Nigeria Kidnappings - What to Do?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Really though- I just rocked my son to sleep. If someone tried to come in and take him by force there would be at least one dead body here by the time it was all said and done. If not theirs, then mine.

But 200+, and there aren’t droves of people with any tool or weapon they can muster scouting that area and de-limbing anybody involved?

That is ridiculous. That article should drop the subtext of human chattel and ineffectual government and start looking at these peoples complicity by neglecting to act on their own behalf. [/quote]

There are a lot of dead bodies in that region of Africa and lots of grieving parents.

It sounds so simply when you put it like you did but the reality is not that simple. Most of those people aren’t armed, they don’t have the financial means to arm themselves. And even if they are armed there is only so much they can do against an overwhelming force. Nigerian forces are spread thin. Part of that is because they providing peacekeeping (if you can call it that) throughout that region and part of is it simple economics.

But reality is never as simple as we make it sound.

james
[/quote]
I agree. It’s one thing if the people could actually do something about it, but they cannot. They don’t have the means, the resources, they are totally helpless. When you are completely helpless and then it’s decided nobody will help you that’s another atrocity.
Let somebody take our children and let us be told that nobody is going to help you, they are gone and there is nothing you can do about it. And now your child is going to be sold and have who knows what done to them, by who knows who for the rest of their lives and you will never see them again.
Sure, we’d all like to think we’d strap on our Rambo vests and go get them, but that’s not reality. If nobody helps these people, their kids are lost forever. Nigeria is clearly useless, so what? Do we just tell them “too bad”, the world is a mean place and they have to deal with it? It’s easy to say when it’s not your kid.[/quote]

No dude. Help starts with self. If they won’t ball up a fist, sharpen a stick, or do what ever, why the hell should we send in our best, some of whom absolutely will die?

And Atypical, as far as the complexity goes- Dazzle me. I’m waiting for it.

I’d love to hear one good reason why these people can’t defend their own blood with their own lives?

[/quote]

I am guessing you don’t know anything about the story and what happened. If you know the story, it’s all pretty self explanatory. I am sure they’d be more than happy to ball up a fist, or chuck a spear if they could find them.[/quote]

You’re right. I have no idea what I’m talking about.

[quote]stevekweli wrote:
I am nigerian,and I live in lagos southwest of nigeria,so I have an understanding of what’s going on. Boko haram are a terrorist group with links to AQ,I think because of the set up of my country(large muslim population),people have been unable to say the truth. The insurgent are restricted to the north well because the northerner allow them. I believe insurgency can only work if the locals allow it,and because of religious,socio economic factors the north is a nice breeding ground for that sort of thing(many northerner are afraid to fight against something if it carries the emblem of islam,and a sizable amount support it secretly). If america comes to help,it would be good PR for obama’s government,but the USA hasn’t always designated boko haram a terrorist group,so that would hypocrisy plus coming to a place with the wrong mindset,and ideas of the enemy hampers effectiveness[/quote]

Gotta love it when you so called conservatives preach smaller gov. but when shit gets real it’s all “Our gov. must do something!(as long as it’s to someone else)”.

Isn’t this what you want for the good ole’ US of A? I’d love to see what would happen if you got what you wanted. Create a hands off gov and see what your neighbors are really like. You’d be yelping from the rooftops for help from that same entity which you want to reduce to the point of ineffectual.

It’s just liberalism with a different wish list from the majority of you.
[/quote]

Your posts in this thread are quite refreshing. I wholeheartedly agree with you and I wish there were more who pointed out this blatant hypocrisy that proliferates in this forum.

It’s infuriating to see people come on here and continually rant about entitlement programs and how they don’t work because you’re just giving people the fish rather than teaching them how to fish for themselves…but let’s go into fucking Nigeria with Mean Mother Green and Her Killing Machine and give the Nigerians all the fish they need! And if you don’t want to do this, then you’re a fucking cold-hearted, Godless sonofabitch!

Helping Americans is a political issue, but this, this isn’t political at all.

