I don’t know if this has been asked yet but were they drunk? It was the night before his wedding and they were leaving a club so that could be a factor.
One lesson here is this: if you have two young kids and are married, or soon to be, you might want to exercise good judgement and avoid places like shady clubs. He had a car so he could have gone to some place a little more respectable.
[quote]Dirty Tiger wrote:
Is it a crime to keep a gun in your vehicle in NYC?
[/quote]
No, the law is:
“A loaded handgun may be carried in a vehicle by a properly licensed individual.”
[quote]PGA wrote:
Dirty Tiger wrote:
Is it a crime to keep a gun in your vehicle in NYC?
No, the law is:
“A loaded handgun may be carried in a vehicle by a properly licensed individual.”[/quote]
Most regular people cannot get a carry permit in NYC.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Most regular people cannot get a carry permit in NYC.[/quote]
Of course. But thats not the issue here or the question he asked, Zap.
[quote]PGA wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Most regular people cannot get a carry permit in NYC.
Of course. But thats not the issue here or the question he asked, Zap.[/quote]
Of course it is relevant. If the guy was talking about having a gun in the car in NYC it is likely the cop would assume it was illegal. In most other states the cop would not automatically make that assumption.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
NDM wrote:
Digital Chainsaw wrote:
NDM wrote:
I could understand they were afraid and tried to run. That doesn’t make what the cops did wrong though.
My head is about to explode.
How the fucking fuck can you hold both of these ideas to be true simultaneously?
Wait, Go Heavy, is that you?
Both parties thought the other person was going to kill them. They both had “the right” to protect themselves, if the officer DID NOT identify himself. In either case, I don’t think what anyone did was “wrong”. If the cop did identify himself, then Sean Bell was wrong. No matter what, the police responded how they should have to the situation. Do you understand now? Or do I have to get my 6 year old niece to explain it to you?
Dude, if it does come to light that the police did NOT identify themselves before it was too late (something that was clearly not mentioned in the very long and detailed verbal description given in the video with that article), then they are at fault if they kill some guys for reacting to what they thought was a threat on their own lives.
I personally don’t know your experiences in life. However, I do know if I were in that situation and a guy in regular clothes began to circle my car, I would expect a confrontation. It makes little sense that a cop from inside the club doing undercover work was now so clearly a “cop” upon exiting the club. The reaction of the guys as far as how they tried to get away screams that they were trying to get away from a situation quickly. That would make little sense if they understood they were simply about to be questioned by cops.
I just don’t see how that wouldn’t be the first possible scenario that would pop into someone’s head over this. It would take some major massaging of the facts and stereotyping to think that these guys, one about to be married the next day, decided they would just run over a cop for no damn reason. One scenario simply makes more sense than the other one.
Sure, we still need all of the facts, but blind following of whatever cops say in situations that seem to be telling us something else is just plain stupid.
That doesn’t have anything to do with cop hatred.
These guys had a verbal confrontation outside of a club where the words, “yo, go get my gun” were a part of the exchange. Nothing physical even happened. No one got hit. Please explain to me when it is the cop’s job to get involved when no one called them, no gun was actually seen, and no punches were actually thrown all because of talk.
It sounds like the cops got bored with their strip club investigation and decided to turn all of their attention on these guys and overreacted. If that is what happened, how is it wrong to shine a light on it? I now have to worry about every word uttered publicly for fear that a cop may take it the wrong way undercover?[/quote]
I understand this point of view. Really. What I am doing is providing another point of view on the situation.
Have there been any updates on this story yet?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Of course it is relevant. If the guy was talking about having a gun in the car in NYC it is likely the cop would assume it was illegal. In most other states the cop would not automatically make that assumption.
[/quote]
I have 2 friends in the city that carry. While it took time it wasnt too too difficult.
