New NBA Ball

Off Topic
81

[quote]Niko wrote:
Growing up I watched guys playing injured, now days guys are out of lineups with jock itch…wtf! [/quote]

Blah blah, guys were so much tougher back in my day, blah blah.

Terrell Owens (love him or hate him) played in the Super Bowl despite not being cleared by his doctor- and I believe at the risk of having his contract voided, I could be wrong there.

Curt Schilling pitched with blood dripping out of his ankle with severe long term risks.

For Christ’s sake, when he was in college Byron Leftwich once BROKE HIS LEG in a game and still stayed in. His lineman had to pick him up and carry him downfield to the huddle and he had to take everything from the shotgun because he couldn’t even drop back.

It’s not even a comparison that players today are more dedicated to their sport than players of “yesteryear.” More selfish, without a doubt- but they are without a doubt more dedicated as well.

82

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Niko wrote:

It’s not even a comparison that players today are more dedicated to their sport than players of “yesteryear.” More selfish, without a doubt- but they are without a doubt more dedicated as well.[/quote]

You must be joking, right? That’s probably the most immature thing said on this whole thread. You pay me $500,000 per game and hell yes, I’d be out there with broken limbs.

How about the guys back in the 50’s and 60’s who played for minimal pay, had no medical insurance, no retirement plans, and usually had to take off-season jobs selling cars or working construction. You know nothing about the history of pro sports. These “old timers” played 100% for the love of the game, not because of money.

When I see a guy holding out because he wants an extra $1million added to his already $45million contract, he’s not dedicated to the game, he’s greedy. Don’t fool yourself, it’s all about the money these days. Read a book about pro sports back in the 50’s and 60’s and tell me they didn’t play 100% for the love of the game.

Imagine being a hockey goalie, making about what a teacher makes, and not wearing a mask in goal. Or playing football without a facemask on Sunday, then going to work at the factory on Monday just to pay the bills. Todays atheletes are million dollar babies. They don’t play until someone shows them the Benjamins.

I still can’t believe you made that statement. Kids…

83

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Niko wrote:
Growing up I watched guys playing injured, now days guys are out of lineups with jock itch…wtf!

Blah blah, guys were so much tougher back in my day, blah blah.

Terrell Owens (love him or hate him) played in the Super Bowl despite not being cleared by his doctor- and I believe at the risk of having his contract voided, I could be wrong there.

Curt Schilling pitched with blood dripping out of his ankle with severe long term risks.

For Christ’s sake, when he was in college Byron Leftwich once BROKE HIS LEG in a game and still stayed in. His lineman had to pick him up and carry him downfield to the huddle and he had to take everything from the shotgun because he couldn’t even drop back.

It’s not even a comparison that players today are more dedicated to their sport than players of “yesteryear.” More selfish, without a doubt- but they are without a doubt more dedicated as well.[/quote]

Steve Mcnair, played half a season w/ a fractured sternum.
Having lived with this i can tell you it hurt to breathe, laughing almost made me pass out.

Mcnair didnt do that for money.

84

[quote]PGJ wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Niko wrote:

It’s not even a comparison that players today are more dedicated to their sport than players of “yesteryear.” More selfish, without a doubt- but they are without a doubt more dedicated as well.

You must be joking, right? That’s probably the most immature thing said on this whole thread. You pay me $500,000 per game and hell yes, I’d be out there with broken limbs.

How about the guys back in the 50’s and 60’s who played for minimal pay, had no medical insurance, no retirement plans, and usually had to take off-season jobs selling cars or working construction. You know nothing about the history of pro sports. These “old timers” played 100% for the love of the game, not because of money.

When I see a guy holding out because he wants an extra $1million added to his already $45million contract, he’s not dedicated to the game, he’s greedy. Don’t fool yourself, it’s all about the money these days. Read a book about pro sports back in the 50’s and 60’s and tell me they didn’t play 100% for the love of the game.

Imagine being a hockey goalie, making about what a teacher makes, and not wearing a mask in goal. Or playing football without a facemask on Sunday, then going to work at the factory on Monday just to pay the bills. Todays atheletes are million dollar babies. They don’t play until someone shows them the Benjamins.

