@Jewbacca,
Honestly, I don’t fancy myself qualified to vigorously dispute what you say here. I have been merely a relatively engaged, but non expert observer for quite a while. I must confess to having a hard time spotting all this philanthropic goodwill, not that I think there necessarily should be either.
I do stand by my stance that your 2 peoples will never live in peace while you are in range of one another forgetting whose fault it even ultimately is.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I served with arab guys like that in the IDF. Just guys, like anyone else.
The girl in this picture is a combat medic in the IDF with one of my daughter. She’s an arab Christian who loves her country of Israel.[/quote]
I’ve never been to Israel and obviously don’t know as much as you about the situation but it’s always been an important issue for me. I grew up in the 90’s hearing about suicide bombers and the ‘peace process’. Then the 9/11 attacks and the Jihad against the West. I see Israel as the main front in the war against Islamists. I feel strongly about it and try to convince people of my position but I sometimes tend to fall into the habit of brow beating rather than convincing. I’ve always found it nearly impossible to convince people anyway. I really believe that the vast majority of people won’t change their way of thinking until their own lives and families are at risk. This is basically what it took to awaken Britain to the Nazi danger in the 30’s.
I’ve often heard it said that Israel supporters outside Israel are more ‘hardline’ than loyal Israelis. I guess when you live/work/serve with Israeli Arabs you get to see that many of them are decent people and many are just brainwashed. Anyway, keep up the good posts.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I do stand by my stance that your 2 peoples will never live in peace while you are in range of one another forgetting whose fault it even ultimately is.[/quote]
Let’s be fair, though. Trying to pin culpability is an endless exercise. It’s a “king of the hill” type game.
If they want to “resolve” anything, they need to cut that shit out first.
Clarification: “they” refers to both sides.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I do stand by my stance that your 2 peoples will never live in peace while you are in range of one another forgetting whose fault it even ultimately is.[/quote]
Let’s be fair, though. Trying to pin culpability is an endless exercise. It’s a “king of the hill” type game.
If they want to “resolve” anything, they need to cut that shit out first.
Clarification: “they” refers to both sides.[/quote]
In all seriousness, would you say that in 1939 both Poland and Germany should’ve ‘cut that shit out’? Let’s get real here.
Why was Israel created again? Can someone give me a 2 min history on that? I’d love to hear the responses.
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Why was Israel created again? Can someone give me a 2 min history on that? I’d love to hear the responses.[/quote]
Sure. The Kingdom of Israel was founded in 1020 BC. The tribes united due to the threats from foreign peoples, in particular the Philistines. Jerusalem was established as the capital of Israel around 1000BC under David’s rule.
The so-called Palestinians became a people in 1967 with the help of their Egyptian leader Yasser Arafat and his terrorist organisation the PLO. Around this time they realised that an obscure line in the Qaran referring to Muhammad flying to ‘the farthest mosque’ meant Al Aqsa: A mosque built after Muhammad’s death.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Why was Israel created again? Can someone give me a 2 min history on that? I’d love to hear the responses.[/quote]
Sure. The Kingdom of Israel was founded in 1020 BC. The tribes united due to the threats from foreign peoples, in particular the Philistines. Jerusalem was established as the capital of Israel around 1000BC under David’s rule.
The so-called Palestinians became a people in 1967 with the help of their Egyptian leader Yasser Arafat and his terrorist organisation the PLO. Around this time they realised that an obscure line in the Qaran referring to Muhammad flying to ‘the farthest mosque’ meant Al Aqsa: A mosque built after Muhammad’s death.[/quote]
You forgot about the whole thing about Jews dispersing and converting Khazaria, the Khazarian converts becoming the European Ashkensazi Jews. Screwing themselves genetically out of Jewish blood, and nearly culture. Then between 1 AD and 1900 AD the region of Palestine was mostly inhabited by Muslims and Christians of a melting pot descent from Euro crusaders, Phoenicians, Arabs, Turks, Armenians on and on - but finally defined by language and religion. Then global Zionism (of Central Asian/European Jewish religious people who didn’t speak Hebrew) got the fancy idea in their head and decided to trickle back and set up a Jewish colony. Meanwhile, the Jews got liquidated in Europe cuz they pissed off the Germans by profiting from the demise of the nation in the 1st world war, as well as being intrinsically linked with rising communism worldwide (check the the religion of the top Commie original thinkers and party membership during that period). So they got baked in an oven in the second World War. Everyone felt bad, and they claimed global anti-semitism, even tho Palistinans are Semitic and the modern European Jews are about as semitic as a piece of ham chewing tabacco and hanging drywall. Also, because they didn’t have a Hollywood PR campaign no one cared about the Christian Armenians, the gays, the gypsies or the tards who also got butchered…
They Jews were placed in the land they were 2500 years seperated from and not even gentically linked to. Then during the decolonialization of the region the Jews militant crazy about making a Jewish country (notice the flag of the ‘multi-national’ Jewish state) and the Muslims weren’t having it.
