[quote]Neospartan wrote:
The problem here is that NOBODY understand what is going on inside Iran. And those who do cannot speak becasue AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) is determined to paint Iran as evil as posible.
The real question is:
How should the US deal with Iran and its nuclean ambisions?
The answer is:
Fund, support, and encourage the POLITICAL OPPOSITION in Iran. Ahmadinejad and Khamenei are in power because they unleashed the police, secret police, and the Revolutionary Guard/Basij militia on the people protesting the fixed election results in 2009. And they still keep their foot on the political opposition.
The majority of the population in Iran is under the age of 35. They DO NOT want to die for Khamenei or any other Ayatollah, like their fathers and uncles did in the Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988.
[/quote]
In theory, I agree with you.
In practice, the last time America supported an Iranian regime, they savagely threw him out, took the American embassy hostage, and re-started a bloody and shameful religious pogram that continues to this day. All with the popular support of the parents of the martyrs of the green revolution.
America should leave the Iranian citizens to lay in the bed they made in 1979.[/quote]
The United States sponsored coup d’etat in Iran of August 19, 1953, has emerged as a critical event in postwar world history. The government of Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddeq which was ousted in the coup was the last popular, democratically oriented government to hold office in Iran. The regime replacing it was a dictatorship that suppressed all forms of popular political activity, producing tensions that contributed greatly to the 1978-1979 Iranian revolution. If Mosaddeq had not been overthrown, the revolution might not have occurred. The 1953 coup also marked the first peacetime use of covert action by the United States to overthrow a foreign government. As such, it was an important precedent for events like the 1954 coup in Guatemala and the 1973 overthrow of Salvador Allende in Chile(1), and made the United States a key target of the Iranian revolution.
Israel is armed to the teeth with nukes let them have their own little cold war and lets be done with it.
If we are pushing for war with Iran let me ask, how are you going to pay for it? You going to come and take my money to pay for that? This has always baffled me, how can conservatives talk about how the left is stealing from people to pay for social projects then turn around and rob me to fight undeclared unconstitutional wars.
You really are not getting what’s goin on here. Nothing you’ve just said is applicable to somebody who believes God is telling them what to do. It’s makes no difference what YOU believe. To THEM the debate is over. They don’t care about winning or dying. They only care about obedience.[/quote]
If this is true, why do you think Iran has not attacked Israel yet? They have no nuclear weapons, but I’m sure they have plenty of conventional weapons that could do all sorts of damage. At least enough damage to garner a military response from Israel.
If they (religious/government leaders) want to sacrifice themselves for Allah, why wait? They could have their virgins tomorrow.
You really are not getting what’s goin on here. Nothing you’ve just said is applicable to somebody who believes God is telling them what to do. It’s makes no difference what YOU believe. To THEM the debate is over. They don’t care about winning or dying. They only care about obedience.[/quote]
If this is true, why do you think Iran has not attacked Israel yet? They have no nuclear weapons, but I’m sure they have plenty of conventional weapons that could do all sorts of damage. At least enough damage to garner a military response from Israel.
If they (religious/government leaders) want to sacrifice themselves for Allah, why wait? They could have their virgins tomorrow.[/quote]
Iran does attack my country, through proxies in Gaza, Lebanon, and Syia. It has armed the various fanatics with Scuds and was the supplier of the missles that rained down on Sderot and other towns. We are at war.
Iran supplied the money for the bomber that killed my wife and unborn daughter.
Currently, Iran has little ability to project its power directly. Its missles cannot reach very far. It has no airforce to speak of, as pilots tend to be well-educated and get the Hell out of Iran (basically the entire airforce packed up and left when Jimmy Carter betrayed the Shah and permitted the revolution to occur).
Iran is working on ballistic missles with sufficient lifting ability to deliver nukes.
The second Iran gets a nuke with the means to deliver, it will use it on Tel-Aviv.
We will respond massively to all who remotely are allied with Iran or are fellow travelers.
I am not a government spokesman, but it is common knowledge that Israel has plenty of ICBMS, sub-launched nukes, cruise missles, and the like, together with biological weapons that will makes sure anyone who crawls out of their hole with die a painful death shortly thereafter. Everything from anti-biotic resistant plague and cholera to crop diseases to superflu.
The near-east will cease to exist as a habitable region, and Europe and Asia will be heavily affected by fallout and disease.
We fucking invented the nuclear bomb for the USA. Don’t think we haven’t been cooking up shit for the last 60 years.
