New Protocol From New Doctor

[dextermorgan]

@lbc2020 I would go to 185mg first like @hardartery does (and I did initially) and assess after 3 months. It may take some time to get used to initially but the difference after 3 months is big. The key is to stay on it long enough to reap the benefits. I personally would do a twice a week or even 3 times a week (or whatever more frequent split than once a week) if I were you. The more frequent injections make me feel more even and without the ups and downs I had with less frequent injections but that really depends on the person as most of the folks in real life I know are happy with once a week and have never tried anything else.

[vonko1988]

@youthful55guy

I bumped up my HCG from 150 IU MWF (450 IU/week) to 450 IU E3D (1050 IU/week).

How do you handle that dose of HCG, do you have side effects?

[lbc2020]

When I was on 140 a week my trough was basically 810 and my free T was higher than the normal limit

Does that mean 140 should be enough to give me high numbers?

And stick with that first ?

[youthful55guy]

@vonko1988

How do you handle that dose of HCG, do you have side effects?

I have no discernible side-effects from HCG. Perhaps I’m just different than other guys, but I suspect that a lot of the supposed side-effects reported in these forums are not related to the HCG at all. It’s been shown in at least two published papers that a dose of approximately 1000 IU per week in a E2D protocol is what is needed to replace the lost LH signal in the testicles when healthy test subjects are put on a stout dose of 200mg/week of T-eth. See the summary graph below that I made from data I extracted from these publications. Why would one expect side-effects from simply replacing what is lost?

[vonko1988]

I also take 100 ui daily and dont seem to have side effects only positives

But a lot of people have and hcg is not exact lh analog. Also its timing of action is different

[youthful55guy]

@lbc2020

When I was on 140 a week my trough was basically 810 and my free T was higher than the normal limit

Does that mean 140 should be enough to give me high numbers?

And stick with that first ?

A couple of thoughts:

1. Always post normal ranges with you labs. They vary from lab to lab and one always need to evaluate them within the normal rage for the specific lab that ran the test. Having said that, 810 ng/dL is a respectable nadir (trough) value using the normal range of 348-916 at my test lab.

2. The nadir value also need to be evaluated based on the protocol that you are following. Generally, nadir values will be higher with more frequent injection protocols.

3. I never base any decisions on Total T. It’s influenced by SHBG levels and I have very high SHBG, so I need a higher T dose to keep Free T in an acceptable range.

4. You did not post your Free T numbers, but going over the upper end of the “normal” range is not entirely problematic (for Free T). This is because Free T is an age-adjusted lab because SHBG is age-adjusted. For whatever reason, the medical profession seems to interoperate “normal ranges” as cast in stone dosing guidelines. Quite frankly, I think age-adjustment of hormones is a crock of $#it. I’m going to be 63 years old next week. Look around you. Do you want to have the Free T of the average 63 year old you see, with a pot belly and sagging body parts? I don’t. That is why I use Set my Free T dosing goals based on the “normal” values of a younger man, I use the 20-30 age bracket numbers to guide my dosing decisions.

5. So, is 140mg enough? Probably, but that’s a personal decision based on your goals and how you feel. It happens to be the upper end of where I will go with my dosing. My go to dose is 125mg/week in an E3D protocol, but I’ve been known to push it to 140 if I am looking for enhanced performance in the gym or a strenuous physical event (e.g., an upcoming long-distance multi-day backpacking vacation).

[lbc2020]

At 100 per week (20 SHBG 10-70 normal) my trough was 460 and free t trough was middle normal range

At 140 free T was 700 (normal 155-650) or so

So I’m gonna go back to 140 and see how I feel

[zsub154]

@bmbrady77

Maybe you e already answered this (I didn’t go back and read the entire thread), but what does your diet and exercise routine look like?

“Feeling good”, doesn’t just happen, and will NEVER happen if the only remedy you have is optimizing hormones. The only thing this does is gives your body the tools it needs to recover. There is much more work to be done on your part to provide the proper materials and labor.

Also, remember that if you’re chasing the feel good, you’re chasing a ghost. Does that mean you never feel good? No, but what it does mean is that, even when you are completely on the right track, sometimes you’re just not going to feel great. You don’t achieve utopia and stay there. Save that pipe dream for the afterlife.

In the meantime, take life one day at a time and make the best you can out of whatever THIS day throws at you.

This is very true I guess sometimes I get frustrated because I was completely fine before this and I don’t see why the meds do not bring me back to normal and it gets frustrating when at the end of the day the only thing you know is your hormones are messed up and the meds do not bring you back to normal even after you spend all this money on these doctors. I have been trying my hardest to get stable for the past 3 years on the TRT stuff. I am not here for lifting weights or anything thing like that Im here because one day I woke up and my body didn’t eel right and me sex life basically went down the drain and I’m willing to pay what ever i need too but it seems like there is no doctor out there that can help me. Im starting to lose hope.

But I do need to start exercising and eating better I do agree with that but its difficult when I don’t even have the energy because of this hormone crap. For these past three years I ave been struggling with Energy/Errections/Sensitivity those threes things have been my biggest barrier and has changed my life in multiple ways

[zsub154]

@highpull

Yes, for six years, going on seven with the testosterone. Used AI for three years, felt fine with it, discontinued it after attending Neal Rouzier’s programs and have do well without it for three years. About 85% of my patients have been on the same protocol for years.

A three month experiment with an every two and a half day schedule was unremarkable, I felt no difference.

This is something I can only hope for In the past three years I have never been on a protocol longer then 5 months. Im not sure if its just my specific case thats very hard do deal with but I have yet fund a doctor that can help me.

If you don’t mind me asking what is your current protocol?

Another thing you stated “your patients” do you have a practice?