They fought…alot. The USA is controlled by Jews so they basically give them weapons and money for free to run an apartheid over the Muslims…
Despite the fact they do nothing for us in return, sell our government secrets, sank one of our navy ships and murdered all of its sailors, as well as, dominate our economy and manipulate our political system.
But noone knows about that because the media they control doesn’t tell us that, and it says thats only what crazies and boogie men think anyways.
That puts us where we at today.
Touche’ Obama finally someone has the balls to stand up to AIPAC.
hm the kazarian theory, I dont know if this is a revisionist myth or a fact. Could someone provide a good source that explains this( if its a myth or a fact ).
thanks in advance.
This article confirms that the khazars converted to judaism, but it doesnt confirm
the theory that all askenasi jews are of khazarian blood. And it put the theory of
askenasi = khazarian in a speculative light.
This is a controversial subject, I’ll dig up some genetic studies.
I’ve seen two articles written off the the exact same genetic study, one claiming that the study does prove khazar ties and others not.
To me its pretty obvious. European Jews look Central Asian / European, Middle Eastern Jews look Middle Eastern, Sephardic Jews look Middle Eastern… its not rocket science to figure out that Jews who came by way of Eastern Europe into Central Europe probably are not racially very Jewish.
I’ll find the info tho.
BTW, at the end of the day, does it make a difference?
Does Jewish blood line truly give them a right to inhabit a land that a people have inhabited for the 2000 years since they left?
Isn’t that blood and soil bs a part of Nazi ideology big time?
The Jews left, if they want to move back, then they have to play nice, if the don’t want to play nice, then they’ll have to fight. That doesn’t make it right… so why do we support their oppression of the Palis again?
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
This is a controversial subject, I’ll dig up some genetic studies.
I’ve seen two articles written off the the exact same genetic study, one claiming that the study does prove khazar ties and others not.
To me its pretty obvious. European Jews look Central Asian / European, Middle Eastern Jews look Middle Eastern, Sephardic Jews look Middle Eastern… its not rocket science to figure out that Jews who came by way of Eastern Europe into Central Europe probably are not racially very Jewish.
I’ll find the info tho.
BTW, at the end of the day, does it make a difference?
Does Jewish blood line truly give them a right to inhabit a land that a people have inhabited for the 2000 years since they left?
Isn’t that blood and soil bs a part of Nazi ideology big time?
The Jews left, if they want to move back, then they have to play nice, if the don’t want to play nice, then they’ll have to fight. That doesn’t make it right… so why do we support their oppression of the Palis again?[/quote]
Well If you read this thread from the beginning, you will see I am against the occupation of the palestinian territorys.
I just questioning the khazarian theory since you brought it up.
[quote]florelius wrote:
hm the kazarian theory, I dont know if this is a revisionist myth or a fact. Could someone provide a good source that explains this( if its a myth or a fact ).
thanks in advance.
This article confirms that the khazars converted to judaism, but it doesnt confirm
the theory that all askenasi jews are of khazarian blood. And it put the theory of
askenasi = khazarian in a speculative light.[/quote]
How about ignoring a moron who comes out with shit like Jews ‘profiting off the demise’ of Germany in the first world war? It’s all complete bollocks.
