New Program

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

Hi guys. Pls critique my program.

It’s a 3 way split. Push, Pull and Legs. 4 main exercises with 1 ancillary.

Push

Incline Bench Press. 5 sets of 3-5 reps. 90secs rest.
Dumbell Pullover. 2 sets of 8-10 reps. 60secs rest. Failure in last set.
Dips. 2 sets to failure. 120secs rest.
Lateral Raise. 3 sets of 10-12. 30secs rest.
Smith Machine Calf Raises.

Pull.

Power Cleans. 5 sets of 2-4 reps. 90secs rest.
Bentover Rows. 2 sets of 6-8 reps. 90secs rest.
Pull Ups. 2 sets to failure. 120secs rest.
Shrugs. 3 sets of 8-10. 30secs rest.
Seated Calf

Legs

Single Leg Squats. 2 sets of 20. 30secs rest.
Deadlift. 3 sets of 3-6reps. 90-120secs rest.
Stiff Leg Deadlifts. 2 sets of 6-10reps. 60secs rest.
Leg Press. 3 sets of 6-8reps. 60secs rest. Failure in last set.
Crunches/V-ups. (Like a crunch but with legs out at 30degrees). 2 sets of 12-15 reps. 30secs rest.

What do ppl think? I feel stupid even asking this, but the guy I’ve been doing work experience with has really done my head in with his constant criticism.

I’ve been doing a personal training course and I’m about 2 months away from becoming qualified. For my work experience I was with a guy who’s kind of a HIT fan. The first time we worked out together. I was doing heavy incline presses, and stopped at 6 reps. He immediately started telling me i’d ‘wasted’ the entire set because I hadn’t reached failure etc etc.

To show me ‘the real way to train’ he trained me for the last 6 weeks. His programs are almost all machines, first set is to failure and most sets are drop sets, with very extended portions of negative work - you fail in the first set and are assisted every rep after that, going until you have nothing left. Then he drops the weight and you keep going until you have nothing again. Then he drops the weight again. Repeat. It’s very painful but quite fun. A side effect is after 20mins you’re fried and the workout is over at 30mins.

Now I’m done with work experience though, I’m having trouble designing my own program due to hearing the dude always saying how his way is the only way and my way (12-14 work sets, only failing in the last set of an exercise, if at all) is overtraining. Actually I think his words were ‘stupid’ (can’t hear too much of that!).

So this is what I worked out for myself yesterday. Pls critique. I’m not going to continue with the guy’s style of training because 1) you need a good spotter, which I don’t have access too and 2) I don’t think it’s ‘the only’ way. Variety is what will keep the gains coming.

It’s been a bit hard though, cos the guy was trying to brainwash me. I have my own ideas, but I learnt quite quickly not to talk to him about them, it just wasn’t worth the drama of him jumping up and down yelling about how he’d been doing it for 20years and had tried everything and this was the only way that worked etc etc etc.

Cheers & thanks for the help.

2

Couple of questions:

1.) How big was this guy? Was he gigantic due to his 20 years of super-bone-crunching-dehabilitating-giant-
forced-negative-drop sets?

2.) Did you put on any size during the time he trained you?

He sounds like a typical closed-minded HIT “disciple”. Just tell him that Mentzer himself didn’t believe that the only way to grow muscular was to go to failure, he just used it as a gauge.

It’s like Dan John and many, many others have said:

“Everything works…for six weeks or so.”

3

I wasted 2 years on HIT type workouts and had really miniscule gains and ended up injuring my back. While there are maybe some worthwhile incarnations of HIT, the theory behind it is basically worthless.

4

Yeah, he is quite big. Slightly overwieght, but that reflects more on his diet than his training. He is very strong however. I’ve seen him incline bench 100kgs, which is an impressive weight.

I did put on some size, but everything works for a while, so I expected too. As well, I hadn’t trained for a month or two beforehand, so my body was always going to respond well to any stimulus.

5

Sxio,

At first, I wanted to cut & paste lots and lots of info against HIT, but I eventually realized doing that won’t help you. I have read my share of HIT-related debates and even took part in some, and believe me, the HIT cultists will never listen. No matter how well you structure your argument, no matter how many links or references you provide… it’s like Chris Shugart says in his blog: they cover their ears and go LA LA LA :slight_smile:

The main problem with them, as far as I can tell, is that they don’t really know that much. Sure, your guy claims he tried everything under the sun but the reality is that he probably spent years doing Flex and M&F bullshit, and than when he “discovered” HIT, he thinks he’s seen the light. He has no clue about proper training and what real coaches like, say CT, Tate or Defranco do.