You really are not getting what’s goin on here. Nothing you’ve just said is applicable to somebody who believes God is telling them what to do. It’s makes no difference what YOU believe. To THEM the debate is over. They don’t care about winning or dying. They only care about obedience.[/quote]
If this is true, why do you think Iran has not attacked Israel yet? They have no nuclear weapons, but I’m sure they have plenty of conventional weapons that could do all sorts of damage. At least enough damage to garner a military response from Israel.
If they (religious/government leaders) want to sacrifice themselves for Allah, why wait? They could have their virgins tomorrow.[/quote]
LOL - Dustin, you know better than this! There are a group who seek martyrdom as their means of service to Allah, but there are also those who would seek conventional war as their “jihad”. But the goal - the overarching theme is to establish the rule of Allah over the world. Thus anyone who is actively planning, working towards and trying to acheive this ends nby whatever means is fulfilling Allah’s will. Death is not the goal, service to Allah in establishing a global Dar al-Islam is the goal
You really are not getting what’s goin on here. Nothing you’ve just said is applicable to somebody who believes God is telling them what to do. It’s makes no difference what YOU believe. To THEM the debate is over. They don’t care about winning or dying. They only care about obedience.[/quote]
If this is true, why do you think Iran has not attacked Israel yet? They have no nuclear weapons, but I’m sure they have plenty of conventional weapons that could do all sorts of damage. At least enough damage to garner a military response from Israel.
If they (religious/government leaders) want to sacrifice themselves for Allah, why wait? They could have their virgins tomorrow.[/quote]
Iran does attack my country, through proxies in Gaza, Lebanon, and Syia. It has armed the various fanatics with Scuds and was the supplier of the missles that rained down on Sderot and other towns. We are at war.
Iran supplied the money for the bomber that killed my wife and unborn daughter.
Currently, Iran has little ability to project its power directly. Its missles cannot reach very far. It has no airforce to speak of, as pilots tend to be well-educated and get the Hell out of Iran (basically the entire airforce packed up and left when Jimmy Carter betrayed the Shah and permitted the revolution to occur).
Iran is working on ballistic missles with sufficient lifting ability to deliver nukes.
The second Iran gets a nuke with the means to deliver, it will use it on Tel-Aviv.
We will respond massively to all who remotely are allied with Iran or are fellow travelers.
I am not a government spokesman, but it is common knowledge that Israel has plenty of ICBMS, sub-launched nukes, cruise missles, and the like, together with biological weapons that will makes sure anyone who crawls out of their hole with die a painful death shortly thereafter. Everything from anti-biotic resistant plague and cholera to crop diseases to superflu.
The near-east will cease to exist as a habitable region, and Europe and Asia will be heavily affected by fallout and disease.
We fucking invented the nuclear bomb for the USA. Don’t think we haven’t been cooking up shit for the last 60 years.[/quote]
There were a lot of Jews working on the manhattan Project. Albert Einstien was one of them.
You really are not getting what’s goin on here. Nothing you’ve just said is applicable to somebody who believes God is telling them what to do. It’s makes no difference what YOU believe. To THEM the debate is over. They don’t care about winning or dying. They only care about obedience.[/quote]
If this is true, why do you think Iran has not attacked Israel yet? They have no nuclear weapons, but I’m sure they have plenty of conventional weapons that could do all sorts of damage. At least enough damage to garner a military response from Israel.
If they (religious/government leaders) want to sacrifice themselves for Allah, why wait? They could have their virgins tomorrow.[/quote]
Iran does attack my country, through proxies in Gaza, Lebanon, and Syia. It has armed the various fanatics with Scuds and was the supplier of the missles that rained down on Sderot and other towns. We are at war.
Iran supplied the money for the bomber that killed my wife and unborn daughter.
Currently, Iran has little ability to project its power directly. Its missles cannot reach very far. It has no airforce to speak of, as pilots tend to be well-educated and get the Hell out of Iran (basically the entire airforce packed up and left when Jimmy Carter betrayed the Shah and permitted the revolution to occur).
Iran is working on ballistic missles with sufficient lifting ability to deliver nukes.
The second Iran gets a nuke with the means to deliver, it will use it on Tel-Aviv.
We will respond massively to all who remotely are allied with Iran or are fellow travelers.
I am not a government spokesman, but it is common knowledge that Israel has plenty of ICBMS, sub-launched nukes, cruise missles, and the like, together with biological weapons that will makes sure anyone who crawls out of their hole with die a painful death shortly thereafter. Everything from anti-biotic resistant plague and cholera to crop diseases to superflu.
The near-east will cease to exist as a habitable region, and Europe and Asia will be heavily affected by fallout and disease.