I still can’t believe you made that statement. Kids…

[/quote]

You obviously don’t have any idea what goes on in professional sports these days. I mean, you made my point for me!

In the 50s and 60s, guys had second jobs, there’s no way you can be as dedicated to the game if you have a second job! Did I say players nowadays LOVE the game more now? No.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that no player ever was or ever will be totally motivated by the love of the game. That’s just fucking retarded. Even in the 50s and 60s professional athletes played for the glory and the status that was involved in being a professional athlete. In the college game (where they all came from), things were A LOT worse then they are now. Granted, violations are still occuring all the time now, but being such a knowledgeable man I’m sure you know all about how Bud Wilkinson got all of his talent to Oklahoma to win those games.

Let’s add to the examples that have already been used:

Troy Aikman and Steve Young playing through wayyy too many concussions to count.

Jerome Bettis being so beat up by the end of his career that he was unable to even get out of bed the day afterwards.

Jerry Rice, having more money then God, hanging around for way too long because he just couldn’t bring himself to quit.

Tim Duncan and Allen Iverson playing through back injuries that the lesser versions that I experienced had me crippled with pain.

How about every single NFL lineman that has to weigh over 300 pounds to be competitive, despite the fact that half of them die by the time they’re 50!

Your argument about how players are only concerned with money nowadays is inherently flawed. As soon as a good deal of these players sign their first contract, they have enough money to last them for the rest of their lives. Do you think Shaq or Dirk Nowitski is playing because they got bills to pay? I think that ship sailed a while ago my friend. The reason players hold out is a lot of times (not all the time, because there are certainly some selfish ones) is because of pressure from outside sources to make more money to support their entourage- agent, friends, family, etc. I’ll ask you another question, how much point shaving do you think is going on in professional sports nowadays? I can guarantee it’s less than before! That wasn’t even my main argument though.

My main argument is that players are more DEDICATED to the game nowadays. You can’t be fully dedicated if you’re working on a construction site in the off-season!!! I have read TONS of books and accounts of old-time football and basketball, I LOVE learning about the history of these games and how they evolved. If you also did, you can tell me how many of those guys were working out in the off-season like Tiki Barber does? About… 0! Find out how many of those guys hired personal chefs to make sure that every meal they ate was helping them become a better player.

Just face it, you are stuck in the past and the fact that black guys with cornrows, tatoos and baggy pants (which to you seems to denote a thug or a criminal) are making a ton of money and it bothers you- just like it bothers about a million other old, whitebread people that have stopped watching the NBA.

85

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
PGJ wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Niko wrote:

It’s not even a comparison that players today are more dedicated to their sport than players of “yesteryear.” More selfish, without a doubt- but they are without a doubt more dedicated as well.

You must be joking, right? That’s probably the most immature thing said on this whole thread. You pay me $500,000 per game and hell yes, I’d be out there with broken limbs.

How about the guys back in the 50’s and 60’s who played for minimal pay, had no medical insurance, no retirement plans, and usually had to take off-season jobs selling cars or working construction. You know nothing about the history of pro sports. These “old timers” played 100% for the love of the game, not because of money.

When I see a guy holding out because he wants an extra $1million added to his already $45million contract, he’s not dedicated to the game, he’s greedy. Don’t fool yourself, it’s all about the money these days. Read a book about pro sports back in the 50’s and 60’s and tell me they didn’t play 100% for the love of the game.

Imagine being a hockey goalie, making about what a teacher makes, and not wearing a mask in goal. Or playing football without a facemask on Sunday, then going to work at the factory on Monday just to pay the bills. Todays atheletes are million dollar babies. They don’t play until someone shows them the Benjamins.

I still can’t believe you made that statement. Kids…

You obviously don’t have any idea what goes on in professional sports these days. I mean, you made my point for me!

