NBA 2011-2012 Season Thread 2

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221

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Did a little digging and it appears the best Davis comparison I can see is a shorter, less athletic Marcus Camby.

And, Oden was injured for most of his one season in college. The guy was a huge risk from the jump. His upside was obviously enticing, but he was a huge risk before he even left school.[/quote]

Totaly forgot. Oden put up those stats with his SHOOTING HAND in a cast most of the season. Good call.[/quote]

His injury problems are truly sad. I know ‘potential’ is a scary word because it goes unfulfilled so often, but god did he have it in spades.

222

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Of course Bryant would only get 10% of the vote, he’s 33. If we’re talking “in their primes”, I’m taking Bryant 100% of the time.[/quote]

Funny thing is, I’m taking Lebron over Bryant even in their primes. And basically for the same reasotn I’m taking Magic over Jordan every single time too.

For me, its always always always been a team game so give me the team guy who’ll consistently make the right basketball play over the individual dominant force who’ll consistently score.

Or maybe its as simple as playing with ballhogs sucks, while playing with Magic or Lebron or Nash or Kidd would be as good as it gets…

[/quote]

You do realize that Magic never won without Abdul-Jabbar, right. I’m taking Jordan and Bryant EVERY SINGLE TIME, 'cause they want the shot and will do everything they can to win. Magic at least was down to take the game in his hands. We all know how James does in those situations.
[/quote]

That’s hardly fair, in 1987-88 Jabbar was 40yrs old and averaged 15 and 6 per game.

Also Magic closed out the Sixers in 1980 with one of the most legendary performances of all time when Jabbar was injured (started at C, played all 5 positions, posted a 42-15-7).

So yeah, that’s a misleading stat IMO
[/quote]

I don’t think it’s misleading at all. He still had a handful of All-Stars and at least one other HOF’er on his squad. Magic was great, no doubt, but I honestly feel like he gets a little more credit than deserved in some departments. He was a TERRIBLE man defender, was suspect from anywhere outside of the foul line extended was a shaky ballhandler when there was man up pressure. He obviously had WAY more positives than negatives, but I sometimes feel like his legend overtakes reality. To his credit, that closeout game was his rookie year and he did in fact jump the tip [which he lost BADLY].

223

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Did a little digging and it appears the best Davis comparison I can see is a shorter, less athletic Marcus Camby.

And, Oden was injured for most of his one season in college. The guy was a huge risk from the jump. His upside was obviously enticing, but he was a huge risk before he even left school.[/quote]

Totaly forgot. Oden put up those stats with his SHOOTING HAND in a cast most of the season. Good call.[/quote]

His injury problems are truly sad. I know ‘potential’ is a scary word because it goes unfulfilled so often, but god did he have it in spades.[/quote]

Yeah, as SCJ said he played a majority of his games with a cast on his shooting hand. He even shot ft’s with his left, hitting a good percentage. My girl’s from Portland and worked in the bar industry and said she saw Oden out damn near every weekend. I imagine if he took better care of himself he could’ve somewhat curtailed his many injuries, but it’s hard to fault the guy. What I don’t understand is how he keeps getting re-signed. This last time around he was apparently not even healthy enough to go in for his scheduled surgery, which is comically sad. He’s gonna have to hang 'em up.

224

Oden’s best game was the NC against the gators. They lost, but he played out of his mind pretty much the whole 40min, while florida was rotating 3 guys to play him; you could tell how gassed he was at the end, but it got him that #1 pick $$$. Still feel really bad for him tho.

Oden played like a big dude, with Davis i’ve seen him hit some outside jump shots, and he runs the floor much better than oden ever did.

I feel like Magic and LBJ want to be liked more than they want to win, while MJ and Kobe dont give a fuck, theyll rip out their own mothers throat if it means winning.

I know this is insane, but I honestly want to see Jordan lace-em up for the bobcats. He already sits at the end of the bench and i know it’s killing him to see his team this bad.

225

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I think he’ll still go #1 in the draft though.[/quote]

Anthony Davis will def go #1 overall, no one else in the discussion.

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Getting harder to say Kevin Love is just putting up empty stats on a bad team.[/quote]

At this current pace, he’s deserving of All-NBA 2nd team honors (at least)

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Jordan was a ballhog? He averaged over 5 assists/game for his career.

Taking Magic over Jordan is just comical. Magic was a great player but come on.[/quote]

When an opponent correctly calls you out for taking 43 shots in a game that doesn’t hit overtime, you might be a ballhog. (that the opponent was Sir Charles doesn’t detract anything, though in MJ’s (and Bryant’s) defense I suppose its called “shooting guard” for a reason)

226

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Taking Magic over Jordan is just comical. Magic was a great player but come on.[/quote]

Like I said, give me the team guy over the unstoppable scorer. Give me the guy who makes every single one of his teammates better, night in and night out, over the gunner.

