[quote]kamui wrote:
my wife suffers from multiple sclerosis.
in her case, France do just fine.[/quote]
I’m sorry to hear this. That must be very difficult to deal with at times.
[quote]kamui wrote:
my wife suffers from multiple sclerosis.
in her case, France do just fine.[/quote]
I’m sorry to hear this.
For the sake of argument, though, MS is a chronic illness. One argument against the European model of healthcare is that the initial work-up for illnesses takes a lot longer than in America. There are longer waiting lists to see specialists and to get more advanced tests done. This is different from managing a chronic illness that is well-known to the physician and for which the treatment is, unfortunately, relatively limited and straightforward.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I’ll give Stewart credit - they weren’t “tough” questions in an onjective sense, but he did have the audacity to not kow-tow and did put the President in some awkward positions.
Stewart also called the President “dude” - an interesting refusal to accord the office of the presidency the usual deference you’d expect. To me, that is telling of how Stewart thinks of Obama - clearly, Stewart is not in awe of him. That portends something culturally, I think.
Stewart was fair to attack from the Left, where Stewart resides. I think he made his point. I also think that disenchanted moderates who were once supportive of Obama will become more disenchanted if they watch the clip - Obama clearly went on the show to pander to left-wing hipsters, and the language he was speaking (Obamacare is merely a “structure” for more change to come, i.e., “I’ve paved the way for bigger, badder public health care, this is just the first step”) won’t be lost on the moderates.
And, by the way, it is a hell of a thing to make both your base and moderates/independents grumpy at you. Lefties think he is too moderate, and moderates think he is too left-wing. You have to have a special kind of competence to pull this off - and it ain’t the good kind of competence.[/quote]
My thoughts exactly, very nice tbolt.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
I like how he compared his health care to social security. He said in the beginins ss was just for widows and orphans, but over time that foundation was built upon. He said healthcare would be the same way, then said that is how progressive policies work. Does this mean the massive health care bill is just a start of something bigger? [/quote]
Yes , I think the only way to make health care more affordable for all is to remove the profit [/quote]
Sure, doctors will study 10+ years and go deep into debt without making a profit, pharma companies are going to develop new cures without making a profit, and the hospitals while be downright excellent when no one that is interested in profit goes into that field anymore.
It will all simply be awesome.
[/quote]
Europe seems to do fine
[/quote]
If you dont mind waiting lists, crappy standards, little choice when it comes to treatments and death panels we are doing great!
No really, you can talk to a doctor for all of 5 minutes after having waited 2-3 months!
But its free!
[/quote]
If everybody had endless supplies of money our system would be superior, problem is some people can not afford any care all they can do is clog the emergency rooms up and stiff the hospital who in turn charges people that do pay and Insurance companies for the people that do not pay.
Treating a sinus infection is cheaper that treating pneumonia [/quote]
You do know that they do not do this ranking anymore because it is complete bullshit?
[/quote]
Makes sense, I have had experience with Greece’s health care system. The fact that they are ranked above the U.S. just screams that this ranking is bullshit.
[quote]atomsftball37 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
I like how he compared his health care to social security. He said in the beginins ss was just for widows and orphans, but over time that foundation was built upon. He said healthcare would be the same way, then said that is how progressive policies work. Does this mean the massive health care bill is just a start of something bigger? [/quote]
Yes , I think the only way to make health care more affordable for all is to remove the profit [/quote]
Sure, doctors will study 10+ years and go deep into debt without making a profit, pharma companies are going to develop new cures without making a profit, and the hospitals while be downright excellent when no one that is interested in profit goes into that field anymore.
It will all simply be awesome.
[/quote]
Europe seems to do fine
[/quote]
Do they? Nurse Caught on Tape Switching Off Ventilator
NHS officials have apologized for the accident and said safeguards are now in place to ensure that such mistakes never happen again. Merrett’s family, though, is continuing its long campaign for justice. “No one has come forward to make any admission,” the family’s lawyer, Seamus Edney, told the BBC, “so now almost two years after the event we are trying to get someone to admit liability for what has happened.”
