^ Fuck you quotes!!
RG3> Tom Brady
RG3 > Kaepernick
I <3 RG3
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
RG3> Tom Brady
RG3 > Kaepernick
I <3 RG3[/quote]
Hey Nate I offered you a future job in that other thread
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
RG3> Tom Brady
RG3 > Kaepernick
I <3 RG3[/quote]
lol
I will say I like what I’ve seen of the dude’s politics. He has balls the size of Texas and I’m happy for him. He has a future after football for sure.
Whether he has one in football will depend on if he can learn to slide.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Well, I for one have never called you out for your Jets predictions, nor for anything else. So if that is what your vitriol arises from, direct it elsewhere and not at me.
And what’s wrong with me pumping up Kaepernick? [/quote]
My issue isn’t with you or your love for your QB. My issue is with how adimatly some people who never post in this thread took me to task for not toeing the “Jets will be horrid” line and demanded this that and the other about a fairly straight forward, not so crazy idea.
I used your love of a guy with 10 whole starts, and these same people not having any issue with anything you said as an example of why I think the other two dudes are relative fucksticks.
And for the record, you are one of the first people to bash yourself or your team when it is warranted. You have a clear idea of who you are and where your limits are. It just so happens that you are the most vocal about what is basically an unproven commodity at this point, and these two are riding your dick for your posts.
[quote] Am I supposed to sit there and say, “gee, I don’t want to rub countingbeans the wrong way so I should just sit on my hands and not say anything at all”? Is that what this thread is about, discussing football strictly under your terms? Discussing football so long as we don’t get TOO excited about a legitimate star in the league who just happens to be playing on our favorite team?
Fuck that shit. I’ll come in here and discuss Kaepernick or anything else related to the 49ers all I want and at whatever intensity level I want. If you don’t like it, you can fuck off and die for all I care. It’s not my problem you can’t handle the fact that the team I so passionately root for,[/quote]
You’re again missing my point. Had I not been jumped on by like 4 people after not a single one mentioned the Kap jock riding, I wouldn’t have used your love for dude as an example of why certain posters are dicks.
Beat? Yes. Walloped? Not even close.
If that was a Wallop, what happened in Seattle the week after that one?
[quote]is on the way up and yours is on the way down.
That’s right, the Patriots are on the way out, pal.[/quote]
I’ve said as much myself, over and over again. Again, had you been posting here you’d understand why a comment like that is silly to be honest.
Good lord, really? Just really with this?
Wow.
[/quote]
Fair enough. I appreciate that you at least acknowledge my ability to also accept when the 49ers stink it up, like in Seattle last year, which was not a walloping but something far, far worse and more embarrassing. I had an avatar bet on that game and I changed my avatar before halftime.
I understand your point and I’m sorry that some people have apparently jumped on some sort of bandwagon of mine for my critique of the Jets (more like Sanchez rather than the whole team). However, while I don’t think that I am above reproach for my comments about Kaepernick, they are hardly one in the same. Basically, I am saying that a guy who has shined thus far will continue to shine and also that a team/player (Sanchez and the Jets) that has stunk it up recently will continue to do so.
So perhaps the reason you find yourself the victim of some attacks from others is because you seem willing to disregard the possibility of a current trend continuing when it comes to the Jets but are equally loathe to accept that the current trend with Kaepernick will continue. The fact is that good players usually continue to be good while poor teams usually continue to be poor, barring drastic changes, of which the Jets have made none so far.
My point is that there seems to be more evidence or whatever you want to call it to suggest that Kaepernick will continue to be good than there is that the Jets will somehow reverse their current trend of apathy. They simply aren’t the same thing so I don’t see why each should be treated equally by others who post in here.
You also discount the fact that people in general tend to hate the Jets more than the 49ers. The Jets dominate the football news landscape more than they rightly should, mostly because of the hype surrounding Tebow and the hype created by Rex Ryan’s boastful comments. They are just plain hard to feel ambivalent towards and the fact is that unless you’re a Jets fan, you’re likely going to hate them for having to listen to shit about them so much when you might feel that your own team should be receiving more attention than it does. The Jets received more attention for most of the last two years than any of the Super Bowl contestants. That sort of unwarranted attention is only naturally going to engender some animosity, and sometimes it manifests itself in attacks against those who defend them on this site.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
RG3> Tom Brady
RG3 > Kaepernick
I <3 RG3[/quote]
Hey Nate I offered you a future job in that other thread[/quote]
I know. And there they were saying networking doesn’t do anything!!!
