No Habla, No Ballot

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

"Look around you. From now on, it only gets worse. In tens years’ time, there will be no American Dream, any more than there’s a Greek or Portugese Dream. In twenty, you’ll be living the American Nightmare, with large tracts of the country reduced to the favelas of Latin America, the rich fleeing for Bermuda or New Zealand or wherever on the planet they can buy a little time, and the rest trapped in the impoverished, violent, diseased ruins of utopian vanity.

“After America?” Yes. It will linger awhile in a twilight existence, arthritic and ineffectual, declining into a kind of societal dementia, unable to keep pace with what’s happening and with an ever more tenuous grip on its own past. For a while, there may still be an entity called the “United States,” but it will have fewer stars in the flag, there will be nothing to “unite” it, and it will bear no relation to the republic of limited government the first generation of Americans fought for. And life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness will be conspicuous by their absence." - After America, Mark Steyn

42

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
"Look around you. From now on, it only gets worse. In tens years’ time, there will be no American Dream, any more than there’s a Greek or Portugese Dream. In twenty, you’ll be living the American Nightmare, with large tracts of the country reduced to the favelas of Latin America, the rich fleeing for Bermuda or New Zealand or wherever on the planet they can buy a little time, and the rest trapped in the impoverished, violent, diseased ruins of utopian vanity.

“After America?” Yes. It will linger awhile in a twilight existence, arthritic and ineffectual, declining into a kind of societal dementia, unable to keep pace with what’s happening and with an ever more tenuous grip on its own past. For a while, there may still be an entity called the “United States,” but it will have fewer stars in the flag, there will be nothing to “unite” it, and it will bear no relation to the republic of limited government the first generation of Americans fought for. And life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness will be conspicuous by their absence." - After America, Mark Steyn[/quote]

Said the Canadian.

43

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

Show me EXACTLY where Italians are shitting on the American flag, I have NEVER heard of such a claim, EVER. Show me something, or SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT. You ain’t gonna just disrespect like that and talk to me like I got no nuts. As far as Grechi or Albanians, are we in Southern Italy or Albania ? Because this is America, and I have no say in what happens in another place but my own.
[/quote]

That is my point. Italian Americans do all the hyphenated bullshit, all the cultural organizations, all the impress Catholic church as far into gov’t as possible, and in their local school districts use public funds for Italian language/culture classes. All of that is not seen as invasive by you or any other. Which was the reason for my hyperbole of them ‘shitting on the American flag’. Beause according to you being hyphenated and promoting your culture in our local public school is as seditious as it is treasonous. That was the point of the hyperbole, I was making a mockery of your alarmism concerning Latinos by painting an analog with Italian Americans.

[quote]Maximus B wrote:

DUDE, you both attacked me for citing the ‘ban’ on Chicano Studies, and not Mexican-American studies ? You act like I enacted the ban myself ! I didn’t ban shit ! I didn’t even name the fucking classes either ! Secondly, in the very next paragraph, you even use ‘Chicano’ as an identity that Latino people relate to, but call me a fucking ham-handed twit for simply stating that the curriculum titled it that way? Dude, fuck you and suck a dick at the same time.
[/quote]

That’s the point once again. Perhaps, you’re not following the logic here. But you are saying that you are supportive of these measures Arizona is taking. Then go on to state that Latinos are so anti-Amurrican with their cultural studies and maintenance of their language.

Yet the classes banned were not ‘Mexican-American’ classes, they were Chicano Studies classes. Chicanos are a people who are descended from those gained post Mexican-American war, they are valid of an American ethnic group as the Cherokee or the Pennsylvania Dutch. Your attack was that Latinos at large are somehow carry dual loyalty and are irredentist. Yet the ban was on the study of an AMERICAN ETHNIC GROUP, not of some dual nationality bs.

How can that seem justifiable to you to systemitcally alienate and invalidate a constituent group within America that has been in Arizona for far longer than the Anglo-Saxon government has? This is akin to saying Cherokees have no right to study their history in Oklahoma.

I ask that you answer my question from my resposne to you.

[quote]Imagine that California was conquered by China, and they signed a treaty guranteeing your cultural and religious rights to carry on as you did before. Then 120 years from then, they had flooding the state demographically to the point that they constituted a slim majority. They tried to ban English language, disallow American history from public schools, and invalidate/bar you from gov’t in 100 different ways. Further, despite demanding that you ‘Assimilate’ to Han Chinese, they instead constantly refered to you as ‘illegals’ for being Anglo-Saxons. They blamed your community for the Americans from the mid-West that came to Sino-California for work. Then they imposed a system to crack down on this illegal immigraton that required you to carry papers on you at all times, and you would be randomly inspected simply for looking whitish. How would you feel?
[/quote]

And ya man, you were attacking me - remember this?

You make me out to be the problem when it’s people like me who just want Anglos to do whatever makes Anglos happy, and let Latino people do the same. You are the one taking the side of people who in their megalomaniacal designs want to impose their culture upon us and disempower those of our culture.

We never asked you to learn Spanish, we don’t ask you to join our culture. Is it unfair to ask that you not do the same to us? We’ve been for longer than you have in the US at large, and most specifically in the Southwest, yet you all act like we are goddamn invaders.
It doesn’t cost you shit to leave us be.

We are not starting this shit with Anglo-America, Anglo-America started this when the conquered the Southwest, and then robbed people of their rightfully titled land with no recourse. They started this when they systemitically imposed petty segregation to further humiliate Latino people in the region in the early 1900s. Now they pour salt on the wound, trying to basically make our culture entirely invalid, impotent and disempowered when they constitute a slim majority in New Mexico.

Seriously, wtf do you all gain by antagonizing Latinos? This is all going to blow back in 25 years, it’s not the history you want the next generation to remember.

Why not just respect us like the German Swiss respect the French Swiss, they are different but they are both still Swiss. It’s the same with the Anglo and the Latino in this great union of ours. We are not going to become Anglos, and we are not going to leave the country. We’re stuck together like it or not. Better to just get along.

44

[quote]maverick88 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
"Look around you. From now on, it only gets worse. In tens years’ time, there will be no American Dream, any more than there’s a Greek or Portugese Dream. In twenty, you’ll be living the American Nightmare, with large tracts of the country reduced to the favelas of Latin America, the rich fleeing for Bermuda or New Zealand or wherever on the planet they can buy a little time, and the rest trapped in the impoverished, violent, diseased ruins of utopian vanity.

“After America?” Yes. It will linger awhile in a twilight existence, arthritic and ineffectual, declining into a kind of societal dementia, unable to keep pace with what’s happening and with an ever more tenuous grip on its own past. For a while, there may still be an entity called the “United States,” but it will have fewer stars in the flag, there will be nothing to “unite” it, and it will bear no relation to the republic of limited government the first generation of Americans fought for. And life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness will be conspicuous by their absence." - After America, Mark Steyn[/quote]

Said the Canadian.

[/quote]

That was one scenario he gave. The other was that the people regain control over government and borders. An either/or scenario.

45

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Fella, I don’t care about the racial breakdown. Be it white or brown Hispanic. We’re talking about a Hispanic majority, period. And it will be major economic, criminal, and social entitlement issue. It it already is becoming one in individual states.
[/quote]

It would actually probably be incredibly beneficially as the under classes of Latinos are willing to work and are the ‘Asians of Trades.’ The Anglo-Saxon model of Lawyer/MBAor COD playing basement dweller pothead who works at manager of Chipotle is not the basis of a sound economy. With a Latino majority if representaton in trades follows we’d have a veritable army of tradesmen instead of slacker refuse.