[zsub154]

@dextermorgan

200mg week has me better than I could ever imagined I could have been when I started TRT both mentally & physically. It’s like I went from being in a wheel chair to having the sickest bionic legs and fucking normal people up in the Olympics. I’m not overselling either. It’s been that much of a change. Granted I was retarded for a while and that was the worst period ever but after I stopped listening to the usual chorus of folks that are miserable themselves but yet give advice like it’s gospel I figured out the secret to TRT. The secret is “no one fucking knows what works for you” so I started trial and error and figured the shit out myself. I did every 20mg dosage increment and injection frequency and like with everything in life it happened to be the last one I tried. From then on it’s been a life I wake up thanking the (enter your God here) every morning for and believe me I was in a worse place than likely anyone here before TRT.

That all said, everyone I know personally that has tried 200mg and stayed on it for 6 months is happy.

That good. I like to hear thongs like when someone has found the rite path for them. It gives me so sort go hope.

I have a couple of questions that Im curious about that mite help me figure some things out?

So for your current protocol are you on anything else beside testosterone? The reason im asking is because im 31yrs/old and I usually have to take HCG along with it because I want children and Idk if that plays a role into me not feeling good sometimes. If your taking only testosterone it may be a little easier for you to control certain things because your only taking one medication. Which leads me to my next question. How much do you think TRT will effect my chances of having children?

Also if you don’t mind me asking what led you to taking TRT. I feel like certain guys have a better chance of feeling better because they may know at least what caused them to be on TRT rather then guys like me I guess something just went wrong in my body and I do not have the slightest clue of what it may be?

Before TRT what symptoms did you have ?

[zsub154]

@trtwuzup

I would really eliminate all the supplements. Just inject Testosterone. That’s it. And see what happens after a couple of months.

Supplements do cause issues.

I remember taking dhea and or preg and got bloating. Stopped it problem solved.

I took vit b12 in the morning could not sleep at night even with melatonin. Stopped b12 and I can sleep.

I would stop supplements. Maybe just take a multi vitamin to start.

Any medications you take?

This new doctor I have has me on these supplements and I do agree that have been certain things in the past that I would notice that would throw my body off. He also has me on a every three day protocol which I am going to email him today about switching that because my body has always doe better on at least every other day but even better on a every day protocol

Other then TRT I do not take any other meds this lot T is my only health issue

[zsub154]

@hardartery

185mg a week. I have been running once a week for a while now, and it seems to boost libido a little over twice a week - for me. My endo would like me to try 160mg a week, and I will probably give it a go to see. 200mg didn’t feel any different, but my numbers were above range and the endo was worried about HCT. I understand some guys would get all bent at this point about whether or not HCT matters, but seeing as it doesn’t make a bit of difference in how I feel so far it’s just working against myself to worry about it.

Do you only take testosterone or do you take anything else?

I was on 140mg a week before I met this new doctor and he told me that was way to much because at 140mg a week my blood levels were over a 1000 and he did not like that it was that high so he has me on 80mg a week. Now I will say this there has been only one postive change from his protocol and that is I am no longer massively sweating in my sleep anymore but to go to 140mg to 80mg he is taking me backwards. I don’t know what to do?

[zsub154]

Has anyone figured out what can help bring back sensitivity?

It is almost like it is dehydrated down there. The skin is very rubbery and very dry and I don’t know why is causes those specific type of changes down there

[zsub154]

@dextermorgan

The secret is “no one fucking knows what works for you” so I started trial and error and figured the shit out myself.

I really like this and I fully believe it. I am tired of wasting thousands of dollars and in return not getting the help that I need. Its just Im scared of what these meds are doing to my body in the long run and how it may affect me later down the road as I get older. But I really think I should just take the whole thing into my own hands

[zsub154]

@youthful55guy

• I bumped up my HCG from 150 IU MWF (450 IU/week) to 450 IU E3D (1050 IU/week).

I used the results of a dose-response experiment to dial in on my new standard dose. This protocol puts my Free T at about the upper end of the normal range for a 20-30 year old guy. This seems to work well for me to abate all low T symptoms.

So let me see if I got this rite you now take your HCG only on the days you inject Testosterone where as before you were injecting it MWF?

Can you explain to me what a dose-response experiment is?

How hard was it for you to get him to switch you from climid to HCG?

Have you every tried daily injections?

[zsub154]

Oh i see what the experiment is on the chart thanks.

So I a have a question what does your Free T stand at now? I think based off the chart it looks like you stand at 26pg.

I do not start to feel good until im at least 30.

I have another question when you want to manipulate where your Free T stands at which med do you change the testosterone or the HCG. Also how do you know when you need to change your HCG dosage instead of your testosterone dosage?

[zsub154]

Does anyone know why protocols work for me for about 3-4 months max and then lose all the good effects some people call this the honey moon phase of a protocol but Im not sure if i necessarily believe in those medical terms. has anyone else experienced this ?

[zsub154]

@youthful55guy I wonder why Dr.G is trying to decrease my dosage when it seems like peel do better on a higher dose

[hardartery]

@zsub154

Do you only take testosterone or do you take anything else?

I only rake testosterone. My trough total test is 850, give or take 10 points at this dose. 200mg puts me just over 1400, but that was on twice a week which gives a higher trough reading for obvious reasons.

[roscoe88]

@zsub154

Has anyone figured out what can help bring back sensitivity?

It is almost like it is dehydrated down there. The skin is very rubbery and very dry and I don’t know why is causes those specific type of changes down there

Are you sure you’re not just dehydrated or not eating enough?

Although i do notice at times my dong somewhat prunes up (best way to put it) during different times of my trt protocol. Could be high e2.