New(est) Training Questions

Training
361

I am currently training as a bobsled athlete and use a program based around explosive lifts such as olympic style lifts, and also exercises such as dip, pull ups,squats,walking lunges,good mornings,push press, bench press, weighted sled push, and various sprints. The try outs focus on the following critieria:15 meter sprint from a standing start
30 meter sprint from a standing start(3.80 or faster)
45 meter sprint from a standing start
60 meter sprint from a standing start
30 meter sprint from a flying start(3.10 or faster)
20 meter weighted (15k) sled tow
Vertical Jump
Shot Toss (16lbs-men’s Bobsled)
Clean
Squat

i have been in some type of sports training for about 12 years now(hockey,lacrosse,sprinting,football and weight training) and have decided to persue a dream in in the bobsled. I am in very good health and physical condition and have no injuries. I seek your advice on prescribing a program for the power and speed a bobsled athlete demands. Your perfect rep program peaked my interest because motor unit recruitment is a huge part of accellerating a 463lb sled to 20mph plus before jumping into the sled. How would you arrange the excersises for a sport specific athlete such as myself using your principals. Thanks in advance. Anybody else on here, your advice is appreciated as well.

362

[quote]oakey82 wrote:
I am currently training as a bobsled athlete and use a program based around explosive lifts such as olympic style lifts, and also exercises such as dip, pull ups,squats,walking lunges,good mornings,push press, bench press, weighted sled push, and various sprints. The try outs focus on the following critieria:15 meter sprint from a standing start
30 meter sprint from a standing start(3.80 or faster)
45 meter sprint from a standing start
60 meter sprint from a standing start
30 meter sprint from a flying start(3.10 or faster)
20 meter weighted (15k) sled tow
Vertical Jump
Shot Toss (16lbs-men’s Bobsled)
Clean
Squat

i have been in some type of sports training for about 12 years now(hockey,lacrosse,sprinting,football and weight training) and have decided to persue a dream in in the bobsled. I am in very good health and physical condition and have no injuries. I seek your advice on prescribing a program for the power and speed a bobsled athlete demands. Your perfect rep program peaked my interest because motor unit recruitment is a huge part of accellerating a 463lb sled to 20mph plus before jumping into the sled. How would you arrange the excersises for a sport specific athlete such as myself using your principals. Thanks in advance. Anybody else on here, your advice is appreciated as well.
[/quote]

Answered in your own thread.

363

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Hey CT, kind of a random question but the left side of my body is just weird. My left calf is 1/2 inch smaller than the right and same with the upper leg. My left lat is also noticeably smaller than my right, just seems odd that the left side is uniformly smaller. I have trouble getting that mind muscle connection with the left side and can’t seem to fix it, it’s bugging the hell out of me.

Have any of your trainees had this issue? If so, how did you work to correct it? Anything other than unilateral training?[/quote]

That’s not that odd actually. Most people are this way, in some it’s just more noticeable than others and it is amplified the bigger you get… so gwt back down to 165 and you wont have a problem :wink:

The problem could be neural inefficiency. But it could also come from a postural problem (one hip higher than the other, one foot flatter than the other, slight scoliosis, etc.) or a nerve ‘entrapment’ (more muscular inflamation that reduces neural activation of the muscles on one side of your body).

So a postural and muscular tightness assessment by a specialist might be a good idea.

If the problem is CNS related I would suggest adding isometric exercises for the weaker side of the body on top of your regular lifting (performed as a ‘warm-up’ or activation) since you can recruit up to 10% more muscle fibers during isometric actions. If you are simply not good at recruiting the muscles of one side of your body, isometrics might ‘teach’ you how to improve that.[/quote]

haha thanks for the response but I think I’ll pass on the cutting idea :wink:

I’d like to give the isometrics a try but I have no idea how these are performed. I tried googling it, but didn’t get many specifics. Mind giving me the quick and dirty?

364

coach in the doug hepburn system the 8x3 is perform with weight around 80-85% or by feeling(for a example with a weight that your spleen coming out of your left eye socket?)

365

[quote]sam21 wrote:
coach in the doug hepburn system the 8x3 is perform with weight around 80-85% or by feeling(for a example with a weight that your spleen coming out of your left eye socket?)[/quote]

  1. The spleen comment is funny when Poliquin makes it, it sounds dumb when somebody copies it to sound cool.

  2. If you took the time to actually do some research instead of trying to copy someone’s methodology from a quick blur in an article you could have found that this is how you do Hepburn’s system…

From ‘Hepburn’s law’ page 22.

‘‘4 sets until you reach a weight that you can do for 8 sets. 3 reps for the first set and 2 reps for the other 7 sets’’

Then there is an 8 workout chart where he explains how you progress.

