Ah, so that’s how it’s done! Never did high pulls and tried some today, really should have used a tad more weight… live and learn. Good Stuff.
I’m just on my 3rd week of this and let me tell you, my traps have been killed after every snatch and clean session…I’ve done rack pulls with 600-800 lbs before with shrugs, and my traps have not gotten as sore as they do now…
Just 2 quick questions for those who have experimented with this…is it better to do both HIGH clean pulls and High snatch pulls? The reason I ask is because I do snatch workout and then skip 1 day and do cleans workout…so just wondering if doing high pulls for both would be too much?
Secondly, I don’t know for what reason either a.) I’m being a wussy and not catching it near parallel or b.) I can’t get low enough quickly to catch it low…
but the question is, is it better to catch a clean pretty low or with 1/4 squat stance? (better as in building more size and strength, not on form really)
Thanks guys!
-Paul
[quote]bassip21 wrote:
I’m just on my 3rd week of this and let me tell you, my traps have been killed after every snatch and clean session…I’ve done rack pulls with 600-800 lbs before with shrugs, and my traps have not gotten as sore as they do now…
Just 2 quick questions for those who have experimented with this…is it better to do both HIGH clean pulls and High snatch pulls? The reason I ask is because I do snatch workout and then skip 1 day and do cleans workout…so just wondering if doing high pulls for both would be too much?
Secondly, I don’t know for what reason either a.) I’m being a wussy and not catching it near parallel or b.) I can’t get low enough quickly to catch it low…
but the question is, is it better to catch a clean pretty low or with 1/4 squat stance? (better as in building more size and strength, not on form really)
Thanks guys!
-Paul[/quote]
unless you are planning on competing in the OL, i would not worry as much about catching real low, 1/4 is fine, it is basically a power version of the lift, which is fine for this routines purposes. IMHO
edit: also, what you said about your traps is very typical. i get much more sore doing snatches and snatch high pulls with 200-300lbs, than shrugs with 400-500lbs. i am not sure as to why, maybe the “explosive” nature of the OL, you are exerting more actual force on the lighter loads than with heavier shrugs, heck i dont know. i shrug every now and then, but i never felt the need to as i do lots of deadlifts and pulls.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
HT
Am I wrong to assume that the weights you used went up as you changed exercises from high pulls, to pulls, to deadlifts? Did you start from the ground for each or use a power high pull, for instance?[/quote]
yep. cleans, add weight the do high pulls, then and weight then do pulls.
as far as starting from the ground or hang goes…well, about 90% of the time i pull i pull from the ground. i like the hip and thigh work pulling from the ground gives you. when i was a competitive thrower, i would use the hang position more, as my legs stayed pretty beat up from the throws.
i rarely if ever pulled from blocks.[/quote]
Thanks. I your posts have motivated me to do more Oly. I tried snatch, snatch high pull, snatch pull progression. I liked it because you just keep adding weight. I started with hangs but you have a good point about the hip and thigh work. I found my legs respond best to volume so I will switch to pulling from the ground for most of the lifts.
Do you suggest dropping the weight or catching it then when pulling from the ground? I started feeling beat up from catching it when I was starting in the hang position.
edit: saw the video (helpful), you drop the weight.
i usually drop the weight when i get “heavy” i catch my warmups, but you are right on, i get very beat up when i catch my heavier sets. i also get very very sore, which hurts my next workout. so heavy sets i drop.
[quote]tyler15625 wrote:
I was thinking about this split, tell me what you think (anybody)…
Push/Pull/Legs
- Horiztonal Push
- Horizontal Pull
- Quad-dominant
off - Vertical Push
- Vertical Pull
- Hip-dominant
off
Repeat
Format:
Exercise 1, ramping 3’s
Exercise 2(same as exercise 1), 5x5 @ 80% of weight reached in exercise 1
Exercise 3 & 4, assistance, 1-2 sets max reps with 70-75%[/quote]
I would say that instead of having a strict movement, you have more of an emphasis. For instance, on horizontal push day, you do the ramping 3s with a horizontal push exercise, yet then the 5x5s are done with the vertical push exercise,and likewise for the puling and leg days. I would think that this would give you more frequency in your training and leaves everything more spread out. But those are just my thoughts with the limited knowledge i have, don’t take me as the word of god by any means
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
i usually drop the weight when i get “heavy” i catch my warmups, but you are right on, i get very beat up when i catch my heavier sets. i also get very very sore, which hurts my next workout. so heavy sets i drop. [/quote]
Thanks, you have been very helpful. One more question if I could, what rep range do you suggest staying in for the progression? I did ramping sets of 2 to 4 for snatch (10 sets), ramping 4 to 6 for high pulls (6 sets), and two max sets for pulls - which went to 10 then 8. Would you suggest lower number of reps for the max sets, i.e. heavier or does that seem appropriate?