Between Floridina engineers and MBAs, alongside the Chicano tradesmen, you’d have the potential to have a far more robust economy.

One of the ills of the current model is we simply don’t have enough people taking on the labor-intensive intermediate trades. The only group that has a balance of this, is Latinos. We can’t all be spoiled white girl photography majors, and homosexual white boy psychologists. That’s pretty much what your culture puts out en masse today. I don’t think that even with their SAT scores you can make an argument they are more valuable than the Latino machinists, carpenters, electricians and mechanics that are their parrallel representation.
[/quote]

Now, maybe I’m reading you wrong…On a second reading I get almost a racial-superiority vibe in your ‘Hispanic-breakdown.’ I’ll ask outright to get it out of the way. You don’t see Caucasian-latino as inherently more intelligent or upper-class than the darker-skinned hispanic, do you? Could be me reading something into it, but you’ve painted a racial-caste portrait of Hispanics. So, as you see it, is this cultural or racial? Not saying my reading is accurate, but clarity would be welcome.[/quote]

I don’t know about the a racial basis for intelligence. There have been some fairly believable studies indicating that on average people of Aboriginal and African descent are on average less intelligent than all other groups. However, there have also been great minds who have disagreed with this and stated some very valid objections.

One way or the other though, these studies have found Native American peoples to be slightly below their East Asian counterparts and within the range of Europeans in North America, and South Asians. Because of this considering that the a grand portion of the politically termed Latinos are Southern European blood mixed with Indigenous American then even with the prior intelligence studies given, there would be no real argument for them to be ‘genetically’ less intelligent than their counterparts. Further, there were great and highly advanced cvilizations that existed throughout Latin America before the Europeans came. Indeed these civilizations were as, and more advanced than the one that conquered it.

Thus I think the primary reason for lack of performance has to do with culturally and historical lack of education in the past several hundred years psot conquest. A culture of serfdom has taken root in many of these people, and they see labor as the only viable means for success.

You’ll notice that the largely Spanish descended Cuban Americans are the most educated ethnic group in America and far exceed the white Anglo-Saxon average.

For this reason, I think the inequity between the mestizo neo-serf and the Iberian overlord is a simlar paradigm as that of the Anglo-Saxon white and the Anglophone African American in the United States. However, I think statistically it cane be shown that the mestizo even with his lack of education in acdemia is higly hardworking and has a great deal of skills in trades that take intelligence to develop.

The problem is cultural in the larger Hispanic/Latino community therefore.

46

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Fella, I don’t care about the racial breakdown. Be it white or brown Hispanic. We’re talking about a Hispanic majority, period. And it will be major economic, criminal, and social entitlement issue. It it already is becoming one in individual states.
[/quote]

It would actually probably be incredibly beneficially as the under classes of Latinos are willing to work and are the ‘Asians of Trades.’ The Anglo-Saxon model of Lawyer/MBAor COD playing basement dweller pothead who works at manager of Chipotle is not the basis of a sound economy. With a Latino majority if representaton in trades follows we’d have a veritable army of tradesmen instead of slacker refuse.

Between Floridina engineers and MBAs, alongside the Chicano tradesmen, you’d have the potential to have a far more robust economy.

One of the ills of the current model is we simply don’t have enough people taking on the labor-intensive intermediate trades. The only group that has a balance of this, is Latinos. We can’t all be spoiled white girl photography majors, and homosexual white boy psychologists. That’s pretty much what your culture puts out en masse today. I don’t think that even with their SAT scores you can make an argument they are more valuable than the Latino machinists, carpenters, electricians and mechanics that are their parrallel representation.
[/quote]

Now, maybe I’m reading you wrong…On a second reading I get almost a racial-superiority vibe in your ‘Hispanic-breakdown.’ I’ll ask outright to get it out of the way. You don’t see Caucasian-latino as inherently more intelligent or upper-class than the darker-skinned hispanic, do you? Could be me reading something into it, but you’ve painted a racial-caste portrait of Hispanics. So, as you see it, is this cultural or racial? Not saying my reading is accurate, but clarity would be welcome.[/quote]

I don’t know about the a racial basis for intelligence. There have been some fairly believable studies indicating that on average people of Aboriginal and African descent are on average less intelligent than all other groups. However, there have also been great minds who have disagreed with this and stated some very valid objections.

One way or the other though, these studies have found Native American peoples to be slightly below their East Asian counterparts and within the range of Europeans in North America, and South Asians. Because of this considering that the a grand portion of the politically termed Latinos are Southern European blood mixed with Indigenous American then even with the prior intelligence studies given, there would be no real argument for them to be ‘genetically’ less intelligent than their counterparts. Further, there were great and highly advanced cvilizations that existed throughout Latin America before the Europeans came. Indeed these civilizations were as, and more advanced than the one that conquered it.

Thus I think the primary reason for lack of performance has to do with culturally and historical lack of education in the past several hundred years psot conquest. A culture of serfdom has taken root in many of these people, and they see labor as the only viable means for success.

You’ll notice that the largely Spanish descended Cuban Americans are the most educated ethnic group in America and far exceed the white Anglo-Saxon average.

For this reason, I think the inequity between the mestizo neo-serf and the Iberian overlord is a simlar paradigm as that of the Anglo-Saxon white and the Anglophone African American in the United States. However, I think statistically it cane be shown that the mestizo even with his lack of education in acdemia is higly hardworking and has a great deal of skills in trades that take intelligence to develop.

The problem is cultural in the larger Hispanic/Latino community therefore.[/quote]

I think it has to do with the group in question. Most that come to the U.S. illegally are from poor towns where most work from a very young age for little money, school is not a priority. In many Latin countries those with more Indigenous/African blood are discriminated against/do not have the same opportunities. Those in larger cities are usually much more educated and see no need to come the U.S.

47

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Fella, I don’t care about the racial breakdown. Be it white or brown Hispanic. We’re talking about a Hispanic majority, period. And it will be major economic, criminal, and social entitlement issue. It it already is becoming one in individual states.
[/quote]

It would actually probably be incredibly beneficially as the under classes of Latinos are willing to work and are the ‘Asians of Trades.’ The Anglo-Saxon model of Lawyer/MBAor COD playing basement dweller pothead who works at manager of Chipotle is not the basis of a sound economy. With a Latino majority if representaton in trades follows we’d have a veritable army of tradesmen instead of slacker refuse.

Between Floridina engineers and MBAs, alongside the Chicano tradesmen, you’d have the potential to have a far more robust economy.

One of the ills of the current model is we simply don’t have enough people taking on the labor-intensive intermediate trades. The only group that has a balance of this, is Latinos. We can’t all be spoiled white girl photography majors, and homosexual white boy psychologists. That’s pretty much what your culture puts out en masse today. I don’t think that even with their SAT scores you can make an argument they are more valuable than the Latino machinists, carpenters, electricians and mechanics that are their parrallel representation.
[/quote]

Now, maybe I’m reading you wrong…On a second reading I get almost a racial-superiority vibe in your ‘Hispanic-breakdown.’ I’ll ask outright to get it out of the way. You don’t see Caucasian-latino as inherently more intelligent or upper-class than the darker-skinned hispanic, do you? Could be me reading something into it, but you’ve painted a racial-caste portrait of Hispanics. So, as you see it, is this cultural or racial? Not saying my reading is accurate, but clarity would be welcome.[/quote]

I don’t know about the a racial basis for intelligence. There have been some fairly believable studies indicating that on average people of Aboriginal and African descent are on average less intelligent than all other groups. However, there have also been great minds who have disagreed with this and stated some very valid objections.

