NHL Combine (Bench Press) Numbers

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21

[quote]lucky_swami wrote:
texasguy wrote:
Steve4192 wrote:
texasguy wrote:

yeah but they are still big pussies. and that is funny.

Having a big bench press does not make you any less of a pussy.

Most professional combat athletes (boxers, kickboxers, MMA) put up pathetic numbers in the weight room too. Just because I can outbench 'em by 100 pounds doesn’t mean I hold any illusions about being able to kick their asses.

skill, agility, endurance and a certain mental toughness are all very important for mma. but so is strength. most good mma fighters do put up decent numbers in the weight room.

matt hughes, frank shamrock (not ken though he is strong and was very good before mma was “cool”) vitor belfort in his prime, rampage jackson, randleman, ortiz, pick almost any champion and they will be strong.

take the gracies as an example. they concentrate on skill and put very little emphasis on strength, and they have their asses handed to them now that the sport has blown up and attracts good, in shape and strong athletes.

now, the gracies may be able to kick your ass, yet against equally skilled but stronger opponents they lose.

these hockey guys may have great hockey skills, but they are the cream of the crop of the hockey world and it isn’t too far fetched to believe they would be obsolete if players with real strength who could also match their skill level came along. maybe then body checks would be fun to watch!

i don’t care who you are or what sport you play. if you can only bench 150 lbs ten times and be considered the top at that, the sport has problems. (and people have suggested age and high school. by the time you graduate high school, if you are an athlete, you should be benching more than this.)

hockey has definately shown itself to NOT be a testosterone sport after this tidbit of information.

i’d put it with golf and tennis myself.

You’re an idiot

[/quote]
now that is an astounding way to convince somebody that these “athletes” are making hockey a worthy sport.

but ok fine. forget golf and tennis. hockey is on a level with soccer. except soccer players only pad their shins and very thinly, so hockey is actually a step behind.

now will you be putting your thumb on forehead, wiggling your fingers and spitting?

and is it that you were a hockey player or that you are a big pussy offended at the laughable amount of weight being put up or both?

22

[quote]texasguy wrote:
everyone seems to think their favorite sport is the toughest and i’m sorry but hiding behind more pads than a football player, skating in circles with the occasional “body check” (a very low impact collision for the most part, especially with the pads) does not make a guy tough. [/quote]

Low impact collisions? Have you even watched hockey? While yes, not all checks are violent, there certainly are a lot of hard-hitters in the NHL, and the checks are quite violent.

23

[quote]texasguy wrote:

matt hughes, frank shamrock (not ken though he is strong and was very good before mma was “cool”) vitor belfort in his prime, rampage jackson, randleman, ortiz, pick almost any champion and they will be strong.

[/quote]

Strong … yes.

Putting up big numbers in the weight room … no.

There are tons of pro fighters out there (not just in MMA, but also in boxing, K-1, etc.) that never go heavy in the gym. Watch some of Randy Couture or Tito Ortiz’s lifting routines. They almost always do circuits with lots of full-body movements and minimal weight, and I don’t know that I have ever seen one of them under the bar benching (excluding the infamous Tank Abbott video).

Now, are those guys strong as fuck in terms of function strength? Absolutely.

Does that mean they can put up huge numbers in the big three powerlifts? No.

24

[quote]texasguy wrote:

well i was a state qualifying wrestler two years in a row during high school, i’ve done grappling and have participated in amature mma tournaments with a bit of success. and yes, i would mess with a hocky player and probably whip his ass.

[/quote]

You probably would, but not because you have a bigger bench press PR.

You would whip his ass because ‘i was a state qualifying wrestler two years in a row during high school, i’ve done grappling and have participated in amature mma tournaments with a bit of success’.

Skill & experience would carry the day, not your bench press PR.

25

[quote]texasguy wrote:
everyone seems to think their favorite sport is the toughest and i’m sorry but hiding behind more pads than a football player, skating in circles with the occasional “body check” (a very low impact collision for the most part, especially with the pads) does not make a guy tough.
[/quote]

very low impact collisions? You must have no idea how fast these guys are moving when they collide.

And you can’t compare hockey equipment to football equipment. Hockey shoulder pads are smaller. Elbow pads, shin pads, and gloves protect mostly from falling on the ice, sticks, pucks, and being pinched between the board. None of the equipment (other than the mouthguard) stop your insides from feeling terrible after a collision.

