NBA 2011-2012 Season Thread 2

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601

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
No reason to calm down…Other than Irving, why shouldnt he get some votes as ROY? I didnt say win it, I said get some notice. Knight, Walker, Thomas and Brooks all play for horrendous teams, Shump has been one of the main reasons the Knicks are looking good for the playoffs…if shumpert got the same PT on those poor teams he would put up similar stats.
[/quote]

I hate that line of thinking. Why should someone get votes for an award if we know they don’t deserve to win it? The whole “he should be mentioned in the discussion even though he shouldn’t win it” argument really annoys me (you see it a lot with MVP discussions in every sport). It’s basically just fans of a certain team wanting people to talk more about their guys.

That being said, you can’t rule out people who you haven’t seen play. Shumpert has nowhere NEAR the offensive game of Kyrie Irving, on any team, sorry bro. No matter which team you play on, bad or good, you have to put up those stats against NBA defenders. Irving runs the pick and roll like a 5-year vet, from the couple of games I’ve seen of him. It’s downright scary. Shumpert would NOT put up a 19/4/6 with 47% / 41% / 87% shooting splits on any team, period.

Saying Shump isn’t in the running for ROY doesn’t mean he’s not a good player, but there’s actually a much better crop of rookies this year than people thought of. Isaiah Thomas on the Kings has been awesome since starting, Kenneth Faried is doing things for Denver that they badly need, Kawhi Leonard getting serious run for the #1 or 2 seed in the West.

Also if you want to talk young guards defense, have you seen Avery Bradley? Holy crap (he’s a 2nd year player but still).[/quote]

When Bradley was in highschool I thought he had the potential to be Westbrook 2.0. He’s not quite as athletic or offensive minded but he’s a MUCH better man defender, and has some pretty serious upside. Kind of seems like they’re grooming him to take over for Rondo when he leaves, however that happens.[/quote]

I think they’re grooming him to take over for Allen. The Rondo-Bradley backcourt has somehow been monstrously effective so far despite the lack of shooting. And it’s incredibly disruptive defensively to have them both out there.

You’re right on with Westbrook… his size/athleticism has made him overrated as a man defender. Gambles too often and isn’t that good at it.

602

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Wade has been my favorite player for a long time but I must admit I was disappointed by his comments. I’d rather them not play in the Olympics then complain about not being adequately compensated for the honor of representing their country in the Olympics.

He posted this clarification on his Facebook but it didn’t mean much to me:

[quote]
“I’m reading a lot of reports coming out about my comments re: the Olympics and compensation. And I want to clear this up personally…I responded 2 a specific question asked by a reporter on my thoughts of Olympians being paid. I never asked to be paid to PLAY. What I was referencing is there is a lot of Olympic business that happens that athletes are not a part of. ItÃ?¢??s a complicated issue. BUT my love 4 the game & pride 4 USA motivates me more than any dollar amount. I repped my country in 2004 when we won the silver medal and stood proudly to receive our gold medal in 2008 in Beijing. ItÃ?¢??s always been an honor for me to be a part of the USA Olympic family & IÃ?¢??m looking forward to doing it again in London this summer”
[/quote][/quote]

I think the point is that there are huge amounts of money made off those players (licensing fees etc.) and they don’t see a dime. I doubt it’s the “need to get paid” that matters to them, more just the principle of having people make money off something you do for free.

Similar to how NCAA players feel about bringing millions to their schools’ athletic departments and NCAA pockets when they don’t see shit.

603

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Andrew Bynum, never change: - YouTube

Apparently he was trying to take the ball so he could shoot a last-second three. Why is he OBSESSED with shooting threes?[/quote]

The more I watch Bynum play, the less I like him. He honestly doesn’t do much well other than being massive and he has a terrible attitude. Don’t think he’ll ever be more than he is at the moment 'cause he doesn’t know how to get out of his own way.

604

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
The more I watch Bynum play, the less I like him. He honestly doesn’t do much well other than being massive and he has a terrible attitude. Don’t think he’ll ever be more than he is at the moment 'cause he doesn’t know how to get out of his own way.[/quote]

Couldnt agree more, complete knucklehead.