He has no clue about fitness-fatigue theory, or how one should manipulate volume and intensity etc. He doesn’t realize that sports physiology is a well researched topic and that there isn’t really anything “magical” about that last rep, as Mentzer used to say.

You can find plenty of ammo on this site, and a good place to start is CT’s “Trainig Quiz for Smart-asses” article. But, I can bet that any kind of argument from your side will be met with the usual HIT story how everything works for the genetically gifted and chemically enhanced. And in that same sentence, he will probably mention The Colorado Experiment and Casey Viator, who was in fact all-natural hardgainer. Yeah, right!

Hope this helps.

6

Your program looks fairly solid. I would suggest against failure training on any exercise, especially one a dangerous as pullovers. Loosing control/form on pullovers is a good way to hurt your shoulders. There is a plethora of information around the site as to why failure training is not a very good idea.

Other than that, you have a good selection of exercises. Just make sure you use heavy enough weights and eat a lot.

-Side note: 100Kg is about 225lbs. That is not very much weight, if we are talking about a 1RM. I can incline about 215, and my flat bench is only 275

7

Agreed. 225 as a max on the incline is shameful for 20 years of lifting experience. That is, unless the guy is 5’0, 130.

I still think the best way to learn about getting big and strong is to find some big, strong people and follow them around…

[quote]daven wrote:
Your program looks fairly solid. I would suggest against failure training on any exercise, especially one a dangerous as pullovers. Loosing control/form on pullovers is a good way to hurt your shoulders. There is a plethora of information around the site as to why failure training is not a very good idea.

Other than that, you have a good selection of exercises. Just make sure you use heavy enough weights and eat a lot.

-Side note: 100Kg is about 225lbs. That is not very much weight, if we are talking about a 1RM. I can incline about 215, and my flat bench is only 275[/quote]

8

I never said it was a 1rm guys.

We were there, he was saying he didn’t feel strong today. I said “well, I think this is too much weight, you might get out 2 or 3 but that’s all”

he said “you think so hey?” And did 10 unassisted reps. I think that’s pretty strong. So 100kgs is his 10rm. Actually, it would be a little more than that, cos he didn’t fail.

9

[quote]Sxio wrote:
I never said it was a 1rm guys.

We were there, he was saying he didn’t feel strong today. I said “well, I think this is too much weight, you might get out 2 or 3 but that’s all”

he said “you think so hey?” And did 10 unassisted reps. I think that’s pretty strong. So 100kgs is his 10rm. Actually, it would be a little more than that, cos he didn’t fail.
[/quote]

So the guy that made you do three drop sets all to eccentric failure, because it is the only thing that works, did not go to failure? Hypocrite, maybe? He has been training for 20 years and only inclined 225 lbs for 10 reps? I am sorry that this guy influenced you so much that you’re a bit worried about your program.

BTW, your plan looks real good, especially after being HIT hard for six weeks;)

Later

10

Next time you see that guy you should run! Not only is he talking pure garbage but he won’t even listen to you. Training to failure is a tool that can be used sparingly to make gains, not something you should do every workout of every week. Training beyond failure (forced reps, drop sets, negatives, all that bullshit…)
should be used even less.

Read some of the articles posted on this site by CW and CT. You will find much better routines than that guy recommends. BTW, your routine looks pretty good.

11

Cheers guys. Thanks for that. I know it’s stupid but he really had me doubting my old programs.

He didn’t fail that day because we’d been hitting the massive failure stuff for a good month + beforehand, he did realise that training like that exclusively would cause overtraining. But he’d argue black and blue that the best gains would be made when going back to the failure stuff.

I like waterbury but I have to admit, I couldn’t understand his last wrkout. 60 sets in one day!!!

He influenced my decision to put in a low reps exercise on every day though. I also like thibadeau’s stuff too.

Thanks for the feedback. And damn am I smashed from power cleans yesterday. My back feels like it’s caste iron. It’s great!

My gf poked me in the trap before and I yelped. I’ve definitely done some good destruction in there.