Nigeria Kidnappings - What to Do?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

While I think it is true that such a group requires the active or passive support of the locals, I disagree that it is solely their responsibility to deal with them, or that ‘making it uncomfortable’ for terrorists is even an option when militant leaders with such a disparity of arms take root in a particular place. They would need some form of police intervention that their government as it stands can not provide.

Also If I may say, anyone who thinks that the parents of these children aren’t doing enough or should take up stones and sticks and go fight entrenched AK-47 wielding thugs is quite callous in their ideology. The only thing they could hope to accomplish would be rallying more international sympathy and hastags, even from the most hard-ass conservative, and further prompt foreign intervention.

That being said is it worth another vietnam? Perhaps in light of the enormous cost such an intervention would require and the grossly imbalanced attrition guerilla warfare entails, one might logically and with heavy heart conclude it may not be in our best interest to intervene. At least let it be said that such a decision was reached based on cold economics or casualty projections rather than by fucking principle.

These people are sending their daughters to school, to better their lives in defiance of the muslim presence most likely aware of the risks in clear demonstration of opposition to their oppressors. I don’t care if it happens every single day in that part of the world, no one deserves to have their children or themselves sold off to some sick fuck because his religion says thats ok. Part of what makes these terrorist groups so repugnant is their ability to abandon empathy, and basic human compassion in order to commit atrocities for the sake of some ideal. I say that anyone who can genuinely be disinterested or unsympathetic toward human pain and suffering on the grounds of principle has within them the same capacity for cruelty only the good fortune of not being found or born into a situation that exploits it.

I believe Abubakar Muhammad’s days are numbered. I think when you become an internationally recognized terrorist it puts a target on your head. Although killing him probably won’t improve the situation much, taking him out provides the political gains and bragging rights that an intervention would with less money spent and blood shed. Of course the situation was of greater scale and more personal, the last terrorist I heard about on our news without looking was Bin Laden, and they made sure to let us know they got his ass.

82

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
While I think it is true that such a group requires the active or passive support of the locals, I disagree that it is solely their responsibility to deal with them, or that ‘making it uncomfortable’ for terrorists is even an option when militant leaders with such a disparity of arms take root in a particular place. They would need some form of police intervention that their government as it stands can not provide.

Also If I may say, anyone who thinks that the parents of these children aren’t doing enough or should take up stones and sticks and go fight entrenched AK-47 wielding thugs is quite callous in their ideology. The only thing they could hope to accomplish would be rallying more international sympathy and hastags, even from the most hard-ass conservative, and further prompt foreign intervention.

That being said is it worth another vietnam? Perhaps in light of the enormous cost such an intervention would require and the grossly imbalanced attrition guerilla warfare entails, one might logically and with heavy heart conclude it may not be in our best interest to intervene. At least let it be said that such a decision was reached based on cold economics or casualty projections rather than by fucking principle.

These people are sending their daughters to school, to better their lives in defiance of the muslim presence most likely aware of the risks in clear demonstration of opposition to their oppressors. I don’t care if it happens every single day in that part of the world, no one deserves to have their children or themselves sold off to some sick fuck because his religion says thats ok. Part of what makes these terrorist groups so repugnant is their ability to abandon empathy, and basic human compassion in order to commit atrocities for the sake of some ideal. I say that anyone who can genuinely be disinterested or unsympathetic toward human pain and suffering on the grounds of principle has within them the same capacity for cruelty only the good fortune of not being found or born into a situation that exploits it.

I believe Abubakar Muhammad’s days are numbered. I think when you become an internationally recognized terrorist it puts a target on your head. Although killing him probably won’t improve the situation much, taking him out provides the political gains and bragging rights that an intervention would with less money spent and blood shed. Of course the situation was of greater scale and more personal, the last terrorist I heard about on our news without looking was Bin Laden, and they made sure to let us know they got his ass.