He has size, gets hurt all the time, shoots 3 for gods knows what reason, and lakers need to package him for the dwightmare.

If Kyrie isnt the unanimous Rookie of the Year, there is something wrong with the voting.

605

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

The more I watch Bynum play, the less I like him. He honestly doesn’t do much well other than being massive and he has a terrible attitude. Don’t think he’ll ever be more than he is at the moment 'cause he doesn’t know how to get out of his own way.[/quote]

Lol, I never saw that clip. I can’t stand Bynum either. He’s a total headcase. That cheap shot on Barerra last year was enough to make my decision final:

606

This is one of the saddest things I’ve seen. From one of the best athletes ever to step on the court, to this. Age and injury are cruel.

607

Old man time is undefeated, that was pretty pathetic but as they said on PTI yesterday it was a good move just getting into the lane and having an open look. I think he knew he took off way too early, good to see they can laugh about it.

608

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
The more I watch Bynum play, the less I like him. He honestly doesn’t do much well other than being massive and he has a terrible attitude. Don’t think he’ll ever be more than he is at the moment 'cause he doesn’t know how to get out of his own way.[/quote]

Yet again, WF taking a dubious claim and running too far with it…

Let’s compare current 2011-12 stats from the league’s top centers, shall we:

Bynnum - 18.4 pts / 12.2 reb / 2.0 blk / .564 FGs / .678 FTs / 2.5 TOs
Howard - 20.4 pts / 14.5 reb / 2.2 blk / .573 FGs / .491 FTs / 3.2 TOs

Sure, we can attribute much of these stats to being massive and playing close to the basket, per the position. And most of them are a wash.

But let’s do focus in on that FT% - note how one player (Bynum) can be a reliable end-game option out there, while the other (Howard) remains a liability at the offensive end in end-game situations.

Point being: the claim that Bynum is simply a big body out there is actually a MUCH MORE APPROPRIATE description of D Howard, actually. Go figure.

609

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
The more I watch Bynum play, the less I like him. He honestly doesn’t do much well other than being massive and he has a terrible attitude. Don’t think he’ll ever be more than he is at the moment 'cause he doesn’t know how to get out of his own way.[/quote]

Yet again, WF taking a dubious claim and running too far with it…

Let’s compare current 2011-12 stats from the league’s top centers, shall we:

Bynnum - 18.4 pts / 12.2 reb / 2.0 blk / .564 FGs / .678 FTs / 2.5 TOs
Howard - 20.4 pts / 14.5 reb / 2.2 blk / .573 FGs / .491 FTs / 3.2 TOs

Sure, we can attribute much of these stats to being massive and playing close to the basket, per the position. And most of them are a wash.

But let’s do focus in on that FT% - note how one player (Bynum) can be a reliable end-game option out there, while the other (Howard) remains a liability at the offensive end in end-game situations.

Point being: the claim that Bynum is simply a big body out there is actually a MUCH MORE APPROPRIATE description of D Howard, actually. Go figure.

[/quote]

A) 68% ft% does not make you a “reliable end-game option”, sorry. Being better than Dwight at the line isn’t hard.
B) Bynum isn’t nearly the help defender Howard is, Howard is much quicker laterally. Bynum is GOOD, don’t get me wrong, but Dwight is great.

*I am talking about engaged Dwight, not the guy that this year has decided to play like he doens’t give a shit in half his games.

Your argument makes sense if you look purely at stats and don’t watch games. The Magic’s entire defensive system relies on forcing guards to drive into Howard. They have turned teams who start Redick, Turkoglu, ancient J-Richardson, etc. into dominant defensive teams despite Dwight being the only above average defender on the floor.

Howard also runs the floor much more quckly.

Actually you can forget everything I typed, and just go with, “how can you tell who is more of a ‘big lumbering body’ just by looking at stats?” Your argument is seriously “Dwight is more of “just a big body” than Bynum because he shoots worse from the line”. That’s like saying the ocean is wetter than a lake because it has waves. What a completely irrelevant data point in that argument.

610

By the way, people, this is Bynum’s SEVENTH fucking season in the league. There is no excuse to be trying to steal the ball from your teammates for last second meaningless threes, or shoulder-checking a 5’9" guard because you’re getting your ass whooped in a playoff game.