The ignorance and hypocrisy amazes me. Pat would rather help Nigerians than his fellow Americans, and yet, in every other thread that deals with political issues I’m supposed to accept that Pat’s “ideology” (also known as his finger in the wind) is all motivated by a desire to help improve the state of the country. Giving fish to Nigerians will undoubtedly help them, but if you want to do the same here you’re a fucking socialist.

62

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
All bullshit is aside. This isn’t rambo vest bullshit ramblings. It’s calling out the ideological assclownery that has been on parade here for a long fucking time.

You and a bunch of others are all about “You’ll get my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands” and all of the bumper sticker courage you can muster, but when it comes right down to it the only thing powering your sails is your own hot air.

You have a proud collection of fire arms and deep desire to help- Go buy a plain ticket and get it on.

oh, wait- The desire isn’t that deep, is it? As easy as he is to hate at least someone like John Walker Lindh has the testicular fortitude to go balls deep into what he believes in.
[/quote]

^Great post
[/quote]

Agreed!

63

[quote]pat wrote:

Cause I could actually board an international flight with guns and go find a bunch of well organized terrorists in a foreign country myself, kill them all and rescue the girls. That’s realistic.
So gun owning conservatives should go and kill all the terrorists in the world with our guns because we own guns and believe that terrorists need to be dealt with harshly?
That makes a lot of sense.

[/quote]

Whats up with the pessimism? See, when you don’t want to do something all anybody sees are obstacles, but when you want to do it the possibilities are endless.

Lets turn that frown upside down, because I want to help you help them. You don’t go by plane. You charter a bunk on a freight vessel. Travel light- You’re going to need way more ammo than guns, so get something in 7.62x39 with decent range. You can make connections and get what you need when you get there. Freakin Norinco should have a damn mega mall somewhere in that region like “Warlords R Us”. You don’t have enough people to lay down heavy fire so this is going to be a one shot one kill thing unless you get into close quarters. Thats when you’re going to need a side arm of some type and a sharp knife Don’t get a bunch of exotic tacticool shit with fucking flashlights everywhere that you can’t find ammo for. Simple tools in the hands of a skilled craftsman bring great results.

Thats all I got, but I’m sure others will have some bits and pieces for you. Come on, PWI, lets get Pat to Nigeria where he can help the children and evacuate some slave tradin’ skulls!

(you might want some jungle hooch to get some sleep at night after that last part. That fucks people up.)

64

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Cause I could actually board an international flight with guns and go find a bunch of well organized terrorists in a foreign country myself, kill them all and rescue the girls. That’s realistic.
So gun owning conservatives should go and kill all the terrorists in the world with our guns because we own guns and believe that terrorists need to be dealt with harshly?
That makes a lot of sense.

[/quote]

Whats up with the pessimism? See, when you don’t want to do something all anybody sees are obstacles, but when you want to do it the possibilities are endless.

Lets turn that frown upside down, because I want to help you help them. You don’t go by plane. You charter a bunk on a freight vessel. Travel light- You’re going to need way more ammo than guns, so get something in 7.62x39 with decent range. You can make connections and get what you need when you get there. Freakin Norinco should have a damn mega mall somewhere in that region like “Warlords R Us”. You don’t have enough people to lay down heavy fire so this is going to be a one shot one kill thing unless you get into close quarters. Thats when you’re going to need a side arm of some type and a sharp knife Don’t get a bunch of exotic tacticool shit with fucking flashlights everywhere that you can’t find ammo for. Simple tools in the hands of a skilled craftsman bring great results.

Thats all I got, but I’m sure others will have some bits and pieces for you. Come on, PWI, lets get Pat to Nigeria where he can help the children and evacuate some slave tradin’ skulls!

(you might want some jungle hooch to get some sleep at night after that last part. That fucks people up.)

[/quote]

We could crowdsource some cash for him, too! Shit, I will personally make a $100 donation to Pat. I think this is a good cause Pat is fighting for and since he thinks we should be doing something, I can’t wait to help him be one of the ones “doing something” over there.