Here is the process
“The determination whether to grant the license has been held to be completely within the discretion of the licensing officer. However, the licensing officer must state “specifically and concisely” in writing the reasons for such denial. A denial can be overturned in court only if shown to be “arbitrary and capricious.” In Westchester County the applicant must have successfully completed a firearms safety course and test. A license may be granted to an applicant who is of good moral character, over the age of 21 years, has not been convicted of a “serious offense,” (This includes misdemeanors and violations as set forth in Section 265.00, Subd. 17, PL.) states if and when he has ever been treated for mental illness and as to whom “no good cause exists for the denial of the license.” The age requirement shall not apply to persons honorably discharged from the military. Persons between age 18 and 20 may possess and use a handgun at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the NRA and while under the immediate supervision, guidance and instruction of a certified instruction and while possessing or using the instructor’s licensed handgun.”
[quote]NDM wrote:
In this particular post, yea, I was very blunt. Another poster who seemed to agree with the OP said that the first officer had his badge out in the open when he approached the car. You would think the driver would see that.
[/quote]
I believe I’m the only one who stated that the officer who stepped in front of the vehicle had his badge visible. I also stated that I believed the officers were not going to be found at fault, even though, with the information provided, their tactics were bad.
How is that agreeing or disagreeing with the OP? Because you are taking everything personal and attacking everything you don’t agree with? Because I added playful banter at the end?
I don’t recall if you said you are in Law Enforcement or not, but I am. For a long time. Nobody on the board is calling for anarchy or death to police. They are just giving their opinion using the provided information.
People dislike cops in the same manner as they dislike lawyers and scrutiny and jokes of both go hand in hand. So what, deal with it like a professional.
The moment you take it personal and start ranting and blindly defending, you end up looking like a fool.
State your opinions and relax. Enjoy the boards.
[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
I believe I’m the only one who stated that the officer who stepped in front of the vehicle had his badge visible. I also stated that I believed the officers were not going to be found at fault, even though, with the information provided, their tactics were bad.
How is that agreeing or disagreeing with the OP? Because you are taking everything personal and attacking everything you don’t agree with? Because I added playful banter at the end?
I don’t recall if you said you are in Law Enforcement or not, but I am. For a long time. Nobody on the board is calling for anarchy or death to police. They are just giving their opinion using the provided information.
People dislike cops in the same manner as they dislike lawyers and scrutiny and jokes of both go hand in hand. So what, deal with it like a professional.
The moment you take it personal and start ranting and blindly defending, you end up looking like a fool.
State your opinions and relax. Enjoy the boards.
[/quote]
Yeah, listen to the pig!
[quote]PGA wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Of course it is relevant. If the guy was talking about having a gun in the car in NYC it is likely the cop would assume it was illegal. In most other states the cop would not automatically make that assumption.
I have 2 friends in the city that carry. While it took time it wasnt too too difficult.
Here is the process
“The determination whether to grant the license has been held to be completely within the discretion of the licensing officer. However, the licensing officer must state “specifically and concisely” in writing the reasons for such denial. A denial can be overturned in court only if shown to be “arbitrary and capricious.” In Westchester County the applicant must have successfully completed a firearms safety course and test. A license may be granted to an applicant who is of good moral character, over the age of 21 years, has not been convicted of a “serious offense,” (This includes misdemeanors and violations as set forth in Section 265.00, Subd. 17, PL.) states if and when he has ever been treated for mental illness and as to whom “no good cause exists for the denial of the license.” The age requirement shall not apply to persons honorably discharged from the military. Persons between age 18 and 20 may possess and use a handgun at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the NRA and while under the immediate supervision, guidance and instruction of a certified instruction and while possessing or using the instructor’s licensed handgun.”[/quote]
I found it very difficult and expensive to get a permit to carry in the city. Need a lawyer and may need some time in court.
My PA. CCW was $20 and took less then a week.
[quote]hedo wrote:
PGA wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Of course it is relevant. If the guy was talking about having a gun in the car in NYC it is likely the cop would assume it was illegal. In most other states the cop would not automatically make that assumption.
I have 2 friends in the city that carry. While it took time it wasnt too too difficult.
