Hey CT I was wondering in terms of overall development which is better the lean away chin or the subscapularis pull up. I understand they both hit the subscaps but does the lean away require more abdominals or are both exercises pretty much identical except for the fact that one is pronated and one is supinated.
Thibs,
I know you don’t really care about training splits, so if you think im being an idiot, please say. I’ve been following WS4SVB, which, if you’re not familiar with it, it’s just a slight adaptation of defranco’s ws4sb, 1 cycle is run over nine days with two upper and two lower days instead of one. But i’m not sure how best to apply your auto-regulation and “adapting to your physiology” training approach. Your meant to try and get a new PR in the main lifts as often as you can, so i’ve been starting on a 3rm, adding a rep each week, then when that weights a 5rm, i’ll move up a weight and down to a 3rm. But if i used auto-regulation, on the days that i’m a bit tired, stressed etc, i would simply go for a lighter weight with quicker reps, instead of pushing for a new PR, which i can normally get, even if it nearly kills me.
I’ve only been training for about 1.5-2 years which is probably why i can progress weekly, but which would you say is going to get better strength/size gains, in my rather unexperienced mind, it makes sense to just push myself to get a new PR, even if i am really tired etc, and sure, occasionally i’ll miss it, but i can normally get it. But is not always going for that PR, and making up for lack of weight with speed going to produce better gains in the long run ?
One thought i’ve had is just go for the PR and use the auto regulation on the accessory work, although am i going to be wasting my time going for PR’s if it’s not actually the best way to create training response? Like i said, i’m a beginner really, so i apologise if i’ve missed something in your concepts, and i know i ask a lot of questions, so sorry if i haven’t managed to articulate myself very well. Thanks for any help.
Tin
[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
Hey CT I was wondering in terms of overall development which is better the lean away chin or the subscapularis pull up. I understand they both hit the subscaps but does the lean away require more abdominals or are both exercises pretty much identical except for the fact that one is pronated and one is supinated.[/quote]
From experience the lean-away chin is slightly better for overall development as it hits the lats a bit more. But why settle for only one version?
[quote]OdinsMissingEye wrote:
CT, I’m looking to do a shoulder specialization program along with the Anaconda protocol. I’d like to work out 4-5 days a week and 3 of those days work out twice a day doing a shoulder workout and one other workout. I’ve got the dosage protocol for Anaconda from another thread but was wondering if it would be better to do my shoulder workout in the AM session or the PM session?
My main goal is size but I’m hoping to get some decent strength gains too. I’m just not sure whether it would be better to work out in the AM when I’m fresher or in the evening after my nervous system has been primed by my first workout.[/quote]
If you want a spec phase to be successful, you need to reduce the amount of work you do for all the other muscle groups. Otherwise you risk systemic (neural, immune, hormonal) overload and will not progress optimally.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
If you want a spec phase to be successful, you need to reduce the amount of work you do for all the other muscle groups. Otherwise you risk systemic (neural, immune, hormonal) overload and will not progress optimally.[/quote]
That was my plan. I figured that I could use my AM workout session to prime my nervous system and then work on my shoulders in the PM. My idea was to do one compound movement in the AM such as pull ups or a pressing movement focusing on doing the perfect rep and then I could come back in the PM and do my shoulder workout. This would be coupled with a good diet, the anaconda protocol, and optimal amounts of sleep.
Reviewing my plan I was thinking of splitting up my workouts in the following way:
Sunday: off
Monday: AM chest/PM shoulders
Tuesday: off
Wednesday: AM back/PM shoulders
Thursday: off
Friday: AM legs/ PM shoulders
Saturday: off - maybe some arm and additional core work.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
OdinsMissingEye wrote:
CT, I’m looking to do a shoulder specialization program along with the Anaconda protocol. I’d like to work out 4-5 days a week and 3 of those days work out twice a day doing a shoulder workout and one other workout. I’ve got the dosage protocol for Anaconda from another thread but was wondering if it would be better to do my shoulder workout in the AM session or the PM session?
My main goal is size but I’m hoping to get some decent strength gains too. I’m just not sure whether it would be better to work out in the AM when I’m fresher or in the evening after my nervous system has been primed by my first workout.
If you want a spec phase to be successful, you need to reduce the amount of work you do for all the other muscle groups. Otherwise you risk systemic (neural, immune, hormonal) overload and will not progress optimally.[/quote]
Does Steady state cardio / intervals / sprints increase the volume for legs? or the volume is just reduced in the lower body weight training sessions? (In a fat loss scenario, that’s why the cardio)
[quote]OdinsMissingEye wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
If you want a spec phase to be successful, you need to reduce the amount of work you do for all the other muscle groups. Otherwise you risk systemic (neural, immune, hormonal) overload and will not progress optimally.