(It’s not out of the question but I’ve gotta shore up some holes in my family life so I can keep moving towards PA school)
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
RG3> Tom Brady
RG3 > Kaepernick
I <3 RG3[/quote]
lol
I will say I like what I’ve seen of the dude’s politics. He has balls the size of Texas and I’m happy for him. He has a future after football for sure.
Whether he has one in football will depend on if he can learn to slide. [/quote]
Yea, again, defenses answer to this is going to be just spy the QB and knock the fuck out of him every play. Eventually the QB’s break.
For Kap and RG3 to be successful they need to stay in the pocket and throw to rock
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Also lol @ your use of “stats” when I buried your “Steve Young was a pure pocket passer” line of bullshit with stats, only for you to return with “but did you watch the games?”
[/quote]
I don’t remember you burying anything. And for the record, I DID post in here when the Niners sucked, just not often. I was in here on a pretty regular basis as soon as the Niners hired Harbaugh, not as soon as they started winning.
And your argument about Young not being a pure pocket passer was poor at best. It revolved entirely around your bastardization of the definition of “pure pocket passer” to “strictly pocket passer”. To me, a guy who is a pure pocket passer makes plays from the pocket primarily. If he can also run, fine. But the point is that they stay in the pocket until nothing is happening there and THEN they take off running, not like Vick where he ran at the first sign of trouble.
In Young’s prime, from 1992 to 1998, he was as pure a pocket passer in the game in that respect. He made plays from the pocket and he didn’t look to scramble until after he’d made his progressions through several reads or the pocket just outright collapsed on him. It’s why he was consistently throwing for more than 3000 yards at a time when offenses didn’t routinely throw the ball 70% of the time.
And your idea of blowing up that argument was pointing to his total rushing yards or whatever. The reason I asked if you ever even saw him play on a regular basis was because if you HAD seen him play regularly, you would have known the context in which those yards were gained. He had a career rushing average of almost 8 yards a carry, so when he ran, he almost always gained big yardage. If you saw him play in his prime, you would have known that he wasn’t strictly a scrambler or a one-read-and-off-he-goes QB. A lot of the yardage he gained came on designed naked bootlegs where he’d roll out to his left and either pass it or keep it and run.
But when it came to passing, the guy made plays with his arm from within the pocket better than any of his contemporaries, except for maybe Brett Favre or John Elway. If being one of the best of your generation at making plays with your arm from in the pocket doesn’t make you a pure pocket passer, I don’t know what does.[/quote]
lol, yes, “pure pocket passers” rush for 4k yards in their career, yup…
[/quote]
This one did. That’s why Young was so unique and a first-ballot Hall of Famer.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Kaepernick is in a league of his own so far when it comes to downfield accuracy. The fact is that the league has eventually figured out a way to stop a lot of developments from offenses, yes.
[/quote]
He’s played in 7 games. Let’s see how he does being banged up for an entire season before we hand him the MVP award.
Teams will adjust to the pistol, wildcat, etc… Teams always do. Like RG3 a few good hits and I don’t beleive Kap will be able to run when flushed like EVERYTIME like you think.
I don’t know, I don’t remember. The Falcon’s shouldn’t have been in that game, imo, anyway.
Off course Jim will adjust. Who considered the 49ers to have the most varied/nuanced offenses in the league? You’re so over the top “extremely limited,” and “ultra-dynamic,” give me a break. KAP has played 7 games and most of them were against OKAY teams. He played well in the playoffs. So did this guy named Joe Flacco, and he’s still an average maybe slightly above average QB at best.
DB, I like your post, but you are so jaded it’s comical.
“the most creative offensive minds in football, coaching the most physically-talented QB in the league”
Seriously…
Awesome, he could easily be a bust and the niners have good players, but so do a lot of other teams. They’re good on paper that’s for sure.
