[quote]florelius wrote:
When it comes to what Israel should have done, I dont know because I am not a general or similar remember, but they could have come up with another solution than collectively punish the palestinian people. Maybe sending in some special troops and snipe away those fuckers with rockets. Again I am not an military expert so if that suggestion seemed naive or just batshit idiotic, its because of that.
[/quote]
So, you condemn their actions, but offer no solutions, or solutions which you yourself admit may be “naive or just batshit idiotic.”
If you don’t see a problem with that, something is wrong.
It’s so sweet and nice to talk about what “should” bed and how no civilians should ever be victims.
It’s also incredibly childish and naive. [/quote]
Atleast I tried to offer an solution.
But we can turn this on its head. How should the palestinians react to Israels wall and the fact that they live in a ghetto, Instead of rockets, what are theire alternative?
I will respond tomorrow because its 02.27 at night over here.
[/quote]
No problem. I will explain why a one or two state solution is tantamount to suicide for Israeli Jews, as well.
One state:
Palestinians will comprise the majority of the population. Palestinians have a history of doing things like democratically electing Hamas.
Two state:
Palestinians by their own admission will never concede Israel’s right to exist, will demand ‘right of return’(to a place they’ve never been to) for the Palestinian descendants of everyone in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. A two state solution will require Israel to be cut in two(land corridor linking WB and Gaza) and have no defensible borders.
NOTE: The League of Nations(UN predecessor) already created a ‘Palestinian state’ called Jordan. All Palestinians in WB/East Jerusalem were given Jordanian citizenship.
Jordan is THE Palestinian state. The overwhelming majority of the population are Palestinians. The resettlement of Palestinians to Jordan would end the whole problem. No population ‘exchanges’ would not be necessary as Jews have already been forcibly expelled from every Muslim country in the Middle East. A similar resettlement of Greeks from Turkey occured without violence or fifth generation refugees demanding right of return(to a place they’ve lived in continuously for over 4000 years).
On refugees after WWII: At the close of WWII there were over 400 million refugees in Europe alone. They were all resettled within three years without the need for their great grandchildren to demand ‘right of return’ and use suicide bombers etc.[/quote]
This is a paralell universe. Never met anyone who think resettlement of the entire palestinian population is a good idea.
Okay, so if the native americans grow strong enough to resettle you in europa, you would be okay with that?
But we can turn this on its head. How should the palestinians react to Israels wall and the fact that they live in a ghetto, Instead of rockets, what are theire alternative?[/quote]
In other words, from reading what you have written, if Israel strikes against the Palestinians to prevent their civilians from getting killed, it’s wrong? When the Palestinians launch attacks with the sole aim to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible, it is not wrong? Is that what I am reading?
Palestinians are living behind a wall to stop suicide bombers from killing Israeli civilians. Hamas is a master at forcing Israel’s hand through violence and then saying “look at poor me.” Had there not been a series of devistating suicide attacks throughout the 90’s when the peace process was going on, the Palestinians probably would not be living behind a wall.
A peace process was in the works, Hamas smashed it.
They have no alternative besides fireing rockets into civilian areas? WTMF?
[quote]florelius wrote:
2. What sexmachine is saying is just an opinion and not a fact, and that israel launched the attack on Gaza
well knowing the death and terror that would follow such an attack.[/quote]
What should Israel have done to stop the rocket bombardment? Don’t you think the rocket bombardment was done knowing Israel would eventually be forced to retaliate ‘and death and terror would follow?’
p.s. I accidently hit “report the post” instead of “quote the post” but I backed out of it. So if your post was reported, I did not mean it…[/quote]
No problem about the report incident.
When it comes to what Israel should have done, I dont know because I am not a general or similar remember, but they could have come up with another solution than collectively punish the palestinian people. Maybe sending in some special troops and snipe away those fuckers with rockets. Again I am not an military expert so if that suggestion seemed naive or just batshit idiotic, its because of that.[/quote]
Thank you for your candor about not knowing what to do. The Palestinians in Gaza democratically elected Hamas knowing fully well what Hamas was going to bring. It is difficult to have much sympathy for them being collectively punished, because that is the path they chose.