That was my plan. I figured that I could use my AM workout session to prime my nervous system and then work on my shoulders in the PM. My idea was to do one compound movement in the AM such as pull ups or a pressing movement focusing on doing the perfect rep and then I could come back in the PM and do my shoulder workout. This would be coupled with a good diet, the anaconda protocol, and optimal amounts of sleep.
Reviewing my plan I was thinking of splitting up my workouts in the following way:
Sunday: off
Monday: AM chest/PM shoulders
Tuesday: off
Wednesday: AM back/PM shoulders
Thursday: off
Friday: AM legs/ PM shoulders
Saturday: off - maybe some arm and additional core work.
[/quote]
Ah ok, didn’t see the days off.
My only issue is that the morning workout might interfere with the PM workout on Monday, but since it is preceded by 2 days off you will likely be fine.
CT, I use to follow a full body routine for many years sometimes training legs 5 times a week because of this my legs have grown more than my upper body. To fix this my plan was to change to a 5 day split with two push/pull and one leg day.
Push:chest,shoulders, and triceps
Pull:Back, Traps, and Biceps
Legs:Quads, Hams, and calves
My question is would it be better to exercise each bodypart equally on the push and pull or concentrate on one body part more on one day?
Coach,
What would be good methods to wake up the nervous system for back training? I mean if i do primary exersizes like rows, pulldowns and chins in the workout. I’ve used ramping in all my exercises with lower reps, but are there other methods for pulling? For pushing i have used heavy partials and twitch reps, and they work for me, but i’m pretty sure they wouldn’t work for pulling as well as for pushing.
Also, im very slow at the turnaround point of squat. Would box-squats or squats from pins be the best exercises for improving the turnaround?
Your concept of perfect rep has helped my training a lot! Thank you a lot for that! But i’m sure i have much to improve regarding the rep.
Coach,
I just have a couple of questions:
-
The new Anaconda protocol, if money wasn’t an issue would you still recommend it for the intermediate lifter? Or wait until the trainer is advanced so he can fully benefit from the protocol?
-
In your experience, what exercises have you found good assistance exercises for the squat and deadlift?
-
I play rugby 3 times a week. On these days, what precautions should i take to ensure that minimal muscle is being lost during these sessions and so that i feel fresh enough the next day to train?
Thanks!
J
[quote]King Eric wrote:
Coach,
I just have a couple of questions:
-
The new anaconda protocol, if money wasn’t an issue would you still recommend it for the intermediate lifter? Or wait until the trainer is advanced so he can fully benefit from the protocol?
-
In your experience, what exercises have you found good assistance exercises for the squat and deadlift?
-
I play rugby 3 times a week. On these days, what precautions should i take to ensure that minimal muscle is being lost during these sessions and so that i feel fresh enough the next day to train?
Thanks!
J[/quote]
-
If the individual has the psychological and physical capacity to train extremely hard (not just fancy himself in believing that he does), yes it would be beneficial to use these products.
-
It depends on the individual’s body structure and muscle weaknesses. For example, someone with short limbs and a long torso will not need the same assistance exercises as someone with long limbs and a short torso. The former will actually not need a lot of assistance exercises for the squat, but will need a lot of such work for the deadlift. The long limbed lifter will be the opposite.
-
The practice should be treated like a training session in regard to supplementation (peri-workout nutrition). I would also add several recovery-enhancing techniques. Look for my article about recovery methods.
[quote]fighter1157 wrote:
Coach,
What would be good methods to wake up the nervous system for back training? I mean if i do primary exersizes like rows, pulldowns and chins in the workout. I’ve used ramping in all my exercises with lower reps, but are there other methods for pulling? For pushing i have used heavy partials and twitch reps, and they work for me, but i’m pretty sure they wouldn’t work for pulling as well as for pushing.
Also, im very slow at the turnaround point of squat. Would box-squats or squats from pins be the best exercises for improving the turnaround?
Your concept of perfect rep has helped my training a lot! Thank you a lot for that! But i’m sure i have much to improve regarding the rep.
[/quote]
-
I like horizontal pull up holding on to jumpstretch bands (hang the strongest jumpstretch bands to the top of the power rack, and use them as handles for the horizontal pull-up (fat man pull up).
-
If you are slow at the turnaround, depth jumps, jump squats and vertical jump series would be a better choice than lift from pins.
[quote]james28 wrote:
CT, I use to follow a full body routine for many years sometimes training legs 5 times a week because of this my legs have grown more than my upper body. To fix this my plan was to change to a 5 day split with two push/pull and one leg day.
Push:chest,shoulders, and triceps
Pull:Back, Traps, and Biceps
Legs:Quads, Hams, and calves
My question is would it be better to exercise each bodypart equally on the push and pull or concentrate on one body part more on one day?[/quote]
I know that situation very well. When I was competing in olympic lifting we used to squat 6 days a week.