[/quote]
I think an disadvantage of being older is you get to see your parents die and your parents inlaws die . I believe that all had circumstances that were questionable. My mother died of an infection probably caught in the hospital . So America’s health care is far from stellar.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
America may have the best health care money can buy, but …[/quote]
What dude…WHAT!!! Fuck!!!
[/quote]
Your post is a little over my head , you will have to explain it to me 
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
I like how he compared his health care to social security. He said in the beginins ss was just for widows and orphans, but over time that foundation was built upon. He said healthcare would be the same way, then said that is how progressive policies work. Does this mean the massive health care bill is just a start of something bigger? [/quote]
Yes , I think the only way to make health care more affordable for all is to remove the profit [/quote]
Sure, doctors will study 10+ years and go deep into debt without making a profit, pharma companies are going to develop new cures without making a profit, and the hospitals while be downright excellent when no one that is interested in profit goes into that field anymore.
It will all simply be awesome.
[/quote]
Europe seems to do fine
[/quote]
No they don’t.
My father died while waiting for treatment of terminal cancer, and this was 6 years ago, not what I would call a time warp to the past. I have personally seen (many times) how socialized medicine leads to a lower standard of care and much longer waiting times even if it is “free.” Oh and when I say free, I mean people being taxes only 70% of their paychecks.
Europe is good when you have a cold, flu, or a sprained ankle. Get REALLY sick with some shit, and it’s a nightmare.
You are also forgetting that lovely statistic, that 2/3 of Americans are obese, with many dealing with some sort of illness associated with it (high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes, etc.) Just wait til Obama care deals with all of that. Europeans are healthier from better eating habits (sorry but this is true on the average), which means fewer of them need a doctor.
“But my plan will bring costs down !”
- The Chosen One
[/quote]
US 33 and 46 , we are talking about keeping babies alive
We rank low on health care because we have protectionist laws all over the place. Protectionist laws increase prices, try buying a medicine from Canada, try buying health insurance across state lines.
Free trade lowers prices, lower prices means more people can afford it, more people able to afford it creates more incentives for people to make products because people can buy. It’s a cycle that is sure to piss off every liberal who wants government control.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
In health care putting profit before Care is like putting the horse before the cart[/quote]
Um, then why is that a bad thing? Who doesn’t put the horse before the cart?[/quote]
These kinds of posts, the ignorance, the epic struggles with the English language, the simple imbecility, are the very reason that pittbulll is the only poster at T-Nation I have or have ever put on ignore.
Even his screen name contains a typo.
[quote]engerland66 wrote:
[quote]kamui wrote:
my wife suffers from multiple sclerosis.
in her case, France do just fine.[/quote]
I’m sorry to hear this.
For the sake of argument, though, MS is a chronic illness. One argument against the European model of healthcare is that the initial work-up for illnesses takes a lot longer than in America. There are longer waiting lists to see specialists and to get more advanced tests done. This is different from managing a chronic illness that is well-known to the physician and for which the treatment is, unfortunately, relatively limited and straightforward.[/quote]
This Europe versus America is all very simplistic. Compare the care systems of Ireland and France for example and you have two totally different beasts.
France have a fairly good system.
well, in her case, the initial symptoms were an ocular nevropathy.
when it started our socialized transport system took us to the emergecy medical services in less than 30 minutes.
there, she took some preliminary testes, was immediatly hospitalized in the university medical center for the night.
the next day, more advanced testes were done and she met a nationwide specialist of MS in the evening.
three day after the diagnostic was “officialized”, and they delivered her treatment (a recent and partly experimental treatment) and some psychological help.
she was unemployed back then
and it was my first year as a teacher.
it’s probably not perfect (and probably not so good when the diseases are more difficult to diagnose) but it could have been much much worse.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sure, doctors will study 10+ years and go deep into debt without making a profit, pharma companies are going to develop new cures without making a profit, and the hospitals while be downright excellent when no one that is interested in profit goes into that field anymore.
It will all simply be awesome.
[/quote]
It will be a socialist paradise.