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
i usually drop the weight when i get “heavy” i catch my warmups, but you are right on, i get very beat up when i catch my heavier sets. i also get very very sore, which hurts my next workout. so heavy sets i drop. [/quote]
Thanks, you have been very helpful. One more question if I could, what rep range do you suggest staying in for the progression? I did ramping sets of 2 to 4 for snatch (10 sets), ramping 4 to 6 for high pulls (6 sets), and two max sets for pulls - which went to 10 then 8. Would you suggest lower number of reps for the max sets, i.e. heavier or does that seem appropriate?[/quote]
you may be over-thinking this. for 2-3 weeks, do 5-7 sets of 5, and for a few weeks do6-10 sets of 3. personally, i played around with loading a lot.
if i felt i was in bad condition, or in need of increased conditioning, for the 5-7 sets of 5 i would keep the load constant. this meant the load was pretty light, as the demands olympic lifts put on the nervous system is high, it would be very tough to finish 7 sets of 5 reps with a weight that was challenging on the first set.
otherwise, i would “ramp up” each set, first being pretty easy, the last at or near my 5 rep max.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]bassip21 wrote:
I’m just on my 3rd week of this and let me tell you, my traps have been killed after every snatch and clean session…I’ve done rack pulls with 600-800 lbs before with shrugs, and my traps have not gotten as sore as they do now…
Just 2 quick questions for those who have experimented with this…is it better to do both HIGH clean pulls and High snatch pulls? The reason I ask is because I do snatch workout and then skip 1 day and do cleans workout…so just wondering if doing high pulls for both would be too much?
Secondly, I don’t know for what reason either a.) I’m being a wussy and not catching it near parallel or b.) I can’t get low enough quickly to catch it low…
but the question is, is it better to catch a clean pretty low or with 1/4 squat stance? (better as in building more size and strength, not on form really)
Thanks guys!
-Paul[/quote]
unless you are planning on competing in the OL, i would not worry as much about catching real low, 1/4 is fine, it is basically a power version of the lift, which is fine for this routines purposes. IMHO
edit: also, what you said about your traps is very typical. i get much more sore doing snatches and snatch high pulls with 200-300lbs, than shrugs with 400-500lbs. i am not sure as to why, maybe the “explosive” nature of the OL, you are exerting more actual force on the lighter loads than with heavier shrugs, heck i dont know. i shrug every now and then, but i never felt the need to as i do lots of deadlifts and pulls. [/quote]
Thanks for your input man, really helps to know or get information from someone who has experienced the workouts…I got my snatch day tomorrow, hoping to hang snatch 135, (low weight I know), but it’ll be a max for me!
good luck! do the lifts, work hard, and be consistent, and it will work!
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]sanshin wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]rp_shea wrote:
Out of curiosity, what would you change about the other 2%? I tried it a while back and really liked it. I also agree that it was a great article.[/quote]
I would change the exercises. Back then I was still competing as an olympic lifter and thus wrote the article from an olympic lifter’s perspective.
- I would use a push - pull - legs split
[/quote]
What exercises would you use for this type of split?
Push = bench, Pull = Chin/pull-up, Legs = Squat/DL variation?
Thanks in advance.[/quote]
PUSH:
- Bench press or push press (depending on priority)
- push press or bench press (depending on priority)
- DB incline press
- Floor press or dips
PULL:
- Chin-up variation
- Barbell rowing
- High pull
- Power shrug
LEGS:
- a) Squat OR b) deadlift*
- a) Front squat OR b) romanian deadlift*
- a) Leg press OR b) glute ham raise*
*Use a) for a squat dominant workout and b) for a hips dominant workout. [/quote]
Would you then alternate the “a” and “b” workouts for legs weekly?
[quote]nick.down.under wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]sanshin wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]rp_shea wrote:
Out of curiosity, what would you change about the other 2%? I tried it a while back and really liked it. I also agree that it was a great article.[/quote]
I would change the exercises. Back then I was still competing as an olympic lifter and thus wrote the article from an olympic lifter’s perspective.
- I would use a push - pull - legs split
[/quote]
What exercises would you use for this type of split?
Push = bench, Pull = Chin/pull-up, Legs = Squat/DL variation?