Same reason I’ll always be more impressed by a triple-double than any 45-pt scoring night…

227

Kyrie is +56 in the 4th quarter this year, if anyone is interested.

228

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Of course Bryant would only get 10% of the vote, he’s 33. If we’re talking “in their primes”, I’m taking Bryant 100% of the time.[/quote]

Funny thing is, I’m taking Lebron over Bryant even in their primes. And basically for the same reasotn I’m taking Magic over Jordan every single time too.

For me, its always always always been a team game so give me the team guy who’ll consistently make the right basketball play over the individual dominant force who’ll consistently score.

Or maybe its as simple as playing with ballhogs sucks, while playing with Magic or Lebron or Nash or Kidd would be as good as it gets…

[/quote]

You do realize that Magic never won without Abdul-Jabbar, right. I’m taking Jordan and Bryant EVERY SINGLE TIME, 'cause they want the shot and will do everything they can to win. Magic at least was down to take the game in his hands. We all know how James does in those situations.
[/quote]

That’s hardly fair, in 1987-88 Jabbar was 40yrs old and averaged 15 and 6 per game.

Also Magic closed out the Sixers in 1980 with one of the most legendary performances of all time when Jabbar was injured (started at C, played all 5 positions, posted a 42-15-7).

So yeah, that’s a misleading stat IMO
[/quote]

I don’t think it’s misleading at all. He still had a handful of All-Stars and at least one other HOF’er on his squad. Magic was great, no doubt, but I honestly feel like he gets a little more credit than deserved in some departments. He was a TERRIBLE man defender, was suspect from anywhere outside of the foul line extended was a shaky ballhandler when there was man up pressure. He obviously had WAY more positives than negatives, but I sometimes feel like his legend overtakes reality. To his credit, that closeout game was his rookie year and he did in fact jump the tip [which he lost BADLY].[/quote]

  • at 6’9 and long, you can only be so bad defensively
  • by '89-91 he had developed legit 3-pt range and was dropping 40-pt game regularly enough (no joke)
  • of course he could handle defensive pressure, all PGs do that (handled Scottie Pippen’s bodycheck-the-whole-94-ft strategy too in '91 :wink:
  • his collection of buzzer beaters tops Jordan’s (not for nothing)
  • also, remember Magic has 6 rings too if B Scott and him don’t tear hamstrings during Finals (trivia: when was the last time a starting backcourt just disappears at that stage of playoffs?)

edit: ok well, the stats don’t exactly back my 3-pt claim. but I prob think that way because there were enough makes when it mattered ('92 All Star Game, vs PHO, etc)

229

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Kyrie is +56 in the 4th quarter this year, if anyone is interested. [/quote]

That number impresses the heck out of me.

Can you post the leaders, etc?

230

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Of course Bryant would only get 10% of the vote, he’s 33. If we’re talking “in their primes”, I’m taking Bryant 100% of the time.[/quote]

Funny thing is, I’m taking Lebron over Bryant even in their primes. And basically for the same reasotn I’m taking Magic over Jordan every single time too.

For me, its always always always been a team game so give me the team guy who’ll consistently make the right basketball play over the individual dominant force who’ll consistently score.

Or maybe its as simple as playing with ballhogs sucks, while playing with Magic or Lebron or Nash or Kidd would be as good as it gets…

[/quote]

You do realize that Magic never won without Abdul-Jabbar, right. I’m taking Jordan and Bryant EVERY SINGLE TIME, 'cause they want the shot and will do everything they can to win. Magic at least was down to take the game in his hands. We all know how James does in those situations.
[/quote]

That’s hardly fair, in 1987-88 Jabbar was 40yrs old and averaged 15 and 6 per game.

Also Magic closed out the Sixers in 1980 with one of the most legendary performances of all time when Jabbar was injured (started at C, played all 5 positions, posted a 42-15-7).

So yeah, that’s a misleading stat IMO
[/quote]

I don’t think it’s misleading at all. He still had a handful of All-Stars and at least one other HOF’er on his squad. Magic was great, no doubt, but I honestly feel like he gets a little more credit than deserved in some departments. He was a TERRIBLE man defender, was suspect from anywhere outside of the foul line extended was a shaky ballhandler when there was man up pressure. He obviously had WAY more positives than negatives, but I sometimes feel like his legend overtakes reality. To his credit, that closeout game was his rookie year and he did in fact jump the tip [which he lost BADLY].[/quote]

  • at 6’9 and long, you can only be so bad defensively
  • by '89-91 he had developed legit 3-pt range and was dropping 40-pt game regularly enough (no joke)
  • of course he could handle defensive pressure, all PGs do that (handled Scottie Pippen’s bodycheck-the-whole-94-ft strategy too in '91 :wink:
  • his collection of buzzer beaters tops Jordan’s (not for nothing)
  • also, remember Magic has 6 rings too if B Scott and him don’t tear hamstrings during Finals (trivia: when was the last time a starting backcourt just disappears at that stage of playoffs?)

edit: ok well, the stats don’t exactly back my 3-pt claim. but I prob think that way because there were enough makes when it mattered ('92 All Star Game, vs PHO, etc)
[/quote]

Your rational for ‘picking’ Magic over MJ was Magic’s superior team abilities. So then why are you trying to justify him individually against MJ?