[/quote]
Yes you are right when you say there’s a need for government intervention,which could have been better. However it has been difficult for the army to be effective,because intelligence gathering was poor and misinformation was rife, plus there have been moles in the security forces who have provided information for the enemy. That being said it is important to note that boko haram member for the most part live and hide among the people, it is up to them to expose them. For example if it were in the south,where people are more educated and liberated, suspicious gathering are reported to the appropriate authority, there are a lot of neighborhood watches,and people are more security conscious and more organized. There’s no way you’re carting away 10 girls from a school in the day without you being apprehended. As to what the US state should do concerning boko haram is to make up their minds and designate the group a terrorist group in name and principle,and stop saying they were fighting inequality or reacting to the central government. That being said I don’t think there’s a need for US soldiers to come over here, what can be done is to provide technical support, help the military in counter insurgent and terrorism training(it is a new ball game for us)and help in information gathering, cause this boko haram are a global menace(just. The nigerian branch of al queda)

83

Iraq is trying to pass a law to allow men to marry girls at the age of 9

84

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I propose a solution:

Letters of Marque and Reprisal.

Yes, mercenaries.

No taxpayer money. No government involvement aka USA - World Police. No Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force sacrificing their lives for cultures that really don’t give a shit.

Turn private industry loose.

It could happen.[/quote]

I am not sure whether to believe that to be a serious response or not. Just curious who would pay for it ? We all know Private Industry is for profit and even if a private contractor of that sort were to do that as non grata and unpaid would change it’s status to some other entity

85

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I propose a solution:

Letters of Marque and Reprisal.

Yes, mercenaries.

No taxpayer money. No government involvement aka USA - World Police. No Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force sacrificing their lives for cultures that really don’t give a shit.

Turn private industry loose.

It could happen.[/quote]

I assume a Blackwater type company?

That could work, and the Nigerians could pay for it.

problem solved.

86

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I propose a solution:

Letters of Marque and Reprisal.

Yes, mercenaries.

No taxpayer money. No government involvement aka USA - World Police. No Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force sacrificing their lives for cultures that really don’t give a shit.

Turn private industry loose.

It could happen.[/quote]

You know, it’s funny you mention this. I was thinking the exact same thing earlier today and was amazed that no one had thought of it sooner. And then I see that you beat me to it.

Yeah, send those fuckers in. It’s the epitome of the free market at work. I don’t know if it’ll happen, but I could see it working out if it does. I could ALSO see it turning into a complete shitshow, but at least it won’t escalate the way it would if Mean Mother Green and Her Killing Machine went in there guns ablazin’.

87

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I propose a solution:

Letters of Marque and Reprisal.

Yes, mercenaries.

No taxpayer money. No government involvement aka USA - World Police. No Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force sacrificing their lives for cultures that really don’t give a shit.

Turn private industry loose.

It could happen.[/quote]

I am not sure whether to believe that to be a serious response or not. Just curious who would pay for it ? We all know Private Industry is for profit and even if a private contractor of that sort were to do that as non grata and unpaid would change it’s status to some other entity
[/quote]

Whaddya mean who would pay for it? It’s the free fucking market! If there is a demand for this service, the demand will be met. Who demands this service? Shit, we could send a few hundred million to Nigeria and although it would cost the taxpayers, that would still be a drop in the bucket compared to an actual, official military intervention. Not to mention the American lives that would be saved. They could use the cash to pay for the service.

Not quite the free market, but Nigeria still must have a lot of cash somewhere around there, what with all that oil out there. The cash will surface if there is a service available for it to be spent on. So where the fuck is the service? Shit, it could turn into something like the Spanish Civil War!