Thanks in advance.[/quote]
PUSH:
- Bench press or push press (depending on priority)
- push press or bench press (depending on priority)
- DB incline press
- Floor press or dips
PULL:
- Chin-up variation
- Barbell rowing
- High pull
- Power shrug
LEGS:
- a) Squat OR b) deadlift*
- a) Front squat OR b) romanian deadlift*
- a) Leg press OR b) glute ham raise*
*Use a) for a squat dominant workout and b) for a hips dominant workout. [/quote]
Would you then alternate the “a” and “b” workouts for legs weekly?
[/quote]
Every leg workout ideally. With the original program I was actually doing legs twice a week so I had one of each. If you are only training legs once a week, alternate weekly.
Thanks. One follow up question, with a push/pull/legs, assuming I can’t train over 8 days, i.e. 3 on 1 off and repeat, (due to life demands) how would you set it up over 7?
[quote]nick.down.under wrote:
Thanks. One follow up question, with a push/pull/legs, assuming I can’t train over 8 days, i.e. 3 on 1 off and repeat, (due to life demands) how would you set it up over 7?[/quote]
Why wouldn’t it be possible to do 3 on 1 off? Of course that means training on the weekends from time to time, but the human physiology doesn’t care if the calendar says monday or tuesday. Nowhere is it written that would should use the week as your basis for program design.
It is always possible.
Training on weekends isn’t the problem, in fact it is desirable, as I often have more time, and it will stop me from drinking the night before I have to train. It is more a case of during the week, some of my days are long, 12+ hours of travel, work and uni that I prefer to not train on them.
If that is the case, would I just skip over them and continue with the 3 on 1 off approach or modify it?
Thanks for your time, and patience.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
i usually drop the weight when i get “heavy” i catch my warmups, but you are right on, i get very beat up when i catch my heavier sets. i also get very very sore, which hurts my next workout. so heavy sets i drop. [/quote]
Thanks, you have been very helpful. One more question if I could, what rep range do you suggest staying in for the progression? I did ramping sets of 2 to 4 for snatch (10 sets), ramping 4 to 6 for high pulls (6 sets), and two max sets for pulls - which went to 10 then 8. Would you suggest lower number of reps for the max sets, i.e. heavier or does that seem appropriate?[/quote]
you may be over-thinking this. for 2-3 weeks, do 5-7 sets of 5, and for a few weeks do6-10 sets of 3. personally, i played around with loading a lot.
if i felt i was in bad condition, or in need of increased conditioning, for the 5-7 sets of 5 i would keep the load constant. this meant the load was pretty light, as the demands olympic lifts put on the nervous system is high, it would be very tough to finish 7 sets of 5 reps with a weight that was challenging on the first set.
otherwise, i would “ramp up” each set, first being pretty easy, the last at or near my 5 rep max.
[/quote]
Ok. I started doing 6 to 8 sets of 5 to 6 at the end of workouts with a constant weight (about 60% of est. max) as a finisher. I always felt like I could do more (after a brief rest). So I switched to ramping sets as this became a main and not finishing exercise.
I count my warm-up sets in the total sets - one reason there were so many. The last few sets were at the same weight. I only increased my increments by 10 lbs each time. My max is not known, but surely not impressive.
I will do use constant weights and your suggestions above tomorrow for cleans and compare the two days.
Thank you for your guidance on this.
your welcome, and no thanks needed. guys like me post of boards like this because we love to talk about this stuff.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
guys like me post of boards like this because we love to talk about this stuff.[/quote]
i know how you feel… i cant talk to any of my friends about lifting bc no matter how much i bitch at them, they still do mens health burner sets and drink chocolate milk post workout
Thursday’s workout was done with 5 straight sets of 5 (after 3 sets of warm-ups warm-up before cleans) for both cleans and high-pulls, then two sets of 5 for pulls followed by ramped sets of 3 for deads. The constant weight was easier from an organizational stand point and in that way was simpler and faster.
I also felt that technique trumped weight during the sets - since the weight was a quickly known variable. My form probably varied within sets more than across the five sets. So, from a technique point-of-view I can see the benefit of the constant weight.
I had more in the tank after a third set of deads but everything - body and mind- said that was good. (I have been doing this long enough to listen when the message is that clear.)
Another question, if I may. What additional back work would you suggest if I do a snatch/quads day and clean/hams day within a four-way split over seven days (the other days are chest/back/tris/bis)? Right now I have Yate’s rows and chins to be done on different days and the back feels pretty good. I think I am going to add in a rehab day on the first rest day where I focus on shoulder rehab (face-pulls, cable raises) and LYTP stuff for shoulders and back. Too much?
none. there was a guy on another now defunct board who did this routine, and did NO additional back work, even on the “accessory/supplemental day” he posted before and after pics, and it was very impressive how thicker and wider his back (especially upper back) got from all the snatches cleans and pulls.