I am a 55 year old physician, but this is not medical advice, but rather personal experience, in being hard-headed if nothing else. Lifted weights for years and then quit for reasons that made sense at the time, although not now. I started working out about 2 1/2 years ago when I finally woke up and realized that I had gotten fat and had no endurance, etc, etc. With my schedule in the ER, I could not make it to a gym, so I started with a Bowflex and Stairmaster, with very little progress. I had body weight exercises recommended to me, so I tried these. That is when the back and the Sacro-iliac joint went bad. Being a physician, I knew what I would be told, so I went to a chiropractor at which time, I got worse. Then I went to a sports medicine physician and physical therapist who told me to have an MRI.
All 5 of the lumbar discs were shot. All 5 were herniated. I had injections with no results and was prescribed medicine, including muscle relaxers, anti-inflamatories and narcotics. Still going to the chiropractor at this time. I was finally recommended to go to a neurosurgeon, which I was totally against. During this time I could not walk 10 feet without having to stop with the pain.
SO, I went to a massage therapist and against the Chiropractor and all the physician’s advise to NEVER lift weights again, I started with Squats, Deadlifts and Bench Presses with Iron weights, like I had used all my life.
Now, I work out alone, with a power rack where I will not get caught with a barbell that I cannot lift, deadlifting 450lbs 5X5, Squatting 375lbs 5X5 and Benching 250lbs 5X5. Also with MP and push-presses. I knocked off 50lbs of fat also.
So, I believe that weight-lifting will improve your core, and strengthen your back. I occasionally have to take an Advil for pain, but that is it. I recently added Kettle Bells and only one time aggravated my back while doing swings due to getting tired and not using good form (Once again, relieved only with Advil). I am not recommending this medically, but just what I did, and the results that I achieved.
I never believe anyone who tells me lifting is bad or that I shouldn’t do it. Fuck’em. I’ve heard way too many stories like the one above, where once the person disregarded physician’s advice and went back to working out hard and regularly, things miraculously worked out.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I never believe anyone who tells me lifting is bad or that I shouldn’t do it. Fuck’em. I’ve heard way too many stories like the one above, where once the person disregarded physician’s advice and went back to working out hard and regularly, things miraculously worked out.[/quote]
Or boxing, if you search around ross enamait motivational tag on his blog you find the story of a boxer who broke his neck in three places and came back to capture the world title or something like that.
Thanks for posting that. I am glad things worked out/are working out.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I never believe anyone who tells me lifting is bad or that I shouldn’t do it. Fuck’em. I’ve heard way too many stories like the one above, where once the person disregarded physician’s advice and went back to working out hard and regularly, things miraculously worked out.[/quote]
I understand the sentiment. I just think that finding an opinion you can and should trust is a more measured and advisable option. Also, sometimes it really is necessary to stop, if only in the short term.
I am late checking into this thread, so disregard any points that are no longer applicable.
First, this may not apply immediately, but I think it should be said. Miss Parker gave a good suggestion of getting a second opinion. Even if not in this case, whenever you doubt the diagnosis or treatment advice given to you by a healthcare professional seek clarification from that professional and hold it against outside research and second opinions. You need to have trust in your doctor in order to really follow advice. That trust MUST NOT BE misplaced, or the consequences can be…serious. So, prove to your own satisfaction that you are in the right hands/getting the right advice. This should be done before you start trying/having to pick and choose what advice to follow and what advice to ignore. A doctor should not take offense when asked for more explanation PRIOR to beginning treatment. It is getting told “I have not really been doing what you suggested. I am not getting better. I think that maybe______ I saw on tv is going on” every week that can be challenging.
Now the points that may actually be helpful:
1.) I am unaware of spinal length being a determining factor in your suitability to lift weights. Is it possible that you either misunderstood what your doc said (perfectly understandable), or that your doctor did a bad job explaining the condition(regretfully very common)? I can think of plenty of anatomical conditions that are contra indications to weight training, but long spine short limbs are not one of them (as noted by a different poster). If there is a reason your doctor thinks that you should not weight train, what is it (the more technical the better here)?
2.) Sort of going off of point 1. In my mind weight/strength training is largely scalable. Meaning, we can always put less or more weight on the bar. We can modify exercises. We can always slow down and check form. Training martial arts/combat sports loses that scalability at some point. Your opponent is, by definition, not on your side. I write this because if you have a legit pathology that should keep you out of the weight room entirely, I have difficulty believing training grappling/boxing is a good idea. My suspicion is that the particular way you were weight training was an issue and you are/will be good to do, but that is only a suspicion.
3.) Here is the link to one of Stuart McGill’s books on the subject. This one is directed more for application and less towards clinicians. Here it is on amazon.uk
I believe the current edition is the 4th edition. I do not know if that is the one being sold at the link. I have the third and it is excellent. Here it is on backfitpro. This is a Canadian sight so shipping may or may not be an issue.