Phoenecians had dispersed and no longer existed as a seperate ethnic group by the third century before Christ. This idiot doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about. The idea that all Ashkenazi Jews are Khazarian converts is as stupid as the idea that Palestinians are the Philistines of the Bible. Are you too stupid to look things up yourself? I’ll do it for you then:
‘Although the Khazar theory has little support amongst academics, in the Arab world it still enjoys popularity among anti-Zionists’
‘This theory is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics’ - Bernard Lewis
‘A higher percentage of German Jews fought in World War I than that of any other ethnic, religious or political group in Germany; some 12,000 died for their country. Ironically, it was a Jewish lieutenant, Hugo Gutmann, who awarded the Iron Cross, First Class, to a 29-year-old corporal named Adolf Hitler’ - The Jewish War Dead
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Let’s be fair, though. Trying to pin culpability is an endless exercise. It’s a “king of the hill” type game.
If they want to “resolve” anything, they need to cut that shit out first.
Clarification: “they” refers to both sides.[/quote]
You really have fallen for the lies, haven’t you?
Israel has not displaced anyone, unless you think France displaced Germany by kicking the Nazis out of Paris. And no, it’s not some ancient land claim.
Judea (now somehow know as the West Bank) and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem (so named for a couple thousand years — renamed “arab east Jerusalem” circa 1967) were continuously occupied by the Jewish residents until Jordan and Eqypt killed and expelled the Jewish residents early/mid 1900s in a Nazi-backed attempt at genocide.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, HOWEVER, Israel has been VERY WILLING for these arab immigrants to form their own country, provided they: (1) agree Israel has a right to exist and (2) don’t try to kill us.
Hamas has refused to agree that Israel has a right to exist and refuses to stop attempting genocide.
It’s a ONE SIDED CONFLICT.
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
You forgot about the whole thing about Jews dispersing and converting Khazaria, the Khazarian converts becoming the European Ashkensazi Jews. [/quote]
You do know that this myth was soundly refuted by a number of genetic studies, right? Specifically Ashkenazi Jewish people are of middle eastern origin. Our closest genetic relatives are Sephardic and Mizarahi (Spanish and Middle Eastern) Jewish groups, followed by . . . . arabs in and around Israel. Indeed, genetic studies show we all share a common male ancestor from the mid-east. You might have heard of him as “Abraham.”
Here:
http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/HammerPNAS_2000.pdf
[quote]
Then between 1 AD and 1900 AD the region of Palestine was mostly inhabited by Muslims and Christians of a melting pot descent from Euro crusaders, Phoenicians, Arabs, Turks, Armenians on and on - but finally defined by language and religion. [/quote]
Actually, it was basically empty. To the extent it had a population, it was Haredi Jewish people who never left Jerusalem and various Christian monks taking care of churches.
You probably should read Mark Twain’s “Innocents Abroad” – the American author took a group and toured much of the world mid-1800s, including what is now Israel. Best English first hand accounts I’ve read.
The rest of your stuff is classic socialist/Democrat anti-semitic crap to which I can’t bother to respond.
[quote]florelius wrote:
Well If you read this thread from the beginning, you will see I am against the occupation of the palestinian territorys.
I just questioning the khazarian theory since you brought it up.
[/quote]
Thank you for questioning the khazarian theory, as it is nonsense.
What “palestinian territories” are you talking about? The Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem that was ethnically cleansed of Jews by Jordon? Or Judea that was ethnically cleansed by Eqypt?
And you do know that Israel is willing to permit the arabs to keep the territory they conquered on TWO CONDITIONS: (1) they agree to the right of Israel to exist in the remaining territory and (2) agree not to continue to attempt to kill us.
The PA has absolutely refused to bend on those two points.
The failure to agree on those two basic conditions should tell you the arabs are not actually interested in peace.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Thank you for questioning the khazarian theory, as it is nonsense.
[/quote]
You are welcome. I have only heard about this “theory” from suspect individuals( fascists, nazis, racists ), So I find suspect for obvious reasons, but I dont know enough about therefor I cant dismiss it without getting the facts
I where thinking more in line of the wall that penetrates the palestinian territory and the religious fanatics that have settlements within palestinia.