We fucking invented the nuclear bomb for the USA. Don’t think we haven’t been cooking up shit for the last 60 years.[/quote]
There were a lot of Jews working on the manhattan Project. Albert Einstien was one of them.[/quote]
Albert Einstein has never worked on the manhattan project.
I am not a government spokesman, but it is common knowledge that Israel has plenty of ICBMS, sub-launched nukes, cruise missles, and the like, together with biological weapons that will makes sure anyone who crawls out of their hole with die a painful death shortly thereafter. Everything from anti-biotic resistant plague and cholera to crop diseases to superflu.
The near-east will cease to exist as a habitable region, and Europe and Asia will be heavily affected by fallout and disease.
[/quote]
I am not a government spokesman, but it is common knowledge that Israel has plenty of ICBMS, sub-launched nukes, cruise missles, and the like, together with biological weapons that will makes sure anyone who crawls out of their hole with die a painful death shortly thereafter. Everything from anti-biotic resistant plague and cholera to crop diseases to superflu.
The near-east will cease to exist as a habitable region, and Europe and Asia will be heavily affected by fallout and disease.
[/quote]
If that is not evil then nothing is…[/quote]
Yeah, Jewish people are supposed to die quietly in concentration camps. I forgot.
Sorry, all the wimpy Jews live in the USA and vote for Obama. The rest of us aren’t going to go quietly this time.
I am not a government spokesman, but it is common knowledge that Israel has plenty of ICBMS, sub-launched nukes, cruise missles, and the like, together with biological weapons that will makes sure anyone who crawls out of their hole with die a painful death shortly thereafter. Everything from anti-biotic resistant plague and cholera to crop diseases to superflu.
The near-east will cease to exist as a habitable region, and Europe and Asia will be heavily affected by fallout and disease.
[/quote]
If that is not evil then nothing is…[/quote]
I noticed you forgot to include . . .
The second Iran gets a nuke with the means to deliver, it will use it on Tel-Aviv.
We will respond massively to all who remotely are allied with Iran or are fellow travelers.
I was certain this was an honest mistake, and then I read your judgment of retaliation for the merciless slaughter of millions of jews and arabs in a nuclear blast as being ultimate evil . . . then i remembered you’re an idiot . . .
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
There are a group who seek martyrdom as their means of service to Allah, but there are also those who would seek conventional war as their “jihad”. [/quote]
So which category does the Iranian leadership fall under?
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
6. We will respond massively to all who remotely are allied with Iran or are fellow travelers.
[/quote]
I’ll quote John S.
If we are pushing for war with Iran let me ask, how are you going to pay for it? You going to come and take my money to pay for that? This has always baffled me, how can conservatives talk about how the left is stealing from people to pay for social projects then turn around and rob me to fight undeclared unconstitutional wars.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
6. We will respond massively to all who remotely are allied with Iran or are fellow travelers.
[/quote]
I’ll quote John S.
If we are pushing for war with Iran let me ask, how are you going to pay for it? You going to come and take my money to pay for that? This has always baffled me, how can conservatives talk about how the left is stealing from people to pay for social projects then turn around and rob me to fight undeclared unconstitutional wars. [/quote]
context - Jewbacca is speaking as an Israeli, not an American . . .
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
6. We will respond massively to all who remotely are allied with Iran or are fellow travelers.
[/quote]
I’ll quote John S.
If we are pushing for war with Iran let me ask, how are you going to pay for it? You going to come and take my money to pay for that? This has always baffled me, how can conservatives talk about how the left is stealing from people to pay for social projects then turn around and rob me to fight undeclared unconstitutional wars. [/quote]
context - Jewbacca is speaking as an Israeli, not an American . . .[/quote]
I see what you mean. You were quoting him.
However, I wouldn’t put it past the US government to get involved (by using the military) if Israel was attacked in the manner that Jewbacca was talking about.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
6. We will respond massively to all who remotely are allied with Iran or are fellow travelers.
[/quote]
I’ll quote John S.
If we are pushing for war with Iran let me ask, how are you going to pay for it? You going to come and take my money to pay for that? This has always baffled me, how can conservatives talk about how the left is stealing from people to pay for social projects then turn around and rob me to fight undeclared unconstitutional wars. [/quote]
context - Jewbacca is speaking as an Israeli, not an American . . .[/quote]
I see what you mean. You were quoting him.
However, I wouldn’t put it past the US government to get involved (by using the military) if Israel was attacked in the manner that Jewbacca was talking about.
