional agitator and advisor to a soon-to-be ex-Muslim president, it’s our right. You’re just another sniveling malcontent here to shame those who want to speak their mind.
[/quote]

Wrong. I’m someone showing you that it makes no sense to complain about Political Correctness at every turn but act like someone is against America if they speak their mind in public.

Oh, and maybe you need to brush up on some history:
http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org/Tuskegee_Airmen_History.html

293

I’ve probably said too much already and some of you are saying it better than I am so I’ll post this one and drop out.

I was never a slave and never owned one. Can’t help what a previous generation did.
Can’t fix the problem. Have puzzled over affirmative action. Probably was once necessary. May still be. Maybe not.
Can’t please everybody.

In contrast to Wright I do say God bless
America even if she’s not perfect. I travel way too much and I feel like kissing the ground when I get back to the US.

Wright would spend the rest of his life in jail for one of his remarks in some of the places I’ve been to. Read The Gulag Archipelago. What was it ten yrs in prison for an obscure criticism in a letter?

A friend of mine in Egypt said his church was fire bombed by muslims and it didn’t even make the news. America is a pretty good place to live.

Michelle Obama thinks we are downright mean
but she’s never had acid thrown in her face for not wearing a burka. She wouldn’t be wondering how to buy fruit for her 2 daughters on $342,000 a yr in most countries and no, that is not a reference to AA. That’s a comment on our great country.

As a descendant of some of those noble savages, the native Americans I can say my ancestors weren’t always kind to each other before Europeans arrived. Slavery was practiced in this country from 1619 to 1865. It had been practiced in Africa long before then and is still being practiced there. It wasn’t the klan who killed Malcolm X.

We have freedom of speech and religion
in this country so Wright can whatever he likes. So can Duke but none of us have to listen to either one. And we surely can’t be expected to vote for a candidate if
we suspect he holds anti-American views.

Eddie Murphy said he went back to Africa
to check out his roots and said “Thank God for slavery.” Native Americans didn’t leave the stone age because they ran out of stones. It’s nice to have running water
even if it comes from a fountain marked for colored only. Had some refugees from Darfur on flight I was on recently and they
would pretty happy someone was getting them out. I have some friends in Equitorial
Guinea who would be happy to live in any slum in America.

And 20,000,000 illegal immigrants can’t be wrong. This is a great place to live.
I’ve heard the border fence compared to the Berlin Wall. That is idiocy. The Berlin Wall kept people in. If we ever get a border fence it will be keep people out.

Sure I get aggravated at things in the US
but I can’t find any other place I like better. One man was asked about his income
taxes. Just think what that could have bought. He answered, I LIKE TO THINK WHAT IT DID BUY.

We’re not perfect and none of us can fix it
but it’s way ahead of most places. God bless America.

294

^^I’ll drink to that, Professor.

295

[quote]sherekahn wrote:
I’ve probably said too much already and some of you are saying it better than I am so I’ll post this one and drop out.

I was never a slave and never owned one. Can’t help what a previous generation did.
Can’t fix the problem. Have puzzled over affirmative action. Probably was once necessary. May still be. Maybe not.
Can’t please everybody.

In contrast to Wright I do say God bless
America even if she’s not perfect. I travel way too much and I feel like kissing the ground when I get back to the US.

Wright would spend the rest of his life in jail for one of his remarks in some of the places I’ve been to. Read The Gulag Archipelago. What was it ten yrs in prison for an obscure criticism in a letter?

A friend of mine in Egypt said his church was fire bombed by muslims and it didn’t even make the news. America is a pretty good place to live.

Michelle Obama thinks we are downright mean
but she’s never had acid thrown in her face for not wearing a burka. She wouldn’t be wondering how to buy fruit for her 2 daughters on $342,000 a yr in most countries and no, that is not a reference to AA. That’s a comment on our great country.

As a descendant of some of those noble savages, the native Americans I can say my ancestors weren’t always kind to each other before Europeans arrived. Slavery was practiced in this country from 1619 to 1865. It had been practiced in Africa long before then and is still being practiced there. It wasn’t the klan who killed Malcolm X.

We have freedom of speech and religion
in this country so Wright can whatever he likes. So can Duke but none of us have to listen to either one. And we surely can’t be expected to vote for a candidate if
we suspect he holds anti-American views.

Eddie Murphy said he went back to Africa
to check out his roots and said “Thank God for slavery.” Native Americans didn’t leave the stone age because they ran out of stones. It’s nice to have running water
even if it comes from a fountain marked for colored only. Had some refugees from Darfur on flight I was on recently and they
would pretty happy someone was getting them out. I have some friends in Equitorial
Guinea who would be happy to live in any slum in America.

And 20,000,000 illegal immigrants can’t be wrong. This is a great place to live.
I’ve heard the border fence compared to the Berlin Wall. That is idiocy. The Berlin Wall kept people in. If we ever get a border fence it will be keep people out.

Sure I get aggravated at things in the US
but I can’t find any other place I like better. One man was asked about his income
taxes. Just think what that could have bought. He answered, I LIKE TO THINK WHAT IT DID BUY.

We’re not perfect and none of us can fix it
but it’s way ahead of most places. God bless America.
[/quote]

No one is claiming anything less than perfection is intolerable. What is being said is that you don’t excuse wrong doings just because the rest of the world may top you in that regard. You don’t act like it is less significant because women get acid thrown on them in some other country. How does that excuse injecting civilians with syphilis? How is any criticism seen as “unpatriotic”? I thought men fought and died so that we had that right. Are you saying this is now not the case?