Here is the process
“The determination whether to grant the license has been held to be completely within the discretion of the licensing officer. However, the licensing officer must state “specifically and concisely” in writing the reasons for such denial. A denial can be overturned in court only if shown to be “arbitrary and capricious.” In Westchester County the applicant must have successfully completed a firearms safety course and test. A license may be granted to an applicant who is of good moral character, over the age of 21 years, has not been convicted of a “serious offense,” (This includes misdemeanors and violations as set forth in Section 265.00, Subd. 17, PL.) states if and when he has ever been treated for mental illness and as to whom “no good cause exists for the denial of the license.” The age requirement shall not apply to persons honorably discharged from the military. Persons between age 18 and 20 may possess and use a handgun at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the NRA and while under the immediate supervision, guidance and instruction of a certified instruction and while possessing or using the instructor’s licensed handgun.”
I found it very difficult and expensive to get a permit to carry in the city. Need a lawyer and may need some time in court.
My PA. CCW was $20 and took less then a week.
[/quote]
You’re out of state correct?
[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
NDM wrote:
In this particular post, yea, I was very blunt. Another poster who seemed to agree with the OP said that the first officer had his badge out in the open when he approached the car. You would think the driver would see that.
I believe I’m the only one who stated that the officer who stepped in front of the vehicle had his badge visible. I also stated that I believed the officers were not going to be found at fault, even though, with the information provided, their tactics were bad.
How is that agreeing or disagreeing with the OP? Because you are taking everything personal and attacking everything you don’t agree with? Because I added playful banter at the end?
I don’t recall if you said you are in Law Enforcement or not, but I am. For a long time. Nobody on the board is calling for anarchy or death to police. They are just giving their opinion using the provided information.
People dislike cops in the same manner as they dislike lawyers and scrutiny and jokes of both go hand in hand. So what, deal with it like a professional.
The moment you take it personal and start ranting and blindly defending, you end up looking like a fool.
State your opinions and relax. Enjoy the boards.
[/quote]
I was basing my opinion on the information provided as well. It was just different than other’s opinions on this board. You know what, I do get pissed off when people refer to cops as pigs. That’s the only reason I had a problem with the OP. Everyone has their own opinion, but when you start calling cops pigs, you’re looking for a reaction, and it’s not going to be a good one.
For the record, I only made an attack on one person. A counterpoint to an argument is not attacking anyone.
I’m curious, what area of law enforcement are you currently in? Are you a cop, customs, immigration? What?
[quote]PGA wrote:
…
I have 2 friends in the city that carry. While it took time it wasnt too too difficult.
…[/quote]
I know a number of people that have tried and failed to get carry permits in NYC. All good people with no criminal past.
I have read of even more problems.
You are the only person I have ever seen claim it is not too difficult.
[quote]NDM wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:
NDM wrote:
In this particular post, yea, I was very blunt. Another poster who seemed to agree with the OP said that the first officer had his badge out in the open when he approached the car. You would think the driver would see that.
I believe I’m the only one who stated that the officer who stepped in front of the vehicle had his badge visible. I also stated that I believed the officers were not going to be found at fault, even though, with the information provided, their tactics were bad.
How is that agreeing or disagreeing with the OP? Because you are taking everything personal and attacking everything you don’t agree with? Because I added playful banter at the end?
I don’t recall if you said you are in Law Enforcement or not, but I am. For a long time. Nobody on the board is calling for anarchy or death to police. They are just giving their opinion using the provided information.
People dislike cops in the same manner as they dislike lawyers and scrutiny and jokes of both go hand in hand. So what, deal with it like a professional.
The moment you take it personal and start ranting and blindly defending, you end up looking like a fool.
State your opinions and relax. Enjoy the boards.
I was basing my opinion on the information provided as well. It was just different than other’s opinions on this board. You know what, I do get pissed off when people refer to cops as pigs. That’s the only reason I had a problem with the OP. Everyone has their own opinion, but when you start calling cops pigs, you’re looking for a reaction, and it’s not going to be a good one.
For the record, I only made an attack on one person. A counterpoint to an argument is not attacking anyone.
I’m curious, what area of law enforcement are you currently in? Are you a cop, customs, immigration? What?[/quote]
Nevermind. I just looked at your profile. I didn’t think you were a cop.
[quote]hedo wrote:
PGA wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Of course it is relevant. If the guy was talking about having a gun in the car in NYC it is likely the cop would assume it was illegal. In most other states the cop would not automatically make that assumption.
I have 2 friends in the city that carry. While it took time it wasnt too too difficult.