65

Coop,

People are not monolithic in voting, most people agreed that we should have taken action against those responsible for the 9/11 attacks, including tree-hugging, granola-eating, shower-avoiding children of Woodstock.

Most people believed we should not have gotten involved in Syria, despite Obama’s red line. If I recall, I think most polls had at least 80% against us doing anything against them, when have you ever seen an 80% consensus on anything.

I think it’s a stretch to compare someone complaining about the minimum wage to someone being overwhelmed by an armed military presence trying to sell your daughter.

But I see your point and it’s still a good one.

66

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Coop,

People are not monolithic in voting, most people agreed that we should have taken action against those responsible for the 9/11 attacks, including tree-hugging, granola-eating, shower-avoiding children of Woodstock.

Most people believed we should not have gotten involved in Syria, despite Obama’s red line. If I recall, I think most polls had at least 80% against us doing anything against them, when have you ever seen an 80% consensus on anything.

I think it’s a stretch to compare someone complaining about the minimum wage to someone being overwhelmed by an armed military presence trying to sell your daughter.

But I see your point and it’s still a good one. [/quote]

The last time I saw a public in 80% agreement on something, it was 80% agreement that we shouldn’t be fucking around in Iraq. Look how that worked out for everyone. It’s sounds crazy when taken at face value, but the country was legitimately better off with Saddam Hussein in power.

9/11 is irrelevant here, because it was primarily Americans who were sacrificing their lives while going after those who directly attacked us. That isn’t the case in Nigeria.

I’m not comparing minimum wage complaints to this at all. I’m simply wondering why it is that Pat feels the gov’t of this country has an overwhelming responsibility to use taxpayer money to help 200 girls in Nigeria, when he clearly doesn’t apply that same logic to his fellow citizens? He rants and raves about the private sector being far better equipped to handle shit, but not when it means he, part of the private sector, might have to get off his ass and do something.

He claims to be a patriotic American who loves his country, but his own words clearly reveal a hatred of America. Pat hates America and would rather forcibly take my tax dollars to help people in Nigeria than here in the U.S., plain and simple.

67

DB and Skyzyk’s posts have been outstanding.

68

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Put yourself in the place of those parents brothers and sisters. Put yourself in the position of the mother being forced to watch their child be gang raped. Put yourself in the position of having to watch your child burned alive, being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Give a shit about politics? [/quote]

I already stated- Nobody would ever come into my house and kidnap my son without someone dying in the process. Either me or them. It’s not going to happen any other way. I’d rather go out knowing I did what ever was humanly possible than live knowing I should have done something.

Cause I could actually board an international flight with guns and go find a bunch of well organized terrorists in a foreign country myself, kill them all and rescue the girls. That’s realistic.
So gun owning conservatives should go and kill all the terrorists in the world with our guns because we own guns and believe that terrorists need to be dealt with harshly?
That makes a lot of sense.

So I guess what you are saying is these people and those girls should go fuck themselves, they deserve what they got.[/quote]

No. What he’s saying is that if you see a problem, get off your fucking ass and participate in the solution process instead of standing on your soapbox calling for actions that you yourself never will and never have taken. And don’t sit there and tell me that donating some money through iPhone or retweeting the latest hashtag is making a difference. It isn’t.

How long did you spend in the military, Pat? What about the Peace Corps? What about the myriad NGO’s out there that go to Africa every year? It seems to me that you have no problem calling for military interventions of some sort to help end the injustices that abound. If you really want to help in Africa, drop everything and join an NGO. Why don’t you join the Peace Corps and help educate children in Africa?

Sure, that would require a huge change/sacrifice for you to make. Fuck it, do it anyways! After all, that’s exactly what you’re calling on others to do.[/quote]

Yeah pat. Fly to Nigeria then go wandering off into the bush looking for Boko Harem. You know it makes sense.

69

There is a difference between controversial and despicable, and girls being sold by the use of guns is a no brainer.

