Hey guys, i have a questions for anyone experienced enough to answer.
What can be done during and/or after a cycle of a nondrolone Decanoate to minimize the extreme HPTA shutdown? Is this dosage dependent? I know Anti E’s may not be effective in this regard do to the Progesterone vs Estrogen affinity, or are they? Please correct any misconceptions i may have.
If I was ever going to run nandrolone (I never have and have no intention of doing so in the near future, partly because of exactly what you are talking about, along with all of the other bad things nandrolone is notorious for, and partly because if I’m going to run a 19-nor, I’m going to run trenbolone, because, I mean, I just cannot see any good reason why someone would do otherwise unless they are having serious joint issues), then I would run arimidex alongside cabergoline and keep a strong AI such as letrozole on hand, as well, to make damned sure that estrogen stays as low as possible.
I would also run nandrolone phenylprop, not decanoate, just to get things in and out of the system more quickly. Especially important if I find out I hate it and I’m stuck with the deca ester.
It’s just my opinion, because like I said have no personal experience with it, but nandrolone seems like a poor choice of drugs to me me there are so many other options out there that will yield basically the same results without all of those miserable side effects.
Great info Cortes. You could also look into a progesterone antagonist as an alternative to a dopamine agonist. Not much info avaiable on that.
PS Gregus aren’t you the guy that ran off EgantiosJ? Smooth move on that one lol
[quote]Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
Great info Cortes. You could also look into a progesterone antagonist as an alternative to a dopamine agonist. Not much info avaiable on that.
PS Gregus aren’t you the guy that ran off EgantiosJ? Smooth move on that one lol[/quote]
After coming in here talking shit about the vets and then getting his ass schooled by Eg, yes, that’s pretty much how I remember it.
Well allow me to defend good old ND a bit here then.
Im a tad surprised and certainly didnt remember that you’ve never ever tried ND or NPP Cortes.
With all due respect its always a bit weird to be so anti-something you’ve never actually experienced. Admittedly I have the same disdain for winstrol [something I’ve never used myself]. But equally true many people use it with great success and avoid the issues Im worried about [in my case joint brittleness].
Other than test itself deca has been a part of more of my cycles than any other compound. Admittedly, I discovered Deca before tren. God in Heaven knows I do love tren. However, its also true to say IMO tren’s sides are harsher for me than anything else including deca. I will admit nandrolone does impact my libido/sex drive quite a bit however, a working combination of maca, proviron, caber and tadafil works to counteract the negatives. Further, as someone with known existing joint mobility issues Deca is a breathe of fresh air for me there. Also from a pure bulking standpoint nandrolone gets me big better than tren; thats right I said it. Tren is unequally for gorilla strength but sheer hypertrophy to me sees more enhanced with deca and test than tren and test. Part of that I’m sure is that my appetite is reduced on tren and tren has that “cutting” property/ability.
Re-reading Gregus’ OP I’d say to successfully run ND without crippling sides have the aforementioned cabergoline as well as proviron, maca and tadafil. Many of us find running a SERM like tamoxifen aids in the sexual arena moreso than as an anti-e. If you run your deca with test than as Cortes mentioned I’d be sure to have my AI on hand and used faithfully.
When I was getting serious about my PL I was using tren religiously. Im currently backing away from pure strength and honestly now Im turning back to ND for bulking over tren.
Again for me and to address the OP the one and only side I get from Deca are the “sexual sides” Im able to counter those with enough ancillaries. On tren, while I feel like superman I get hit so hard on the cardio side, the constant thirst, the elevated BP, and my acne is worse on tren than anything else. For me and to me there’s more sides with tren and tren’s sides I cannot always counter with an ancillary product, especially the cardio-reduction and the BP.
Believe me I know tren and I love tren. But Im never going to sell ND down the river either. Each has its place and time for use.
BBB, this looks like the thread:
He only made three more posts after that, and this was the last one:
[quote]
Maybe it means it is time get out of dodge? I mean apparently winstrol, oxandrolone, and Prohormones are so safe, anyone can use them without worry. As long as everyone stays away from anadrol and testosterone advice isn’t needed anymore lol (referencing the jackass Gregus from another thread). I must be losing it since, I cant even answer a simple lab question about filtering…
Shawn has my email, if any of the old football buddies want to get in touch. I’ll talk to you soon S. Take care my friends = )[/quote]
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Leaving aside the nandrolone Vs trenbolone discussion - and let me state that tren can have far more unpleasant sides (insomnia, BP, appetite) than deca - I would HOPE that EgJ would not be ‘run off’ by anyone.