611

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Your argument makes sense if you look purely at stats and don’t watch games. [/quote]

Duh. Of course a side-by-side stat comparison is purely about stats. Good point about watching games though as Bynum’s footwork, comfort, and confidence on the low-block just screams out to any informed viewer. (which would include WF, who clearly hasn’t seen much tape)

That’s exactly what it was. And since I’m fairly positive WF wouldn’t reduce Howard to that, I’ve just showed how it makes even less sense wrt Bynum.

612

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
The more I watch Bynum play, the less I like him. He honestly doesn’t do much well other than being massive and he has a terrible attitude. Don’t think he’ll ever be more than he is at the moment 'cause he doesn’t know how to get out of his own way.[/quote]

Yet again, WF taking a dubious claim and running too far with it…

Let’s compare current 2011-12 stats from the league’s top centers, shall we:

Bynnum - 18.4 pts / 12.2 reb / 2.0 blk / .564 FGs / .678 FTs / 2.5 TOs
Howard - 20.4 pts / 14.5 reb / 2.2 blk / .573 FGs / .491 FTs / 3.2 TOs

Sure, we can attribute much of these stats to being massive and playing close to the basket, per the position. And most of them are a wash.

But let’s do focus in on that FT% - note how one player (Bynum) can be a reliable end-game option out there, while the other (Howard) remains a liability at the offensive end in end-game situations.

Point being: the claim that Bynum is simply a big body out there is actually a MUCH MORE APPROPRIATE description of D Howard, actually. Go figure.

[/quote]

A) 68% ft% does not make you a “reliable end-game option”, sorry. Being better than Dwight at the line isn’t hard.
B) Bynum isn’t nearly the help defender Howard is, Howard is much quicker laterally. Bynum is GOOD, don’t get me wrong, but Dwight is great.

*I am talking about engaged Dwight, not the guy that this year has decided to play like he doens’t give a shit in half his games.

Your argument makes sense if you look purely at stats and don’t watch games. The Magic’s entire defensive system relies on forcing guards to drive into Howard. They have turned teams who start Redick, Turkoglu, ancient J-Richardson, etc. into dominant defensive teams despite Dwight being the only above average defender on the floor.

Howard also runs the floor much more quckly.

Actually you can forget everything I typed, and just go with, “how can you tell who is more of a ‘big lumbering body’ just by looking at stats?” Your argument is seriously “Dwight is more of “just a big body” than Bynum because he shoots worse from the line”. That’s like saying the ocean is wetter than a lake because it has waves. What a completely irrelevant data point in that argument.[/quote]

What really stands out there is the points/game for both guys in a league with virtually no centres.

I used to like Dwight because he still has potential to improve his technical game. He’s a freak athletically and has the tools to be truly great. Same for Bynum - he has great length and is scary good when he plays with confidence, which he is doing more of this season. Unfortunately, both guys seem to be excessively immature and just plain stupid. I thought Howard eclipsed Bynum in that field with his recent drama (I subsequently started to dislike him) but Bynum’s own recent behaviour (nicely summarised in the video posted) has probably put him in the lead.

Mike Brown and Jerry Buss need to sit Bynum’s ass down and give him a good verbal lashing. Or maybe Kobe should just bitch slap the immaturity right off him.

613

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
No reason to calm down…Other than Irving, why shouldnt he get some votes as ROY? I didnt say win it, I said get some notice. Knight, Walker, Thomas and Brooks all play for horrendous teams, Shump has been one of the main reasons the Knicks are looking good for the playoffs…if shumpert got the same PT on those poor teams he would put up similar stats.
[/quote]

I hate that line of thinking. Why should someone get votes for an award if we know they don’t deserve to win it? The whole “he should be mentioned in the discussion even though he shouldn’t win it” argument really annoys me (you see it a lot with MVP discussions in every sport). It’s basically just fans of a certain team wanting people to talk more about their guys.

That being said, you can’t rule out people who you haven’t seen play. Shumpert has nowhere NEAR the offensive game of Kyrie Irving, on any team, sorry bro. No matter which team you play on, bad or good, you have to put up those stats against NBA defenders. Irving runs the pick and roll like a 5-year vet, from the couple of games I’ve seen of him. It’s downright scary. Shumpert would NOT put up a 19/4/6 with 47% / 41% / 87% shooting splits on any team, period.