One way or the other though, these studies have found Native American peoples to be slightly below their East Asian counterparts and within the range of Europeans in North America, and South Asians. Because of this considering that the a grand portion of the politically termed Latinos are Southern European blood mixed with Indigenous American then even with the prior intelligence studies given, there would be no real argument for them to be ‘genetically’ less intelligent than their counterparts. Further, there were great and highly advanced cvilizations that existed throughout Latin America before the Europeans came. Indeed these civilizations were as, and more advanced than the one that conquered it.

Thus I think the primary reason for lack of performance has to do with culturally and historical lack of education in the past several hundred years psot conquest. A culture of serfdom has taken root in many of these people, and they see labor as the only viable means for success.

You’ll notice that the largely Spanish descended Cuban Americans are the most educated ethnic group in America and far exceed the white Anglo-Saxon average.

For this reason, I think the inequity between the mestizo neo-serf and the Iberian overlord is a simlar paradigm as that of the Anglo-Saxon white and the Anglophone African American in the United States. However, I think statistically it cane be shown that the mestizo even with his lack of education in acdemia is higly hardworking and has a great deal of skills in trades that take intelligence to develop.

The problem is cultural in the larger Hispanic/Latino community therefore.[/quote]

I think it has to do with the group in question. Most that come to the U.S. illegally are from poor towns where most work from a very young age for little money, school is not a priority. In many Latin countries those with more Indigenous/African blood are discriminated against/do not have the same opportunities. Those in larger cities are usually much more educated and see no need to come the U.S.

[/quote]

You are spot on. Most people seem to forget that the per capita income in Mexico City is 30k + a year (usd), and about 20 million people live there which is twice the population of Portugual. That Mexico is far more significant economically than South Korea is and has a comparable number of highly educated people and developed industry. They think Latin America is some Togo-esque Banana Republic shithole or something, when the mean of HDI for the region is comparable to that of former Soviet Bloc.

48


Pictured, every country south of the border. i see great things in the future of the US when the Latinos “revolt”

49

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
Arizona had a majority Latino population until the mid 1950s. It was conquered from Mexico, and inherited a large Spanish speaking population at that time. Immigration in recent history has enabled a now Anglo-Saxon majority to turn the tables on the Latino plurality. Spanish speaks didn’t just run the border and appear 10 years ago. They have been there long before the English speakers, and it was the English speakers who ran the border and took over. As so many Anglos seem to fear Mexicans doing.

It is NOT JUST for a region that has consistently been either primarily, and now substantially Spanish speaking to attempt to disempower a culture that has been there longer than those now in power.

Arizona should have Spanish as a co-official language alongside English, just like New Mexico. This bid to systemitically punish and disempower a group of people who never asked to be conquered is BULLSHIT.

Them speaking Spanish doesn’t mean you can’t speak English or have to learn Spanish. Instead it simply means respecting the culture of a people who have been there in substantial representation far longer than the Anglos have…hence the name Arizona (Arid-Zone or Dryland more vernacularly).

If the Anglos want to rob the Latinos of their rights, after they signed the treaty to take over their land…they are going to quickly learn you can’t have your cake and eat it to.

Conquered people don’t tolerate being conquered if they are not allowed to live and carry on unmolested. If you think might makes right, then don’t get all fussy when Latinos revolt and tear these Rednecks up piece by piece. They will show you what petty is, because remember demographically the future is in our court. If you treat us with disrespect, then soon enough we’ll turn the tables on you. You will reap what you sow.[/quote]

At least they weren’t systematically annihilated and then rounded up and put on reservations.

Shit…maybe they should be?
[/quote]

This is why when you fight a war you kill all your enemy, man woman and child alike. Never leave behind you a man woman or child who can ever carry a sword, or gun.

50

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
Arizona had a majority Latino population until the mid 1950s. It was conquered from Mexico, and inherited a large Spanish speaking population at that time. Immigration in recent history has enabled a now Anglo-Saxon majority to turn the tables on the Latino plurality. Spanish speaks didn’t just run the border and appear 10 years ago. They have been there long before the English speakers, and it was the English speakers who ran the border and took over. As so many Anglos seem to fear Mexicans doing.

It is NOT JUST for a region that has consistently been either primarily, and now substantially Spanish speaking to attempt to disempower a culture that has been there longer than those now in power.

Arizona should have Spanish as a co-official language alongside English, just like New Mexico. This bid to systemitically punish and disempower a group of people who never asked to be conquered is BULLSHIT.

Them speaking Spanish doesn’t mean you can’t speak English or have to learn Spanish. Instead it simply means respecting the culture of a people who have been there in substantial representation far longer than the Anglos have…hence the name Arizona (Arid-Zone or Dryland more vernacularly).

If the Anglos want to rob the Latinos of their rights, after they signed the treaty to take over their land…they are going to quickly learn you can’t have your cake and eat it to.

Conquered people don’t tolerate being conquered if they are not allowed to live and carry on unmolested. If you think might makes right, then don’t get all fussy when Latinos revolt and tear these Rednecks up piece by piece. They will show you what petty is, because remember demographically the future is in our court. If you treat us with disrespect, then soon enough we’ll turn the tables on you. You will reap what you sow.[/quote]

What does this mythical idea have to do with a woman who has shown she should not run for public office because has shown to not be proficient in English ?

Also, how are their rights being robbed ? Specifically, where are you getting this ?

SB 1070 is good, which is why SCOTUS took it up, and which is why Obama shit his pants when they did. [/quote]

This isn’t even about SB 1070. TBH, I was troubled by the ‘where are your papers’ aspect of it, but it is a worrisome truth that Arizona was 10% illegal immigrant at the time it was passed. I think that border integrity should be enforced because it is the law. When countries stop enforcing their laws, everything breaks down.

However, I personally agree with Bush the Younger, when he said (roughly quoted from memory) “Illegal immigration will never be stopped until we provide a legal path for these people to come and work in the USA.” The illegals are literally DYING (bodies litter the Sonora desert) just to do jobs that a welfare queen would bitterly accept. That however is not dealt with by breaking the law, that has to do with changing immigration policy in general.

The issue I am specifically referring to is the other injustices that hover around those who made prior legislation. The ‘English Spoken Here’ law that forbade the use of Spanish by public officials in 1986, and the recent Government mandated ban on Chicano history.

They are telling us, we cannot speak our language even though we have been there before they have, even though we were a majority and now have been around 1/3rd of the population since the mid 1950s.

They are telling us that despite the fact we pay goddamn taxes to this educations ystem, that our ‘culture’ and ‘history’ are banned. That our culture and our history are high treason and an eye sore to that of the conqueror.

This “English proficiency” bs is exactly a manifestation of that. If the woman is a representative of her community of Spanish speaking people, then why the hell does she need to speak English?

Shit like this was the basis of the Quebecois revolution, and is why Quebec shook Canada to the core when they were tired of taking that shit.

If you want to treat us like dogs, expect to get bitten when the tables turned.
Noone is making you speak Spanish, noone is telling you can’t teach your history, noone is telling you, you have to learn our history. However, you Anglos want to crush our history, want silence our language…and why? So you can finally totally dominate us?

Fuck that. We will fight back if you push too hard, because those who are pushed will eventually push back.[/quote]

I can tell you never even read the law, just like Obama, just like Holder, when SB 1070 came out. You should try pulling this shit in other countries, NO other country is so nice to people here illegally.