I have missed his calibre of input here and if indeed he left because of comments by others, then they should be ashamed of themselves. EgJ was by far one of the most informed, polite and humble posters this forum has ever had the good fortun to receive input from IMO.
BBB[/quote]
Staying off topic I must concur. It is sad that so many have chosen to leave but equally true we must respect their decision. Its very true to say a lot of the old gang from “that place which formerly was” have a hard jiving with the kind of nonsense that can be in this forum. I think its why “that place which formerly was” was created to begin with.
The sad double standard is that the quality of poster of people like eqj, world and schwarzneggeer is what attracts so many to T-Nation. For better or for worse when you attract so many you also attract so many more…what word to choose…pick your own. In the end, its the under-educated who end up being hurt.
Equally there is an element of having a slightly thicker skin and not getting so personally involved with random people on an internet message board. I too dispense knowledge which IMO is helpful and usually my knowledge exceeds that of the one reading my post. However, if someone blows me off or calls me an idiot and chooses not to believe or follow my advice Im not going to fight that fight. Perhaps thats why I haven’t left too
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
BBB, this looks like the thread:
He only made three more posts after that, and this was the last one:
[quote]
Maybe it means it is time get out of dodge? I mean apparently winstrol, oxandrolone, and Prohormones are so safe, anyone can use them without worry. As long as everyone stays away from anadrol and testosterone advice isn’t needed anymore lol (referencing the jackass Gregus from another thread). I must be losing it since, I cant even answer a simple lab question about filtering…
Shawn has my email, if any of the old football buddies want to get in touch. I’ll talk to you soon S. Take care my friends = )[/quote][/quote]
That’s exactly what I was referring to, RG, thanks.
Eg’s not the only one, either. I just recieved word via email that it is going to get even more painful around these forums, as another of our most respected members has informed me he is also fed up with this place and won’t be coming around anymore. I’m really sad to see all of these good guys go, but it doesn’t surprise me.
Don’t you leave, BBB.
Back onto the topic:
Good point saps, about my lack of experience and dismissal of nandrolone as a “viable” drug. I did edit this into my original post that I should probably not be talking about it for this very reason and that I was not really the target responder, but for some reason many of my edits recently don’t “take.” There are obviously plenty of athletes who swear by nandrolone and love it, and if I had listed to all of the detractors when it came to tren, I would have denied myself one of life’s greatest pleasures. So really who am I to say?
Still, I think for the next few foreseeable years I’ll continue to steer clear of the deca and NPP and go with my goomah, trenbolone. I was going to say first love but that would have to be test and really, the analogy works best this way, doesn’t it?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Back onto the topic:
Good point saps, about my lack of experience and dismissal of nandrolone as a “viable” drug. I did edit this into my original post that I should probably not be talking about it for this very reason and that I was not really the target responder, but for some reason many of my edits recently don’t “take.” There are obviously plenty of athletes who swear by nandrolone and love it, and if I had listed to all of the detractors when it came to tren, I would have denied myself one of life’s greatest pleasures. So really who am I to say?
Still, I think for the next few foreseeable years I’ll continue to steer clear of the deca and NPP and go with my goomah, trenbolone. I was going to say first love but that would have to be test and really, the analogy works best this way, doesn’t it?[/quote]
I think my friend is going to try ND after solely using test and tren so far. Perhaps I will update this thread and add in my 2 cents after that time. I am most interested in hypertrophy but mr. Winky working is a close second = )
[quote]Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
I think my friend is going to try ND after solely using test and tren so far. Perhaps I will update this thread and add in my 2 cents after that time. I am most interested in hypertrophy but mr. Winky working is a close second = )[/quote]
And like I said Nandrolone’s side[s] can for the most part be countered with proper ancillaries. Tren on the other hand does not have as many ancillary counter measures. No saying one is good anthe other is bad. Not even saying tren is better than deca, although from an effectiveness point you could easily argue it is. Bottom Line use what you want for your purposes and goals
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Back onto the topic:
Good point saps, about my lack of experience and dismissal of nandrolone as a “viable” drug. I did edit this into my original post that I should probably not be talking about it for this very reason and that I was not really the target responder, but for some reason many of my edits recently don’t “take.” There are obviously plenty of athletes who swear by nandrolone and love it, and if I had listed to all of the detractors when it came to tren, I would have denied myself one of life’s greatest pleasures. So really who am I to say?