In the 50s and 60s, guys had second jobs, there’s no way you can be as dedicated to the game if you have a second job! Did I say players nowadays LOVE the game more now? No.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that no player ever was or ever will be totally motivated by the love of the game. That’s just fucking retarded. Even in the 50s and 60s professional athletes played for the glory and the status that was involved in being a professional athlete. In the college game (where they all came from), things were A LOT worse then they are now. Granted, violations are still occuring all the time now, but being such a knowledgeable man I’m sure you know all about how Bud Wilkinson got all of his talent to Oklahoma to win those games.

Let’s add to the examples that have already been used:

Troy Aikman and Steve Young playing through wayyy too many concussions to count.

Jerome Bettis being so beat up by the end of his career that he was unable to even get out of bed the day afterwards.

Jerry Rice, having more money then God, hanging around for way too long because he just couldn’t bring himself to quit.

Tim Duncan and Allen Iverson playing through back injuries that the lesser versions that I experienced had me crippled with pain.

How about every single NFL lineman that has to weigh over 300 pounds to be competitive, despite the fact that half of them die by the time they’re 50!

Your argument about how players are only concerned with money nowadays is inherently flawed. As soon as a good deal of these players sign their first contract, they have enough money to last them for the rest of their lives. Do you think Shaq or Dirk Nowitski is playing because they got bills to pay? I think that ship sailed a while ago my friend. The reason players hold out is a lot of times (not all the time, because there are certainly some selfish ones) is because of pressure from outside sources to make more money to support their entourage- agent, friends, family, etc. I’ll ask you another question, how much point shaving do you think is going on in professional sports nowadays? I can guarantee it’s less than before! That wasn’t even my main argument though.

My main argument is that players are more DEDICATED to the game nowadays. You can’t be fully dedicated if you’re working on a construction site in the off-season!!! I have read TONS of books and accounts of old-time football and basketball, I LOVE learning about the history of these games and how they evolved. If you also did, you can tell me how many of those guys were working out in the off-season like Tiki Barber does? About… 0! Find out how many of those guys hired personal chefs to make sure that every meal they ate was helping them become a better player.

Just face it, you are stuck in the past and the fact that black guys with cornrows, tatoos and baggy pants (which to you seems to denote a thug or a criminal) are making a ton of money and it bothers you- just like it bothers about a million other old, whitebread people that have stopped watching the NBA.[/quote]

Good Lord, you completely missed my point. Those old timers worked second jobs because pro ball payed squat. They got their ass kicked all season, just like the guys today, but for about what a teacher would make now. And they came back season after season. An dwhen they got injured, oh well. No union to help, no insurance, no HUGE bonuses or salaries to live on for the rest of their lives.

Please drop the racist comments.

86

No I got your point, it’s just not valid.

Let me repeat:

I totally agree that pro players had it harder than the players of today. I’m simply asserting that there is a lot more to being a professional athlete nowadays and players today, as a whole, are more dedicated to becoming better players than the players of the past- probably BECAUSE there’s more money at stake.

I also disagree that players of today have less love for the game. I can only speak anecdotally of one guy who I know personally who is playing D1 basketball at the highest level, although I doubt he’ll go pro because he’s probably too small. I was good friends with him in 7th and 8th grade and a day didn’t go by that he wasn’t bugging me to get into the gym and play basketball before school and after school.

I would drop the racist comments if it wasn’t something that you’ve been constantly referring to throughout the thread.

87

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:

Good Lord, you completely missed my point. Those old timers worked second jobs because pro ball payed squat. They got their ass kicked all season, just like the guys today, but for about what a teacher would make now. And they came back season after season. An dwhen they got injured, oh well. No union to help, no insurance, no HUGE bonuses or salaries to live on for the rest of their lives.

Please drop the racist comments.

No I got your point, it’s just not valid.

Let me repeat:

I totally agree that pro players had it harder than the players of today. I’m simply asserting that there is a lot more to being a professional athlete nowadays and players today, as a whole, are more dedicated to becoming better players than the players of the past- probably BECAUSE there’s more money at stake.

I also disagree that players of today have less love for the game. I can only speak anecdotally of one guy who I know personally who is playing D1 basketball at the highest level, although I doubt he’ll go pro because he’s probably too small. I was good friends with him in 7th and 8th grade and a day didn’t go by that he wasn’t bugging me to get into the gym and play basketball before school and after school.