[quote]
Mark my words: This season will mark a paradigm shift in the way offenses are run, with the 49ers heads and shoulders above the rest of the league in terms of innovation, scheme, variety and explosiveness.[/quote]
Okay, words marked. [/quote]
Well of course I’m going to use some over-the-top language to illustrate my point. It’s just my way of coloring things up a bit. Is that so bad?
And I for one don’t consider Joe Flacco an average QB and have never been one of the ones in here ridiculing him for that or his eyebrows or his demands of elite status and so forth.
And you ask who considered the 49ers offense to be so varied and creative? Only literally every analyst I’ve ever heard in the last two years when the subject was broached. Who else can lay claim to that description?
As far as RG3 goes, he got injured making a cut and without getting hit in the first place. And prior to that, he was scrambling in the middle of the field, whereas virtually ALL of Kaepernick’s runs are to the outside, by design or otherwise, where the only guys who can lay a hit on him are either smaller than him or slower than him. Plus, he’s built to take a hit better than RG3 is since he has about three inches and 25 lbs on him.
And again, my point is that Kaepernick doesn’t have to run constantly in order to gain big yardage. He can pass the ball from the pocket as well as anyone in the league right now, in my opinion, which I have bolstered with statistical evidence.
And while Kaepernick played well against OKAY teams, he also excelled against some good teams, such as Chicago (well, good defense anyways) and NE and in NO when New Orleans was playing very well. He also stepped up his game immensely when facing playoff teams in Green Bay, Atlanta and Baltimore.
And here is another telling statistic that I think has some serious relevancy when it comes to his mental toughness, which is always a tough thing to gauge in a young QB: every time Kaepernick has EVER turned the ball over in his career, whether on a fumble or an interception, he has responded by taking the team down the field for a score on the very next possession. Every. Single. Time.
Small sample size, sure but that includes in the playoffs and the Super Bowl, so he has shown in the limited opportunities available to him that he can respond well to adversity.[/quote]
There’s nothing wrong with being over the top.
Believe me I am one of Flacco’s biggest supports, but I doubt he will break 4,000 yards or 30 TDs this year and people will HATE him for it. Especially in B’moore. In my mind those #'s a re perfectly okay, Baltimore does have this guy named Ray Rice. I hear he’s pretty good.
RG3 got hurt being crushed by Hiloti Nagata, not on some cut.
You listen to Analyst? They talk abotu Tim Tebow for days on end. I remember getting riped in here (not by you) for linking the ESPN power rankings. So I guess Analysts words are out. Also if the Niners were offensive guru’s wouldn’t Alex Smith have had better #'s?
Let me say this again to be clear, KAP IS GOOD HE WILL PROBABLY DO WELL IN THE NFL OVER HIS CARERR. As far a the turnover to score stat you mentioned. That may be true, but while he plays a part in that his supporting cast being so good plays a very large role as well. Put him on the Browns and lets see if he marched down the field for 7 after a turnover.
Small sample size, that’s all I’m saying. It’s too early to tell how good or great he will be.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
RG3> Tom Brady
RG3 > Kaepernick
I <3 RG3[/quote]
lol
I will say I like what I’ve seen of the dude’s politics. He has balls the size of Texas and I’m happy for him. He has a future after football for sure.
Whether he has one in football will depend on if he can learn to slide. [/quote]
I have family that are very liberal die hard democrats that love the RedSkins, so I freakin LOVE the political aspect as well.
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
RG3> Tom Brady
RG3 > Kaepernick
I <3 RG3[/quote]
Hey Nate I offered you a future job in that other thread[/quote]
I know. And there they were saying networking doesn’t do anything!!!
(It’s not out of the question but I’ve gotta shore up some holes in my family life so I can keep moving towards PA school)[/quote]
Got you, I also hire Paramedics, so dont stop at the EMT-B
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It also helps that the Niners have an easy schedule. Put Kap on the Browns, then let’s see how great he is.[/quote]
You could say the same thing about any great QB. Put Montana or Young or Elway or Brady or Starr on the Browns and how would they do?