Saying Shump isn’t in the running for ROY doesn’t mean he’s not a good player, but there’s actually a much better crop of rookies this year than people thought of. Isaiah Thomas on the Kings has been awesome since starting, Kenneth Faried is doing things for Denver that they badly need, Kawhi Leonard getting serious run for the #1 or 2 seed in the West.

Also if you want to talk young guards defense, have you seen Avery Bradley? Holy crap (he’s a 2nd year player but still).[/quote]

I understand what your saying, but I was comparing Shump to the other rookies, i.e Walker, Knight and Brooks not Irving. Faried a guy who I love hasnt played enough IMO to be mentioned. All Im saying is I have a serious bro crush on the kid lol

614

CJ freakin’ Watson with the clutch shot…

615

James misses FT that would seal game, and Wade playing like garbage to start OT(just some horrid possessions trying to force things), they’re going to end up losing this game despite Rose shooting 1-13.

616

This is the most ridiculous overtime ever.

EVERYTHING is going in for Chicago.

617

[quote]red04 wrote:
James misses FT that would seal game, and Wade playing like garbage to start OT(just some horrid possessions trying to force things), they’re going to end up losing this game despite Rose shooting 1-13.[/quote]

Yep. Funny I was watching Game 1 of the NBL (Australasian league) yesterday and the game went down to the wire there. The away team had the momentum but didn’t deliver on some crucial plays down the stretch and the best they could manage was to force the game into OT. In OT the home team came out blazing like the Bulls just did here.

Lesson: winners need to know how to close out ball games.

618

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]red04 wrote:
James misses FT that would seal game, and Wade playing like garbage to start OT(just some horrid possessions trying to force things), they’re going to end up losing this game despite Rose shooting 1-13.[/quote]

Yep. Funny I was watching Game 1 of the NBL (Australasian league) yesterday and the game went down to the wire there. The away team had the momentum but didn’t deliver on some crucial plays down the stretch and the best they could manage was to force the game into OT. In OT the home team came out blazing like the Bulls just did here.

Lesson: winners need to know how to close out ball games. [/quote]

I found it especially odd because the Heat actually played fantastic for like, 3:45 of the final 4 minutes. Then Wade has a throwaway offensive possession, but gets the bailout foul to reset the shot clock to 14, forcing the foul on James who misses the first of 2, where hitting both seals it. As for OT, they just didn’t show up, apparently CJ Watson hitting a 3 to force OT is demoralizing or something.

619

[quote]therajraj wrote:
This is the most ridiculous overtime ever.

EVERYTHING is going in for Chicago.[/quote]
Korver’s 3’s were just ridiculous tonight

620

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]red04 wrote:
James misses FT that would seal game, and Wade playing like garbage to start OT(just some horrid possessions trying to force things), they’re going to end up losing this game despite Rose shooting 1-13.[/quote]

Yep. Funny I was watching Game 1 of the NBL (Australasian league) yesterday and the game went down to the wire there. The away team had the momentum but didn’t deliver on some crucial plays down the stretch and the best they could manage was to force the game into OT. In OT the home team came out blazing like the Bulls just did here.

Lesson: winners need to know how to close out ball games. [/quote]

I found it especially odd because the Heat actually played fantastic for like, 3:45 of the final 4 minutes. Then Wade has a throwaway offensive possession, but gets the bailout foul to reset the shot clock to 14, forcing the foul on James who misses the first of 2, where hitting both seals it. As for OT, they just didn’t show up, apparently CJ Watson hitting a 3 to force OT is demoralizing or something.[/quote]

Speaking on the Miami situation, what proportion of the blame should fairly be directed at Erik Spoelstra?

Maybe the Heat will blossom in the playoffs and destroy all the current doubt. It’s been a pretty strange season with the lock out saga starting if off and then the after-math consequences in the form of a condensed season. In that regard, maybe all the talk about how the regular season doesn’t matter holds more weight this season and Miami has an excuse. But come playoff time, I can’t imagine the fall out if Miami loses.