[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
I know this doesn’t help with the OPs question, but I feel that chain mail keeps my nice and cool when I’m doing my MMA training.
DB[/quote]
i weared it in my sword training… under the sun on summer it doesn’t help to be cooler…
the medieval cotton shirt i wear under the “usbergo” however avoid heat rush…
also the "usbergo2 is good to avoid some kind of sword rush… However plates are better
I have compression and loose gear versions of both, as well as a couple Reebok shirts … The UA compression seems tighter (in the same size) which jusst feels better while lifting, but that’s just a personal preference. The Nike loose gear seems a little heavier, so i tend to wear them at the track in spring/fall.
I’m a heavy sweater, so both brands do well in moving it away from the skin.
[quote]Shoebolt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
TrainerinDC wrote:
Prof is correct again. UA was designed to improve on the cotton t-shirt. Anyone who has ever worked out in a cotton T-Shirt, and gotten it so soaked in sweat that it was heavy, would immeadiately pick an UA shirt over it, because of its design.
UA is cooler, because it is thinner and allows more air through it, than a cotton T-Shirt. It’s insane to think it would be cooler than bare skin.
In the winter time, I wear a UA cold gear under my shirt, and I don’t need a coat. The cold gear is awesome. I actually went skiing with my ski pants, UA cold gear top, gloves and hat in below freezing temperatures and never got cold.
I wear it on my motorcycle in the winter. It’s like having a big sweater on without any of the bulk.
Damn thats really interesting. Is that the ColdGear stuff or the HeatGear stuff. This stuff should come in handy for winter sprints.[/quote]
Cold gear is for cold. The long sleeve shirts are like two layers of clothing.
You guys need to start wearing button down silky shirts when you train and be done with it.
[quote]jaybvee wrote:
Dollarbill:
Does that come in short sleeve? ROFL… I bet that came from the American Male catalog 
“Roll in sand to remove rust”
[/quote]
Short sleeve? I don’t believe so. But it does come in a tank top or with a hood. One more thing, it’s not so good for grappling.
DB
Wow this has gone on for a while. I actually do know a thing or two about this product and both side of the story are right.
I am a Textile Technologist at a DoD R&D Lab in Mass. My role there is as a project engineer on the load bearing and environmental protection team. So basically my job is to know textiles and designs for backpacks and cold or hot weather clothing for the US Military. Primarily I work on Army programs but that changes regularly.
Ok so compression technology has been around for a looooong time. The only changes have been in the shape and size of the fibers being extruded and the other fibers the yarns are being blended with. For example, a cross section of a polyester fiber that is shaped like a bone and is smaller around (filament fibers are sized in deniers) than one denier and blended with 2-3% lycra gives you ?micro fiber cool max-like material?.
UA originally was designed to replace cotton shirts under football pads. The creator, I forget his name, found a roll of spandex fabric and had it made into t-shirts. These were better under his pads so he went with it. The material didn?t bunch and most athletes like the compression feel, we won?t get into performance enhancement by reduction of muscle vibrations.
The cooling effect that the clothing has is based on the fiber being inherently hydrophobic. The shape of the fiber better manages the water that it comes into contact with. Since the fiber doesn?t like water, and it is being pressed against it (contact with the skin) it will allow the water to pass through to the outside of the fabric (less pressure) where it can evaporate and cause a cooling effect (evaporative cooling).
The smaller the fiber is the more space in the yarn and weave to allow water to pass through. The greater pressure and surface contact is why tight gear wicks better than the loose gear.
Why hot, why cool? Synthetic wicking fibers have made a great name for themselves about the cooling effects of the fabric, but why are some people getting heat rash?
There is more to the cooling than meets the eye. A major factor is the humidity of the surrounding air. If you are wearing UA in Phoenix you will probably be dry or only stay wet a short time. This is because the water being wicked from your skin has some place to go due to the air being dry. If you are with Phil in Thailand then it is another story.
As synthetic materials get saturated the performance degrades significantly. Once there is nowhere for the moisture to be pushed out to, the moisture is then pushed back in. Similar effects can occur if excessive detergent or liquid fabric softener is added during laundering and or the garment is dried on med or high heat. The best care is hand or machine wash cold with mild detergent and air dry.
It is these factors that make you feel hot or can give you a heat rash. In hot humid, cotton would probably be a better option, although the compression style garments may make water ?roll? off of you better.