4.)Kmcnyc really had an excellent post. The only points of contention I might offer is to change McGill is THE BEST, to one of the best, and that done properly Aikido or Aikijutsu is not simply a parlor trick. Finding it done properly though is a trick in itself.
Regards,
Robert A
[/quote]
Thank you very much for this involved and thoughtful post.
To give a complex answer to a simple question, I am quite confident in my chiropractor, if only because I am getting better and she comes highly recommended from various people I know. She has subsequently clarified her initial counselling against weight-lifting. Essentially I have a long spine and long limbs, but I also have some fairly massive flexibility and imbalance issues, probably caused by my doing nothing but competitive swimming for exercise for the first 18 years of my life! She has not told me to stop all together, but to find a different focus. Her opinion (with which we are all free to disagree) is that my need for focus and motivation would be better satisfied by something other than weightlifting, as aggressively adding weight to the bar while rehabbing an injury, plus dealing with inflexibility, imbalance and a physique that is not optimal for the activity in the first place is possibly a bad idea. She has advised me to seek out a sport/hobby that is supervised and coached, and to build my training around that.
Thanks for the other info, it is hugeley appreciated and I will be investigating McGill’s work further.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I never believe anyone who tells me lifting is bad or that I shouldn’t do it. Fuck’em. I’ve heard way too many stories like the one above, where once the person disregarded physician’s advice and went back to working out hard and regularly, things miraculously worked out.[/quote]
Or boxing, if you search around ross enamait motivational tag on his blog you find the story of a boxer who broke his neck in three places and came back to capture the world title or something like that.
humans are amazing.[/quote]
Indeed they are. The things they can accomplish when they stop listening to people they think are smarter than them…
That explains everything quite well. I am glad that you have a doc that you can and should have confidence in. The explanation makes a great deal of sense.
Just general information for you, and anyone reading, swimming is really not a low back friendly exercise. It subjects the spine to repetitive,uneven loading and torque all while fatigued. The necessity of breathing means that the loading can happen without the protection of diaphragm/high intra-abdominal pressures. McGill talks about these mechanisms but essentially the pressure from abdominal contraction and breath holding creates a re-enforcement for the spine. Low back injury/pain is a fairly common among competitive swimmers.
This morning the chiropractor gave me the all clear on the sacroiliac joint spraint, and has said I am right to start training again. She has told me to take it easy with the yoga until I have reached a decent level with the pilates, because of some “hyperflexibility” in my spine that back extension exercises/poses would aggravate. Getting the pilates to a decent level will apparently give me the core strength I need to be able to perform these safely.
As far as the MA goes she didn’t really offer a lot of guidance as it is not something she has experience with. She suggested that excessive flexion is the problem, rather than impact, for what that’s worth. One way or another Aikido is off the table, no sooner had I made contact the club announces its moving away. Hopefully no link.
One of the MMA gyms I am going to look at has said I can only train if I get a doc’s note saying I am fit to do so. So I called my GP surgey this morning to arrange this, only to find out one of the docs there was a medical officer for Bath Rugby Club (professional, premier league team) for ten years and has a keen interest in sports health. So maybe he’ll have some useful (and free) guidance for me.
First couple of yoga sessions have felt really good. The first pilates session was murder, which I guess tells you something about the state of my core muscles.
I went to an amateur boxing gym last night, it was good stuff, two coaches who seemed to know their stuff, everyone got an equal amount of attention and an equal amount of sparring. Format was 1.5 hour training sessions of which the first hour (post warm up) was technique and sparring, loads of sparring from what I saw, with the last half hour as S+C. So I was pretty impressed.
I’ll be visiting a judo club and a MMA gym over the weekend, then make my choice and be training next week. At the moment I’m thinking focussing on stand up would be a good idea, don’t know if being thrown around is the way forward at this point. Reckon getting a good base in boxing then when I’m stronger and fitter add in some judo is the way to go.
Glad to hear that you’re getting back out there man. Be smart about it (sounds like you are), but as someone has already said, the body is an amazing thing. Keep on expecting great results, and taking intelligent steps to achieve them, and you’ll get there (wherever “there” turns out to be).
[quote]batman730 wrote:
Glad to hear that you’re getting back out there man. Be smart about it (sounds like you are), but as someone has already said, the body is an amazing thing. Keep on expecting great results, and taking intelligent steps to achieve them, and you’ll get there (wherever “there” turns out to be).
All the best.[/quote]
Cheers mate, I appreciate it.
I went to see the doc today and he said he reckons I’m good to go on all MA but to watch the heavy weightlifting. He convinced me to buy a book called Treat Your Own Back by Robin McKenzie. I’ll put up a short review when I’ve read it.