New Bankruptcy Law

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]Professor X wrote:
CC companies have been stealing from the rest of us for decades in terms of interest yet no one has stood up for that and there are no laws to protect us from it.

I swear, some here act as if big business is the savior of every man, woman and child in this country. It is simply a part of society, not its foundation and should not be given any more control than it already has.[/quote]

CC companies are stealing from us? Did you lend them money and have them not pay you back? If you don’t like the interest rates, don’t borrow the money. Have a little self-control and save up to buy what you want. Form a neighborhood co-op and lend each other money at an acceptable interest rate. Don’t steal from someone who was willing to give you a chance to prove your worthiness.

Flat out, big business makes our world go around. You work for the government, but the majority of people to some degree rely on big business to support them.

122

[quote]doogie wrote:
I’m arguing this from more of a moral perspective than a legal one. I guess you are right that you can hide behind the law and not be legally guilty for stealing the money.[/quote]

Uhhh… don’t call my girlfriends thieves, dude. They’re not. One had to go through a tough divorce and had to survive on her credit card for a while (LONG story), and the other one is a little ditzy, but got the shaft from the fine print BS, and couldn’t get help from her parents while she was in college because her father lost his job, too.

Am I making excuses for them? Perhaps. But they did not set out to “steal” like you are intimating here. It just got to be too much. Maybe if the CC companies charged less than an arm, leg, and firstborn child in penalty interest and late fees, my lady friends could have paid it all back, don’t you think? And they would have done so.

BTW the credit card companies they defaulted on… they’re still in business, and doing better than ever – which is more than I can say for my friends, who are both scraping by right now.

Some of y’all love to judge folks sometimes, dontcha?

123

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:

Uhhh… don’t call my girlfriends thieves, dude. They’re not. One had to go through a tough divorce and had to survive on her credit card for a while (LONG story), and the other one is a little ditzy, but got the shaft from the fine print BS, and couldn’t get help from her parents while she was in college because her father lost his job, too.
[/quote]

So, wait. Both of these chicks borrowed money when they knew they had no way to repay the debt? You don’t call that theft? Granted, I got no pussy from either of them, but I have no problem calling them theives.

124

Do those of you who feel it is alright to screw the credit card companies feel that it would be alright to screw a local mom and pop grocery store who sold you groceries on credit?

125

I couldn’t agree more. I am a republican, but I think that this is too pro-business. I am a proponent of capitalism, but there has to be balance between big business and protecting the rights of citizens. The republican party has really been annoying lately, espescially John McCain. The steroid commission is an attempt to assert more government control, and he is basically the impetus behind the whole thing.

126

[quote]doogie wrote:
So, wait. Both of these chicks borrowed money when they knew they had no way to repay the debt? You don’t call that theft? Granted, I got no pussy from either of them, but I have no problem calling them theives.
[/quote]
No. They used a credit card instead of whoring themselves on the f’n corner, bro. Try not to get silly. Okay. You caught them. They actually sat down and planned it out:

“First I’ll run up the Visa, then change my phone number… then I’ll run up the Mastercard… transfer the balance… start a new Amex… take on a new identity…”

Honestly, now. They’re THIEVES? They STOLE? Just like going into a Kmart with a big coat and raiding the jewelry display? Get real, pal!

And the whole point I’m trying to make anyway is that the CC companies make it extremely easy to for them to take advantage of you/fuck yourself right in the keister, debt-wise. This is nothing like some mom and pop writing up a tab to pay off next week, this is like Left-Arm Louie and his rather large gun-toting pals saying that the two grand you borrowed last week is now three… capice?

So… no. They’re not thieves. They were vulnerable, and thought that they could get by on revolving credit for a while, and overestimated what the future would bring them in the ability to pay their debt off.

That doesn’t make them thieves.

127

[quote]doogie wrote:
Do those of you who feel it is alright to screw the credit card companies feel that it would be alright to screw a local mom and pop grocery store who sold you groceries on credit?[/quote]

Just to expand on what Lothario wrote, unless that same Mom and Pop business is not only charging you for lunch, but tacking on a 50 dollar service charge and an 80 dollar late fee (because it took you 5 seconds to pull out your wallet), it is not the same. You are trying to oversimplify this while also excusing the shady dealings of many credit card companies. You clearly have never been in any situations where the choice was “starve this week OR charge it”. Your ability to judge every man on woman on the planet like this is amazing.