I would drop the racist comments if it wasn’t something that you’ve been constantly referring to throughout the thread.
[/quote]

Please point out ONE racist comment I have made. Was it the “thug” thing? Is that term somehow racist? Did I refer to a color? Does the term “thug” have a racial connotation? Please educate me.

88

[quote]PGJ wrote:
I look at the NBA now and all I see are mostly shit-talking, low class thugs who are one step above street-ball.
[/quote]

[quote]PGJ wrote:
It’s immage is a league of selfish criminals who speak like pimps and dress the same. It’s all about the Benjamin’s, baby.

I can’t even watch it anymore. The league tried to enforce a dress code, but the pimps pitched a fit. Straight-up ghetto now.
[/quote]

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Allen “I beat up my own coach and I have to wear this stocking on my arm to cover my gang tattoos” Iverson
[/quote]

[quote]PGJ wrote:
To the casual observer, I THINK the NBA comes off as a league of thugs.
[/quote]

In my opinion, yes the word “thug” DOES have a racial connotation and when you call a leage where by far the majority of players are black a “league of thugs”, say that the “pimps” (a word that also has a racial connotation) got mad and the league is going “straight ghetto” (another term that certainly has a racial connotation) you definitly give off that kind of second-generation racist vibe where you have no problem with the clean-cut, quiet black people, but when they dress or act in a way that you don’t think is humble and reserved, you have a a prolem with that.

However, I DO realize that it is easy to make a mistake and misjudge people’s intention on the internet.

So I will simply say that you give off the “I’m not going to use the word black so I’m just going to use words that are often stereotypes of black people so when they play the race card I can say that I never used the word black” vibe- and I’d be surprised if I’m the only one here who feels that way.

Sorry if I’ve misjudged and insulted you, but that’s just the feeling I get.

89

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I’d be surprised if I’m the only one here who feels that way.[/quote]

You aren’t the only one, however, I know I don’t feel like getting into an argument over semantics when people like to play the types of games I have seen on this board when it comes to these same terms and their social meaning. It seems many people are completely clueless on what these words are related to, what they mean, and how they will be perceived by others.

90

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
PGJ wrote:
I look at the NBA now and all I see are mostly shit-talking, low class thugs who are one step above street-ball.

PGJ wrote:
It’s immage is a league of selfish criminals who speak like pimps and dress the same. It’s all about the Benjamin’s, baby.

I can’t even watch it anymore. The league tried to enforce a dress code, but the pimps pitched a fit. Straight-up ghetto now.

PGJ wrote:
Allen “I beat up my own coach and I have to wear this stocking on my arm to cover my gang tattoos” Iverson

PGJ wrote:
To the casual observer, I THINK the NBA comes off as a league of thugs.

In my opinion, yes the word “thug” DOES have a racial connotation and when you call a leage where by far the majority of players are black a “league of thugs”, say that the “pimps” (a word that also has a racial connotation) got mad and the league is going “straight ghetto” (another term that certainly has a racial connotation) you definitly give off that kind of second-generation racist vibe where you have no problem with the clean-cut, quiet black people, but when they dress or act in a way that you don’t think is humble and reserved, you have a a prolem with that.

However, I DO realize that it is easy to make a mistake and misjudge people’s intention on the internet.

So I will simply say that you give off the “I’m not going to use the word black so I’m just going to use words that are often stereotypes of black people so when they play the race card I can say that I never used the word black” vibe- and I’d be surprised if I’m the only one here who feels that way.

Sorry if I’ve misjudged and insulted you, but that’s just the feeling I get.[/quote]

Ok, if those words are racial I apologize. I had no idea we were so PC here. However, are my comments inaccurate? No. The league has identified it’s “street” image (both in clothing style and player conduct) as a problem and it’s players are considered the least popular among pro athletes.

Just yesterday a group of NBA players got into a gun fight outside a strip club. The big fight in Detroit is just one example of how player behavior has turned fans off. For what it’s worth, I don’t watch hockey either because of how it encourages fights. Maybe I’m an old fashion sports purists, just shut-up and play. Be a good citizen and good role model. Why is that so hard?