The great players make those around them better. Also, and this was definitely the case in the second half of Montana’s career, good players want to play on the teams with the great QBs. The Niners were able to get a lot of really good free agents when Montana played because they knew he gave them an excellent chance at a ring.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Also lol @ your use of “stats” when I buried your “Steve Young was a pure pocket passer” line of bullshit with stats, only for you to return with “but did you watch the games?”
[/quote]
I don’t remember you burying anything. And for the record, I DID post in here when the Niners sucked, just not often. I was in here on a pretty regular basis as soon as the Niners hired Harbaugh, not as soon as they started winning.
And your argument about Young not being a pure pocket passer was poor at best. It revolved entirely around your bastardization of the definition of “pure pocket passer” to “strictly pocket passer”. To me, a guy who is a pure pocket passer makes plays from the pocket primarily. If he can also run, fine. But the point is that they stay in the pocket until nothing is happening there and THEN they take off running, not like Vick where he ran at the first sign of trouble.
In Young’s prime, from 1992 to 1998, he was as pure a pocket passer in the game in that respect. He made plays from the pocket and he didn’t look to scramble until after he’d made his progressions through several reads or the pocket just outright collapsed on him. It’s why he was consistently throwing for more than 3000 yards at a time when offenses didn’t routinely throw the ball 70% of the time.
And your idea of blowing up that argument was pointing to his total rushing yards or whatever. The reason I asked if you ever even saw him play on a regular basis was because if you HAD seen him play regularly, you would have known the context in which those yards were gained. He had a career rushing average of almost 8 yards a carry, so when he ran, he almost always gained big yardage. If you saw him play in his prime, you would have known that he wasn’t strictly a scrambler or a one-read-and-off-he-goes QB. A lot of the yardage he gained came on designed naked bootlegs where he’d roll out to his left and either pass it or keep it and run.
But when it came to passing, the guy made plays with his arm from within the pocket better than any of his contemporaries, except for maybe Brett Favre or John Elway. If being one of the best of your generation at making plays with your arm from in the pocket doesn’t make you a pure pocket passer, I don’t know what does.[/quote]
lol, yes, “pure pocket passers” rush for 4k yards in their career, yup…
[/quote]
This one did. That’s why Young was so unique and a first-ballot Hall of Famer.[/quote]
He didnt get successful until he stopped running around and developed his pocket passing ability.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
RG3> Tom Brady
RG3 > Kaepernick
I <3 RG3[/quote]
lol
I will say I like what I’ve seen of the dude’s politics. He has balls the size of Texas and I’m happy for him. He has a future after football for sure.
Whether he has one in football will depend on if he can learn to slide. [/quote]
Yea, again, defenses answer to this is going to be just spy the QB and knock the fuck out of him every play. Eventually the QB’s break.
For Kap and RG3 to be successful they need to stay in the pocket and throw to rock[/quote]
In defense of RG3, I don’t really think we got to see what he was truly able to do from the pocket except for a few bright spots. Scouts were sweating him for what he could do with his legs but said his real talent was what he could do through the air. Unforunately, I don’t think the play calling nor personnel around him allowed for that kind of talent to shine through. I’m hoping with another year of NFL quality training under his belt we will get a glimpse of that and in the next few years, as we build a stronger unit, we will see an RG3 that truly shuts up the critics and cements himself as one of the top PASSERS in the league who also has the incredible ability to evade defenses with his feet.
You don’t give up that many picks to get a guy who can only run. The scouts saw real talent. Now let’s hope he can stay healthy enough when he does get hit to show it.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It also helps that the Niners have an easy schedule. Put Kap on the Browns, then let’s see how great he is.[/quote]
You could say the same thing about any great QB. Put Montana or Young or Elway or Brady or Starr on the Browns and how would they do?
The great players make those around them better. Also, and this was definitely the case in the second half of Montana’s career, good players want to play on the teams with the great QBs. The Niners were able to get a lot of really good free agents when Montana played because they knew he gave them an excellent chance at a ring.[/quote]
I agree, but I’m not convinced Kap is that guy. Not yet anyway.
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
RG3> Tom Brady
RG3 > Kaepernick
I <3 RG3[/quote]
lol
I will say I like what I’ve seen of the dude’s politics. He has balls the size of Texas and I’m happy for him. He has a future after football for sure.