91

About US involvement in the issue, I think its up to the government to decide how strategic nigeria is in her foreign policy. I would think Nigeria is important for a couple of reason
1.Nigeria is the largest economy in africa, with a large and expanding population base and a healthy gdp growth rate despite all her challenges(poor electricity,insecurity,corruption), since the government has privatised the electricity sub sector recently, there’s an expectation of serious improvement in electricity consumption which means the high cost of generating power will reduce,increasing the profit of businesses. This is important because nigeria is a place with a lot of business opportunity for foreign investors,and it will only get better.
2. Nigeria is a major recipient of FDI, and which a lot of it comes from the US,so I would think the US govt would be concerned about protecting the investment of its citizens
3.There are US expatriate doing business in Nigeria, and I know how the US values it citizens.
4.It is a chance to show world leadership,increase their influence with the nigerian govt amidst growing nigerian-russian,nigerian-chinese relations( it seems every few months,those guys are investing billions in nigeria).
5. Well we would almost always vote and stand with the US and the UK position in the UN,plus we have a friendly relationship with US
6.Boko haram are a terrorist group who are linked to AQ,and in one of their videos threatened obama, yes they may be small now,but there’s no point letting them grow anymore powerful than this.
Now don’t put too much importance in what I’ve said,I’m just a nigerian seeing the good in my country, so it might be a biased opinion, but to the best of my knowledge,I think nigeria is pretty important on the african scene and the US should take note.

92

[quote]stevekweli wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]stevekweli wrote:
I am nigerian,and I live in lagos southwest of nigeria,so I have an understanding of what’s going on. Boko haram are a terrorist group with links to AQ,I think because of the set up of my country(large muslim population),people have been unable to say the truth. The insurgent are restricted to the north well because the northerner allow them. I believe insurgency can only work if the locals allow it,and because of religious,socio economic factors the north is a nice breeding ground for that sort of thing(many northerner are afraid to fight against something if it carries the emblem of islam,and a sizable amount support it secretly). If america comes to help,it would be good PR for obama’s government,but the USA hasn’t always designated boko haram a terrorist group,so that would hypocrisy plus coming to a place with the wrong mindset,and ideas of the enemy hampers effectiveness[/quote]

Are you there now? I appreciate your perspective since you clearly are closer to the situation than we are. What’s the mind set? What are the people hoping for?[/quote]
Yes I am in nigeria at the moment. Nigerian over the decades have developed a high level of mistrust and disdain for the ruling elite. For a lot of people,it is another opportunity to criticize the government(and truthfully the government has been a failure in almost everything),opposition political parties are also taking advantage of the situation to weaken the influence of ruling party. Also local media houses are very careful how they report the news in order to prevent the eruption of sectarian and religious violence(doing as much to edit anything that involves islam out of it). I’m not too sure if people in nigeria and by extension the rest of the world care much about the girl’s welfare, for some it is a way of doing something,while not doing anything(twitter hastag) maybe it helps them feel better about themselves, for some it a political advantage to weaken the govt and prevent jonathan from contesting in 2015. For majority of nigerians,we are not very hopeful that those would be found. The odds are just against them(large and porous borders,poor intelligence, the socio-political set up of northern nigeria). Now if you ask me what can be done to curb the menace of boko haram. I’ll tell you not very much in terms of military intervention would solve the problem, northern nigerian(majorly hausas) must make the region uncomfortable for boko haram,reject the imposition of sharia law and become secular muslims. I believe that insurgency can only work when the locals support it actively or passively,that is probably the reason it hasn’t spread to the western/southern/eastern part of nigeria(predominantly Christians and much more educated than the northerners). Sorry that my post is long and disjointed,I hope you can understand what I’m saying [/quote]

To me it’s a last straw in a long, long list of crimes against humanity in that region. The problem is we live in a bubble here, our moral radar is completely fucked up. We’re more concerned about a gay football player than the litany of rapes, murders, gang rapes, child rapes, child soldiers, kidnappings, burning people alive, disfigurements, extermination of entire groups of people, etc. The list goes on and on. From the Congo to Sierra Lion, to Rwanda to Zimbabwe. These little skirmishes with these militias have tallied up millions of dead, millions. And I am sure you are not unaware being there, so I don’t have to tell you that what continues to go on in Central Africa, is a never ending atrocity against mankind and it’s been all but ignored, which in itself is a tragedy.