Bush was pandering for your vote, and he got it. Obama did the same thing, yet he has deported more people than any other president in history, yet you still support him. That’s your choice, not mine. Bush was also wrong about legalization being the only way. If you cut off the jobs, and deport people from within the city (like Secure Communities does), they leave. Alabama has seen an almost 2% drop in their unemployment rate since they passed their law.

You are wrong about the Chicano Studies ban. It’s not supported IN PUBLIC SCHOOL, which means you can be taught in private schools, so there is no censorship involved. Why the hell are you so pissed off anyways ? Do you see ANY other culture get such privilege in schools ? Shit, everything is bilingual, you get preferential treatment for financial aid, you get in-state tuition, and you STILL fucking complain ? How many other cultures get this treatment ? NONE.

Who is trying to dominating you ? Because, to me, everyone gets hit by taxes, inflation, parking tickets, fees, traffic, gravity, wrinkles, and even a shitty episode of Jersey Shore.

If you feel that way, why aren’t you criticizing the person who questioned the proficiency thing, a fellow Latino by the way.
[/quote]

I like this post. I support this post x9000000000000000.

51

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

Show me EXACTLY where Italians are shitting on the American flag, I have NEVER heard of such a claim, EVER. Show me something, or SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT. You ain’t gonna just disrespect like that and talk to me like I got no nuts. As far as Grechi or Albanians, are we in Southern Italy or Albania ? Because this is America, and I have no say in what happens in another place but my own.
[/quote]

That is my point. Italian Americans do all the hyphenated bullshit, all the cultural organizations, all the impress Catholic church as far into gov’t as possible, and in their local school districts use public funds for Italian language/culture classes. All of that is not seen as invasive by you or any other. Which was the reason for my hyperbole of them ‘shitting on the American flag’. Beause according to you being hyphenated and promoting your culture in our local public school is as seditious as it is treasonous. That was the point of the hyperbole, I was making a mockery of your alarmism concerning Latinos by painting an analog with Italian Americans.

In other words, NO Italians were shitting on America. Like I said, post proof, or STFU. SO STFU.

[quote]Maximus B wrote:

DUDE, you both attacked me for citing the ‘ban’ on Chicano Studies, and not Mexican-American studies ? You act like I enacted the ban myself ! I didn’t ban shit ! I didn’t even name the fucking classes either ! Secondly, in the very next paragraph, you even use ‘Chicano’ as an identity that Latino people relate to, but call me a fucking ham-handed twit for simply stating that the curriculum titled it that way? Dude, fuck you and suck a dick at the same time.
[/quote]

That’s the point once again. Perhaps, you’re not following the logic here. But you are saying that you are supportive of these measures Arizona is taking. Then go on to state that Latinos are so anti-Amurrican with their cultural studies and maintenance of their language.

I am saying that the material being taught in these classes is very divisive and hateful, Adolfo Hitler would be very proud. I have seen some of the literature, and it’s downright venomous verbiage. The ban says it will not be taught in public schools, which means you can teach in private education. I am just fine with that, the same way I would be fine with an anti-Nazi ban. Would you be so supportive if a school wanted to teach a pro 3rd Reich class ?

Yet the classes banned were not ‘Mexican-American’ classes, they were Chicano Studies classes. Chicanos are a people who are descended from those gained post Mexican-American war, they are valid of an American ethnic group as the Cherokee or the Pennsylvania Dutch. Your attack was that Latinos at large are somehow carry dual loyalty and are irredentist. Yet the ban was on the study of an AMERICAN ETHNIC GROUP, not of some dual nationality bs.

You’re right, there is no dual loyalty. They love Mexico only, which was shown when they booed the US National Anthem at the Gold Cup here in Los Angeles (USA vs Mexico soccer game). Note, I have on issue with cheering for another team, but when you boo their national anthem when it’s being played, that’s fucking lame. They came to the US for a better life, but couldn’t even show enough respect to let Americans sing their own anthem ? Child please.

How can that seem justifiable to you to systemitcally alienate and invalidate a constituent group within America that has been in Arizona for far longer than the Anglo-Saxon government has? This is akin to saying Cherokees have no right to study their history in Oklahoma.

So how far do we take this shit ? Do we now have Sioux Studies, Cherokee Studies, Iriquoi Studies ? And if we don’t cater to everyone, why does one group get preference over another ? Will EVERYONE who doesn’t suppoer EVERYONE’S studies be deemed racist ? Because that is the horseshit tactic and mentality you use EACH AND EVERY TIME.

I ask that you answer my question from my resposne to you.

[quote]Imagine that California was conquered by China, and they signed a treaty guranteeing your cultural and religious rights to carry on as you did before. Then 120 years from then, they had flooding the state demographically to the point that they constituted a slim majority. They tried to ban English language, disallow American history from public schools, and invalidate/bar you from gov’t in 100 different ways. Further, despite demanding that you ‘Assimilate’ to Han Chinese, they instead constantly refered to you as ‘illegals’ for being Anglo-Saxons. They blamed your community for the Americans from the mid-West that came to Sino-California for work. Then they imposed a system to crack down on this illegal immigraton that required you to carry papers on you at all times, and you would be randomly inspected simply for looking whitish. How would you feel?
[/quote]

That is what comes with winning a war. The winner makes the rules. I can keep it real, unlike you.

And ya man, you were attacking me - remember this?

And do YOU remember when you said this ?..

“If you think might makes right, then don’t get all fussy when Latinos revolt and tear these Rednecks up piece by piece. They will show you what petty is, because remember demographically the future is in our court. If you treat us with disrespect, then soon enough we’ll turn the tables on you. You will reap what you sow.”

Dude, you want to call out and threaten “these rednecks” well I don’t really care to hear that type of shit. Some of us swarthy mother fuckers ain’t ever scared, so please don’t talk like you’re some straight up G, because some of us are willing to speak the fuck up about it. Tear up rednecks eh ? And you say I started this shit ?

You make me out to be the problem when it’s people like me who just want Anglos to do whatever makes Anglos happy, and let Latino people do the same. You are the one taking the side of people who in their megalomaniacal designs want to impose their culture upon us and disempower those of our culture.

As you said, you bred yourself into the electorate, so how can I disempower you ? I have never seen so much catering to any one given culture, it’s downright pathetic. And you STILL don’t show up in improved scores in schools, upward gentrification of communities, yet speak out about it, and the Tan Klan screams racism.

We never asked you to learn Spanish, we don’t ask you to join our culture. Is it unfair to ask that you not do the same to us? We’ve been for longer than you have in the US at large, and most specifically in the Southwest, yet you all act like we are goddamn invaders.
It doesn’t cost you shit to leave us be.

We are not starting this shit with Anglo-America, Anglo-America started this when the conquered the Southwest, and then robbed people of their rightfully titled land with no recourse. They started this when they systemitically imposed petty segregation to further humiliate Latino people in the region in the early 1900s. Now they pour salt on the wound, trying to basically make our culture entirely invalid, impotent and disempowered when they constitute a slim majority in New Mexico.

Seriously, wtf do you all gain by antagonizing Latinos? This is all going to blow back in 25 years, it’s not the history you want the next generation to remember.

Why not just respect us like the German Swiss respect the French Swiss, they are different but they are both still Swiss. It’s the same with the Anglo and the Latino in this great union of ours. We are not going to become Anglos, and we are not going to leave the country. We’re stuck together like it or not. Better to just get along.