Your idea of sending special suicide troops running into Gaza to find rocket launchers is insane. The safest way to go in there is behind heavy armor. Sending troops and tanks to fight their way into and back out of Gaza would have been much more destructive.
[quote]florelius wrote:
When it comes to what Israel should have done, I dont know because I am not a general or similar remember, but they could have come up with another solution than collectively punish the palestinian people. Maybe sending in some special troops and snipe away those fuckers with rockets. Again I am not an military expert so if that suggestion seemed naive or just batshit idiotic, its because of that.
[/quote]
So, you condemn their actions, but offer no solutions, or solutions which you yourself admit may be “naive or just batshit idiotic.”
If you don’t see a problem with that, something is wrong.
It’s so sweet and nice to talk about what “should” bed and how no civilians should ever be victims.
It’s also incredibly childish and naive. [/quote]
Atleast I tried to offer an solution.
But we can turn this on its head. How should the palestinians react to Israels wall and the fact that they live in a ghetto, Instead of rockets, what are theire alternative?[/quote]
Define ‘ghetto’. In light of the fact that Gaza is replete with mansions and polo fields how is it a ‘ghetto’?
I will respond tomorrow because its 02.27 at night over here.
[/quote]
No problem. I will explain why a one or two state solution is tantamount to suicide for Israeli Jews, as well.
One state:
Palestinians will comprise the majority of the population. Palestinians have a history of doing things like democratically electing Hamas.
Two state:
Palestinians by their own admission will never concede Israel’s right to exist, will demand ‘right of return’(to a place they’ve never been to) for the Palestinian descendants of everyone in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. A two state solution will require Israel to be cut in two(land corridor linking WB and Gaza) and have no defensible borders.
NOTE: The League of Nations(UN predecessor) already created a ‘Palestinian state’ called Jordan. All Palestinians in WB/East Jerusalem were given Jordanian citizenship.
Jordan is THE Palestinian state. The overwhelming majority of the population are Palestinians. The resettlement of Palestinians to Jordan would end the whole problem. No population ‘exchanges’ would not be necessary as Jews have already been forcibly expelled from every Muslim country in the Middle East. A similar resettlement of Greeks from Turkey occured without violence or fifth generation refugees demanding right of return(to a place they’ve lived in continuously for over 4000 years).
On refugees after WWII: At the close of WWII there were over 400 million refugees in Europe alone. They were all resettled within three years without the need for their great grandchildren to demand ‘right of return’ and use suicide bombers etc.[/quote]
This is a paralell universe. Never met anyone who think resettlement of the entire palestinian population is a good idea.
Okay, so if the native americans grow strong enough to resettle you in europa, you would be okay with that? [/quote]
I’m an Australian of Irish descent. My people were forcibly resettled here and used as slave labour(the aboriginals weren’t). I don’t hold any resentment towards the British and I don’t demand ‘right of return’ to Ireland.
‘Phobia’. From the Greek ‘phobos’ - a morbid(irrational) fear. I don’t fear Muslims. If I did my fear would be based on their ‘above average’ propensity for murdering people based on their ethnicity/religion, not irrationality.
And the christians didn’t have nutjobs that do/did stupid shit. Webro babtist come to mind. Please tell me I can lump all christians into that group. Or let me lump you all into believing that on saturday the world is going to end.[/quote]
Christians don’t cut peoples’ heads off and blow people up on a daily basis then claim religious justification for such actions. Come to think of it, I can’t recall any Christian terrorist groups who do such things. In fact, I can’t recall a Christian terrorist group.[/quote]
I can give you a Christian terrorist group, THE US MARINES!!![/quote]
You mean the group which also has Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Gnostics, etc, as part of it’s fighting force?
Good grief, are you really this fucking stupid? or is this some kind of shit stupid act that you like to put on?