Basically you do:

1 set of 3, 7 sets of 2 reps for the first workout.
2 sets of 3, 6 sets of 2 reps for the second workout.
3 sets of 3, 5 sets of 2 reps for the third workout.
4 sets of 4, 4 sets of 2 reps for the fourth workout.
5 sets of 3, 3 sets of 2 reps for the fifth workout.
6 sets of 3, 2 sets of 2 reps for the sixth workout.
7 sets of 3, 1 set of 2 reps for the seventh workout.
8 sets of 3 for the eith workout.

THEN you add 5 or 10lbs (5 for upper body and 10 for lower body movements) and start the cycle again.

So for those 8 workouts, you use the same weight. You do the workout twice per week (well, you train 4 days a week, but divide the basic lifts into 2 different days) so the cycle lasts a month.

Now notice two things:

  1. Hepburn mentions working up to the weight you will use for your work sets. So you ramp up until you reach your work set weight.

  2. The instructions say to pick a weight that you CAN do (at the beginning of the cycle) for 8 sets of 3. BUT except for the first set, you only do two reps. This tells me that the load you pick is 1 rep short of the most weight you are SURE to lift for 8 sets of 3 reps. Which basically means 2 (or even 3) reps short of failure.

  3. Hepburn was oftentimes quoted as saying that you should ‘master the weight’… or that you should train to ‘master the weight’. In other words you should always train using a weight that you can lift without struggle (grinding).

  4. In interviews with Hepburn and articles about his style, he was often quoted as recommending lifting the weight as explosively as possible.

So although it is not quoted word for word, the load you select should be right around your max force point (heaviest weight you can still dominate).

I understand what you failed to understand though. If you did more research you will notice that a lot of people got good results from Hepburn’s style of training when followed for one or sometimes 2 cycles. But quickly overtrained (do a web search, it’s easy to find).

I believe that the problem is not in the system, but rather in the fact that people selected an improper load… opting to go balls out (the spleen comment you made) on every one of those sets of 3 reps. Hepburn was all about dominating the weight, and his own weight selection probably reflected that. Those who selected the load according to the same principle got long term results, those who insisted on doing 8 all out sets quickly burned out.

366

Coach, Ive read all the articles compromising the IBB system and the majority of the posts. I am already trying to implement ALL the guidelines of the system. BTW, I managed to nail the ramping and reach a weight in the seated OH BB Press that made me look at the plates again to see if I had counted right.

The only questions that I still have are regarding the max rep set (following the MFP), the MFP itself and exercise quantity.

  1. Can the max rep set be done for EVERY ramping exercise?
  2. Once the MFP has been surpassed, should the exercise end or is it better to lower the weight a bit and do another perfect rep set?
  3. Im going to start off using the IBB methodology using a pull/push/legs split. I was planning in use 6 exercise per workout (seems like a lot from what ive read from you, but heres the thing), these are 4 ramping compound exercise and 2 isolation sets (two sets to failure for each).

In the Pull day I do 3 compounds for the back and 2/3 isolation for the biceps (+a set of shrugs)
In the Press day its 2 exercise for each (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps), 4 compounds and two isolation.

In the Legs day its 2/3 quads exercise (Squat, Front Squat, Bulgarian Split Squat) and 2/3 hamstring exercise (DLs and Leg Curls).
Hypertrophy is the main concern so I was planning to do a max rep set for every compound exercise.
So do you think this is too much and if so what should be cut down?

BTW, thanks for all the great info.

367

Thib - nice info.

Would you personally recommend the Hepburn system?

After all, it doesn’t coincide with the autoregulation concept very well. For example, one of those day where you’re prescribed to do certain weight for certain sets, you could’ve dominated the weight 10 kg higher the same way, but you’re limited to do what the system says.

Although I don’t believe the reverse is true. If you take the weight that you can do for prescribed reps/sets at the END of the cycle and use it at the beginning, I think even on your worst day you’d manage to do the prescribed work just fine.

368

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib - nice info.

Would you personally recommend the Hepburn system?

After all, it doesn’t coincide with the autoregulation concept very well. For example, one of those day where you’re prescribed to do certain weight for certain sets, you could’ve dominated the weight 10 kg higher the same way, but you’re limited to do what the system says.

Although I don’t believe the reverse is true. If you take the weight that you can do for prescribed reps/sets at the END of the cycle and use it at the beginning, I think even on your worst day you’d manage to do the prescribed work just fine.[/quote]

Hepburn is one of the source that influenced my early methodology. The principle of doing lots of sets of low reps, focusing on mastering the weight was a founding principle of my own methods. But it evolved to included autoregulation.