70

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I think that Africa would be a great place to get into another war. I’m getting tired of that “desert camouflage” uniform anyway - that was SOOO last season.

Here’s a thought (probably a politically incorrect thought): If we, the United States “world police”, have to go into a country to “save” it, then why don’t we charge them for the privilege? Seriously, we went into Kuwait, saved their ass, spent billions of OUR treasure, but then let them keep their oil? Same with Iraq. What. The. Fuck? If they are now enjoying the benefits of freedom and democracy (even if they cant get it right), then why shouldn’t that come with a cost? It sure as fuck cost US!

Africa has metric shit tons of natural resources. Why aren’t we "quid pro quo"ing that to our advantage? We will kill your war lords and set you up with some better farming equipment, provide peace, vaccinations and education, etc… and you will give us XYZ quantity of natural resources.

This isn’t a new phenomenon or anything. Britain just settled it’s war debt from WWII back in 2006. So why don’t we make these other countries pay? They have plenty of natural resources. Hell, in lieu of direct payments, we could just agree to give US companies exclusive rights to the oil/minerals/whatever.

That would be win:win. Africa would be a far more peaceful place, the US would have several international income streams, it would allow us to forward deploy our military with “justification” to keep China on it’s heels and it would PAY DOWN OUR DEBT. And it would keep Muslim extremists down and perhaps keep 200+ innocent girls from being kidnapped and sold into slavery.

What do you guys think? [/quote]

That is the model Rome followed where they equites class built, well, corporations, trusts, something like that, and they were hell bent on getting those resources out of other peoples countries.

That practically ensured constant warfare.

71

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is a difference between controversial and despicable, and girls being sold by the use of guns is a no brainer. [/quote]

I agree to some extent, but one thing that hasn’t yet been exposed or examined is the level of complicity of the people in that region. They’re not just tolerant of, but in some cases supportive of the Boko Haram in the region, so who’s to say that there isn’t some level of participation of these people selling their own into slavery?

This could be a really common occurrance and we’re just hearing about the sour grapes.

72

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is a difference between controversial and despicable, and girls being sold by the use of guns is a no brainer. [/quote]

I agree to some extent, but one thing that hasn’t yet been exposed or examined is the level of complicity of the people in that region. They’re not just tolerant of, but in some cases supportive of the Boko Haram in the region, so who’s to say that there isn’t some level of participation of these people selling their own into slavery?

This could be a really common occurrance and we’re just hearing about the sour grapes.
[/quote]

Agreed. It’s sort of like walking into someone else’s home because they have flies all over the place. And the flies are there because there is a huge, steaming pile of shit in the middle of the living room. But rather than get rid of the shit, you don’t even go into the living room. You just stay in the entryway and swat every fly that comes your way.

Finding these girls and swatting the piece-of-shit flies that stole them doesn’t remove the huge pile of shit from the other room.

Besides, we’re talking about a region with one of the highest rates of forced clitoris removal in the world, along with legalized rape within marriage. Saving them may be no different than getting a heroin addict off of smack, only to send him to a methodone clinic where he promptly becomes hooked on that shit instead.

73

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]stevekweli wrote:
I am nigerian,and I live in lagos southwest of nigeria,so I have an understanding of what’s going on. Boko haram are a terrorist group with links to AQ,I think because of the set up of my country(large muslim population),people have been unable to say the truth. The insurgent are restricted to the north well because the northerner allow them. I believe insurgency can only work if the locals allow it,and because of religious,socio economic factors the north is a nice breeding ground for that sort of thing(many northerner are afraid to fight against something if it carries the emblem of islam,and a sizable amount support it secretly). If america comes to help,it would be good PR for obama’s government,but the USA hasn’t always designated boko haram a terrorist group,so that would hypocrisy plus coming to a place with the wrong mindset,and ideas of the enemy hampers effectiveness[/quote]