[/quote]
Forgive me, i didn’t mean they are a Christian terrorist group, I meant they are AMERICAN terrorist group![/quote]
Really? Have you ever met a Marine? You don’t want people to group you with a catch basin term like “terrorist” but you go right ahead and return the favour. I have family in the Marines, my cousin was killed protecting a medical convoy transporting supplies for civilians, of course this was after his company dug out around a girls’ school that was under constant threat from Taliban insurgency.
I understand that the Palestine-Israeli situation is not as black and white as many people make it out to be but you fail to make a legitimate point when you fall into the mold of “us against the Other”. You exemplify the very thing that you argue against.
And the christians didn’t have nutjobs that do/did stupid shit. Webro babtist come to mind. Please tell me I can lump all christians into that group. Or let me lump you all into believing that on saturday the world is going to end.[/quote]
Christians don’t cut peoples’ heads off and blow people up on a daily basis then claim religious justification for such actions. Come to think of it, I can’t recall any Christian terrorist groups who do such things. In fact, I can’t recall a Christian terrorist group.[/quote]
I can give you a Christian terrorist group, THE US MARINES!!![/quote]
You mean the group which also has Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Gnostics, etc, as part of it’s fighting force?
Good grief, are you really this fucking stupid? or is this some kind of shit stupid act that you like to put on?
[/quote]
Forgive me, i didn’t mean they are a Christian terrorist group, I meant they are AMERICAN terrorist group![/quote]
Really? Have you ever met a Marine? You don’t want people to group you with a catch basin term like “terrorist” but you go right ahead and return the favour. I have family in the Marines, my cousin was killed protecting a medical convoy transporting supplies for civilians, of course this was after his company dug out around a girls’ school that was under constant threat from Taliban insurgency.
I understand that the Palestine-Israeli situation is not as black and white as many people make it out to be but you fail to make a legitimate point when you fall into the mold of “us against the Other”. You exemplify the very thing that you argue against.[/quote]
You’re talking to a 22-year-old Arab from Gaza who believes the media is controlled by Freemasons. Anything you say is a Freemason lie/conspiracy. How’s that for ‘black and white’?
Try to read about the “Illuminati” and you will get the whole picture, it’s about a new world order from Israel to Iraq. That explains why the media is brainwashing the world to hate Arabs, so when Arabs get killed in Palestine or Iraq people won’t sympathize with them. because they are terrorists they deserve to die. [/quote]
Try to watch this video and open your mind a little.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Why don’t they quit this dribbling settlement deal and just take the rest of the land already? [/quote]
Well, we don’t own the private land where people live. The land in Judea that is a “settlement” is land that was purchased from private landowners — waste land really. No one was kicked off anything.
Well, it’s not a creeping occupation. We’ve never taken more land since the arabs invaded in 1967 – we’ve only given up land incrementally.
I tend to agree, Israel as a nation might have been strategically and militarily better off being extremely harsh, instead of half measures, but, we, as a nation, have an obligation to be just and fair, even when we are no so treated, and even though we get no “credit” for doing so.
Remember, most of our nation was the product of expulsions from arab lands and from the Shoa. It is part of our mind set to do right by all, even when they do not do right by us.
The arabs in Judea and Sameria have been extremely poorly treated by their native countries — Egypt, Syria, and Jordan. They came to Israel looking for a better life, at the invitation of our forefathers. They hate us, not for any intrinsic reason, but for the same reason an attack dog hates strangers – they were trained to do so.
It’s a Biblical injunction to reach such people and to raise them from the depth others have forced them.
Strategically and militarily stupid? Yes. But Israel is, at it’s heart, a Biblical nation.
Try to read about the “Illuminati” and you will get the whole picture, it’s about a new world order from Israel to Iraq. That explains why the media is brainwashing the world to hate Arabs, so when Arabs get killed in Palestine or Iraq people won’t sympathize with them. because they are terrorists they deserve to die. [/quote]
Try to watch this video and open your mind a little.
I served with arab guys like that in the IDF. Just guys, like anyone else.
The girl in this picture is a combat medic in the IDF with one of my daughter. She’s an arab Christian who loves her country of Israel.