I reckon some very dim-witted folks automatically assumed I meant war and putting boots on the ground. I can’t fix stupid, so I won’t bother to address the nonsense.

I don’t have the answers, but I know these tragedies have for to long gone unnoticed and I think awareness is a key in starting the process of ending these nonsensical tragedies. Putting pressure on the region and putting pressure on the governments there to get off their asses and stop taking paydays to ignore shit would be a good start.
I know for instance that Ethiopia has long been begging for financial and intelligence support for fighting al qaeda in Somalia, I cannot for the life of me figure out why we haven’t answered the bell. They are doing the fighting for us. They are taking the hits, they just need a little advantage to be more successful. They have asked for it and have been ignored.

These kidnappings only highlight the larger problem in that region. Boko haram is just one of many militias there. I don’t think it’s a hopeless situation though. I think if the countries like Cameroon, Niger, Congo etc. Get a coalition together, if the western powers assist them with funds, intelligence and arms and they put their focus on eradicating these militias, progress can be made. I don’t think it would be to hard to figure out who and how Boko haram gets their means to operate, it wouldn’t be hard to take out their support systems.

The big problem is nobody has given a shit for to long. This isn’t going away, it’s only going to get worse. If people don’t start giving a shit, this will eventually get to big to ignore. It’s been going on for years and has only gotten bigger and bolder. Right now it’s 279 school girls, what’s next? 500, 1000, 10,000?
I don’t have the answers for those girls, but I know that it’s time for people to stop ignoring Africa. Giving a shit goes a long way towards solving problems. The Africa problem is not going away and if we don’t want boots on the ground, we better start giving a shit what happens there.

93

[quote]stevekweli wrote:
About US involvement in the issue, I think its up to the government to decide how strategic nigeria is in her foreign policy. I would think Nigeria is important for a couple of reason
1.Nigeria is the largest economy in africa, with a large and expanding population base and a healthy gdp growth rate despite all her challenges(poor electricity,insecurity,corruption), since the government has privatised the electricity sub sector recently, there’s an expectation of serious improvement in electricity consumption which means the high cost of generating power will reduce,increasing the profit of businesses. This is important because nigeria is a place with a lot of business opportunity for foreign investors,and it will only get better.
2. Nigeria is a major recipient of FDI, and which a lot of it comes from the US,so I would think the US govt would be concerned about protecting the investment of its citizens
3.There are US expatriate doing business in Nigeria, and I know how the US values it citizens.
4.It is a chance to show world leadership,increase their influence with the nigerian govt amidst growing nigerian-russian,nigerian-chinese relations( it seems every few months,those guys are investing billions in nigeria).
5. Well we would almost always vote and stand with the US and the UK position in the UN,plus we have a friendly relationship with US
6.Boko haram are a terrorist group who are linked to AQ,and in one of their videos threatened obama, yes they may be small now,but there’s no point letting them grow anymore powerful than this.
Now don’t put too much importance in what I’ve said,I’m just a nigerian seeing the good in my country, so it might be a biased opinion, but to the best of my knowledge,I think nigeria is pretty important on the african scene and the US should take note.[/quote]

Yeah, al qaeda was small and ridiculous too at one point. If we’re thinking natural resources alone Nigeria is a good investment, not to mention good strategic positioning in the region. Diamonds, gold and oil are a good start.
I don’t want U.S. involvement in terms of military action (maybe a couple of drones). But I am not against military support, arms and funding. Setting up trade and securing resources between the two nations can be mutually beneficial and lucrative.

94

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I propose a solution:

Letters of Marque and Reprisal.

Yes, mercenaries.

No taxpayer money. No government involvement aka USA - World Police. No Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force sacrificing their lives for cultures that really don’t give a shit.

Turn private industry loose.