Here is the process
“The determination whether to grant the license has been held to be completely within the discretion of the licensing officer. However, the licensing officer must state “specifically and concisely” in writing the reasons for such denial. A denial can be overturned in court only if shown to be “arbitrary and capricious.” In Westchester County the applicant must have successfully completed a firearms safety course and test. A license may be granted to an applicant who is of good moral character, over the age of 21 years, has not been convicted of a “serious offense,” (This includes misdemeanors and violations as set forth in Section 265.00, Subd. 17, PL.) states if and when he has ever been treated for mental illness and as to whom “no good cause exists for the denial of the license.” The age requirement shall not apply to persons honorably discharged from the military. Persons between age 18 and 20 may possess and use a handgun at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the NRA and while under the immediate supervision, guidance and instruction of a certified instruction and while possessing or using the instructor’s licensed handgun.”
I found it very difficult and expensive to get a permit to carry in the city. Need a lawyer and may need some time in court.
My PA. CCW was $20 and took less then a week.
[/quote]
A girl I know is an Assistant District Attorney in Manhattan who works for the sex crimes division.
SHE can’t get a carry permit.
Virtually the only people who have carry permits in Manhattan are celebrities.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I know a number of people that have tried and failed to get carry permits in NYC. All good people with no criminal past.
I have read of even more problems.
You are the only person I have ever seen claim it is not too difficult.
[/quote]
I’m not saying its a walk in the park it really just took them longer than anywhere else. If your out of state, or out of city (I think), that makes it much more difficult.
[quote]PGA wrote:
hedo wrote:
PGA wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Of course it is relevant. If the guy was talking about having a gun in the car in NYC it is likely the cop would assume it was illegal. In most other states the cop would not automatically make that assumption.
I have 2 friends in the city that carry. While it took time it wasnt too too difficult.
Here is the process
“The determination whether to grant the license has been held to be completely within the discretion of the licensing officer. However, the licensing officer must state “specifically and concisely” in writing the reasons for such denial. A denial can be overturned in court only if shown to be “arbitrary and capricious.” In Westchester County the applicant must have successfully completed a firearms safety course and test. A license may be granted to an applicant who is of good moral character, over the age of 21 years, has not been convicted of a “serious offense,” (This includes misdemeanors and violations as set forth in Section 265.00, Subd. 17, PL.) states if and when he has ever been treated for mental illness and as to whom “no good cause exists for the denial of the license.” The age requirement shall not apply to persons honorably discharged from the military. Persons between age 18 and 20 may possess and use a handgun at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the NRA and while under the immediate supervision, guidance and instruction of a certified instruction and while possessing or using the instructor’s licensed handgun.”
I found it very difficult and expensive to get a permit to carry in the city. Need a lawyer and may need some time in court.
My PA. CCW was $20 and took less then a week.
You’re out of state correct?[/quote]
I got my NYC CCW when I was a resident. I have since moved.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
Virtually the only people who have carry permits in Manhattan are celebrities.
[/quote]
I have to ammend to my earlier statements. The two friends are “known.” So that must have contributed to their permits.
Thanks, Harris.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
A girl I know is an Assistant District Attorney in Manhattan who works for the sex crimes division.
SHE can’t get a carry permit.
Virtually the only people who have carry permits in Manhattan are celebrities.
[/quote]
That has always been my impression. My friend and my cousin were both denies their carry permits when they lived in Manhattan. They both said that everyone else they knew that applied got turned down as well.
Is it different in the other boroughs?
I know some counties upstate used to be pretty easy while other counties were far more difficult.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
harris447 wrote:
A girl I know is an Assistant District Attorney in Manhattan who works for the sex crimes division.
SHE can’t get a carry permit.
Virtually the only people who have carry permits in Manhattan are celebrities.
That has always been my impression. My friend and my cousin were both denies their carry permits when they lived in Manhattan. They both said that everyone else they knew that applied got turned down as well.
Is it different in the other boroughs?
I know some counties upstate used to be pretty easy while other counties were far more difficult.
[/quote]
I had to hire a well connected lawyer and call in a favor from an equally well connected politcal contact. Somebody fairly high up in the police department has to bless it.