The last thing I am going to add is that most fiber that is hydrophobic tends to be oleophilic. That means that while they tend to wick moisture they will love anything oil based. This is why you can?t get the pizza grease out of your fav shinny club shirt.
This is also why synthetics can start to stink after awhile. If you have some oily stinky sweat, then the t-shirt will retain that. The worst material for this is polypropylene or olefin, it is usually found in maritime ropes because it is highly hydrophobic and floats. It is used in some outdoor or performance garments. It also melts in dyers.
OK this is long enough so if there is any other textile or garment design questions feel free to ask. I will say in closing that for performance you can?t beat extra fine merino wool garments. Even in the heat.
They will keep you more comfortable in a greater span of temp/humidity ranges. They also don?t melt to your skin and increase the exposure time you have to high temps causing far greater trauma to your body. But Prof. X can further expound on that
[quote]Will Tagye wrote:
a whole lot of interesting stuff
[/quote]
Thanks for that. I guess if we all pooled the collective knowledge around here, we could probably solve world hunger, the war in Iraq and Oprah’s weight problem.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Will Tagye wrote:
a whole lot of interesting stuff
Thanks for that. I guess if we all pooled the collective knowledge around here, we could probably solve world hunger, the war in Iraq and Oprah’s weight problem.[/quote]
If Oprah’s weight problem is all the money in her pockets I will be more than happy to help.
I actually wrote another long post a while ago about how to best find a suit that fits the larger body type but I hit reset instead of post and it disappeared.
wicked nice post will and thanks for the info. i agree with you on the wool. i have a merino undershirt from craft/scandinavia which is just awesome. it was like 70 bucks but man it feels great, is lasting forever, and i’ve worn it for a week straight and it doesn’t smell.
a few questions on the synthetic stuff:
exactly what happens in the dryer…the fiber pulls together and won’t process as much water ?
will the fabric return or is the damage done ?
is it the same effect from too much soap or fabric softener ?
woolite ?
[quote]swivel wrote:
Will Tagye wrote:
wicked nice post will and thanks for the info. i agree with you on the wool. i have a merino undershirt from craft/scandinavia which is just awesome. it was like 70 bucks but man it feels great, is lasting forever, and i’ve worn it for a week straight and it doesn’t smell.
a few questions on the synthetic stuff:
exactly what happens in the dryer…the fiber pulls together and won’t process as much water ?
will the fabric return or is the damage done ?
is it the same effect from too much soap or fabric softener ?
woolite ?
[/quote]
Sorry about the delay, I was on travel for work.
Ok question 1: in the dryer.
The fiber itself will shrink when exposed to high heat. Take any rope and expose it to heat and you will see it shrink prior to melting or igniting. This can distort the shape of the fiber, which aides in the functionality of it as well as decreases the openings called interstices that allow the moisture to be pulled from the body. In the case of a fiber with an “H” like cross section, the two impressions on the sides of the fiber also provide a channel to move moisture via capillary action. What this does is take a small area, say the under arm, that is heavily exposed and move the moisture over a greater area such as down the sleeve and the side of the shirt. This exposes a greater area of moisture to air so that it will evaporate at a higher rate. This action itself can be affected by heat due to the heat misshaping the fiber. These effects are permanent.
So question 2: heat damage is permanent.
Question 3: Too much detergent clogs the holes for moisture to be moved via capillary and or wicking actions.
Fabric softener on the other hand is a lubricant that allows the fibers and yarns to move more freely and feel better to the hand. This coating decreases the ability of the fiber to function; this can be due to the inability to manage moisture or to clogging moisture pathways.
Question 4: Woolite is just a very gentle detergent. It would be fine as long as the appropriate amount is used. In fact the website claims it is the recommended product to use.
I hope this answers your questions. I agree on the price of wool, it is expensive. Fortunately the domestic sources are increasing and that should drop the price a little. If you are in Boston check out Bob Smith?s Wilderness House. I know that they carry some Ibex garments. The garments are very well made and they are located in Vermont. Arc?Teryx also uses some wool and makes great stuff. Another good brand to look for is IceBreaker. I love their boxer brief, they are made with very fine wool tend to keep you just warm enough in the winter and just cool enough in the summer. In fact everyone I know that has worn them in the summer has all stated the elimination of ?swamp crotch?. The legs are a bit slim on them so I had to bust some stitches to get them over my legs and the material is so fine that I worry about durability. They are very comfy though.