It could happen.[/quote]

I am not sure whether to believe that to be a serious response or not. Just curious who would pay for it ? We all know Private Industry is for profit and even if a private contractor of that sort were to do that as non grata and unpaid would change it’s status to some other entity
[/quote]

Whaddya mean who would pay for it? It’s the free fucking market! If there is a demand for this service, the demand will be met. Who demands this service? Shit, we could send a few hundred million to Nigeria and although it would cost the taxpayers, that would still be a drop in the bucket compared to an actual, official military intervention. Not to mention the American lives that would be saved. They could use the cash to pay for the service.

Not quite the free market, but Nigeria still must have a lot of cash somewhere around there, what with all that oil out there. The cash will surface if there is a service available for it to be spent on. So where the fuck is the service? Shit, it could turn into something like the Spanish Civil War![/quote]

Agreed.

If it’s so damn important that folks in the US are demanding millions of taxpayer dollars be spent on these type rescue missions then set up a We Are the World fund and let the money flow in. If there’s enough dough involved you can get someone to do anything. ANYTHING.

I guarantee you the expertise and wherewithal to accomplish this mission outside of government militaries does indeed exist.
[/quote]

Should make a kickstarter campaign that can go towards financing mercenaries.
Might not attract all the right people, but I don’t think anyone is going to complain about a couple hundred (thousand? more?) terrorists wigs being split.

95

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Nigeria vigilantes kill Islamic militants

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/05/14/some-in-northeast-nigeria-form-vigilante-groups-kill-suspects-to-stem-attacks/[/quote]

Maybe someone from the “shadows” has already stepped in to help.

96

[quote]pat wrote:

The big problem is nobody has given a shit for to long. This isn’t going away, it’s only going to get worse. If people don’t start giving a shit, this will eventually get to big to ignore. It’s been going on for years and has only gotten bigger and bolder. Right now it’s 279 school girls, what’s next? 500, 1000, 10,000?

[/quote]

You are forgetting about the millions of slaves for hundreds of years and I’m the calloused asshole?

The region has centuries of history in the human slave trade. Everybody is calling to change that now?

And-

No you can’t, because

you don’t know how intelligence is gathered and developed.

We don’t just air drop them crates of intelligence or e-mail them intelligence. We put boots on the ground. The best boots our military has to offer. They go into very unfriendly places to observe, interview, interrogate and sometimes directly engage an enemy.

As was pointed out to me earlier in the thread- It’s very complicated.

97

It’s ridiculous to suddenly want to do something about this after ignoring all the other shit that’s been going on in Africa over the years. And all the hashtag warriors have forgotten about Kony. The guy’s still on the loose killing, looting, raping and kidnapping. How quickly we forget.

98

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I propose a solution:

Letters of Marque and Reprisal.

Yes, mercenaries.

No taxpayer money. No government involvement aka USA - World Police. No Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force sacrificing their lives for cultures that really don’t give a shit.

Turn private industry loose.

It could happen.[/quote]

I like it.

Kinda like The Expendables.

Just but a $50 million bounty on the leaders severed heads and the return of the girls. See what happens.

They can even make an “Expendables” accounts through the UN or the World Bank and all the normal/western/decent nations can make contributions for mercenary activity.

99

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I propose a solution:

Letters of Marque and Reprisal.

Yes, mercenaries.

No taxpayer money. No government involvement aka USA - World Police. No Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force sacrificing their lives for cultures that really don’t give a shit.

Turn private industry loose.

It could happen.[/quote]

I like it.

Kinda like The Expendables.

Just but a $50 million bounty on the leaders severed heads and the return of the girls. See what happens.

They can even make an “Expendables” accounts through the UN or the World Bank and all the normal/western/decent nations can make contributions for mercenary activity.[/quote]

  • 5 Lama internet shekels.
100

I would suggest that mercenaries may not have the intelligence capabilities, logistical infrastructure, the armaments or the air support of a nation state…just saying.