Well your increased presence here has not done wonders with our society. Among the least educated cities, California has 4 of them. Fucking awesome. LA County spends $1.5 Billion on illegal alien health care alone, that’s not even all of California, just LA County. Stop whining about your alleged presence having a good effect on society, because I have YET to see the return on our “investment.” Getting along means you do better. Sick and fucking tired of these people not getting with the program. They come here for a better life, only to burden everyone else in that process. Something to consider, Mexico built a wall on their Southern Border, yet only WE are the racists. Priceless.

[/quote]

Come to Los Angeles, and let me show you once great neighborhoods, now resembling Tijuana barrios. This ain’t Missouri. No one is saying you should become Anglo, but staying Mexicano ain’t doing much good for you. When you come here, don’t live like you’re still in Mexico. Think of America as a country club. When you let just anyone in, it goes to total shit. We would like to see you do more than monopolize the landscaping and nanny industries. Rather than bring the poverty and crime with you, come up and do better. Don’t make us dumb down our standards because you can’t cut it.

Alot of people are thinking it, I have the nuts to say it. When the rich leave because they have to pay for the poor, what do you get ? $2.6 Billion in more spending and $2.6 Billion in less revenue. More awesomeness. Fucking yay.

52

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
Arizona had a majority Latino population until the mid 1950s. It was conquered from Mexico, and inherited a large Spanish speaking population at that time. Immigration in recent history has enabled a now Anglo-Saxon majority to turn the tables on the Latino plurality. Spanish speaks didn’t just run the border and appear 10 years ago. They have been there long before the English speakers, and it was the English speakers who ran the border and took over. As so many Anglos seem to fear Mexicans doing.

It is NOT JUST for a region that has consistently been either primarily, and now substantially Spanish speaking to attempt to disempower a culture that has been there longer than those now in power.

Arizona should have Spanish as a co-official language alongside English, just like New Mexico. This bid to systemitically punish and disempower a group of people who never asked to be conquered is BULLSHIT.

Them speaking Spanish doesn’t mean you can’t speak English or have to learn Spanish. Instead it simply means respecting the culture of a people who have been there in substantial representation far longer than the Anglos have…hence the name Arizona (Arid-Zone or Dryland more vernacularly).

If the Anglos want to rob the Latinos of their rights, after they signed the treaty to take over their land…they are going to quickly learn you can’t have your cake and eat it to.

Conquered people don’t tolerate being conquered if they are not allowed to live and carry on unmolested. If you think might makes right, then don’t get all fussy when Latinos revolt and tear these Rednecks up piece by piece. They will show you what petty is, because remember demographically the future is in our court. If you treat us with disrespect, then soon enough we’ll turn the tables on you. You will reap what you sow.[/quote]

What does this mythical idea have to do with a woman who has shown she should not run for public office because has shown to not be proficient in English ?

Also, how are their rights being robbed ? Specifically, where are you getting this ?

SB 1070 is good, which is why SCOTUS took it up, and which is why Obama shit his pants when they did. [/quote]

This isn’t even about SB 1070. TBH, I was troubled by the ‘where are your papers’ aspect of it, but it is a worrisome truth that Arizona was 10% illegal immigrant at the time it was passed. I think that border integrity should be enforced because it is the law. When countries stop enforcing their laws, everything breaks down.

However, I personally agree with Bush the Younger, when he said (roughly quoted from memory) “Illegal immigration will never be stopped until we provide a legal path for these people to come and work in the USA.” The illegals are literally DYING (bodies litter the Sonora desert) just to do jobs that a welfare queen would bitterly accept. That however is not dealt with by breaking the law, that has to do with changing immigration policy in general.

The issue I am specifically referring to is the other injustices that hover around those who made prior legislation. The ‘English Spoken Here’ law that forbade the use of Spanish by public officials in 1986, and the recent Government mandated ban on Chicano history.

They are telling us, we cannot speak our language even though we have been there before they have, even though we were a majority and now have been around 1/3rd of the population since the mid 1950s.

They are telling us that despite the fact we pay goddamn taxes to this educations ystem, that our ‘culture’ and ‘history’ are banned. That our culture and our history are high treason and an eye sore to that of the conqueror.

This “English proficiency” bs is exactly a manifestation of that. If the woman is a representative of her community of Spanish speaking people, then why the hell does she need to speak English?

Shit like this was the basis of the Quebecois revolution, and is why Quebec shook Canada to the core when they were tired of taking that shit.

If you want to treat us like dogs, expect to get bitten when the tables turned.
Noone is making you speak Spanish, noone is telling you can’t teach your history, noone is telling you, you have to learn our history. However, you Anglos want to crush our history, want silence our language…and why? So you can finally totally dominate us?

Fuck that. We will fight back if you push too hard, because those who are pushed will eventually push back.[/quote]

I can tell you never even read the law, just like Obama, just like Holder, when SB 1070 came out. You should try pulling this shit in other countries, NO other country is so nice to people here illegally.

Bush was pandering for your vote, and he got it. Obama did the same thing, yet he has deported more people than any other president in history, yet you still support him. That’s your choice, not mine. Bush was also wrong about legalization being the only way. If you cut off the jobs, and deport people from within the city (like Secure Communities does), they leave. Alabama has seen an almost 2% drop in their unemployment rate since they passed their law.

You are wrong about the Chicano Studies ban. It’s not supported IN PUBLIC SCHOOL, which means you can be taught in private schools, so there is no censorship involved. Why the hell are you so pissed off anyways ? Do you see ANY other culture get such privilege in schools ? Shit, everything is bilingual, you get preferential treatment for financial aid, you get in-state tuition, and you STILL fucking complain ? How many other cultures get this treatment ? NONE.

Who is trying to dominating you ? Because, to me, everyone gets hit by taxes, inflation, parking tickets, fees, traffic, gravity, wrinkles, and even a shitty episode of Jersey Shore.

If you feel that way, why aren’t you criticizing the person who questioned the proficiency thing, a fellow Latino by the way.
[/quote]

I like this post. I support this post x9000000000000000.
[/quote]

You like a post that was ripped apart?

53

[quote]maverick88 wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
Arizona had a majority Latino population until the mid 1950s. It was conquered from Mexico, and inherited a large Spanish speaking population at that time. Immigration in recent history has enabled a now Anglo-Saxon majority to turn the tables on the Latino plurality. Spanish speaks didn’t just run the border and appear 10 years ago. They have been there long before the English speakers, and it was the English speakers who ran the border and took over. As so many Anglos seem to fear Mexicans doing.

It is NOT JUST for a region that has consistently been either primarily, and now substantially Spanish speaking to attempt to disempower a culture that has been there longer than those now in power.

Arizona should have Spanish as a co-official language alongside English, just like New Mexico. This bid to systemitically punish and disempower a group of people who never asked to be conquered is BULLSHIT.

Them speaking Spanish doesn’t mean you can’t speak English or have to learn Spanish. Instead it simply means respecting the culture of a people who have been there in substantial representation far longer than the Anglos have…hence the name Arizona (Arid-Zone or Dryland more vernacularly).

If the Anglos want to rob the Latinos of their rights, after they signed the treaty to take over their land…they are going to quickly learn you can’t have your cake and eat it to.

Conquered people don’t tolerate being conquered if they are not allowed to live and carry on unmolested. If you think might makes right, then don’t get all fussy when Latinos revolt and tear these Rednecks up piece by piece. They will show you what petty is, because remember demographically the future is in our court. If you treat us with disrespect, then soon enough we’ll turn the tables on you. You will reap what you sow.[/quote]

What does this mythical idea have to do with a woman who has shown she should not run for public office because has shown to not be proficient in English ?

