This thread turned gay pretty quickly. Anyway, I think that one poster has a bit of a point in that there seems to be a big disconnect between what the average US lifter (on the Internet at least) believes to be going on in the PLing world and whatnot. I think more people should be aware and care about the results of IPF singleply records and especially IPF World classic’s results than what a handful of lifters can do on everything-goes-AAS protocols (Dan Green, Lillibridge, Melanchiev etc.). For example, RUM is nice and all but the depth of quality is very shallow and crappy compared to the IPF World classics.
ps: Could you imagine what Carl Yngvar could lift on the everything-goes-AAS program - taking high dosage of test/tren/orals leading up to a comp day - my god.
pps: Why does anyone mention Mark Bell in this context? Fun dude, but hardly accomplished lifter.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
pps: Why does anyone mention Mark Bell in this context? Fun dude, but hardly accomplished lifter.[/quote]
I think this further illustrates the poster’s ignorance of American powerlifting, although it’s a stretch to say he’s “hardly an accomplished lifter”. He’s still one of the best bench pressers around honestly.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
ps: Could you imagine what Carl Yngvar could lift on the everything-goes-AAS program - taking high dosage of test/tren/orals leading up to a comp day - my god.[/quote]
Something insane no doubt, but still less than Ray Williams under the same conditions
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
I think more people should be aware and care about the results of IPF singleply records and especially IPF World classic’s results.[/quote]
Anyone here on TNation competing at this? I know one guy from the O35s. Anyone else?
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
This thread turned gay pretty quickly. Anyway, I think that one poster has a bit of a point in that there seems to be a big disconnect between what the average US lifter (on the Internet at least) believes to be going on in the PLing world and whatnot. I think more people should be aware and care about the results of IPF singleply records and especially IPF World classic’s results than what a handful of lifters can do on everything-goes-AAS protocols (Dan Green, Lillibridge, Melanchiev etc.). For example, RUM is nice and all but the depth of quality is very shallow and crappy compared to the IPF World classics.
ps: Could you imagine what Carl Yngvar could lift on the everything-goes-AAS program - taking high dosage of test/tren/orals leading up to a comp day - my god.
pps: Why does anyone mention Mark Bell in this context? Fun dude, but hardly accomplished lifter.[/quote]
I think one reason for this particular disconnect is that CYC is a single ply lifter. Single ply is still “icky and gross” to the raw zealots but not entertaining enough for the multiply crowd. I don’t even follow single ply lifting here in the states outside of a few select lifters.
The other reason is the uncertainty of drug use. I personally don’t think he takes anything (nor do I even care). But whenever people see lifters that really stand out it’s automatically assumed that they are on drugs and they are compared relatively to numbers set in untested meets. This is unfair but speaks to the perception that you can never truly know if someone ISN’T taking drugs because a test may not pick it up.
I do know of a former NASA lifter that was shamed out of the federation because he was accused of taking drugs – despite never having failed a drug test and insists to this day he wasn’t taking any illegal substances.
[quote]frankjl wrote:
I think one reason for this particular disconnect is that CYC is a single ply lifter. Single ply is still “icky and gross” to the raw zealots but not entertaining enough for the multiply crowd. I don’t even follow single ply lifting here in the states outside of a few select lifters.
[/quote]
Exactly. Single ply in America suffers from the kind of middle child syndrome. The attitude is either go all the way into gear and do multi-ply, or don’t bother with any gear at all. There isn’t much demand anymore for an “in-between”.
I can’t say my viewpoint is any different than you mentioned as one of the raw zealots. Single-ply ruins the rawness anyhow, so for me, you may as well just go ahead and don the thickest suit you can lay your hands on and give me a bigger spectacle.
[quote]frankjl wrote:
I think one reason for this particular disconnect is that CYC is a single ply lifter. Single ply is still “icky and gross” to the raw zealots but not entertaining enough for the multiply crowd. I don’t even follow single ply lifting here in the states outside of a few select lifters.
[/quote]
Exactly. Single ply in America suffers from the kind of middle child syndrome. The attitude is either go all the way into gear and do multi-ply, or don’t bother with any gear at all. There isn’t much demand anymore for an “in-between”.
I can’t say my viewpoint is any different than you mentioned as one of the raw zealots. Single-ply ruins the rawness anyhow, so for me, you may as well just go ahead and don the thickest suit you can lay your hands on and give me a bigger spectacle.[/quote]
I certainly understand and appreciate this middle-child viewpoint, but I personally take a different stand.
Raw lifting is well, simple.
Multiply lifting is often (not always) associated with aspects that are detrimental to the skill of the lifting - high squats, non-existant pauses on the bench press, etc. That being said, the idea of getting a bar that is 250lb over my raw max to my chest in a multiply shirt and not have my eyes explode is impressive.
So for me, single ply (really IPF), offers the best of both words - stringent standards that preserve all the basic skills of the sport, with the added complexity of putting in the work to develop the skill in a suit/shirt (which for those who have never tried, have no idea what I really mean).
Anyways, CYC is phenomenal. There is an interesting documentary on youtube about his struggles with knee pain. I think he must be getting out of that phase (though when you squat like 440kg without any training because of pain… wow… 500kg within 6 months I don’t duobt).