Whether he has one in football will depend on if he can learn to slide. [/quote]
Yea, again, defenses answer to this is going to be just spy the QB and knock the fuck out of him every play. Eventually the QB’s break.
For Kap and RG3 to be successful they need to stay in the pocket and throw to rock[/quote]
In defense of RG3, I don’t really think we got to see what he was truly able to do from the pocket except for a few bright spots. Scouts were sweating him for what he could do with his legs but said his real talent was what he could do through the air. Unforunately, I don’t think the play calling nor personnel around him allowed for that kind of talent to shine through. I’m hoping with another year of NFL quality training under his belt we will get a glimpse of that and in the next few years, as we build a stronger unit, we will see an RG3 that truly shuts up the critics and cements himself as one of the top PASSERS in the league who also has the incredible ability to evade defenses with his feet.
You don’t give up that many picks to get a guy who can only run. The scouts saw real talent. Now let’s hope he can stay healthy enough when he does get hit to show it.[/quote]
Actually I agree, he came from a spread offense at Baylor, it was going to take time for him to develop to play a traditional offense. Shanny played to RG3’s strengths, I would assume this year that he will develop more and run less.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Kaepernick is in a league of his own so far when it comes to downfield accuracy. The fact is that the league has eventually figured out a way to stop a lot of developments from offenses, yes.
[/quote]
He’s played in 7 games. Let’s see how he does being banged up for an entire season before we hand him the MVP award.
Teams will adjust to the pistol, wildcat, etc… Teams always do. Like RG3 a few good hits and I don’t beleive Kap will be able to run when flushed like EVERYTIME like you think.
I don’t know, I don’t remember. The Falcon’s shouldn’t have been in that game, imo, anyway.
Off course Jim will adjust. Who considered the 49ers to have the most varied/nuanced offenses in the league? You’re so over the top “extremely limited,” and “ultra-dynamic,” give me a break. KAP has played 7 games and most of them were against OKAY teams. He played well in the playoffs. So did this guy named Joe Flacco, and he’s still an average maybe slightly above average QB at best.
DB, I like your post, but you are so jaded it’s comical.
“the most creative offensive minds in football, coaching the most physically-talented QB in the league”
Seriously…
Awesome, he could easily be a bust and the niners have good players, but so do a lot of other teams. They’re good on paper that’s for sure.
[quote]
Mark my words: This season will mark a paradigm shift in the way offenses are run, with the 49ers heads and shoulders above the rest of the league in terms of innovation, scheme, variety and explosiveness.[/quote]
Okay, words marked. [/quote]
Well of course I’m going to use some over-the-top language to illustrate my point. It’s just my way of coloring things up a bit. Is that so bad?
And I for one don’t consider Joe Flacco an average QB and have never been one of the ones in here ridiculing him for that or his eyebrows or his demands of elite status and so forth.
And you ask who considered the 49ers offense to be so varied and creative? Only literally every analyst I’ve ever heard in the last two years when the subject was broached. Who else can lay claim to that description?
As far as RG3 goes, he got injured making a cut and without getting hit in the first place. And prior to that, he was scrambling in the middle of the field, whereas virtually ALL of Kaepernick’s runs are to the outside, by design or otherwise, where the only guys who can lay a hit on him are either smaller than him or slower than him. Plus, he’s built to take a hit better than RG3 is since he has about three inches and 25 lbs on him.
And again, my point is that Kaepernick doesn’t have to run constantly in order to gain big yardage. He can pass the ball from the pocket as well as anyone in the league right now, in my opinion, which I have bolstered with statistical evidence.
And while Kaepernick played well against OKAY teams, he also excelled against some good teams, such as Chicago (well, good defense anyways) and NE and in NO when New Orleans was playing very well. He also stepped up his game immensely when facing playoff teams in Green Bay, Atlanta and Baltimore.
And here is another telling statistic that I think has some serious relevancy when it comes to his mental toughness, which is always a tough thing to gauge in a young QB: every time Kaepernick has EVER turned the ball over in his career, whether on a fumble or an interception, he has responded by taking the team down the field for a score on the very next possession. Every. Single. Time.
Small sample size, sure but that includes in the playoffs and the Super Bowl, so he has shown in the limited opportunities available to him that he can respond well to adversity.[/quote]
There’s nothing wrong with being over the top.