91

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Maybe I’m an old fashion sports purists, just shut-up and play. Be a good citizen and good role model. Why is that so hard?
[/quote]

Yeah, I definitly feel you there and it bothers me when I see stuff like that.

I just try to appreciate the game for the talent the players have and the display of the game. Is Terrell Owens a fucking assclown? Yep. Do I still like watching him play? Yep.

If I want a role model on what my body should look and perform like and how to be a monster on the field, I watch the NFL. If I want a role model on how to live life, I go talk to my father.

92

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Maybe I’m an old fashion sports purists, just shut-up and play. Be a good citizen and good role model. Why is that so hard?

Yeah, I definitly feel you there and it bothers me when I see stuff like that.

I just try to appreciate the game for the talent the players have and the display of the game. Is Terrell Owens a fucking assclown? Yep. Do I still like watching him play? Yep.

If I want a role model on what my body should look and perform like and how to be a monster on the field, I watch the NFL. If I want a role model on how to live life, I go talk to my father.[/quote]

Unfotunately, many kids don’t have fathers to look up to so they look to sports personalities. I wish more pros would realize this and accept their defacto role as athelete and role model. It kills me when I hear of a million dollar athelete say he doesn’t want to be a role model to justify his bad behavior.

93

[quote]PGJ wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Maybe I’m an old fashion sports purists, just shut-up and play. Be a good citizen and good role model. Why is that so hard?

Yeah, I definitly feel you there and it bothers me when I see stuff like that.

I just try to appreciate the game for the talent the players have and the display of the game. Is Terrell Owens a fucking assclown? Yep. Do I still like watching him play? Yep.

If I want a role model on what my body should look and perform like and how to be a monster on the field, I watch the NFL. If I want a role model on how to live life, I go talk to my father.

Unfotunately, many kids don’t have fathers to look up to so they look to sports personalities. I wish more pros would realize this and accept their defacto role as athelete and role model. It kills me when I hear of a million dollar athelete say he doesn’t want to be a role model to justify his bad behavior.
[/quote]

I wish society would stop expecting some guy who more than likely grew up in a dysfunctional home himself to instantly become a role model to a world full of children just because he can play basketball well. That IS the job of guardians, teachers, and even regular church attendees. It is NOT the job of the guy who got drafted into the NBA at age 20 from a single parent household and near poverty who hasn’t even figured out his own life yet.

94

[quote]Professor X wrote:
PGJ wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Maybe I’m an old fashion sports purists, just shut-up and play. Be a good citizen and good role model. Why is that so hard?

Yeah, I definitly feel you there and it bothers me when I see stuff like that.

I just try to appreciate the game for the talent the players have and the display of the game. Is Terrell Owens a fucking assclown? Yep. Do I still like watching him play? Yep.

If I want a role model on what my body should look and perform like and how to be a monster on the field, I watch the NFL. If I want a role model on how to live life, I go talk to my father.

Unfotunately, many kids don’t have fathers to look up to so they look to sports personalities. I wish more pros would realize this and accept their defacto role as athelete and role model. It kills me when I hear of a million dollar athelete say he doesn’t want to be a role model to justify his bad behavior.

I wish society would stop expecting some guy who more than likely grew up in a dysfunctional home himself to instantly become a role model to a world full of children just because he can play basketball well. That IS the job of guardians, teachers, and even regular church attendees. It is NOT the job of the guy who got drafted into the NBA at age 20 from a single parent household and near poverty who hasn’t even figured out his own life yet.[/quote]

You are right in a perfect world, however as long as we worship athletes they will always be looked up to by our youth. Yes, they are only disfunctional human beings like the rest of us, however they know what they are getting into when they accept the multi-million dollar contract. To them, life is on a silver platter. They can do anything they want. I don’t think it’s too much to ask that they behave and act like adults. I mean you and I pay their salary, literally. They are entertainers. They are hired for their ability to help their team win which puts more people in the stands which means more money for the owners. Every single pro athlete can name a player or two they looked up to when they were little. These guys are millionaires, if they have personal problems go see a counselor. These guys should have no problems. Instead many of them surround themselves with strap-hanger “friends” or invent some flashy, arrogant persona and get in trouble. Too much money, too little brains. I think all pro sports leagues realize that their players are role models wether they want to be or not. That’s why the NBA is trying to do some damage control and get their good image back.