[quote]ahnz wrote:
It’s unheard of taking steroids in the norwegian powerlifting community. It’s just not a topic. It would be nearly impossible for him to get away with it anyway.
With the culture and frequent testing I would say there’s a very, very little chance.[/quote]
You don’t honestly believe this do you?
[quote]OBoile wrote:
You don’t honestly believe this do you?[/quote]
Yes, I do. You know there are more people living in Colorado than in Norway? There’s a very little community. Everyone knows everyone. I know this can be hard for you to comprehend as an American, where there’s drugs everywhere and everyone seems to be taking it, but it’s just different over here.
Csulli you should change your avi to have a Merican flag fluttering in the background ahah. With A Caption saying I heart roids and quadruple ply feds.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
You don’t honestly believe this do you?[/quote]
Yes, I do. You know there are more people living in Colorado than in Norway? There’s a very little community. Everyone knows everyone. I know this can be hard for you to comprehend as an American, where there’s drugs everywhere and everyone seems to be taking it, but it’s just different over here.
[/quote]
Norway would probably attract more residents if it weren’t for the dragons and vikings that rule the land. Colorado is just a bunch of marijuana loving hippies.
Amirite?
Serious question though – what are the laws around steroids there? Are they the same as the United States?
[quote]OBoile wrote:
You don’t honestly believe this do you?[/quote]
Yes, I do. You know there are more people living in Colorado than in Norway? There’s a very little community. Everyone knows everyone. I know this can be hard for you to comprehend as an American, where there’s drugs everywhere and everyone seems to be taking it, but it’s just different over here.
[/quote]
I’m not an American, and I think you’re extremely gullible if you think things are different anywhere. Many of his competitors are using. It’s highly unlikely he’s able to beat them while clean.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
You don’t honestly believe this do you?[/quote]
Yes, I do. You know there are more people living in Colorado than in Norway? There’s a very little community. Everyone knows everyone. I know this can be hard for you to comprehend as an American, where there’s drugs everywhere and everyone seems to be taking it, but it’s just different over here.
[/quote]
I’m not an American, and I think you’re extremely gullible if you think things are different anywhere. Many of his competitors are using. It’s highly unlikely he’s able to beat them while clean.[/quote]
This is exactly the point I raised on page 1. If you believe in your heart that CYC is clean, do you also believe Testsov and Konovalov are clean as well? If not, how do you explain this?
Serious question though – what are the laws around steroids there? Are they the same as the United States?[/quote]
Basically, yes. It’s illegal to use steroids without a prescription. But there’s no real culture for using banned substances in organized sports in Norway. Except for fringe activities such as strongman, and bodybuilding. It’s very frowned upon.
I do understand that it’s hard to believe that CYC is clean, just based on his results. Personally I’m pretty confident that he has never used any banned substances ever.
How can he beat other lifters who (might) cheat? I think there are two big factors.
The first and most important is his talent. He would do well in many sports. And before he injured his knee, he was one the biggest snowboard talents in Norway. He was better than many people who now are big in the international scene, such as Mikkel Bang. He is just a natural athlete, and an extremely gifted athlete can beat less talented competition, even if they cheat.
You also have to take into consideration, that the benefits from using steroids when competing in the IPF, while still big, are to some extent limited. You can’t use them like crazy, unless you want to get caught.
The second factor is his training. He is coached by a former olympic weight lifter, Dietmar Wolf, who has been dedicating a huge proportion of his life to optimize training for clean powerlifters. As the Norwegian powerlifting national coach, this is his only job. It’s a full time gig.
And CYC has been held back quite a lot in his early career on purpose. CYC could be even stronger than he was two or three years ago, but the training isn’t setup for him to improve as quickly as possible, but to make him as strong as possible when he eventually reaches his peak.
Serious question though – what are the laws around steroids there? Are they the same as the United States?
Basically, yes. It’s illegal to use steroids without a prescription. But there’s no real culture for using banned substances in organized sports in Norway. Except for fringe activities such as strongman, and bodybuilding. It’s very frowned upon.
I do understand that it’s hard to believe that CYC is clean, just based on his results. Personally I’m pretty confident that he has never used any banned substances ever.
How can he beat other lifters who (might) cheat? I think there are two big factors.
The first and most important is his talent. He would do well in many sports. And before he injured his knee, he was one the biggest snowboard talents in Norway. He was better than many people who now are big in the international scene, such as Mikkel Bang. He is just a natural athlete, and an extremely gifted athlete can beat less talented competition, even if they cheat.
You also have to take into consideration, that the benefits from using steroids when competing in the IPF, while still big, are to some extent limited. You can’t use them like crazy, unless you want to get caught.
The second factor is his training. He is coached by a former olympic weight lifter, Dietmar Wolf, who has been dedicating a huge proportion of his life to optimize training for clean powerlifters. As the Norwegian powerlifting national coach, this is his only job. It’s a full time gig.
And CYC has been held back quite a lot in his early career on purpose. CYC could be even stronger than he was two or three years ago, but the training isn’t setup for him to improve as quickly as possible, but to make him as strong as possible when he eventually reaches his peak. [/quote]