Believe me I am one of Flacco’s biggest supports, but I doubt he will break 4,000 yards or 30 TDs this year and people will HATE him for it. Especially in B’moore. In my mind those #'s a re perfectly okay, Baltimore does have this guy named Ray Rice. I hear he’s pretty good.
RG3 got hurt being crushed by Hiloti Nagata, not on some cut.
You listen to Analyst? They talk abotu Tim Tebow for days on end. I remember getting riped in here (not by you) for linking the ESPN power rankings. So I guess Analysts words are out. Also if the Niners were offensive guru’s wouldn’t Alex Smith have had better #'s?
Let me say this again to be clear, KAP IS GOOD HE WILL PROBABLY DO WELL IN THE NFL OVER HIS CARERR. As far a the turnover to score stat you mentioned. That may be true, but while he plays a part in that his supporting cast being so good plays a very large role as well. Put him on the Browns and lets see if he marched down the field for 7 after a turnover.
Small sample size, that’s all I’m saying. It’s too early to tell how good or great he will be. [/quote]
He’s not on the Browns, so it’s a moot point.
And the fact that Alex Smith even has a job, let alone garnered the Niners a third or possibly second round pick next year along with the 34th pick this year, proves that Harbaugh and company are offensive gurus. I mean, people were straight up LAUGHING when Harbaugh said that Smith was his guy prior to the 2011 season. If I had said that Smith would have the sort of numbers that he had after a season and a half of starting under Harbaugh everyone would have laughed at me. This is a guy who was benched for Troy Fucking Smith, who isn’t even in the league anymore.
Regarding analysts, I don’t remember there being any sort of consensus about Tebow amongst analysts. In fact, I remember there being quite the debates from time to time on ESPN about whether or not Tebow was any good or had a future as a QB. And ESPN isn’t the sole possessor of analysts in the football media world. But when there is a clear consensus amongst analysts from literally every media outlet about which offense is the most creative and varied, I think that carries some weight to it. I’ve never seen or heard anyone argue differently since Harbaugh came on board. Have you?
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
RG3> Tom Brady
RG3 > Kaepernick
I <3 RG3[/quote]
lol
I will say I like what I’ve seen of the dude’s politics. He has balls the size of Texas and I’m happy for him. He has a future after football for sure.
Whether he has one in football will depend on if he can learn to slide. [/quote]
Yea, again, defenses answer to this is going to be just spy the QB and knock the fuck out of him every play. Eventually the QB’s break.
For Kap and RG3 to be successful they need to stay in the pocket and throw to rock[/quote]
In defense of RG3, I don’t really think we got to see what he was truly able to do from the pocket except for a few bright spots. Scouts were sweating him for what he could do with his legs but said his real talent was what he could do through the air. Unforunately, I don’t think the play calling nor personnel around him allowed for that kind of talent to shine through. I’m hoping with another year of NFL quality training under his belt we will get a glimpse of that and in the next few years, as we build a stronger unit, we will see an RG3 that truly shuts up the critics and cements himself as one of the top PASSERS in the league who also has the incredible ability to evade defenses with his feet.
You don’t give up that many picks to get a guy who can only run. The scouts saw real talent. Now let’s hope he can stay healthy enough when he does get hit to show it.[/quote]
Those stats I posted a few pages ago about Kaepernick’s downfield throwing ability? RG3 was the only one in the same league as Kaepernick, so I think he can definitely prove to be a great passer from the pocket if he remains healthy. He was more accurate than Kaepernick on the season (65 % to 62%) and only averaged slightly less yards per pass, which was still good for second in the NFL.
As long as the THREAT of the run is there, he can do very, very well from the pocket. I think Shanahan forced the running thing with him a little too much last year, whereas the Niners allowed Kaepernick to run only often enough to make teams account for it, sort of like bluffing on occasion while playing poker just so everyone knows you might not ALWAYS have a made hand when you bet.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Also lol @ your use of “stats” when I buried your “Steve Young was a pure pocket passer” line of bullshit with stats, only for you to return with “but did you watch the games?”