[quote]kamui wrote:
well, in her case, the initial symptoms were an ocular nevropathy.
when it started our socialized transport system took us to the emergecy medical services in less than 30 minutes.
there, she took some preliminary testes, was immediatly hospitalized in the university medical center for the night.
the next day, more advanced testes were done and she met a nationwide specialist of MS in the evening.
three day after the diagnostic was “officialized”, and they delivered her treatment (a recent and partly experimental treatment) and some psychological help.
she was unemployed back then
and it was my first year as a teacher.
it’s probably not perfect (and probably not so good when the diseases are more difficult to diagnose) but it could have been much much worse.
[/quote]
I agree. That sounds great. That’s me told.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I like Stewart also , America needs a restoration to sanity , the Right wing has everyone that America has always been a nut job Nation[/quote]
Nicely formed post bro!
Glad that EVERYONE is effected by the right wing with a Democratic super majority! That IS NUTS!
[/quote]
Thanks , I think The most vocal of politicians are RIGHT wing . The rational ones have the fault of not being as load as the irrational ones[/quote]
really then you should look some campaign expenditure data, and not just assume.
This is an interesting read on the idea of healthcare costs.
provides good evidence against allowing the government to control healthcare.
For a long time Stewart leaned far left and only criticized the right. Lately he has been much more moderate, taking time to point out hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle. He has also been reporting more on govt inefficiancy and fraud. The questions certainly could have been easier, and he even poked fun a few times such as mocking him with “Not to lump you in with others alike.”
One thing really stood out to me when he was asked if he saw the recession reaching the level it is at now. He stated something to the effect of “After I was inaugurated, my advisors told me I better enjoy this now, because 2 years from now we will be in terrible economic condition.” WHAT?!! Throughout 2009 the headlines were full of “Obama says economy is strong” and “Obama recommends investing in the stock market.” So his advisors warned him that we would be in this condition and he continued to deceive the American people with false hopes in an attempt to reinforce the economy. He continues this practice today by saying “We averted a great depression” and “Larry Summers saved the economy” all the while another round of foreclosures is being predicted by economists along with a stagnant economy. Presidents have been doing this for centuries. No change there.
Pittbullllll-You comment that the right is more vocal. Do you really believe that or are you being sarcastic?
[quote]John S. wrote:
Those count as hard questions?[/quote]
By American media standards, yes.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
I like how he compared his health care to social security. He said in the beginins ss was just for widows and orphans, but over time that foundation was built upon. He said healthcare would be the same way, then said that is how progressive policies work. Does this mean the massive health care bill is just a start of something bigger? [/quote]
Yes , I think the only way to make health care more affordable for all is to remove the profit [/quote]
Sure, doctors will study 10+ years and go deep into debt without making a profit, pharma companies are going to develop new cures without making a profit, and the hospitals while be downright excellent when no one that is interested in profit goes into that field anymore.
It will all simply be awesome.
[/quote]
Europe seems to do fine
[/quote]
If you dont mind waiting lists, crappy standards, little choice when it comes to treatments and death panels we are doing great!
No really, you can talk to a doctor for all of 5 minutes after having waited 2-3 months!
But its free!
[/quote]
First you are totally exaggerating. It’s not that bad in most countries.
But the main point is this: It’s not like we don’t have private health care in Europe. If you want to pay for treatment, there are plenty of places to do so, should you want that. However if you can’t afford it, you are not fucked like you would be in the US. That’s the difference.
[quote]molnes wrote:
[quote]John S. wrote:
Those count as hard questions?[/quote]
By American media standards, yes. [/quote]
You do have a great point.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I like Stewart also , America needs a restoration to sanity , the Right wing has everyone that America has always been a nut job Nation[/quote]
Nicely formed post bro!
Glad that EVERYONE is effected by the right wing with a Democratic super majority! That IS NUTS!
[/quote]
Thanks , I think The most vocal of politicians are RIGHT wing . The rational ones have the fault of not being as load as the irrational ones[/quote]
really then you should look some campaign expenditure data, and not just assume.
[/quote]
Yeah sure what ever:)