Still, I think for the next few foreseeable years I’ll continue to steer clear of the deca and NPP and go with my goomah, trenbolone. I was going to say first love but that would have to be test and really, the analogy works best this way, doesn’t it?[/quote]
Fair enough. I mean Im kinda the same way with winstrol. You never heard me endorsing it. I’ve never used it. I view it as a joint killer so I avoid it and even talking about it. However, my point of view is much like a guy who’s never used deca saying dont use deca or you’ll get deca-dick. Its an over extrapolation based on hearsay.
[quote]Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
Great info Cortes. You could also look into a progesterone antagonist as an alternative to a dopamine agonist. Not much info avaiable on that.
PS Gregus aren’t you the guy that ran off EgantiosJ? Smooth move on that one lol[/quote]
Sorry Wrong person.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Having read that abortion of a thread, I see that Gregus has a questionable attitude and low level of steroid education.
However, so do many who read this forum, I’m sure. I too started out with a low level steroid education - as did we all.
However I do not like the attitude displayed by him, especially towards one who genuinely lifted this board with his educated and thoughtful posts.
I am disheartened that he left, but also surprised that he allowed Gregus to infuriate him so much. You have to use a certain level of detatchment when on an internet forum. It’s the only means of staying sane. To leave is at best a hollow victory. Better to stay and ignore, than leave and let the forum degenerate IMO.
BBB[/quote]
Whoa i feel like im getting raged on for something i didn’t do.
His statement open up with:
“To imply that, winstrol is possibly “safer” than the other AAS, is very incorrect.”
His statements are absolutely incorrect and he does not know what he’s talking about. Sorry.
That was about what i said to him and about him. Then i got flipped out on. He made a broad generalization and i disagreed. I;m not sure where anything else came from. I consider my knowledge on AS to be moderate and certainly NOT as good as some here that are of a PHD level in education on this.
I know what he was saying but his angle of discussion was IMO incorrect. Furthermore i was called name after name even though i didn’t reciprocate.
Is it any real argument really that running a cycle of 200 mg or primo weekly and 20 mg of var daily for six weeks is “SAFER” then a cycle of 50mg daily of anadrol and Test suspension @ 100mg daily for six weeks?
He seemed to infer that there is really NO difference in the safety of those two cycles. as in NO DIFFERENCE. So i disagreed. Why didn’t anyone else? If i’m missing something here just let me know, and i do apologize for unintentionally setting someone off.
[quote]saps wrote:
Well allow me to defend good old ND a bit here then.
Im a tad surprised and certainly didnt remember that you’ve never ever tried ND or NPP Cortes.
With all due respect its always a bit weird to be so anti-something you’ve never actually experienced. Admittedly I have the same disdain for winstrol [something I’ve never used myself]. But equally true many people use it with great success and avoid the issues Im worried about [in my case joint brittleness].
Other than test itself deca has been a part of more of my cycles than any other compound. Admittedly, I discovered Deca before tren. God in Heaven knows I do love tren. However, its also true to say IMO tren’s sides are harsher for me than anything else including deca. I will admit nandrolone does impact my libido/sex drive quite a bit however, a working combination of maca, proviron, caber and tadafil works to counteract the negatives. Further, as someone with known existing joint mobility issues Deca is a breathe of fresh air for me there. Also from a pure bulking standpoint nandrolone gets me big better than tren; thats right I said it. Tren is unequally for gorilla strength but sheer hypertrophy to me sees more enhanced with deca and test than tren and test. Part of that I’m sure is that my appetite is reduced on tren and tren has that “cutting” property/ability.
Re-reading Gregus’ OP I’d say to successfully run ND without crippling sides have the aforementioned cabergoline as well as proviron, maca and tadafil. Many of us find running a SERM like tamoxifen aids in the sexual arena moreso than as an anti-e. If you run your deca with test than as Cortes mentioned I’d be sure to have my AI on hand and used faithfully.
When I was getting serious about my PL I was using tren religiously. Im currently backing away from pure strength and honestly now Im turning back to ND for bulking over tren.
Again for me and to address the OP the one and only side I get from Deca are the “sexual sides” Im able to counter those with enough ancillaries. On tren, while I feel like superman I get hit so hard on the cardio side, the constant thirst, the elevated BP, and my acne is worse on tren than anything else. For me and to me there’s more sides with tren and tren’s sides I cannot always counter with an ancillary product, especially the cardio-reduction and the BP.