My problem here is that I have heard the opposit being claimed. A source that clear this up would be much appreciated.
Levantine Jews are closer relatred to Palestinians than they are to Ashkensazi jews. This being said, if the Palis are more genetically similar to the Jews who actually inhabited the ancient Levant. Shouldn’t they get blood quantum preference?
Further, if you read the genetic studies you posted yourself, the Khazarian theory is not refuted at all. European Jews have a 10-20% Central Asian element of greater amount than their Jewish element.
At the end of the day, the Jews are only minimally similar worldwide, and even if the weren’t, how does this justify them living in Israel?
From what I understand from the Christian pov, Judaism became obsolete upon Jesus’ messiah-hood and the Chrisitans became the nation of Israel. The good Jews miscegenated into Christianity while the bad jews followers of Pharisees, denied the profit. Judaism was no longer tribe, and no longer intended to be racial/ethnic, instead it became the nation of all who followed Christ. (I believe thats in Galatians. I’m a deist btw.) Isn’t that as a valid a claim to the Holy Land for the Christian there? I mean they are the only ones not playing the race card…
Aren’t we a little bit too advanced and too intelligent to be getting involved in wars of the Holy soil anymore?
"Geneticist Noah Rosenberg asserts that although recent DNA studies “do not appear to support” the Khazar hypothesis, they do not “entirely eliminate it either.”
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/06/tracing-the-roots-of-jewishness.html
So carry on with your blood tests to determine whether or not modern Jews are related to the Ancient Aryan Master Race cough I mean actually related the Ancient tribe of God’s chosen people.
Cuz racial genetics and claims of ubermench superiority and entitlement is only OK in this case.
[quote]florelius wrote:
I where thinking more in line of the wall that penetrates the palestinian territory and the religious fanatics that have settlements within palestinia.
[/quote]
Can you think of a better way of stopping the influx of suicide bombers? Does this religious fanaticism comprise murdering people or just arguing about whether cars can be driven on the Shabbat and whether tea can be drunk on fast days etc?
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:<<< From what I understand from the Christian pov, Judaism became obsolete upon Jesus’ messiah-hood and the Chrisitans became the nation of Israel. >>>[/quote] Romans 2:27-29 [quote]27-And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28-For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29-But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. [/quote] Galatians 3:6-9 [quote] 6-Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8-The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, â??ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.â?? 9-So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. [/quote] The entire mighty epistle to the Hebrews chronicles the progress of the gospel of Jesus Christ from eternity to the present. Christ has always been the “way, the truth and the life”, the only way to the Father. It was in former times a mystery, hidden the in the earthly relationship of “the LORD”, YHWH, with His then chosen vessel Israel to whom yet belong the promises first. Still “the gospel” was preached to Abraham by God Himself in His covenant promise of a coming savior/redeemer through father Abraham’s descendants. That redeemer was born with the animals in a manger as the Son of the most high God and a lowly woman. Jesus of Nazareth of the house of David, king of the Jews. The day all the saints of old longed to see even while it wasn’t fully revealed to them.
The resurrected Christ Himself subdued a church destroying Jewish hater of Christians, Saul of Tarsus and personally taught Him these truths, transforming him into Paul the Apostle who would spend the rest of his natural life ceaselessly and selflessly laboring for his savior whose spiritual nation he once tried to exterminate. Paul wrote 13 books of the New Testament and really REALLY understood the relationship of the nation of Israel, his nation, to the Christ of Abraham who lived in full compliance to the law of Moses, was executed as if He were a lawbreaker Himself taking the penalty in His own person for all that the Father would give Him. Rising the third day the triumphant conqueror of death and the grave and who now sits at the right hand of majesty on high. OH GLORY!!! I can’t hardly even type this without dancin around my house shoutin praises to His name.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
That redeemer was born with the animals in a manger as the Son of the most high God and a lowly woman.
[/quote]
Lowly woman? Clearly you’re not a Catholic then.
These threads always go off track. The subject is Obama’s speech ordering Israel to be cut in half and to adopt indefensible lines as their borders. We can discuss spiritual circumcision and dancing around our houses yelling ‘hallelujah’ in another thread.