Are you there now? I appreciate your perspective since you clearly are closer to the situation than we are. What’s the mind set? What are the people hoping for?[/quote]
Yes I am in nigeria at the moment. Nigerian over the decades have developed a high level of mistrust and disdain for the ruling elite. For a lot of people,it is another opportunity to criticize the government(and truthfully the government has been a failure in almost everything),opposition political parties are also taking advantage of the situation to weaken the influence of ruling party. Also local media houses are very careful how they report the news in order to prevent the eruption of sectarian and religious violence(doing as much to edit anything that involves islam out of it). I’m not too sure if people in nigeria and by extension the rest of the world care much about the girl’s welfare, for some it is a way of doing something,while not doing anything(twitter hastag) maybe it helps them feel better about themselves, for some it a political advantage to weaken the govt and prevent jonathan from contesting in 2015. For majority of nigerians,we are not very hopeful that those would be found. The odds are just against them(large and porous borders,poor intelligence, the socio-political set up of northern nigeria). Now if you ask me what can be done to curb the menace of boko haram. I’ll tell you not very much in terms of military intervention would solve the problem, northern nigerian(majorly hausas) must make the region uncomfortable for boko haram,reject the imposition of sharia law and become secular muslims. I believe that insurgency can only work when the locals support it actively or passively,that is probably the reason it hasn’t spread to the western/southern/eastern part of nigeria(predominantly Christians and much more educated than the northerners). Sorry that my post is long and disjointed,I hope you can understand what I’m saying

74

[quote]stevekweli wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]stevekweli wrote:
I am nigerian,and I live in lagos southwest of nigeria,so I have an understanding of what’s going on. Boko haram are a terrorist group with links to AQ,I think because of the set up of my country(large muslim population),people have been unable to say the truth. The insurgent are restricted to the north well because the northerner allow them. I believe insurgency can only work if the locals allow it,and because of religious,socio economic factors the north is a nice breeding ground for that sort of thing(many northerner are afraid to fight against something if it carries the emblem of islam,and a sizable amount support it secretly). If america comes to help,it would be good PR for obama’s government,but the USA hasn’t always designated boko haram a terrorist group,so that would hypocrisy plus coming to a place with the wrong mindset,and ideas of the enemy hampers effectiveness[/quote]

Are you there now? I appreciate your perspective since you clearly are closer to the situation than we are. What’s the mind set? What are the people hoping for?[/quote]
Yes I am in nigeria at the moment. Nigerian over the decades have developed a high level of mistrust and disdain for the ruling elite. For a lot of people,it is another opportunity to criticize the government(and truthfully the government has been a failure in almost everything),opposition political parties are also taking advantage of the situation to weaken the influence of ruling party. Also local media houses are very careful how they report the news in order to prevent the eruption of sectarian and religious violence(doing as much to edit anything that involves islam out of it). I’m not too sure if people in nigeria and by extension the rest of the world care much about the girl’s welfare, for some it is a way of doing something,while not doing anything(twitter hastag) maybe it helps them feel better about themselves, for some it a political advantage to weaken the govt and prevent jonathan from contesting in 2015. For majority of nigerians,we are not very hopeful that those would be found. The odds are just against them(large and porous borders,poor intelligence, the socio-political set up of northern nigeria). Now if you ask me what can be done to curb the menace of boko haram. I’ll tell you not very much in terms of military intervention would solve the problem, northern nigerian(majorly hausas) must make the region uncomfortable for boko haram,reject the imposition of sharia law and become secular muslims. I believe that insurgency can only work when the locals support it actively or passively,that is probably the reason it hasn’t spread to the western/southern/eastern part of nigeria(predominantly Christians and much more educated than the northerners). Sorry that my post is long and disjointed,I hope you can understand what I’m saying [/quote]

No great post man, thanks for the insight.

Not often that we get somebody right there to actually tell us what is really going on.

This is a classic Christian vs. Islam conflict correct?

The girls were Christian and have been forcibly converted to Islam? At least that is what was on the latest CNN video.

75

Didn’t get a response to this, does any one know who’s buying these girls? are they being married off to Islamic pedos? sold?

76

Lol!

