Hey all first post here so I want to give as much info as I can for a full scope on things. Main issues are a severe struggle to drop belly fat, back acne, and joints are starting to feel dry and beat up.
Me- 34 5’8" current weight 209 approx 25% bf. Been on trt for years (androgel for years with zero results highest TT ever got was 119). Doc now has me on 200mg cyp split into 2 sub q shots. .5mg Adex with each shot and 500mg metformin/day to help with weight loss (that I just started about a month ago after my last visit).
Labs from last month after 6 months of the above protocol
Test 518.6 on a 12 day trough
Free test 14.43
E2 22.9
Progesterone 0.437 (high on the scale)
Shbg 12.5
Prolactin 9.46.
My cholesterol is through the roof possibly from the adex maybe bc it went up this time around. But all other tests are normal and my cortisol is good as well as a1c and insulin (I know I’m not fighting a metabolic syndrome).
I intermittent fast on a 18/6 and function very well around 1500 kcals (175g pro, 45g f, 100gc although carbs and fats fluctuate with each other protein I always hit). I’ve been back in the gym after a long hiatus from back issues for about 6 weeks on a PPL split (pp 2x a week L 1x) and strength/progressive overload is great and work outs are solid. Do lots of SS cardio and usually one day a week will do a HIIT and explosive cardio workout. I have a lot of training and aas experience from my younger years just fell out of it all with marriage, work, and lack of drive for the obvious reasons.
The joints arent hindering my work but it’s annoying as hell. The bacne I can tolerate. My main concerns are that with busting my ass these past 6 weeks I’ve actually gained weight 6lbs. The mirror looks better but I dunno. I am still holding belly fat as well as bloat. I also expected my numbers to be a little different. A year ago when I first saw this dr I was even lighter so it’s a bit confusing. I am patient and know this is a long process, really just looking for thoughts and feedback.
I’m open to more frequent or IM injections as well as toying with the adex a bit (I never used an AI with gear bc when I was lean I didnt aromatize too much) Sorry for the rant just wanted to put as much out there to give a full picture. Thanks guys.
-JJ
12 days from last shot yes. And my training experience was mainly bodybuilding although I did go on a rip with doggcrapp and similar programs during one of my last cycles years ago.
OK, twice weekly 100mg injections, right? It would be ideal to see where your levels are at three and a half days post injection. I’m not sure what to make of it 12 days out, would expect things to be low.
100mg each pin yes. And my doc wanted bloodwork at at 10 days so it ended up being 12 bc I just kept it on schedule you know. I’m not losing sleep over it just anticipated it being a bit higher is all. The other points are my primary concern. For lipids I’m open to shaving or dropping the adex but with my bf% still high and e2 at a nice number I’m not sold if that makes sense.
I’m with highpull. It doesn’t make sense to have you on twice weekly injections than have you not inject for labs 10 days out. Labs should be run 3.5 days from last injection just before injecting your second injection for the week
These lab results are from a 12 day trough and doesn’t represent your twice weekly protocol. Your levels are probably peaking much higher and are lower at trough, no wonder you need an AI. You need to inject more frequently and smaller doses so your levels at peak aren’t overly high causing what I believe is water retention.
This protocol is more than likely why you have acne. I’ll bet your T levels are too high at peak driving estrogen higher needing an AI to counter. If you inject your doses daily you might be able to eliminate the AI and the steadier levels might actually make a big difference in the way that you feel.
I fully agree with @Chris_Colucci. You are starving yourself. BTW the scale is pretty much shit if its your only tool. I stayed the same weight for 12 months but dropped several pant sizes and belt holes and my belly button measurement has gone down 4+ inches. Get a tape measure.
Edit: Also a side effect of anastrazole is weight gain.
Appreciate the feedback guys. I have no problem pinning more frequently so will give that a go and see how I feel in a few weeks. As far as the training the ss cardio is really just walking and making sure I’m not sitting on my ass in my spare time (have a treadmill at work), and then weights I keep my rpe at a modest level about 7(compounds are about an 8.5 except deads I go all out) and am only squatting once a week and working deads/rack pulls are one set per week. I know I’m not over training. Also, I recently upped the weight sessions and actually feel better and improved in the gym from when I was lifting 3 days a week on PPL previosuly.
