While the world is full of racism I do not see how desscribing some basketball players as thugs is any more racist than describing hockey players as goons.
[quote]emdawgz1 wrote:
Actually it was originally directed @ YoMomma, who declared the 72-73 Kincks best ever.
However, the 90’s bulls couldnt have beaten any of the teams i highlighted.
1993 Bulls
Jordan, Pippen,Ho Grant, Cartwright(Invisi-Bill), BJ Armstrong.
VS
1984
Bird, Parrish, Mchale, Johnson, Ainge
No contest, imho
or
1985 Lakers
Kareem, worthy, magic, scott, cooper!
Bulls can go home[/quote]
We can all argue with good points on who was the “best team ever”, but never be able to convince the other person to come on over and see it the way we do. Why is this, you say? Fans of great sports teams, past and present have many emotional attachments to their favourites, for various reasons besides the fact the the players are talented and the team functions like a well-oiled machine. So the 72-73 Knicks won another NBA title that year, great. I was fortunate enough to be at a few games back then and sit close enough to the court to almost feel the heat and see Frazier sweat. It never got any better for me.
Trajan Langdon scored 17 points (He was cut by the Clip’s in training camp several years ago) leading the Euro club champs CSKA Moscow to a 94-75 victory over the Los Angeles Clippers.
Ouch.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Trajan Langdon scored 17 points (He was cut by the Clip’s in training camp several years ago) leading the Euro club champs CSKA Moscow to a 94-75 victory over the Los Angeles Clippers.
Ouch.
[/quote]
Shoulda never cut the Alaskan Assassin!
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
UtahLama wrote:
Trajan Langdon scored 17 points (He was cut by the Clip’s in training camp several years ago) leading the Euro club champs CSKA Moscow to a 94-75 victory over the Los Angeles Clippers.
Ouch.
Shoulda never cut the Alaskan Assassin!
[/quote]
My favorite quote after the game was from Corey Maggette:
“I’d love to come back and play these guys when we’re definitely in shape to show them what we can do.”
Um you are a pro athlete who get’s paid multi-millions a year, is it too much to ask you to train like a mad man in the off season and come back better than at the end of the previous season?
I mean, your job is to be in shape, right?
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
I mean, your job is to be in shape, right?
[/quote]
Unfortunately, in the NBA’s world of guaranteed contracts, for most of the guys it means you only need to be in shape for your contract year. Some of the improvements the guys make physically is ridiculous before their contract years.
The NFL it’s a lot easier to see because the contracts aren’t guaranteed- only the signing bonuses are. So guys that show up out of shape just get cut, so I think on a whole the NFL players are working out harder in the off-season.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
UtahLama wrote:
I mean, your job is to be in shape, right?
Unfortunately, in the NBA’s world of guaranteed contracts, for most of the guys it means you only need to be in shape for your contract year. Some of the improvements the guys make physically is ridiculous before their contract years.
The NFL it’s a lot easier to see because the contracts aren’t guaranteed- only the signing bonuses are. So guys that show up out of shape just get cut, so I think on a whole the NFL players are working out harder in the off-season.[/quote]
Very, very true.
Phil Jackson said in one of his books that it took him nearly 3 years to get the players to understand Tex Winter’s Triangle Offense.
Nowadays, the majority of the players would be gone in that time chasing the dollars.
Imagine if Pippen decided he wanted to be the franchise player, we wouldn’t have witnessed such an awesome team.
The 80’s and 90’s were the ultimate and it will take some loyal ballers to make it anything like those glory days.
[quote]Man O’ War wrote:
Phil Jackson said in one of his books that it took him nearly 3 years to get the players to understand Tex Winter’s Triangle Offense.
Nowadays, the majority of the players would be gone in that time chasing the dollars.
Imagine if Pippen decided he wanted to be the franchise player, we wouldn’t have witnessed such an awesome team.
The 80’s and 90’s were the ultimate and it will take some loyal ballers to make it anything like those glory days. [/quote]
Umm… didn’t Phil Jackson win a couple more titles just a few years ago… with a different team… with different players?
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Umm… didn’t Phil Jackson win a couple more titles just a few years ago… with a different team… with different players?
[/quote]
Perhaps that says a lot about the league today. It took him 3 years to get the Bulls to a level of teamwork that won their first title.
They had to overcome some seriously tough teams to do so. The Pistons and Knicks where tight-knit teams with years of work going into their foundation.
Maybe individual efforts are winning Championships in recent times.
[quote]Man O’ War wrote:
Maybe individual efforts are winning Championships in recent times.