As for the amount of volume for each muscle group, look at it this way… all compound exercises for chest also work the shoulders and triceps… pressing movements for the shoulders also work the triceps… all compound exercises for back work the biceps… the traps also get hit by a lot of back, shoulders and some lower body (deadlift) exercises.
I put the muscles in order of which needs the highest direct workload (not including the lower body) considering what I just mentionned:
Back
Chest
Shoulders
Biceps
Triceps
Traps*
Forearms*
- Not everybody actually needs to train these muscles directly.
Obviously this list can be different IF you suffer from a muscle imbalance with one muscle group needing more attention.
When training more than one muscle group per session I normally suggest not going above 6-7 total exercises.
So a session breakdown could look like:
PUSH
Chest - 3 exercises
Shoulders - 2 exercises
Triceps - 1-2 exercises
PULL
Back - 4 exercises
Biceps - 2 exercises
Traps - 0-1 exercises
LEGS
Quads - 2-3 exercises
Hams - 2-3 exercises
Calves - 1 exercise
Coach,
Thanks for the quick reply!
Few follow up questions.
- I personally have a short torso and long limbs. However as my split is 1) Squat + Assistance 2) Torso 3) Deadlift and Assistance 4) Shoulders and Arms i will need assistance exercises for both the squat and the deadlift. I know it depends on the individual, but from experience, which exercises have you seen good results with in aiding the deadlift and the squat.
2)So prior to a rugby training session/match, you still recommend that i spike insulin just before?
3)At the start of each session i have been using an activation technique, followed by lots of heavy lifting. For the finishing exercise for each muscle groups what do you recommend? e.g. an isolation exercise of around 6 reps?
Thanks!
J
Coach Thibaudeau,
As a long-time lurker and a (very) rare poster, let me first say thank you for all that you do here at T-Nation. The amount that you contribute is truly above and beyond. Although I’m just beginning my journey, I’ve learned a lot from your articles and threads here, and I’d like to say thanks and I appreciate all of the knowledge you try to impart.
That being said, this bit from one of your posts in the Anaconda thread caught my attention:
- It works for bodybuilders but also for powerlifters and other athletes. Tate’s guys love the stuff. One of my guys is a 60 years old firefighter who won 4 gold medals at the World Police and Fire Games. His power clean went up more than 50lbs and his deadlift by more than that in 3 months. AND HE WAS TRAINING FOR STRENGTH-ENDURANCE at that time!
I am very interested in strength-endurance training, and I was wondering if you might discuss your methodologies/strategies regarding this type of training (referring to the firefighter).
If you’ve written about this in an article or one of your books, I would greatly appreciate a reference.
Thank you very much for your time, and congratulations on all of the great things happening in your life at the moment.
Christian,
I love the concept you described above of listing mm priorities, then organizing training around it. I have a tough time with my particular list and would love some assistance…
I’m barrel-chested (big chest and back) with much smaller shoulders, arms, and forearms than ideal. So my priorities look like this:
1 - Triceps
2 - Shoulders
3 - Biceps
4 - Forearms
5 - Hamstrings
6 - Traps
7 - Quads
8 - Back
9 - Chest
10 - Calves
I have a tough time prioritizing the top mm’s, because doing so puts a big limitation on how much weight I can use in the big lifts. Could you suggest a strategy I could try based on this list?
How do you use your ANACONDA protocol for cutting?
For example, with the workout for War Room Strategies for Fat Loss, you got 2 strength and 2 complex/lactic days. Are you going to use the full protocol for the complex/lactic workout days as well? My guess is no…
Christian,
What would your recommendations be for the day of a contest for a speed/power athlete? I’ve searched your various Q & A threads for the answer but the only thing I’ve seen you address is what their meals would be. Beyond the proper pregame warm-up, do you suggest anything else?
Thank you.
Thib
I was wondering if you also use autoregulation for your training split as well…or when you train a muscle again.
I have been using your ramping style, starting at 50%, for the past 2 weeks on a 3 way split training each muscle twice every 4 days with one exercise per muscle group.
I have only progressed on one exercises throughout this period and that was one time.
I think that I am not allowing enough time to recover and going to bump up the recover so I will move to a four way training each muscle group twice very 5 days, still using only one exercises per muscle group.
What I was wondering was how many exercises do you usually do, or have your clients do when trainig the whole body equally (eg. not specialising)?
Thanks
[quote]acelement wrote:
How do you use your ANACONDA protocol for cutting?
For example, with the workout for War Room Strategies for Fat Loss, you got 2 strength and 2 complex/lactic days. Are you going to use the full protocol for the complex/lactic workout days as well? My guess is no…[/quote]
You COULD keep the protocol as it is BUT cut out ALL carbs for the rest of the day and lose fat. I’ve done it myself.
But to maximize fat loss as fast as possible and preserve (or even gain) muscle I would use the full protocol minus the FINiBARs on lactate inducing days and keep 1-2 bars on the strength days.