Still it is a very good approach, but with autoregulation it can be improved upon.

369

Coach, Im going to start incorporating the perfect reps and its methods into my training to see it’s effectiveness. I did it today and have a couple of questions.

1.) Would it be more effective if you worked out each muscle once or twice? Just curious as to how it would differ if you worked lets say the chest twice a work, as far as work load, and adding weight.

2.) Should I be adding weight each session?

For instance: Bench from today
130x3
140x3
150x3
160x3
170x3
180x3

So should I start with 2.5 next if I’m in the zone?

Thanks

370

Christian-
My current workout consists of three total body days utilizing a mix of the 5-3-1 method, complexes, working up to near max sets of 3-5 on squat one day, and 20 rep squats on another day.

  1. What is your opinion on the 20 rep squat? Will it really lead to the total body mass and strength that many sources will lead you to believe?

  2. I’ve read a theory stating that barbell complexes will lead to total body hypertrophy due to increasing the bodies amount of time under tension. What are your thoughts?

  3. I am finishing my last week of the 5-3-1 method, do I switch to perfect rep, or stay on course and add perfect rep metods to supplemetary lifts? For achieving a combintation of mass and strength is one (5-3-1 or perfect rep) better than the other?

  4. Lastly, how will perfect rep training affect a persons general physical conditioning? Will the lack of variation in rep scheme negatively affect conditioning and endurance or will the short rest periods in between sets keep the heart rate elevated enough to enhance conditioning?

371

What do you think of the dip as an exercise for size and strength compare to the barbell flat bench?

372

[quote]denisined wrote:
What do you think of the dip as an exercise for size and strength compare to the barbell flat bench?[/quote]

It is one of the better overall exercise IF you can do it without pain in the shoulders and add weight. Compared to the bench? It depends on the individual.

373

Hey Thibs, I have a question regarding active recovery combined with HTH training.

Let’s say I have completed a workout, ramped and all, and stopped when I could not produce the max force. I would like to do a kind of machine circuit using very light weight and very high reps to get blood into the muscle to increase recovery.

Should this active recovery lifting be done superfast also? I think so but I’m not sure about if this would be an extra (big) demand on the nervous system. Thanks!

EDIT: I re-read my post, and talking about a machine circuit I might come off as a troll. I am not, the circuit (100 reps ideally) is really to aid in recovery.

374

hey CT

Ive been using your ramping/max force ideas for training with great success(74kg to 80kg in under four weeks with no supps!?) …however Im about to go on my cut diet and just curious as to whether this type of training would be as effective with a low caloric/carb diet?

Does the principle remain the same even without the large energy intakes?? Especially in terms of maintaining the mass I gained over the last few months.

thanks,
Matt

375

Hey CT

I’m attempting to improve my arms in four AM sessions a week (doing 5/3/1 - so arm sessions AM before lower/conditioning days, not upper)
Would you recommend the same princples for Bi’s/Tri’s as you did in the top to bottom spec? - 8x3 then 5x5?
I’ve done 3 sessions so far:
Triceps
8x3 close grip bench from pins
drop weight 10/15% then
5x5 4 board press
Biceps
Twitch reps on Preacher curl (as performed on your experimental arm workout)8x3 reps in between twitchs
5x5 regular reps on P curl after
I know it’s not ALL about weight used, but I’m concerned that I’m not using a great amount of weight for the 5x5 P curls? Perhaps 5x5 bb curl would be more effective because of the greater load?
No fat bars at my gym but santa got me some proper Fat Gripz.
Thanks in advance
Moogweasel

376

Thank you for the fast reply, I live in Australia though, would it still be possible to buy the weight releasers or would I have to ask

377

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:
hey CT

Ive been using your ramping/max force ideas for training with great success(74kg to 80kg in under four weeks with no supps!?) …however Im about to go on my cut diet and just curious as to whether this type of training would be as effective with a low caloric/carb diet?

Does the principle remain the same even without the large energy intakes?? Especially in terms of maintaining the mass I gained over the last few months.

thanks,
Matt
[/quote]

  1. The approach that helps you put on the most muscle is also the approach that helps you better keep muscle when you diet down

  2. Autoregulation automatically accounts for the possible drop in energy that may come with intense dieting… the amount of work you do per session being a direct result of what your physiology can do on that day. So autoregulation is the best way to avoid overtraining when dieting down

  3. The CNS takes a beating during long diets. Probably because of the lack of carbs and increase in stress levels than can deplete neurotransmitters. So a system that puts less strain on the nervous system will arguably make the dieting down process more tolerable

378

[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
Hey Thibs, I have a question regarding active recovery combined with HTH training.