[/quote]
How’d those Bulls do during MJ’s year off?
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
How’d those Bulls do during MJ’s year off?
[/quote]
Got bailed out by the Knicks from memory.
Clearly he was the best player on the team, but it was the team support he got that made them a Championship team 6 times.
[quote]Man O’ War wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
How’d those Bulls do during MJ’s year off?
Got bailed out by the Knicks from memory.
Clearly he was the best player on the team, but it was the team support he got that made them a Championship team 6 times.[/quote]
I just find it amusing that you are using the Bulls as an example of a team. For fuck’s sake, Jordan has the highest scoring average of all time- and it ain’t because his shooting percentage was that high!
The '93 Bulls had four players who averaged over 6 points per game. The '06 Mavericks had seven. The '06 Heat had eight. The '06 Suns had TEN!
I think it’s an accurate statement to say that teams nowadays generally use a more balanced attack, especially since the advent of the zone rule.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
This idea that rich black men make me or anyone else uncomfortable is stupid.[/quote]
No, it is not.
[quote]Young black men were playing back in the 80’s and 90’s as well. I said I quit watching because, in my opinion, the game is booring, lacks teamwork, and I just can’t stand the attitudes of a lot of today’s players.
I also said the league is hurting because of it’s player’s image. They are considered the least popular among all pro athletes. Why is that? It has NOTHING to do with race. It’s about attitude.[/quote]
Defense actually exists now, which would require more cohesive teamwork than what existed before. One person can take over the game on offense, defense is a team effort.
You can’t stand the attitude of the players. The players have a shitty image. Do you think any other sport is better? The NFL is full of “thugs”, but because Peyton Manning and Tom Brady get multiple advertisements from gigantic companies, while the rapist formerly known as Kobe gets some ‘hate me’ Nike commercial and NBA players get shitty ‘ghetto’ shoe commercials they’re the only ones you, and the public, perceive as thugs. Dwayne Wade is as much a golden boy as Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, as far as I’m concerned.
There is no more shitty attitude from basketball than any other sport. Barry Bonds is a jackass and half of the big time hitters over the last 10 years have been juiced and Terrell Owens has narcissistic personality disorder. Give me some names of young black thugs who ruin the reputation of the NBA and I’ll give you two from baseball and football who do the same. Basketball is smaller, the vocal minority in a smaller group will stand out more than in a larger group.
As for it being all about the money- I don’t really comprehend how you could think that in your mind and then bring yourself to type it when the MLBPA is the single greediest labor organization known to man. They’re miles worse than the UAW. The NBA lockout lasted half a season, the MLB and NHL lockouts only years before, and the MLB lockout wiped out the postseason. Tom Brady isn’t the only one to take a pay hit for his team in an attempt to win, I’d like to cite you Kevin Garnett. How about Shaq taking a 25 million pay cut last season so the Heat could get more talent? Yeah, it’s all about money in the NBA, when the other sports are paragons of virtue.
They’re considered the least popular amongst all athletes is fucking spin. And you continually saying it is like a politician continually saying the majority of the American people support X to back yourself up. It doesn’t matter what they support if they’re misinformed or uninformed.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I just find it amusing that you are using the Bulls as an example of a team. For fuck’s sake, Jordan has the highest scoring average of all time- and it ain’t because his shooting percentage was that high!
The '93 Bulls had four players who averaged over 6 points per game. The '06 Mavericks had seven. The '06 Heat had eight. The '06 Suns had TEN!
I think it’s an accurate statement to say that teams nowadays generally use a more balanced attack, especially since the advent of the zone rule.[/quote]
‘In basketball, this is an especially tricky problem. Today’s NBA players have a dazzling array of individual moves, most of which they learned from coaches who encourage one-on-one play… The skewed reward system in the NBA only makes matters worse. Superstars with dramatic, eye catching moves are paid vast sums of money, while players who contribute to the team effort in less flamboyant ways often make close to the minimum salary. As a result, few players come to the NBA dreaming of becoming good team players.’
An excerpt from Phil Jackson’s ‘Sacred Hoops’.
Today’s players are completely about themselves before the team. The obscene amounts of money they can earn makes sure of that.
I miss the rivalry of the 80’s and 90’s where players generally stayed at the same team or a maximum of 2.
I still love the game, but I think the Bulls games v the Pistons or Knicks in the Bulls Glory days will take a long time to be rivaled IMO.