95

[quote]PGJ wrote:
These guys should have no problems.

[/quote]

You can’t be serious with this statement. While no one is excusing blatant illegal behavior, to think that money solves all problems is pretty ridiculous. It simply opens the door for a different set of problems. I wonder how many of those who think athletes should be near perfect in their personal lives would handle not being able to know if your friends are really your friends, or if they are all just there for the money. What about whether that girl their going out with actually truly gives a shit about them as a person or whether they are more interested in their wallet and the cameras going off?

I would imagine that there are quite a few issues that provide greater stress than some may deal with…even though they have a really large house and several cars to go home to.

I simply think parents need to step up and be the role models. They need to be the ones showing the right way to do things so that a kid doesn’t have to look to an impersonal celebrity for some type of guidance. While fame is something many people dream about, the people in that light should NOT be providing the foundation for what a child believes in.

Once people stop trying to label these men and women as role models for their own kids, maybe we can stop some of the witch hunts going on in sports as we speak that don’t seem to be doing anything but ruining lives and wasting money.

96

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Everyone knows Shaq and what team he plays for.

[/quote]

I don’t know what team he plays for. : D

97

The problem with the NBA’s image is the sport of basketball. Compare it to the current most popular spot in America, being football, and you see the differences, and why people can single out players who have a ‘bad attitude’ or get arrested.

Basketball has 5 guys on the court. The NFL has 3 units of 11 players that play alternating positions based on possession. Basketball? 12 man active roster, 3 reserves. Football? 53.

PGJ, Do you know how many members of the Cincinnati Bengals have been arrested this year?

Football markets something basketball does not: the team.

Yes, there are players who get singled out with endorsements, but the NFL actively markets a team, and it is capable of doing so because of the style of the game. One player can propel you, but one player will not actively make or break every single game. One player in football is not the team when he only plays on one side of the ball. In basketball, many teams are defined by one player, who can carry them and is superior to all others on the team.

When you’re marketing an NBA team, people are going to look at that team and immediatey single out “the” player, or a few players. Even when they do try to market the team, like they did in last years postseason, it’s futile because all anyone is talking about are one-on-one matchups.

As for the NBA game, yes, there is an issue with American-born players and the fundamentals of passing and ball control and shit like free throws. However, comparing the athletes of today to the athletes of yesterday is a horrible comparison. You take whatever team you think was the greatest 30 years ago, and if you put them up against the Atlanta Hawks they would be absolutely obliterated. There is no contest. Elgin and Kareem would be tossed around in the post like 15 year olds by the players of today. Elgin Baylor may have played forward and not center, but my point still applies, and those are just the names that came to mind. Wilt Chamberlain may be able to stand up to the abuse if only because of his weight, which is on-par with the players of today.

Again, yes, fundamentals are slipping. And the inability for professional athletes to make free-throws is ridiculous. But the overall level of quality of each athlete is superior to what it was (do you know why these all-time greats put up such ridiculous numbers? because there was no parity) years ago.

As for defense, it may not be the individual defensive player that’s great, but to say defense isn’t being played is fucking ridiculous. The NBA average points scored per game was 97.2 last year, in the regular season. Have you ever looked at the numbers old teams put up? I’m gonna assume you have, since that’s what you’ve been talking about. For talking about the ‘old-time’ and all the great skills they had, the Celtics couldn’t play defense for shit. Watching any old footage of any game in the NBA shows people cutting through other teams on the defensive end like butter.

Here’s your scores for the NBA Finals games played from 1960-69:

The defense seems better in hindsight, don’t it?

What happens if you take those beautiful passes that made the old-style basketball game seem so fluid, and you tried them today? Someone cuts the lane and takes the ball the other way for an uncontested dunk, because they understand positioning now, and defense is more complex than what it used to be, which was essentially ‘uh… go guard this guy.’