Believe me I know tren and I love tren. But Im never going to sell ND down the river either. Each has its place and time for use.[/quote]
In the past i was big on Initially running each AS separately to accurately asses it’s sides for me. My First run with Deca was a sex drive disaster. My second run with it was totally opposite. My sex drive was Very high. Odd.
Now i stack and wouldn’t run Deca without a test in the cycle as a base. My worry and interest is in what is it about Deca that causes a long HPTA recovery? Or is this Just a Myth?
I looked over the blood work of someone i know and they completed a cycle of 500mg test weekly and 300mg Deca. His Cholesterol Profile was excellent. He was Placed in the Insurances Top Tier rating for his heath. But the only glitch was that his LH was almost none existent. Then ofcourse so was his test and free test. This was 6 weeks post the 3 week clear out for Nondrolone.
After this He did a PCT with HCG and other ancillaries and felt better but still down.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
[quote]Gregus wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Having read that abortion of a thread, I see that Gregus has a questionable attitude and low level of steroid education.
However, so do many who read this forum, I’m sure. I too started out with a low level steroid education - as did we all.
However I do not like the attitude displayed by him, especially towards one who genuinely lifted this board with his educated and thoughtful posts.
I am disheartened that he left, but also surprised that he allowed Gregus to infuriate him so much. You have to use a certain level of detatchment when on an internet forum. It’s the only means of staying sane. To leave is at best a hollow victory. Better to stay and ignore, than leave and let the forum degenerate IMO.
BBB[/quote]
Whoa i feel like im getting raged on for something i didn’t do.
His statement open up with:
“To imply that, winstrol is possibly “safer” than the other AAS, is very incorrect.”
His statements are absolutely incorrect and he does not know what he’s talking about. Sorry.
That was about what i said to him and about him. Then i got flipped out on. He made a broad generalization and i disagreed. I;m not sure where anything else came from. I consider my knowledge on AS to be moderate and certainly NOT as good as some here that are of a PHD level in education on this.
I know what he was saying but his angle of discussion was IMO incorrect. Furthermore i was called name after name even though i didn’t reciprocate.
Is it any real argument really that running a cycle of 200 mg or primo weekly and 20 mg of var daily for six weeks is “SAFER” then a cycle of 50mg daily of anadrol and Test suspension @ 100mg daily for six weeks?
He seemed to infer that there is really NO difference in the safety of those two cycles. as in NO DIFFERENCE. So i disagreed. Why didn’t anyone else? If i’m missing something here just let me know, and i do apologize for unintentionally setting someone off. [/quote]
Let me give you a tip regarding etiquette on an internet forum. Of course this is just how I view it and handle things, not taken from some mythical ‘internet guidance bible’ or anything, you understand.
Ok. When someone “seems to infer” as you yourself put it, you have to tread carefully. This is especially true when that poster possesses more knowledge on a given suject than you do.
You certainly do not write a reply that states “His statements are absolutely incorrect and he does not know what he’s talking about.”
It is more likely that your iterpretation of his inferences was wrong.
And since you later admit that “I know what he was saying but his angle of discussion was IMO incorrect.” then this compounds the issue, since you cannot correct an ‘angle of discussion’ with “His statements are absolutely incorrect and he does not know what he’s talking about.”
In short you come across as boorish and truculent. The very ‘asshole-ish’ characteristics you profess to eschew in this forum.
So you went and perpetuated the very type of behaviour you railed against in a recent thread. Hypocritical at best IMO.
Now I don’t agree with how EgJ handled your comment. Normally he would have shown more grace and aplomb. So I have to surmise that yours was the straw that broke the camels’ back, or that he is having a tough time of things in his ‘real’ life and you caught the flack.
BBB
[/quote]
Yeah “Gregus”.
Take me for example, i’m an annoying little shit with my social faux pases (sic) and lack of boundaries but i always pepper my brusqueness with a modicom of humility.
Like that adderrall thread, in which i qualified my disagreements with “correct me if i’m wrong,” and “i’m sure you’re knowledge of pharmacology is way superior to mine, and so i will defer to your better judgement, BUT…” etc. Such statements are enough to massage their egos, particularly when uneducated little shits, such as myself, go around presenting contrary opinions which may nevertheless be correct i am stupid.