I think John’s quote is still applicable.[/quote]
At this point I think funding will be achieved. the first use of a nuclear weapon on civilian population in 65 years—and on a major US ally—will probably guarantee some sort of response and it will be blessed in the short term by popular support… because even those who don’t like the close relationship of the US to Israel will ABHOR the use of nuclear weaponry on a civilian target. The action will be universally condemned and I think any politician will be on sufficiently solid ground with their constituency to make the vote unanimous.
At this point popular support will mean the money is not “robbed” from us, but given consensually.
However, on the wider scale and as a general principle I thoroughly agree with John S. I’ve long stated here and elsewhere that one of the only differences between neo-cons and liberals in terms of taxes is WHAT they want to grandstand for. Liberals–social programs, neocons–ad hoc, in hoc, whatever… “invade, invite…” blah blah blah or however it goes.
Obviously I believe the left has a tendency to increase spending at a faster rate, the but direction of federal spending isn’t changing between parties, only the rate and targets of fed $$.
Some of you guys are hilarious, salivating over the thought of war and war strategy like school children playing with those green, plastic soldiers in a sand box.
The whole situation is absurdly complex because we’re not just talking about a strike or even just war. We need to consider what happens afterwards as well.
If Israel strikes Iran and Israel has also accused Iran of funding Hezbollah, do you think Israel will not suffer internally? All of a sudden, fundamentalist groups will have justification for their hatred of Israel (beyond what they’ve believed for years about Israel) that Israel and Washington coordinated a NUCLEAR strike against an ISLAMIC country.
The better way to catch an opponent off guard is to approach a conflict with an angle that they were never prepared to react to. In the case of Iran, that would be funding a political opposition when Iran’s leaders are priming the population with war time propaganda in anticipation of a military conflict with Israel and/or the US.
Or are coup d’etats passe?
The majority of Iran’s populace is actually under 30 years of age, with maybe even 40% being under 25. This is due to the heavy losses during the Iran-Iraq war, during which the US gave intelligence and weapons to Iraq (and Iran as well, actually) so Iraq would destroy Iran. The US was furious about the outcome of the Iranian revolution and wanted to make Iran pay for the hostage crisis. Many Iranian men are sterile from the chemical weapons that Saddam used, so there is a large discrepancy in the population’s age distribution.
Some of you do not know your history.
If you want to hurt a country like Iran, leverage its own population’s distrust of the government there (that’s the seed that you need to nurture). Fund an opposition, make it easier for Iranian academics and professionals to LEAVE the country and work abroad (better pay, more freedoms) and cause a brain drain, as opposed to making it impossible for their brightest minds to get visas and work/live abroad. This strategy would allow the US to avoid looking like the aggressor and therefore not give Iran ammo to drum up nationalism and get the population behind Ayatollah’s wartime rhetoric. The US can only look like a bully and Israel like its vicious little pet; Washington needs to be careful not to allude to war.
And, as absurd as the Iranian government seems, they are not the Wahabi-brand of fundamentalist Islam that peppers their wartime rhetoric with talks of virgins in heaven. They laugh at that crazy Arab shit.
They have more of a conscience with regards to considerations for damage to their country due to an Israeli attack/retaliation. They don’t believe that it’s in their best interest for Israel to attack and kill people so everyone can simply go to heaven. Please stop thinking that nonsense.
Most of the young people are secular, anyway, so they don’t buy into anything the government tries to bolster with talk about God. It doesn’t really work.
And who said Iran does not have ballistic missiles? They have the Shahab series of missiles that were announced could strike Israel without a problem. The announcement came around the same time that Israel announced it would launch a pre-emptive strike against Israel to nullify the threat of a nuclear attack by Iran. This is one of the main concerns for Israel and the most likely type of strike on Israel by Iran (non-nuclear, ballistic missiles), especially if Israel launches a pre-emptive air strike.
And who said Iran does not have ballistic missiles? They have the Shahab series of missiles that were announced could strike Israel without a problem. [/quote]
They have very few Shahabs capable of making the 1,000 mile flight.
The Shahab-4 (in 3 stages) has a range of about 1,538 miles with a payload of 1,000lbs.
A primative nuke will weigh much, much more. “Fat Man” for example, came in at 10,200lbs.
Is Imanutjob close to getting the technical issues fixed? Sure. Any time now.
Jewbacca, not all Americans are panzies, you have plenty of supporters here that would stand behind you. When the dipshit in power in Iran ways that he wants Tel Aviv to burn with fire etc etc, how can these idiots think his intentions are anything else? Weird. Plus one of the biggest threats to this country is the donation of a nuke from iran to one of many crazy bastards who want to kill us, oh and 911 happened before the war in Afganistan and Iraq # 2, so I don’t think it was bushes fault, just sayin that they just like to kill us for fun!