Long story short, I had an umbilical hernia repaired this week which got me thinking about how I will train when getting back into things. I fear getting another hernia and have considered dropping squats and deadlifts to as a preventative measure.(I figure those two lifts pose the biggest threat of a hernia.)
With all the talk around about how a lifter isn’t “hardcore” or “legit” if they don’t squat or pull, I wanted to know how the biggest and strongest guys feel about these lifts. I want to know if they feel that progress will be compromised without these lifts and if so, will it make a huge deal? Do you think there are other exercises that can be used as legitimate replacements?(RDLs, lunges, etc?) I have no plans to ever compete in bodybuilding, powerlifting or strongman. At this point in my lifting career, my best deadlift was 370 for reps and my squat was about 315 for reps.
I know that Prof X has stated that he doesn’t deadlift anymore and does his squats on a machine. Clearly, it hasn’t prevented him from excelling to a level most on here will never reach.
A lot of Top Pros don’t do deads or squats. Yates stopped doing squats early on in his pro career and it certainly didn’t hurt him,… and how many pros get their pro card and then feel that they should start doing heavy deads even though they never did before. Granted, these two particular exercises have come to be looked at as all important simply because of the overall effect on the body as far as numbers of muscle groups stressed, but are they really necessary, or is it just accepted dogma at this point?
If you have no plans to ever compete in powerlifting (forget bodybuilding, because a lot of BBers stop doing them for fear of developing a thick core), what difference does it make? I’m sure you can come up with plenty of alternatives to keep your mid section strong and prevent further issues.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Granted, these two particular exercises have come to be looked at as all important simply because of the overall effect on the body as far as numbers of muscle groups stressed, but are they really necessary, or is it just accepted dogma at this point?
[/quote]
This is exactly something I’ve been wondering about lately. Why does it seem that deads and squats are placed on such a higher pedestal than ever other lift? It’s obvious to see their benefits(and also their risks/dangers), but some people out there claim that they are the be all, end all of training. They basically say that you cannot be considered strong if you don’t do them.
I still do FRONT squats (which I feel more on my quads, less on my glutes and lower back), and will occasionally do PARTIAL deads either with DBs, or from a rack. Lately though, I’ve been doing weighted hypers (holding a plate to my chest). Feels real good to just focus on a continuous pulsing type of motion, with no real lockout or rest point in the ROM. I did make use of both Full Back Squats and Full Deads from the floor years ago, and certainly feel they both contributed to positive as well as negative aspects of my current physique. They are good exercises for most people, but certainly not the be all end all of weight training.
OP, I think the take-home point here is when you reach the development level of Mighty Stu, or Yates, or Prof X, or IFBB pros, etc etc, you have spent enough time under the bar to know what you need to do to grow. Squats and deads are regarded so highly b/c they are, lb for lb, the best mass-building exercises around. When you’ve already added appreciable mass, however, these lifts may no longer be “necessary”.
At that point, stimulating specific leg/back muscles may be more advantageous, or as Stu said, you might ditch deadlifting to prevent a thick core look, or you may stop squatting to avoid injury and target quads over glutes, or what have you. It just depends on your goals at that point.
I personally think all non-advanced trainees should squat and pull, and once you have added some mass, will be much better equipped to decide if you still “need” those exercises, or if alternatives are a better option. In your specific case, I guess do them if you can, but clearly injuries take precedence.
Hi Mate, I had an umbilical hernia repaired 17 years ago and have squated and deadlifted heavy since. My doc then said once i have recovered from the surgery and progress slowly with my recovery , it will be stronger then before. Sometimes they put a cauze sheet to stop the hernia from poking out, with me they basically pushed what ever was poking out back in and overlapped my stomache muscles where the weakness was to strengthen it up. Some people just have a congenital weakness there or a born with an umbilical hernia, once fixed i cant see a problem with why you cany squat and deadlift, but obviously ask your quack.
Despite Squats and the Deadlift being two of the greatest exercises, I believe most people won’t benefit that much from them. Hell I haven’t done conventional deads for a long time now cause they absolutely murder my back.
“As long as form is good, squats and deadlifts are perfectly safe”, some hardcore folks will tell ya. First, even with good form the risk of injury is still significantly higher than with other exercises.