Also, how are their rights being robbed ? Specifically, where are you getting this ?

SB 1070 is good, which is why SCOTUS took it up, and which is why Obama shit his pants when they did. [/quote]

This isn’t even about SB 1070. TBH, I was troubled by the ‘where are your papers’ aspect of it, but it is a worrisome truth that Arizona was 10% illegal immigrant at the time it was passed. I think that border integrity should be enforced because it is the law. When countries stop enforcing their laws, everything breaks down.

However, I personally agree with Bush the Younger, when he said (roughly quoted from memory) “Illegal immigration will never be stopped until we provide a legal path for these people to come and work in the USA.” The illegals are literally DYING (bodies litter the Sonora desert) just to do jobs that a welfare queen would bitterly accept. That however is not dealt with by breaking the law, that has to do with changing immigration policy in general.

The issue I am specifically referring to is the other injustices that hover around those who made prior legislation. The ‘English Spoken Here’ law that forbade the use of Spanish by public officials in 1986, and the recent Government mandated ban on Chicano history.

They are telling us, we cannot speak our language even though we have been there before they have, even though we were a majority and now have been around 1/3rd of the population since the mid 1950s.

They are telling us that despite the fact we pay goddamn taxes to this educations ystem, that our ‘culture’ and ‘history’ are banned. That our culture and our history are high treason and an eye sore to that of the conqueror.

This “English proficiency” bs is exactly a manifestation of that. If the woman is a representative of her community of Spanish speaking people, then why the hell does she need to speak English?

Shit like this was the basis of the Quebecois revolution, and is why Quebec shook Canada to the core when they were tired of taking that shit.

If you want to treat us like dogs, expect to get bitten when the tables turned.
Noone is making you speak Spanish, noone is telling you can’t teach your history, noone is telling you, you have to learn our history. However, you Anglos want to crush our history, want silence our language…and why? So you can finally totally dominate us?

Fuck that. We will fight back if you push too hard, because those who are pushed will eventually push back.[/quote]

I can tell you never even read the law, just like Obama, just like Holder, when SB 1070 came out. You should try pulling this shit in other countries, NO other country is so nice to people here illegally.

Bush was pandering for your vote, and he got it. Obama did the same thing, yet he has deported more people than any other president in history, yet you still support him. That’s your choice, not mine. Bush was also wrong about legalization being the only way. If you cut off the jobs, and deport people from within the city (like Secure Communities does), they leave. Alabama has seen an almost 2% drop in their unemployment rate since they passed their law.

You are wrong about the Chicano Studies ban. It’s not supported IN PUBLIC SCHOOL, which means you can be taught in private schools, so there is no censorship involved. Why the hell are you so pissed off anyways ? Do you see ANY other culture get such privilege in schools ? Shit, everything is bilingual, you get preferential treatment for financial aid, you get in-state tuition, and you STILL fucking complain ? How many other cultures get this treatment ? NONE.

Who is trying to dominating you ? Because, to me, everyone gets hit by taxes, inflation, parking tickets, fees, traffic, gravity, wrinkles, and even a shitty episode of Jersey Shore.

If you feel that way, why aren’t you criticizing the person who questioned the proficiency thing, a fellow Latino by the way.
[/quote]

I like this post. I support this post x9000000000000000.
[/quote]

You like a post that was ripped apart?[/quote]

No, I like Max’s post. I just didn’t feel like cutting the rest of the shit out. I just woke up for crying out loud, please don’t make me have to think.

54

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

Show me EXACTLY where Italians are shitting on the American flag, I have NEVER heard of such a claim, EVER. Show me something, or SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT. You ain’t gonna just disrespect like that and talk to me like I got no nuts. As far as Grechi or Albanians, are we in Southern Italy or Albania ? Because this is America, and I have no say in what happens in another place but my own.
[/quote]

That is my point. Italian Americans do all the hyphenated bullshit, all the cultural organizations, all the impress Catholic church as far into gov’t as possible, and in their local school districts use public funds for Italian language/culture classes. All of that is not seen as invasive by you or any other. Which was the reason for my hyperbole of them ‘shitting on the American flag’. Beause according to you being hyphenated and promoting your culture in our local public school is as seditious as it is treasonous. That was the point of the hyperbole, I was making a mockery of your alarmism concerning Latinos by painting an analog with Italian Americans.

In other words, NO Italians were shitting on America. Like I said, post proof, or STFU. SO STFU.

[quote]Maximus B wrote:

DUDE, you both attacked me for citing the ‘ban’ on Chicano Studies, and not Mexican-American studies ? You act like I enacted the ban myself ! I didn’t ban shit ! I didn’t even name the fucking classes either ! Secondly, in the very next paragraph, you even use ‘Chicano’ as an identity that Latino people relate to, but call me a fucking ham-handed twit for simply stating that the curriculum titled it that way? Dude, fuck you and suck a dick at the same time.
[/quote]

That’s the point once again. Perhaps, you’re not following the logic here. But you are saying that you are supportive of these measures Arizona is taking. Then go on to state that Latinos are so anti-Amurrican with their cultural studies and maintenance of their language.

I am saying that the material being taught in these classes is very divisive and hateful, Adolfo Hitler would be very proud. I have seen some of the literature, and it’s downright venomous verbiage. The ban says it will not be taught in public schools, which means you can teach in private education. I am just fine with that, the same way I would be fine with an anti-Nazi ban. Would you be so supportive if a school wanted to teach a pro 3rd Reich class ?

Yet the classes banned were not ‘Mexican-American’ classes, they were Chicano Studies classes. Chicanos are a people who are descended from those gained post Mexican-American war, they are valid of an American ethnic group as the Cherokee or the Pennsylvania Dutch. Your attack was that Latinos at large are somehow carry dual loyalty and are irredentist. Yet the ban was on the study of an AMERICAN ETHNIC GROUP, not of some dual nationality bs.

You’re right, there is no dual loyalty. They love Mexico only, which was shown when they booed the US National Anthem at the Gold Cup here in Los Angeles (USA vs Mexico soccer game). Note, I have on issue with cheering for another team, but when you boo their national anthem when it’s being played, that’s fucking lame. They came to the US for a better life, but couldn’t even show enough respect to let Americans sing their own anthem ? Child please.

How can that seem justifiable to you to systemitcally alienate and invalidate a constituent group within America that has been in Arizona for far longer than the Anglo-Saxon government has? This is akin to saying Cherokees have no right to study their history in Oklahoma.

So how far do we take this shit ? Do we now have Sioux Studies, Cherokee Studies, Iriquoi Studies ? And if we don’t cater to everyone, why does one group get preference over another ? Will EVERYONE who doesn’t suppoer EVERYONE’S studies be deemed racist ? Because that is the horseshit tactic and mentality you use EACH AND EVERY TIME.

I ask that you answer my question from my resposne to you.

[quote]Imagine that California was conquered by China, and they signed a treaty guranteeing your cultural and religious rights to carry on as you did before. Then 120 years from then, they had flooding the state demographically to the point that they constituted a slim majority. They tried to ban English language, disallow American history from public schools, and invalidate/bar you from gov’t in 100 different ways. Further, despite demanding that you ‘Assimilate’ to Han Chinese, they instead constantly refered to you as ‘illegals’ for being Anglo-Saxons. They blamed your community for the Americans from the mid-West that came to Sino-California for work. Then they imposed a system to crack down on this illegal immigraton that required you to carry papers on you at all times, and you would be randomly inspected simply for looking whitish. How would you feel?
[/quote]

That is what comes with winning a war. The winner makes the rules. I can keep it real, unlike you.