26

[quote]Max wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:

Hockey players focus much more on leg strength, so it’s not surprising that they’re not as strong upper body wise.

Exactly. Paul Kariya at 5-10 180lbs. has squatted over 400 for 20 reps.

[/quote]

I give alot more props to someone that can squat 400 for 20 reps than some lineman benching 225 31 times

27

[quote]nramaker wrote:
I wonder if the NHL wouldn’t be in such a sorry state if their top prospects were, I don’t know, ACTUAL ATHLETES.

[/quote]

Because benching a lot makes you a great athlete…

28

[quote]texasguy wrote:
Max wrote:
texasguy wrote:
StevenF wrote:

well i was a state qualifying wrestler two years in a row during high school, i’ve done grappling and have participated in amature mma tournaments with a bit of success. and yes, i would mess with a hocky player and probably whip his ass.

everyone seems to think their favorite sport is the toughest and i’m sorry but hiding behind more pads than a football player, skating in circles with the occasional “body check” (a very low impact collision for the most part, especially with the pads) does not make a guy tough.

[/quote]

Yeah, I’m sure you would kick most of their asses, but that is because your background is in combat sports. Not many hockey players would claim to be able to kick the ass of a trained wrestler/boxer/mixed martial artist. Just as you wouldn’t claim to be able to beat them in hockey, you are not trained in it. Although, the guys who are there to mostly fight (there are not that many left these days) probably would kick your ass. Lots of these guys go around 240-270 and do train in wrestling, boxing, and mma in the off season.

To say they are not tough is just dumb. You obviously don’t know anything about the sport. If you ever witnessed it up close at the elite level, you would see their athletic ability is on par with any any sport. You must be tough to play 82 games a year in a brutally tough sport. They may not be “tough” in the sense that all of them can kick ass, but “tough” in what they play through. Many guys who have a long career in the NHL have injury histories that rival that of professional fighters and football players.

Knocked out teeth, broken orbital bones, detached retinas, broken noses, severe lacerations, concussions, broken jaws, separated shoulders, blown ACL’s, broken feet, broken ankles, broken hands. These are all extremely common in players who have long careers. Sounds a lot like what happens to fighters with long careers, doesn’t it? Many NHL players get more than 500 stitches in their career. Just because they are not trained to win a street fight, doesn’t mean they are not tough.

29

I can’t believe the ignorance of some of the people on this thread. Actually one person. Texasguy your a complete idiot. I don’t even know you and I hate everything about you.

Since when was bench press an important movement for a hockey player?

Players in the NFL and other sports put up ridiculous bench numbers. Your right. Its also applicable for the movements of their sports.

Have you ever played or watched hockey? The sport is incredibly violent, and it’s played by some of the toughest humans on earth.

I watch a wide variety of sports and it’s safe to say that hockey players may be the most agressive and toughest athletes. In no other classic sport (when I say classic I mean American Football, Basketball, Baseball) can a confrontation be settled right on the playing field through an actual fight.

Low Impact Collisons? Watch the next playoff game. You’ll see incredibly skilled athletes skating around the ice like Kamikazee’s trying to take eachothers heads off.

Pussies? If I’m not mistaken a couple of years ago Bob Probert (a NHL classic toughguy) took on three cops with cow tazers at a bar in Florida, witnesses said he held his own. Zdeno Chara could probably reverse curl 225 for 50.

Say what you want about a group of 17 year olds bench pressing, but don’t disrespect one of the greatest games on earth. If you actually take the time to watch hockey you’ll see what I’m talking about, and if you don’t you might have to redefine what you consider a “testosterone sport”

30

[quote]Steve4192 wrote:
texasguy wrote:

well i was a state qualifying wrestler two years in a row during high school, i’ve done grappling and have participated in amature mma tournaments with a bit of success. and yes, i would mess with a hocky player and probably whip his ass.

You probably would, but not because you have a bigger bench press PR.

You would whip his ass because ‘i was a state qualifying wrestler two years in a row during high school, i’ve done grappling and have participated in amature mma tournaments with a bit of success’.