One of the things that makes this country great is the fact that we can speak our minds in public…so why are people who do taken to task on it…and then why do people then complain about how “politically correct” everyone is? Why don’t some of you make up your minds.

296

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:

I owe my freedom to my ancestors who fought in defense of this country, and they’ve received a hearty thanks. They’re white men. Blacks weren’t even allowed to fight in WWI and II, for the most part. You can look it up:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-17362103.html
Blacks were in the rear with the gear.

[/quote]

And just a personal comment on this; anytime someone wonders why Black History month is still important they should remember your post. Without initiatives like that, I am sure many more would act like blacks were simply not present in American History and that they contributed so little that they need not be mentioned.

297

Thought I made that clear. I do respect Wright’s right to say what he said. I
just think it’s unrealistic to expect people
to like it. Reminds me of a playground bully when I was a kid. His big line was
“I’m gonna whip you and make you like it.”
He accomplished the first but never the second.

Ref the syphillis: Inexcusable, unjustifiable. Whoever was responsible
should have gotten the death penalty. Too
late for that now so what do you suggest?
Where I live there was a home for retarded children of all races, I guess or maybe just white. They had some pretty bad
experiments run on them as well.

Read this thread rather quickly. Did you say your dad was a minister who supported his family as a teacher? Or was that someone else posting on this thread? I
was a minister and supported my family by teaching.

As an old man, apparently a little older than your dad, let me point out something
you may have already caught. In politics,
nothing just happens. Somebody makes it happen. Michelle Obama’s remarks that people took offense at were scripted. Now,
I don’t think Rev Wright wrote that speech.
So, who did? Who wanted her to say that?
Who stood to gain?

How did Obama come from nowhere to where he is today? I liked Alan Keyes. Had never heard of Obama. Keyes was the victim of a hatchet job. Obama got elected. Spoke at
the Dem convention. I told my wife, “We’ll hear from this young man again.” No question his speech was the best at the
convention. Now the smart money already knew about his connection with Wright and how that could be used against him. This
has set up written all over it. He could have distanced himself from Wright and waited a few yrs and been elected. This
is Hillary’s last rodeo unless she gets
in this time, then she’ll run for another term.

Now Obama’s tarnished. Probably forever.
And when you go into politics, everything about you becomes everybody’s business.
Dubya got a skinning for making one speech at Bob Jones University.

Now, while Bill’s remarks after the SC
primary were over the line, what Ferraro
said wasn’t in my opinion. But do you think
she was just rambling? Again, this was scripted. You say this, and if there’s an
uproar, I’ll fire you and then you go on all the talk shows.

Like they say in the cop shows, “Who had motive? Who had oppurtunity?”

298

[quote]sherekahn wrote:

Ref the syphillis: Inexcusable, unjustifiable. Whoever was responsible
should have gotten the death penalty. Too
late for that now so what do you suggest?
[/quote]

That it never be forgotten and that people quit deflecting how bad it was by trying to explain it away. This should be common knowledge. My guess is that it’s not. I am sure that if I asked 50 random teenagers about it that not one would know what I was talking about.

[quote]

Read this thread rather quickly. Did you say your dad was a minister who supported his family as a teacher? Or was that someone else posting on this thread? I
was a minister and supported my family by teaching.[/quote]

My dad was a preacher. When he came back from Vietnam, he had college credit (2 years) but was hired to clean Sear’s. He later became manager of Men’s Fashions while going back to school (this was all while I was growing up). He then became a teacher and then a principal. I actually wish he would write on this topic but he hates computers.

I honestly think it is your own personal opinion that anything has been “tarnished”. the only thing that surprises me (in fact, it amazes me) is that he avoided this level of mud slinging for so long. I am impressed by that.

Anyone who thinks race is not an issue in America today must be borderline retarded. I am not saying you hold that belief, but that anyone who thought the race issue could be avoided when a black man is running for the Presidency in this country (given its history) didn’t have it all to start with.

We will see how this plays out. Listening to people who already made up their minds against as they leap on everything they can to support that decision doesn’t exactly color me impressed.

299

I probably just need to send messages directly to you instead of posting on this thread as it may be wearisome to others.
You may be right about the effect all this has. I tend to be pessimistic, even fatalistic at times. You’re right about
one thing, for sure. I wasn’t going to vote for Obama to begin with.

Just read something on real clear politics
that goes along with what you just said about race having to be an issue.

There are lots of articles on that web site
both for and against Obama. Lots of speculation. In accordance with Michelle’s statement about being downright mean, that’s
the way I’ve felt about Hillary since the first time I saw her. Didn’t know anything
about her—it was just a gut feeling. Now,
my gut feeling is that if this was a hatchet job, get ready for a string of axe murders.

Does the timing strike you as odd? She and
Bill suggest Obama be her running mate and
he rejects it because he’s in the lead. Says it should be the other way around.
Not unreasonable. Makes them look like fools for saying he isn’t ready to be pres but is ready to be vp. Then Ferraro does her thing. Then the Wright tapes show up.
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

I’m probably just one of those right wing nut cases who goes around seeing black helicopters.

300

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Just for sh*ts and giggles, here’s what Obama had to say about Don Imus back when the whole “nappy headed hoes” controversy was storming:

EXCERPT:

“I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus,” Obama told ABC News, “but I would also say that there’s nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude.” [/quote]

Good find.