Second, you may have nailed the form, found your groove, and then the weights get a bit heavier, your form goes to shit. “oops better take some weight off and work on form”. Not exactly the best scenario for progression when you keep having to deload to work on form, is it?
Thing is, it’s better to keep progressing on some inferior exercises than to be injured from deadlifts or to keep struggling with form and not progressing at all in these “bang for the buck” exercises.
Again, those exercises CAN be the best for you, but also the worst.
This is not to be taken too seriously but as far as health, I kind of wish nobody ever squatted or deadlifted except evil people. Those movements are responsible for driving numerous backs and knees into early retirement and elderly state of being in the person’s 20’s. Screw heavy squats and deadlifts. May they be forgotten and remembered as a record of human exercise follies.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
This is not to be taken too seriously but as far as health, I kind of wish nobody ever squatted or deadlifted except evil people. Those movements are responsible for driving numerous backs and knees into early retirement and elderly state of being in the person’s 20’s. Screw heavy squats and deadlifts. May they be forgotten and remembered as a record of human exercise follies.[/quote]
definately won’t be taking that serioudly then! (on a side note, i had to laugh when a young kid in my gym felt the need to pass comment just as i finished a 180kilo set of deads for 3, “i wouldn’t want to be your back when your old”
standard reply “i’m already old, lol”
Despite Squats and the Deadlift being two of the greatest exercises, I believe most people won’t benefit that much from them. Hell I haven’t done conventional deads for a long time now cause they absolutely murder my back.
“As long as form is good, squats and deadlifts are perfectly safe”, some hardcore folks will tell ya. First, even with good form the risk of injury is still significantly higher than with other exercises.
Second, you may have nailed the form, found your groove, and then the weights get a bit heavier, your form goes to shit. “oops better take some weight off and work on form”. Not exactly the best scenario for progression when you keep having to deload to work on form, is it?
Thing is, it’s better to keep progressing on some inferior exercises than to be injured from deadlifts or to keep struggling with form and not progressing at all in these “bang for the buck” exercises.
Again, those exercises CAN be the best for you, but also the worst.
[quote]Danny880 wrote:
Hi Mate, I had an umbilical hernia repaired 17 years ago and have squated and deadlifted heavy since. My doc then said once i have recovered from the surgery and progress slowly with my recovery , it will be stronger then before. Sometimes they put a cauze sheet to stop the hernia from poking out, with me they basically pushed what ever was poking out back in and overlapped my stomache muscles where the weakness was to strengthen it up. Some people just have a congenital weakness there or a born with an umbilical hernia, once fixed i cant see a problem with why you cany squat and deadlift, but obviously ask your quack.[/quote]
My surgeon used surgical mesh to repair my hernia. It’s called a non-tension repair. My belly button was a problem since the day I was born as it never healed correctly. My concern now is getting hernias in other places(groin, etc.)
… Why hasn’t no one mentioned good movements to replace Deads and Squats
The only “big” lifts I still do are Squats (only high rep + 20), Bench and T-Bar rows… Then again, I’m 2009… so I should shut my mouth.
ButIf I were you, I’d definetly keep doing squats, just in the higher rep range. Just put something small like 2 45’s on the bar and just squat as much as you can.
Logically speaking, less stress on your belly button, but, if that’s painful, I wouldn’t do it.
And, if anything, rack pulls are FAR better than deadlifts in my perspective, and, hopefully that doesn’t stress your belly button though
[quote]PhatAznGuy wrote:
… Why hasn’t no one mentioned good movements to replace Deads and Squats
The only “big” lifts I still do are Squats (only high rep + 20), Bench and T-Bar rows… Then again, I’m 2009… so I should shut my mouth.
ButIf I were you, I’d definetly keep doing squats, just in the higher rep range. Just put something small like 2 45’s on the bar and just squat as much as you can.
Logically speaking, less stress on your belly button, but, if that’s painful, I wouldn’t do it.
And, if anything, rack pulls are FAR better than deadlifts in my perspective, and, hopefully that doesn’t stress your belly button though[/quote]
It’s not the belly button that I’m worried about so much. That will be stronger than ever in due time.