And ya man, you were attacking me - remember this?

And do YOU remember when you said this ?..

“If you think might makes right, then don’t get all fussy when Latinos revolt and tear these Rednecks up piece by piece. They will show you what petty is, because remember demographically the future is in our court. If you treat us with disrespect, then soon enough we’ll turn the tables on you. You will reap what you sow.”

Dude, you want to call out and threaten “these rednecks” well I don’t really care to hear that type of shit. Some of us swarthy mother fuckers ain’t ever scared, so please don’t talk like you’re some straight up G, because some of us are willing to speak the fuck up about it. Tear up rednecks eh ? And you say I started this shit ?

You make me out to be the problem when it’s people like me who just want Anglos to do whatever makes Anglos happy, and let Latino people do the same. You are the one taking the side of people who in their megalomaniacal designs want to impose their culture upon us and disempower those of our culture.

As you said, you bred yourself into the electorate, so how can I disempower you ? I have never seen so much catering to any one given culture, it’s downright pathetic. And you STILL don’t show up in improved scores in schools, upward gentrification of communities, yet speak out about it, and the Tan Klan screams racism.

We never asked you to learn Spanish, we don’t ask you to join our culture. Is it unfair to ask that you not do the same to us? We’ve been for longer than you have in the US at large, and most specifically in the Southwest, yet you all act like we are goddamn invaders.
It doesn’t cost you shit to leave us be.

We are not starting this shit with Anglo-America, Anglo-America started this when the conquered the Southwest, and then robbed people of their rightfully titled land with no recourse. They started this when they systemitically imposed petty segregation to further humiliate Latino people in the region in the early 1900s. Now they pour salt on the wound, trying to basically make our culture entirely invalid, impotent and disempowered when they constitute a slim majority in New Mexico.

Seriously, wtf do you all gain by antagonizing Latinos? This is all going to blow back in 25 years, it’s not the history you want the next generation to remember.

Why not just respect us like the German Swiss respect the French Swiss, they are different but they are both still Swiss. It’s the same with the Anglo and the Latino in this great union of ours. We are not going to become Anglos, and we are not going to leave the country. We’re stuck together like it or not. Better to just get along.

Well your increased presence here has not done wonders with our society. Among the least educated cities, California has 4 of them. Fucking awesome. LA County spends $1.5 Billion on illegal alien health care alone, that’s not even all of California, just LA County. Stop whining about your alleged presence having a good effect on society, because I have YET to see the return on our “investment.” Getting along means you do better. Sick and fucking tired of these people not getting with the program. They come here for a better life, only to burden everyone else in that process. Something to consider, Mexico built a wall on their Southern Border, yet only WE are the racists. Priceless.

[/quote]

Come to Los Angeles, and let me show you once great neighborhoods, now resembling Tijuana barrios. This ain’t Missouri. No one is saying you should become Anglo, but staying Mexicano ain’t doing much good for you. When you come here, don’t live like you’re still in Mexico. Think of America as a country club. When you let just anyone in, it goes to total shit. We would like to see you do more than monopolize the landscaping and nanny industries. Rather than bring the poverty and crime with you, come up and do better. Don’t make us dumb down our standards because you can’t cut it.

Alot of people are thinking it, I have the nuts to say it. When the rich leave because they have to pay for the poor, what do you get ? $2.6 Billion in more spending and $2.6 Billion in less revenue. More awesomeness. Fucking yay.[/quote]

Well put, and spot on.

I don’t give a shit who comes to my neighborhood…but don’t come in and fuck shit up.

If the majority of mexicans that come to the U.S. illegally are the lower classes…well that fucking annoys me. Because they suck up the social services, pop out anchor babies and fill up the jails…FUCK THAT.

Why is this ok?

And this does not even address the EPIC hypocrisy of Mexican immigration law that is FAR MORE INVASIVE than the U.S. law that the Latino community is FREAKING THE FUCK OUT OVER.

And the fact that the Spanish took over mexico from the indian indigenous population…but they are not trying to give shit back to those poor fuckers.

55

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

Show me EXACTLY where Italians are shitting on the American flag, I have NEVER heard of such a claim, EVER. Show me something, or SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT. You ain’t gonna just disrespect like that and talk to me like I got no nuts. As far as Grechi or Albanians, are we in Southern Italy or Albania ? Because this is America, and I have no say in what happens in another place but my own.
[/quote]

That is my point. Italian Americans do all the hyphenated bullshit, all the cultural organizations, all the impress Catholic church as far into gov’t as possible, and in their local school districts use public funds for Italian language/culture classes. All of that is not seen as invasive by you or any other. Which was the reason for my hyperbole of them ‘shitting on the American flag’. Beause according to you being hyphenated and promoting your culture in our local public school is as seditious as it is treasonous. That was the point of the hyperbole, I was making a mockery of your alarmism concerning Latinos by painting an analog with Italian Americans.

In other words, NO Italians were shitting on America. Like I said, post proof, or STFU. SO STFU.

[quote]Maximus B wrote:

DUDE, you both attacked me for citing the ‘ban’ on Chicano Studies, and not Mexican-American studies ? You act like I enacted the ban myself ! I didn’t ban shit ! I didn’t even name the fucking classes either ! Secondly, in the very next paragraph, you even use ‘Chicano’ as an identity that Latino people relate to, but call me a fucking ham-handed twit for simply stating that the curriculum titled it that way? Dude, fuck you and suck a dick at the same time.
[/quote]

That’s the point once again. Perhaps, you’re not following the logic here. But you are saying that you are supportive of these measures Arizona is taking. Then go on to state that Latinos are so anti-Amurrican with their cultural studies and maintenance of their language.

I am saying that the material being taught in these classes is very divisive and hateful, Adolfo Hitler would be very proud. I have seen some of the literature, and it’s downright venomous verbiage. The ban says it will not be taught in public schools, which means you can teach in private education. I am just fine with that, the same way I would be fine with an anti-Nazi ban. Would you be so supportive if a school wanted to teach a pro 3rd Reich class ?

Yet the classes banned were not ‘Mexican-American’ classes, they were Chicano Studies classes. Chicanos are a people who are descended from those gained post Mexican-American war, they are valid of an American ethnic group as the Cherokee or the Pennsylvania Dutch. Your attack was that Latinos at large are somehow carry dual loyalty and are irredentist. Yet the ban was on the study of an AMERICAN ETHNIC GROUP, not of some dual nationality bs.

You’re right, there is no dual loyalty. They love Mexico only, which was shown when they booed the US National Anthem at the Gold Cup here in Los Angeles (USA vs Mexico soccer game). Note, I have on issue with cheering for another team, but when you boo their national anthem when it’s being played, that’s fucking lame. They came to the US for a better life, but couldn’t even show enough respect to let Americans sing their own anthem ? Child please.

How can that seem justifiable to you to systemitcally alienate and invalidate a constituent group within America that has been in Arizona for far longer than the Anglo-Saxon government has? This is akin to saying Cherokees have no right to study their history in Oklahoma.

So how far do we take this shit ? Do we now have Sioux Studies, Cherokee Studies, Iriquoi Studies ? And if we don’t cater to everyone, why does one group get preference over another ? Will EVERYONE who doesn’t suppoer EVERYONE’S studies be deemed racist ? Because that is the horseshit tactic and mentality you use EACH AND EVERY TIME.