Skill & experience would carry the day, not your bench press PR.[/quote]

and from experience, i would tell you that strength is a very important tool.

when i train for the above mentioned sports i do use light weight circuit style sessions and i go for hours, alternating with intense cardio excercises.

however, i do make time for strength training, as does any fighter i’ve ever known, and i’ve known a handful even if amature. you can’t pick people up, slam them down, twist legs and arms etc with out strength.

it is impossible.

the point is, these hockey players are weak as far as athletes go. no one is saying they should be powerlifting all stars, but that the small amount they are lifting is a curious thing for a pro athlete.

31

The NHL combine is not an indicator of the toughness level of hockey players because the most skilled players in hockey are often the smallest and often lack any sort of toughness. Tougher players come later in the draft… otherwise, it would be like drafting Dave Semenko before Wayne Gretzky.

At the guy that said hockey hits are soft and hockey players wear more padding than football is clearly out of his mind. In most sports, you don’t have two players going at full speed in opposite directions colliding. Then you factor in how much faster hockey is than running and it becomes pretty clear that there’s potential for some pretty scary shit:

Nice touch on bringing up MMA by the way. Clearly, every conflict on the internet now has to be sorted out by bringing up what kind of grappler you are.

32

[quote]Nothingface wrote:
texasguy wrote:
Max wrote:
texasguy wrote:
StevenF wrote:

well i was a state qualifying wrestler two years in a row during high school, i’ve done grappling and have participated in amature mma tournaments with a bit of success. and yes, i would mess with a hocky player and probably whip his ass.

everyone seems to think their favorite sport is the toughest and i’m sorry but hiding behind more pads than a football player, skating in circles with the occasional “body check” (a very low impact collision for the most part, especially with the pads) does not make a guy tough.

Yeah, I’m sure you would kick most of their asses, but that is because your background is in combat sports. Not many hockey players would claim to be able to kick the ass of a trained wrestler/boxer/mixed martial artist. Just as you wouldn’t claim to be able to beat them in hockey, you are not trained in it. Although, the guys who are there to mostly fight (there are not that many left these days) probably would kick your ass. Lots of these guys go around 240-270 and do train in wrestling, boxing, and mma in the off season.

To say they are not tough is just dumb. You obviously don’t know anything about the sport. If you ever witnessed it up close at the elite level, you would see their athletic ability is on par with any any sport. You must be tough to play 82 games a year in a brutally tough sport. They may not be “tough” in the sense that all of them can kick ass, but “tough” in what they play through. Many guys who have a long career in the NHL have injury histories that rival that of professional fighters and football players.

Knocked out teeth, broken orbital bones, detached retinas, broken noses, severe lacerations, concussions, broken jaws, separated shoulders, blown ACL’s, broken feet, broken ankles, broken hands. These are all extremely common in players who have long careers. Sounds a lot like what happens to fighters with long careers, doesn’t it? Many NHL players get more than 500 stitches in their career. Just because they are not trained to win a street fight, doesn’t mean they are not tough.

[/quote]

hey man, i was responding to a post. and i have watched professional hockey games up close. it’s not exciting and the toughest part seems to be able to balance on ice skates, but then it rarely ever freezes enough in Texas to make hockey a major sport. and figure skaters seem to have the tough part down anyways.

the injuries you list are not exclusive to hockey by any means and maybe if hockey players were tougher and stronger they would suffer less injuries.

you don’t have to be tough to play 82 games in a 365 day year. you have to be in shape. i’ll give them that.

and i’m not attacking hockey necessarily. just stating that i agree with the OP that the numbers put up by the incoming players are weak compared to virtually all other sports which really can’t be argued. the weakness of the players does detract from the sport as a whole though.

but hey, if hockey is your thing, more power to you. i’ve heard people argue that basketball is a tough sport because when the ref isn’t looking elbows are thrown.

people will defend the toughness of any sport they have played, even tennis players with their “tennis elbow”. after all, you have to be tough to play tennis with tennis elbow.

33

[quote]AgentOrange wrote:
The NHL combine is not an indicator of the toughness level of hockey players because the most skilled players in hockey are often the smallest and often lack any sort of toughness. Tougher players come later in the draft… otherwise, it would be like drafting Dave Semenko before Wayne Gretzky.