The players are bigger, and I think it would lead to a more open style of game if they increased the size of the court, but much of that great ‘skill’ from the older generation wasn’t skill, it was the opposite. It was a lack of skill. Everything was open. It was easy to score, it was easy to pass. That is the age of shitty defense, not today.

As for the quality of the game, the regular season can be boring. But the playoffs last year were the best thing basketball has seen in years, despite the officials best attempts to ruin it. From treating Dirk like a porcelain doll who could not be touched in the West finals to the bad calls for Dwayne Wade to the bad calls against Shaq, it was still amazing basketball.

The series between the Cavaliers and the Wizards is probably the most exciting and skillful basketball I’ve seen in atleast 5 years, and no one talks about that series.

Overall, the quality of basketball is on the rise, even if you perceive the quality of morality of the player to be on the decline. The ratings being down is unfortunate, maybe if they didn’t play games until 3AM EST it would be a different story, though.

I am a fan, I have been watching, and no matter what the “public” who agrees with you think, basketball lately has been pretty impressive and I will not stop watching because young black men do not make me uncomfortable.

98

Dweezil,

I thought you made a lot of good posts, but I think you overestimate the athletes of today just a bit.

Wilt Chamberlain is as big and strong as anybody who’s ever played the game.

David Thompson could jump just as well as any of today’s high flyers.

The difference is in depth today. There’s just so many athletes and players that teams are way deeper nowadays in terms of size and athleticism. I also agree that defense is much better nowadays.

I think it’s an overstatement to say that the great teams of the 70s would lose to the Atlanta Hawks.

In truth, nobody really knows how older teams compare to teams nowadays, and to be honest I think it’s a pointless argument- just compare players to how they do relative to their own era.

99

[quote]Professor X wrote:
PGJ wrote:
These guys should have no problems.

You can’t be serious with this statement. While no one is excusing blatant illegal behavior, to think that money solves all problems is pretty ridiculous. It simply opens the door for a different set of problems. I wonder how many of those who think athletes should be near perfect in their personal lives would handle not being able to know if your friends are really your friends, or if they are all just there for the money. What about whether that girl their going out with actually truly gives a shit about them as a person or whether they are more interested in their wallet and the cameras going off?

I would imagine that there are quite a few issues that provide greater stress than some may deal with…even though they have a really large house and several cars to go home to.

I simply think parents need to step up and be the role models. They need to be the ones showing the right way to do things so that a kid doesn’t have to look to an impersonal celebrity for some type of guidance. While fame is something many people dream about, the people in that light should NOT be providing the foundation for what a child believes in.

Once people stop trying to label these men and women as role models for their own kids, maybe we can stop some of the witch hunts going on in sports as we speak that don’t seem to be doing anything but ruining lives and wasting money.[/quote]

This is all ture, however today many parents worship these guys also. The simple fact is that pro athletes are considered role models. Yes, parents need to do something about this, but are they going to?

My point about them not having problems is that these guys have all the money, resources, advisors, counselors, head-of-line priveledges everywhere, and a 24/7 bully-pulpit. Yet despite all the help available to them many refuse to grow up and act like adults and indulge their immature wants.

Many of them create their own problems. They want to live the rock-star lifestyle. These guys could be a real force to positively influence the younger generation. I can’t think of another group of people who have more influence on kids today, particularly the inner-city kids. It’s sad but true. It’s not right, but that’s how it is. I’m glad the NBA is trying to do something about it.

100

[quote]Dweezil wrote:

I am a fan, I have been watching, and no matter what the “public” who agrees with you think, basketball lately has been pretty impressive and I will not stop watching because young black men do not make me uncomfortable.[/quote]

This idea that rich black men make me or anyone else uncomfortable is stupid. Young black men were playing back in the 80’s and 90’s as well. I said I quit watching because, in my opinion, the game is booring, lacks teamwork, and I just can’t stand the attitudes of a lot of today’s players.

I also said the league is hurting because of it’s player’s image. They are considered the least popular among all pro athletes. Why is that? It has NOTHING to do with race. It’s about attitude.