I usually struggle to hit macros so it isn’t that I’m intentionally trying to be at that much of a deficit I just dont eat that much (especially bc I keep the diet clean) and on days when I squat or dead I often go over that. I’ll look over my macros though and see where i can make some adjustments to try and get more calories in.
Plenty of if-it-fits-your-macro websites out there. Even for aggressive fat loss goals you should be 700+ cals over where you are. And that is for AGGRESSIVE fat loss.
Website sample based on your stats:
I show that you are a man with a goal weight of 190 lbs.
Your BMR (and RMR) is 1838 This is the number of calories your body needs just to survive. This doesn’t include any energy output whatsoever.
Your TDEE is 2849
This is the total number of calories you burn during your daily activity.
Your Weight Loss Calories are 2281
This is your TDEE, with a small percentage subtracted to trigger immediate fat loss.
STEP #2Review Your Macro Profile
Based on your age, height, weight, energy level & goal weight, these are your ideal macros:
Your Protein Grams : 184
Your Fat Grams : 85
Your Carbs Grams: 195 (20-25 of which should be fiber)
Overtraining is a whole different ballgame and I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about expending drastically more calories than you’re taking in, which is disrupting your metabolism and hormones. Dr. Jade Teta has a bunch of articles talking a lot about it. This is one: How to Train Your Metabolism - Diet and Nutrition - COMMUNITY - T NATION
That’s even more reason to fix the diet.
Or you could post your diet and let us see where to make adjustments. Nutrition is the hurdle most people trip over, but it shouldn’t be a huge struggle to hit your calories and macros with a bit of planning. What did you eat yesterday?
Watts, I’m familiar with the tdee. Which level did you set it at for these numbers (and thanks for taking the time to do all of that). All recs I’ve come across say to use the sedentary setting as a base even if you’re lifting etc. Although that would be via the bros on reddit lol. It will be a huge undertaking for me to eat that much although I dont disagree with the point you’re making. If I eat shitty food my appetite and hunger are through the roof but when i eat clean it isnt…its very odd lol
Ah yes, the more is better type of thinking. And here you are saying its not working. Get off the scale, up your cals, get a tape measure, and get going.
Avocado or a few more tablespoons of olive oil could do the trick. It’s worth a shot even if I have to force food down until I adjust. And as for what i ate yesterday
8oz grilled salmon
12oz baked chicken breast
A protein shake
2c broccoli
1c spinach sauteed in garlic and 1T olive oil
1c quinoa/brown rice mix
201g protein, 56.5g fat, 52g carbs 1520kcals. This was all I could manage to put down. Also the only reason I intermittent fast is bc I switch from days to nights weekly and want to keep my eating times normal… when I first got this schedule I got fatter as most of us do. Figured the chaotic eating pattern was at least a partial culprit
myfitnesspal is down right now but when its up I will show you how I get 2400 -2500 cals. Im 6’ and currently 212lbs. I lift heavy 4 days a week and do HIIT 2-3 days a week. Sedentary job.
You do not seem to be having any high E2 signs or symptoms. By far, most guys take 200mg a week without using an aromatase inhibitor. Maybe go without it and see how you do?
Could the bodyweight gain be muscle? It can take a while for the visceral fat to go, maybe up to one year.
I like the training and appreciate the dietary discipline, but sometimes it’s more difficult to lose weight when training like this and not eating enough. It may not make sense, but it happens. How is your thyroid function?
Regarding the acne, some are just prone to it, maybe 5%. Did you experience this on AAS?
@highpull I feel like I’m retaining water but am going to shift into more frequent injections. Going to move to 50mg 4x/week (I will go everyday if needed but would rather not just for convenience) hoping the steady blood levels could alleviate the retention and maybe the acne. Acne I had as a teen and slightly on my last cycle of prop and tren ace (cant remember doses) but this is worse from what I can recall. Some of the weight gain is def muscle memory coming back in as I can see it in the mirror but no way it’s all of it lol.
I agree as far as the diet though but like I said it’s a struggle for me. So I will really do my best to incorporate more food my immediate goal is to up to 18-1900 a day and work from there I dont want to just add in a bunch of fat bc I liked my macro balance. Thyroid seems good t3 and 4 are in range (also rub iodine on my arms twice a week to help with conversion) and as I mentioned earlier cortisol is in a good place too. I’m 7.5 months in on this dosage and in the start couldn’t lift much so trying to catch up with the balancing act of it all.