[quote]Man O’ War wrote:
‘In basketball, this is an especially tricky problem. Today’s NBA players have a dazzling array of individual moves, most of which they learned from coaches who encourage one-on-one play… The skewed reward system in the NBA only makes matters worse. Superstars with dramatic, eye catching moves are paid vast sums of money, while players who contribute to the team effort in less flamboyant ways often make close to the minimum salary. As a result, few players come to the NBA dreaming of becoming good team players.’
An excerpt from Phil Jackson’s ‘Sacred Hoops’.
Today’s players are completely about themselves before the team. The obscene amounts of money they can earn makes sure of that.
I miss the rivalry of the 80’s and 90’s where players generally stayed at the same team or a maximum of 2.
I still love the game, but I think the Bulls games v the Pistons or Knicks in the Bulls Glory days will take a long time to be rivaled IMO.
[/quote]
The more you post, the more it shows me that you know nothing about the NBA today.
“Few players come to the NBA with dreams of being good team players.”
No shit! Who the fuck dreams of being a role player? I don’t know about you, but when me and my friends played basketball in our driveway, we pretended we were Michael Jordan, not Bill Wennington.
The funny thing is, the overpaid players in the NBA are NOT the superstars. There’s a salary max in the NBA, so the top players are getting no where near their value. The overpaid players are the players that have one good year and some dumb GM way overpays for them.
And another thing, I disgree that star players change teams more often than they used to.
Let’s look at the 2006 NBA All-Star game and see how those players have moved around:
Eastern Conference:
Allen Iverson- Same team he was drafted as
Dwayne Wade- Same team he was drafted as
Lebron James- Same team he was drafted as
Jermaine O’neal- Played for two teams
Shaquille O’neal- Played for three teams
Chauncey Billups- Played for five teams, didn’t become a star until he was with Detroit though
Chris Bosh- Same team he was drafted as
Vince Carter- Second team
Rip Hamilton- Second team
Paul Pierce- Drafted as a Celtic
Ben Wallace- Pistons were his third team, although he just got traded to the Bulls. Wasn’t a star until he was with the Pistons though
Rasheed Wallace- 4th team
Gilbert Arenas- Second team
Western Conference
Steve Nash- 2nd team, although he has been traded twice since he started with the Suns
Kobe Bryant- Same team that drafted him
Tracy McGrady- Second team
Tim Duncan- Same team
Yao Ming- Same team
Ray Allen- Second team he played for. He was drafted by Minnesota, but traded on draft day before he even put on a uniform, so I’m going to count this as two.
Elton Brand- Second team
Kevin Garnet- Same team
Paul Gasol- Same team
Shawn Marion- Same team
Dirk Nowitski- Same team, like Allen he was traded on draft day
Tony Parker- Same team, although he played professionally in Europe for a while
So of all the 2006 NBA All-Stars, 25 of the 29 have been with the same team or only two teams for their career.
11 out of 23 of the 1988 All-Stars could say that.
14 out of 24 of the 1989 All-Stars could say that.
16 out of 25 of the 1990 All-Stars could say that.
12 out of 25 of the 1991 All-Stars could say that.
Now, I will admit that that statistic is biased because the players of today have not finished out their career and there are likely to be a few that get traded or bounce around in their last couple years trying to hang on, as players always do.
But to say that players stuck with the same team in the 80s and 90s is just dumb.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
The more you post, the more it shows me that you know nothing about the NBA today.
[/quote]
I’ll admit to not watching anywhere near what I used to. I love the sport but the NBA bores the living shit out of me. So I admit to being part of that 31% ratings drop.
A team player is not necessarily a role player. The greatest players are the ones who lift their team up another level and bring them all into the game.
That is an interesting statistic but my opinion is that basketball was in its peak back then and it has a long way to go if they want those missing 31% ratings back.
[quote]Man O’ War wrote:
That is an interesting statistic but my opinion is that basketball was in its peak back then and it has a long way to go if they want those missing 31% ratings back. [/quote]
I actually agree with you there.
I think there is more talent in the league then ever before but I honestly think that officiating is slowly crippling the league.
I’ve always been more of a college fan, but I follow the NBA just to follow my favorite college players.
Re-reading my post, I kinda came off like a jerk. I didn’t mean any offense- I just get heated in debate sometimes!
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I think there is more talent in the league then ever before but I honestly think that officiating is slowly crippling the league.
[/quote]
There is definetly more talent now. The depth is significantly changing the game. Bench players are stronger than the ones of the 80’s and 90’s for sure.
Agreed. College games are far more interesting to me than the pros. For football and basketball.
[quote]
Re-reading my post, I kinda came off like a jerk. I didn’t mean any offense- I just get heated in debate sometimes![/quote]
No need to worry about that.