77

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Didn’t get a response to this, does any one know who’s buying these girls? are they being married off to Islamic pedos? sold?[/quote]
Oh about that, it is certain that they are being sold to men like that. In northern nigeria,and in other places where islam is the major religion,and there’s a presence of sharia law, girls can be married off as early as 10,11 years old,so selling the young girls isn’t much different. This happens in a lot of places in northern africa,and the middle east too,however most media houses turn a blind eye to it(mainstream media is afraid of islam)

78

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]stevekweli wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]stevekweli wrote:
I am nigerian,and I live in lagos southwest of nigeria,so I have an understanding of what’s going on. Boko haram are a terrorist group with links to AQ,I think because of the set up of my country(large muslim population),people have been unable to say the truth. The insurgent are restricted to the north well because the northerner allow them. I believe insurgency can only work if the locals allow it,and because of religious,socio economic factors the north is a nice breeding ground for that sort of thing(many northerner are afraid to fight against something if it carries the emblem of islam,and a sizable amount support it secretly). If america comes to help,it would be good PR for obama’s government,but the USA hasn’t always designated boko haram a terrorist group,so that would hypocrisy plus coming to a place with the wrong mindset,and ideas of the enemy hampers effectiveness[/quote]

Are you there now? I appreciate your perspective since you clearly are closer to the situation than we are. What’s the mind set? What are the people hoping for?[/quote]
Yes I am in nigeria at the moment. Nigerian over the decades have developed a high level of mistrust and disdain for the ruling elite. For a lot of people,it is another opportunity to criticize the government(and truthfully the government has been a failure in almost everything),opposition political parties are also taking advantage of the situation to weaken the influence of ruling party. Also local media houses are very careful how they report the news in order to prevent the eruption of sectarian and religious violence(doing as much to edit anything that involves islam out of it). I’m not too sure if people in nigeria and by extension the rest of the world care much about the girl’s welfare, for some it is a way of doing something,while not doing anything(twitter hastag) maybe it helps them feel better about themselves, for some it a political advantage to weaken the govt and prevent jonathan from contesting in 2015. For majority of nigerians,we are not very hopeful that those would be found. The odds are just against them(large and porous borders,poor intelligence, the socio-political set up of northern nigeria). Now if you ask me what can be done to curb the menace of boko haram. I’ll tell you not very much in terms of military intervention would solve the problem, northern nigerian(majorly hausas) must make the region uncomfortable for boko haram,reject the imposition of sharia law and become secular muslims. I believe that insurgency can only work when the locals support it actively or passively,that is probably the reason it hasn’t spread to the western/southern/eastern part of nigeria(predominantly Christians and much more educated than the northerners). Sorry that my post is long and disjointed,I hope you can understand what I’m saying [/quote]

No great post man, thanks for the insight.

Not often that we get somebody right there to actually tell us what is really going on.

This is a classic Christian vs. Islam conflict correct?

The girls were Christian and have been forcibly converted to Islam? At least that is what was on the latest CNN video.[/quote]
It is in part a classic Christian vs islam conflict,although it has many dimensions we don’t even understand yet. It is being rumored that some politicians have sponsored boko haram and used them to help destabilize the govt,and to force the sitting president not to run. Another view is a section of the northern elites sponsors the group for divergent reason,one being to propagate the “jihad”,another is to cover the whole of nigeria eventually with sharia law,prevent the penetration of western education and tighten their hold over the muslim dominated north. I think it is a mix of all these factors coming into play.

79

[quote]stevekweli wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Didn’t get a response to this, does any one know who’s buying these girls? are they being married off to Islamic pedos? sold?[/quote]
Oh about that, it is certain that they are being sold to men like that. In northern nigeria,and in other places where islam is the major religion,and there’s a presence of sharia law, girls can be married off as early as 10,11 years old,so selling the young girls isn’t much different. This happens in a lot of places in northern africa,and the middle east too,however most media houses turn a blind eye to it(mainstream media is afraid of islam)[/quote]

K, thanks.