At the guy that said hockey hits are soft and hockey players wear more padding than football is clearly out of his mind. In most sports, you don’t have two players going at full speed in opposite directions colliding. Then you factor in how much faster hockey is than running and it becomes pretty clear that there’s potential for some pretty scary shit:

Nice touch on bringing up MMA by the way. Clearly, every conflict on the internet now has to be sorted out by bringing up what kind of grappler you are. [/quote]

i was only bringing up mma in response to a post. and mma is a tougher sport than any. especially one where you hid behind pads and fighting is penalized.

besides, i’m just saying the hockey players are pretty weak considering other sports and that really can’t be argued. if hockey fans want to defend hockey by bringing up how tough it is in other aspects, i’ll respond to the direction they took the conversation. the original conversation related to the astounding lack of upper body strength however.

hockey players may move at fast speeds, but they also wear lots of big pads. and they don’t get moving all that fast unless there is a lot of open ice for them to speed up. most of the collisions are really just shoves that look bad because it’s hard to balance on thin ice skate blades.

and as far as me being out of my mind on the padding, you have to be kidding me.

and most sports don’t consist of people moving at full speeds in opposite directions and colliding? then you mention football in the very next sentence? and foot ball players are bigger, stronger and harder hitting too.

what about rugby, where they have no pads?

in wrestling there is no running collisions, but you are picked up and thrown on the ground.

hockey isn’t special or tough.

34

You’re right, I guess a sport where a player gets hit in the face with a slapshot, gets stiched up on the bench and is back out for the next shift isn’t tough at all…

35

[quote]texasguy wrote:
and as far as me being out of my mind on the padding, you have to be kidding me.

and most sports don’t consist of people moving at full speeds in opposite directions and colliding? then you mention football in the very next sentence? and foot ball players are bigger, stronger and harder hitting too.
[/quote]

I’m not kidding. If hockey players wore the amount of equipment as rugby players for example, people would be DIEING!

Sure football players are stronger and bigger, but they aren’t moving anywhere near the same speed. And don’t say they are “harder hitting too” because you have no idea what you’re talking about.

36

[quote]texasguy wrote:
AgentOrange wrote:

hockey isn’t special or tough.
[/quote]

I’m not going to lie I hate hockey, but i give respect where its due… texas i understand that you aren’t attacking them you’re just saying they’re weak…

but i think they’re squat can compare regardless… and as for the pads thing… come on dude have a little bit of common sense they do wear a lot of pads thats so that they can continue to play in their season people get concusions all the time in games and stuff. They would rock you or I on the ice equally enough to where we could be in the hospital.

And yea you might not skate so thats your excuse… but everything takes skill don’t call em pussies

37

Sean Skahan - strength coach for the Anaheim Ducks - is a good friend of mine. We had dinner together about two months ago when he was here in Boston, and one of the things we discussed was that the only guys who test extremely well on most of these traditional measures are the fighters.

Believe it or not, the single-best predictor of NHL success continues to be body fat percentage.

Of course, getting stronger is never going to hurt. :wink:

38

[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Sean Skahan - strength coach for the Anaheim Ducks - is a good friend of mine. We had dinner together about two months ago when he was here in Boston, and one of the things we discussed was that the only guys who test extremely well on most of these traditional measures are the fighters.

Believe it or not, the single-best predictor of NHL success continues to be body fat percentage.

Of course, getting stronger is never going to hurt. :wink:

www.EricCressey.com[/quote]

Thank you for shutting this ignorant fool up.

39

Oh, yeah, you’re right. Hockey players aren’t tough at all.

stop now before you look like even more of a dumbass.

40

[quote]MidDistanceMac wrote:
texasguy wrote:
AgentOrange wrote:

hockey isn’t special or tough.

I’m not going to lie I hate hockey, but i give respect where its due… texas i understand that you aren’t attacking them you’re just saying they’re weak…

but i think they’re squat can compare regardless… and as for the pads thing… come on dude have a little bit of common sense they do wear a lot of pads thats so that they can continue to play in their season people get concusions all the time in games and stuff. They would rock you or I on the ice equally enough to where we could be in the hospital.

And yea you might not skate so thats your excuse… but everything takes skill don’t call em pussies[/quote]

skating does take skill, but the thread is about strength. if we are talking about skating skill, figure skaters have a lock.

and i’d bet if we were on an even playing field, the ground, and ran at each other i’d have a pretty fair chance of taking them off of their feet. this thread isn’t really about me though.

hockey players have weak upper bodies, and the descriptions used “he really ripped it up” et cetera were funny in context of the puny weight.