I ask that you answer my question from my resposne to you.

[quote]Imagine that California was conquered by China, and they signed a treaty guranteeing your cultural and religious rights to carry on as you did before. Then 120 years from then, they had flooding the state demographically to the point that they constituted a slim majority. They tried to ban English language, disallow American history from public schools, and invalidate/bar you from gov’t in 100 different ways. Further, despite demanding that you ‘Assimilate’ to Han Chinese, they instead constantly refered to you as ‘illegals’ for being Anglo-Saxons. They blamed your community for the Americans from the mid-West that came to Sino-California for work. Then they imposed a system to crack down on this illegal immigraton that required you to carry papers on you at all times, and you would be randomly inspected simply for looking whitish. How would you feel?
[/quote]

That is what comes with winning a war. The winner makes the rules. I can keep it real, unlike you.

And ya man, you were attacking me - remember this?

And do YOU remember when you said this ?..

“If you think might makes right, then don’t get all fussy when Latinos revolt and tear these Rednecks up piece by piece. They will show you what petty is, because remember demographically the future is in our court. If you treat us with disrespect, then soon enough we’ll turn the tables on you. You will reap what you sow.”

Dude, you want to call out and threaten “these rednecks” well I don’t really care to hear that type of shit. Some of us swarthy mother fuckers ain’t ever scared, so please don’t talk like you’re some straight up G, because some of us are willing to speak the fuck up about it. Tear up rednecks eh ? And you say I started this shit ?

You make me out to be the problem when it’s people like me who just want Anglos to do whatever makes Anglos happy, and let Latino people do the same. You are the one taking the side of people who in their megalomaniacal designs want to impose their culture upon us and disempower those of our culture.

As you said, you bred yourself into the electorate, so how can I disempower you ? I have never seen so much catering to any one given culture, it’s downright pathetic. And you STILL don’t show up in improved scores in schools, upward gentrification of communities, yet speak out about it, and the Tan Klan screams racism.

We never asked you to learn Spanish, we don’t ask you to join our culture. Is it unfair to ask that you not do the same to us? We’ve been for longer than you have in the US at large, and most specifically in the Southwest, yet you all act like we are goddamn invaders.
It doesn’t cost you shit to leave us be.

We are not starting this shit with Anglo-America, Anglo-America started this when the conquered the Southwest, and then robbed people of their rightfully titled land with no recourse. They started this when they systemitically imposed petty segregation to further humiliate Latino people in the region in the early 1900s. Now they pour salt on the wound, trying to basically make our culture entirely invalid, impotent and disempowered when they constitute a slim majority in New Mexico.

Seriously, wtf do you all gain by antagonizing Latinos? This is all going to blow back in 25 years, it’s not the history you want the next generation to remember.

Why not just respect us like the German Swiss respect the French Swiss, they are different but they are both still Swiss. It’s the same with the Anglo and the Latino in this great union of ours. We are not going to become Anglos, and we are not going to leave the country. We’re stuck together like it or not. Better to just get along.

Well your increased presence here has not done wonders with our society. Among the least educated cities, California has 4 of them. Fucking awesome. LA County spends $1.5 Billion on illegal alien health care alone, that’s not even all of California, just LA County. Stop whining about your alleged presence having a good effect on society, because I have YET to see the return on our “investment.” Getting along means you do better. Sick and fucking tired of these people not getting with the program. They come here for a better life, only to burden everyone else in that process. Something to consider, Mexico built a wall on their Southern Border, yet only WE are the racists. Priceless.

[/quote]

Come to Los Angeles, and let me show you once great neighborhoods, now resembling Tijuana barrios. This ain’t Missouri. No one is saying you should become Anglo, but staying Mexicano ain’t doing much good for you. When you come here, don’t live like you’re still in Mexico. Think of America as a country club. When you let just anyone in, it goes to total shit. We would like to see you do more than monopolize the landscaping and nanny industries. Rather than bring the poverty and crime with you, come up and do better. Don’t make us dumb down our standards because you can’t cut it.

Alot of people are thinking it, I have the nuts to say it. When the rich leave because they have to pay for the poor, what do you get ? $2.6 Billion in more spending and $2.6 Billion in less revenue. More awesomeness. Fucking yay.[/quote]

Well put, and spot on.

I don’t give a shit who comes to my neighborhood…but don’t come in and fuck shit up.

If the majority of mexicans that come to the U.S. illegally are the lower classes…well that fucking annoys me. Because they suck up the social services, pop out anchor babies and fill up the jails…FUCK THAT.

Why is this ok?

And this does not even address the EPIC hypocrisy of Mexican immigration law that is FAR MORE INVASIVE than the U.S. law that the Latino community is FREAKING THE FUCK OUT OVER.

And the fact that the Spanish took over mexico from the indian indigenous population…but they are not trying to give shit back to those poor fuckers.
[/quote]

Again, awesome post, Max! And awesome addition, Utah!

The problem with Americans, is that we are job-snobs. We refuse to do lower paying, menial jobs. Until we get over ourselves and realize a job is a job (in this economy) and CAN lead to better things, illegal immigrants will continue to be utilized as fruit pickers, janitors, nannies, etc. Americans would rather be unemployed, on welfare, than have a menial job. And until that is solved, nothing will change.

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And nobody wants to talk about how important all that money that immigrants (both legal and illegal) send back to Mexico…it is a HUGE part of that economy.

Which is why the Mexican government gets all hissy when the U.S. cracks down on illegals…they desperately need that money coming home.

I mean, why else would the mexican government join a lawsuit against the state of Arizona’s new immigration law…when that law is FAR LESS INVASIVE than mexico’s OWN IMMIGRATION LAW.

Riddle me that.

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[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And nobody wants to talk about how important all that money that immigrants (both legal and illegal) send back to Mexico…it is a HUGE part of that economy.

Which is why the Mexican government gets all hissy when the U.S. cracks down on illegals…they desperately need that money coming home.

I mean, why else would the mexican government join a lawsuit against the state of Arizona’s new immigration law…when that law is FAR LESS INVASIVE than mexico’s OWN IMMIGRATION LAW.

Riddle me that.[/quote]

I remember working at my first hotel and they did a Social Security number check. Nearly HALF of the housekeeping staff came back with completely different names and some others were deported! I’m not talking about using your middle name instead of your first name or your maiden name instead of your married name, either. I mean Maria Santiago came back as Guadalupe Estevez. I had to relearn everyone’s name after 18 months of calling them their other name. I finally gave up and just reverted back to calling them what I knew them as.

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[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And nobody wants to talk about how important all that money that immigrants (both legal and illegal) send back to Mexico…it is a HUGE part of that economy.

Which is why the Mexican government gets all hissy when the U.S. cracks down on illegals…they desperately need that money coming home.

I mean, why else would the mexican government join a lawsuit against the state of Arizona’s new immigration law…when that law is FAR LESS INVASIVE than mexico’s OWN IMMIGRATION LAW.

Riddle me that.[/quote]

I remember working at my first hotel and they did a Social Security number check. Nearly HALF of the housekeeping staff came back with completely different names and some others were deported! I’m not talking about using your middle name instead of your first name or your maiden name instead of your married name, either. I mean Maria Santiago came back as Guadalupe Estevez. I had to relearn everyone’s name after 18 months of calling them their other name. I finally gave up and just reverted back to calling them what I knew them as. [/quote]

LOL

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National Guard + Border = no more illegals.

CS