[/quote]
I don’t remember you burying anything. And for the record, I DID post in here when the Niners sucked, just not often. I was in here on a pretty regular basis as soon as the Niners hired Harbaugh, not as soon as they started winning.
And your argument about Young not being a pure pocket passer was poor at best. It revolved entirely around your bastardization of the definition of “pure pocket passer” to “strictly pocket passer”. To me, a guy who is a pure pocket passer makes plays from the pocket primarily. If he can also run, fine. But the point is that they stay in the pocket until nothing is happening there and THEN they take off running, not like Vick where he ran at the first sign of trouble.
In Young’s prime, from 1992 to 1998, he was as pure a pocket passer in the game in that respect. He made plays from the pocket and he didn’t look to scramble until after he’d made his progressions through several reads or the pocket just outright collapsed on him. It’s why he was consistently throwing for more than 3000 yards at a time when offenses didn’t routinely throw the ball 70% of the time.
And your idea of blowing up that argument was pointing to his total rushing yards or whatever. The reason I asked if you ever even saw him play on a regular basis was because if you HAD seen him play regularly, you would have known the context in which those yards were gained. He had a career rushing average of almost 8 yards a carry, so when he ran, he almost always gained big yardage. If you saw him play in his prime, you would have known that he wasn’t strictly a scrambler or a one-read-and-off-he-goes QB. A lot of the yardage he gained came on designed naked bootlegs where he’d roll out to his left and either pass it or keep it and run.
But when it came to passing, the guy made plays with his arm from within the pocket better than any of his contemporaries, except for maybe Brett Favre or John Elway. If being one of the best of your generation at making plays with your arm from in the pocket doesn’t make you a pure pocket passer, I don’t know what does.[/quote]
lol, yes, “pure pocket passers” rush for 4k yards in their career, yup…
[/quote]
This one did. That’s why Young was so unique and a first-ballot Hall of Famer.[/quote]
He didnt get successful until he stopped running around and developed his pocket passing ability. [/quote]
He was the league MVP in his second season as a starter.
Steve Young was really only a hair-on-fire type of scrambler his first few years in the league when he was in Tampa and then replaced Montana a couple times in 1987 and early 1988. By the time he was the full-time starter in 1991, and especially in 1992 when he was the MVP, he still ran a lot, but he made plays from the pocket first and foremost.
The fact that he could run like no other QB when he WAS flushed from the pocket shouldn’t be held against him when it comes to his pocket-passing abilities. The guy set several records for passing accuracy and passer rating when he was playing. Just because he was great on the run doesn’t mean that he wasn’t ALSO a great passer from the pocket.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Kaepernick is in a league of his own so far when it comes to downfield accuracy. The fact is that the league has eventually figured out a way to stop a lot of developments from offenses, yes.
[/quote]
He’s played in 7 games. Let’s see how he does being banged up for an entire season before we hand him the MVP award.
Teams will adjust to the pistol, wildcat, etc… Teams always do. Like RG3 a few good hits and I don’t beleive Kap will be able to run when flushed like EVERYTIME like you think.
I don’t know, I don’t remember. The Falcon’s shouldn’t have been in that game, imo, anyway.
Off course Jim will adjust. Who considered the 49ers to have the most varied/nuanced offenses in the league? You’re so over the top “extremely limited,” and “ultra-dynamic,” give me a break. KAP has played 7 games and most of them were against OKAY teams. He played well in the playoffs. So did this guy named Joe Flacco, and he’s still an average maybe slightly above average QB at best.
DB, I like your post, but you are so jaded it’s comical.
“the most creative offensive minds in football, coaching the most physically-talented QB in the league”
Seriously…
Awesome, he could easily be a bust and the niners have good players, but so do a lot of other teams. They’re good on paper that’s for sure.
[quote]
Mark my words: This season will mark a paradigm shift in the way offenses are run, with the 49ers heads and shoulders above the rest of the league in terms of innovation, scheme, variety and explosiveness.[/quote]
Okay, words marked. [/quote]
Well of course I’m going to use some over-the-top language to illustrate my point. It’s just my way of coloring things up a bit. Is that so bad?
And I for one don’t consider Joe Flacco an average QB and have never been one of the ones in here ridiculing him for that or his eyebrows or his demands of elite status and so forth.