Let’s say I have completed a workout, ramped and all, and stopped when I could not produce the max force. I would like to do a kind of machine circuit using very light weight and very high reps to get blood into the muscle to increase recovery.

Should this active recovery lifting be done superfast also? I think so but I’m not sure about if this would be an extra (big) demand on the nervous system. Thanks!

EDIT: I re-read my post, and talking about a machine circuit I might come off as a troll. I am not, the circuit (100 reps ideally) is really to aid in recovery.[/quote]

Don’t worry, you didn’t come off as a troll. There IS some merit to high reps work as far as improving the recovery process goes.

But to make it work:

  1. The high rep sets must not be anywhere near failure and you should try to minimize lactate production as much as you can. This means that if you feel that the muscle starts to ‘burn’ take 7-10 seconds of rest to allow for some lactate and hydrogen ions to clear.

  2. The high rep sets work set if there is an ample supply of amino acids available to shuttle to the muscles WHILE THEY ARE BEING DONE. If someone were using the Anaconda protocol it would optimize the recovery effect of high reps stuff, by having more nutrients transported into the muscles.

  3. Minimize fatigue. This means that you should shoot for the gulp lowest effort possible during the recovery sets. Basically you do the opposite of what the ‘perfect rep’ calls for. You should be lowering AND lifting the weight at pretty much the same, controlled (but not slow) speed. Using a gentle turnaround and trying to get by lifting the weight with the least amount of effort required.

Now, don’t anybody go on misquoting me regarding point 3… I can see it already… ‘Thib said that when you perform sets of high reps to build muscle, you should not accelerate or do a fast turnaround’. That is NOT what I’m saying. The super high reps, recovery sets, are NOT to build muscle (they won’t) but to improve recovery by increasing blood flow to the muscles and by increasing non-insulin mediated transport of nutrients into the muscles after a workout, effectively starting the recovery process.

When you are performing a set TO ADD MUSCLE you should be using ‘the perfect rep’ (or one of the techniques we will present in the near future, like deadstop reps) 90% of the time.

379

thanks for your post about hepburn methology question.i borrow this phrase from charles poliquin column because in my country this phrase is used very much and i like it.i have the old doug hepburn books(these that sold by ironmind enterprises) and i follow this principles with success in past in press and curl(for 3 cycles) but i ask you this question because i want to use it now for the squat and before begin i want to sure that i dont start wrong.i want to ask you if the perfect rep principle can used in olympic lifts and how?thans for your time.

380

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
Hey Thibs, I have a question regarding active recovery combined with HTH training.

Let’s say I have completed a workout, ramped and all, and stopped when I could not produce the max force. I would like to do a kind of machine circuit using very light weight and very high reps to get blood into the muscle to increase recovery.

Should this active recovery lifting be done superfast also? I think so but I’m not sure about if this would be an extra (big) demand on the nervous system. Thanks!

EDIT: I re-read my post, and talking about a machine circuit I might come off as a troll. I am not, the circuit (100 reps ideally) is really to aid in recovery.[/quote]

Don’t worry, you didn’t come off as a troll. There IS some merit to high reps work as far as improving the recovery process goes.

But to make it work:

  1. The high rep sets must not be anywhere near failure and you should try to minimize lactate production as much as you can. This means that if you feel that the muscle starts to ‘burn’ take 7-10 seconds of rest to allow for some lactate and hydrogen ions to clear.

  2. The high rep sets work set if there is an ample supply of amino acids available to shuttle to the muscles WHILE THEY ARE BEING DONE. If someone were using the Anaconda protocol it would optimize the recovery effect of high reps stuff, by having more nutrients transported into the muscles.

  3. Minimize fatigue. This means that you should shoot for the gulp lowest effort possible during the recovery sets. Basically you do the opposite of what the ‘perfect rep’ calls for. You should be lowering AND lifting the weight at pretty much the same, controlled (but not slow) speed. Using a gentle turnaround and trying to get by lifting the weight with the least amount of effort required.

Now, don’t anybody go on misquoting me regarding point 3… I can see it already… ‘Thib said that when you perform sets of high reps to build muscle, you should not accelerate or do a fast turnaround’. That is NOT what I’m saying. The super high reps, recovery sets, are NOT to build muscle (they won’t) but to improve recovery by increasing blood flow to the muscles and by increasing non-insulin mediated transport of nutrients into the muscles after a workout, effectively starting the recovery process.

When you are performing a set TO ADD MUSCLE you should be using ‘the perfect rep’ (or one of the techniques we will present in the near future, like deadstop reps) 90% of the time.[/quote]

Thank you very much that cleared it up! All the best for you and your wife (and child :))