128

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Just to expand on what Lothario wrote, unless that same Mom and Pop business is not only charging you for lunch, but tacking on a 50 dollar service charge and an 80 dollar late fee (because it took you 5 seconds to pull out your wallet), it is not the same. You are trying to oversimplify this while also excusing the shady dealings of many credit card companies. You clearly have never been in any situations where the choice was “starve this week OR charge it”. Your ability to judge every man on woman on the planet like this is amazing.
[/quote]

The Professor is at it again I see. Trying to excuse the actions of those who knowingly sign up with a credit card company and then knowingly do not repay their debt!

There is no other way to look at this other than it being wrong! You can call credit card companies “shady” but the fact is they are well within the law regarding their interest rates and other charges. In fact, the reason that their interest rates are as high as they are is because they are taking a chance with people who probably don’t deserve another chance.

Where are the kudos for the credit card companies because they have stepped up to the plate and have offered someone with lousy credit the opportunity to “rebuild” their credit score? How many people have successfully used a high interest rate credit card comapny to rebuild their credit score?

The Professor has an “us and them” mentality regarding this issue. If someone goes into bankruptcy then it must be “those evil shady credit card companies who forced them into this situation.” Never mind that most people who deal with these companies are getting a second chance and are quite happy to do so. And I might add, they don’t abuse this opportunity, either knowingly or otherwise! Most actually appreciate the opportunity and repay their debt.

Credit card companies are no more directly responsible for someone going into bankruptcy than McDonalds is for making someone fat! It first takes a decision on the part of the consumer. It’s called personal responsibility!

129

[quote]ZEB wrote:
The Professor is at it again I see. Trying to excuse the actions of those who knowingly sign up with a credit card company and then knowingly do not repay their debt!
[/quote]

You could have ended your little rant at this one statement. Have you considered the possibility that some of those who file for bankruptcy do so because they can NOT repay the debt? Are you truly going to ignore the practices of CC companies? Even some of your fellow republicans are starting to see the light on that issue. Why are you still in the dark?

130

[quote]Professor X wrote:
You could have ended your little rant at this one statement. Have you considered the possibility that some of those who file for bankruptcy do so because they can NOT repay the debt? Are you truly going to ignore the practices of CC companies? Even some of your fellow republicans are starting to see the light on that issue. Why are you still in the dark?[/quote]

I agree with you “some” of the people cannot afford to repay the debt. I fully understand that.

My point is that firstly, those people entered into the agreement and promised to pay their financial obligation. Secondly, the credit card companies are in no way responsible for their customers not living up to their financial obligations. The customer is chooosing to use the business services. They are also able to read and should fully understand the agreement.

The fact that you continue to use words like “shady” to describe credit card companies means that you don’t understand business at it’s most fundamental level. Seems that you are in the dark! I know that your grandmother had a bad experience with debt when she was sick (again I am sorry that this happened). This (and perhaps other experiences) has left you tainted relative to how the entire system works, and should work. Your compassion for the down trodden is overshadowed by your lack of understanding as to how the system actually functions.

Someone needs money to purchase a product or service that they apparently must have immediately (they can’t save for this over a period of time for some reason. Could be a good reason, might not be a good reason.). A company comes along and says “Look you are not the best credit risk, but okay…we will loan you the money anyway, but we will have to charge you greater interest.” The higher the risk, the higher the reward should be. Make sense? Otherwise, why don’t the people who always pay their bills on time and have flawless credit be continually subject to higher than average interest rates? Keep thinking risk/reward!

The customer then has access to cash, goods services etc. that they would not normally have had the opportunity to obtain. Is that a bad thing? No, in fact it’s a good thing. It affords those who have less cash the opportunity to the same goods and services as their neighbor who does have the cash. What a great opportunity, if not abused.

It only becomes bad when the debt is not repaid, which is not the fault of the credit card company. If I buy a Corvette which has the capability of moving at speeds of 150mph is it the manufacturers/dealers fault if I drive it so fast that I get a ticket or get in an accident? Hey…they must have known I was going to speed…right?

Do you feel sorry for the person who purchased the automobile that could go 150mph, or do you say “that guy should have been more careful.” Try to look at credit card companies the same way. They are not bad or “shady”. Essentially they supply a service that if abused can harm the user. No different than that automobile, or my McDonalds example in a previous post, or perhaps hundreds of other examples that could be offered. Personal responsibilty still has to determine where the “guilt” if any, should lie.

Yes, I understand that “some” people really can’t repay the debt. They made a bad decision (probably several bad decisions) and now they are in financial trouble. That is the reason that we have bankruptcy laws and we should have them. However, they need to be tightened even more than the current bill proposes.

The more attention that is directed away from credit card companies and toward the individual the less bankruptcies there will be.