And you ask who considered the 49ers offense to be so varied and creative? Only literally every analyst I’ve ever heard in the last two years when the subject was broached. Who else can lay claim to that description?
As far as RG3 goes, he got injured making a cut and without getting hit in the first place. And prior to that, he was scrambling in the middle of the field, whereas virtually ALL of Kaepernick’s runs are to the outside, by design or otherwise, where the only guys who can lay a hit on him are either smaller than him or slower than him. Plus, he’s built to take a hit better than RG3 is since he has about three inches and 25 lbs on him.
And again, my point is that Kaepernick doesn’t have to run constantly in order to gain big yardage. He can pass the ball from the pocket as well as anyone in the league right now, in my opinion, which I have bolstered with statistical evidence.
And while Kaepernick played well against OKAY teams, he also excelled against some good teams, such as Chicago (well, good defense anyways) and NE and in NO when New Orleans was playing very well. He also stepped up his game immensely when facing playoff teams in Green Bay, Atlanta and Baltimore.
And here is another telling statistic that I think has some serious relevancy when it comes to his mental toughness, which is always a tough thing to gauge in a young QB: every time Kaepernick has EVER turned the ball over in his career, whether on a fumble or an interception, he has responded by taking the team down the field for a score on the very next possession. Every. Single. Time.
Small sample size, sure but that includes in the playoffs and the Super Bowl, so he has shown in the limited opportunities available to him that he can respond well to adversity.[/quote]
There’s nothing wrong with being over the top.
Believe me I am one of Flacco’s biggest supports, but I doubt he will break 4,000 yards or 30 TDs this year and people will HATE him for it. Especially in B’moore. In my mind those #'s a re perfectly okay, Baltimore does have this guy named Ray Rice. I hear he’s pretty good.
RG3 got hurt being crushed by Hiloti Nagata, not on some cut.
You listen to Analyst? They talk abotu Tim Tebow for days on end. I remember getting riped in here (not by you) for linking the ESPN power rankings. So I guess Analysts words are out. Also if the Niners were offensive guru’s wouldn’t Alex Smith have had better #'s?
Let me say this again to be clear, KAP IS GOOD HE WILL PROBABLY DO WELL IN THE NFL OVER HIS CARERR. As far a the turnover to score stat you mentioned. That may be true, but while he plays a part in that his supporting cast being so good plays a very large role as well. Put him on the Browns and lets see if he marched down the field for 7 after a turnover.
Small sample size, that’s all I’m saying. It’s too early to tell how good or great he will be. [/quote]
He’s not on the Browns, so it’s a moot point.
And the fact that Alex Smith even has a job, let alone garnered the Niners a third or possibly second round pick next year along with the 34th pick this year, proves that Harbaugh and company are offensive gurus. I mean, people were straight up LAUGHING when Harbaugh said that Smith was his guy prior to the 2011 season. If I had said that Smith would have the sort of numbers that he had after a season and a half of starting under Harbaugh everyone would have laughed at me. This is a guy who was benched for Troy Fucking Smith, who isn’t even in the league anymore.
Regarding analysts, I don’t remember there being any sort of consensus about Tebow amongst analysts. In fact, I remember there being quite the debates from time to time on ESPN about whether or not Tebow was any good or had a future as a QB. And ESPN isn’t the sole possessor of analysts in the football media world. But when there is a clear consensus amongst analysts from literally every media outlet about which offense is the most creative and varied, I think that carries some weight to it. I’ve never seen or heard anyone argue differently since Harbaugh came on board. Have you?[/quote]
It’s not really a moot point from my perspective. If Kap played in the much more physcial AFC North we would see, truly, how good a pocket passer he is. This is because he would be hit and hit and hit and hit then hit some more. His support cast would also be okay vs. the great cast he has now, which would show how he handles adveristy. Real adveristy not oh I threw a pick, but we made the playoffs in week 10 so no big deal…
Alex Smith is an okay QB and he did lead the Niners to, what, half their wins, so if he’s so bad and he could do it what makes Kaps wins special?
Analysts are analyst, they have their own slant and spin everytime is my point. The latch on to teams and topics, they’re not exactly objective.