I think Magic was the greatest Laker ever but 99% of the population is taking MJ over magic in any argument, no matter how you spin it.

You’re a 1%er you greedy Wall-Street fat cat!

231

I don’t know where the Anthony Davis conversation came from but Darius Johnson-Odom from Marquette is the college player to watch. He’s giving Marquette fans a little bit of D-Wade nostalgia.

232

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Jordan was a ballhog? He averaged over 5 assists/game for his career.

Taking Magic over Jordan is just comical. Magic was a great player but come on.[/quote]

When an opponent correctly calls you out for taking 43 shots in a game that doesn’t hit overtime, you might be a ballhog. (that the opponent was Sir Charles doesn’t detract anything, though in MJ’s (and Bryant’s) defense I suppose its called “shooting guard” for a reason)
[/quote]

So he took a lot of shots once in a career that spanned over 1,000 games? Come on. One game can not define you as a player when you have a long career, that is a horrible argument. I never said he didn’t act selfish for any one game in his career, that’s an entirely different argument.

233

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Of course Bryant would only get 10% of the vote, he’s 33. If we’re talking “in their primes”, I’m taking Bryant 100% of the time.[/quote]

Funny thing is, I’m taking Lebron over Bryant even in their primes. And basically for the same reasotn I’m taking Magic over Jordan every single time too.

For me, its always always always been a team game so give me the team guy who’ll consistently make the right basketball play over the individual dominant force who’ll consistently score.

Or maybe its as simple as playing with ballhogs sucks, while playing with Magic or Lebron or Nash or Kidd would be as good as it gets…

[/quote]

You do realize that Magic never won without Abdul-Jabbar, right. I’m taking Jordan and Bryant EVERY SINGLE TIME, 'cause they want the shot and will do everything they can to win. Magic at least was down to take the game in his hands. We all know how James does in those situations.
[/quote]

That’s hardly fair, in 1987-88 Jabbar was 40yrs old and averaged 15 and 6 per game.

Also Magic closed out the Sixers in 1980 with one of the most legendary performances of all time when Jabbar was injured (started at C, played all 5 positions, posted a 42-15-7).

So yeah, that’s a misleading stat IMO
[/quote]

I don’t think it’s misleading at all. He still had a handful of All-Stars and at least one other HOF’er on his squad. Magic was great, no doubt, but I honestly feel like he gets a little more credit than deserved in some departments. He was a TERRIBLE man defender, was suspect from anywhere outside of the foul line extended was a shaky ballhandler when there was man up pressure. He obviously had WAY more positives than negatives, but I sometimes feel like his legend overtakes reality. To his credit, that closeout game was his rookie year and he did in fact jump the tip [which he lost BADLY].[/quote]

Yeah, I’ll agree he might be a tad overrated historically (those passes are fun to remember and stick out in people’s mind). I thought the point you were trying to make was that he was a LeBron type choker and couldn’t be relied on to close shit out on his own though. That I would disagree with.

234

Uh, ok.

[quote]chillain wrote:

  • at 6’9 and long, you can only be so bad defensively
    [/quote]

Wrong. There are plenty of 6’9" people who suck at defense. Height is completely irrelevant to being good on D (it can help if you are already good, but has no correlation to knowing how to play D) He was big, tall and slightly rotund and guarding POINT GUARDS.

No. He had one 40pt game in 88-89 and zero in 89-90 and 90-91.

He had one good 3pt season in his career (89-90) but single season 3p% is prone to spikes and valleys. The following year he was back to 32% in 90-91.

Not all PGs handle defensive pressure equally, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.

So ridiculous I almost think you are trolling

For one thing, you don’t know that for sure. For another, I personally always have trouble with statements like this. You need all kinds of skill AND luck to win a title - everything has to fall into place. A lot of teams lose important players to injuries in the playoffs and at the ends of seasons… NOT having that bad luck is paramount to winning a title.

Also, in NBA history, there are like twice as many teams who “would have won the title if…” as there are actual titles to hand out.

You thought he was a good 3pt shooter in part because he had a good ALL STAR GAME? You really need to stop judging players’ skill sets based on single game stats, when there are entire careers to look at.

Not to mention the fact that the All-Star game has no defense and most NBA guards can hit uncontested threes.

235

So do you guys think Kobe will get another ring before he retires? Assuming they keep the same core they have now and not any other superstars

236

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Kyrie is +56 in the 4th quarter this year, if anyone is interested. [/quote]

That number impresses the heck out of me.

Can you post the leaders, etc?
[/quote]

I just caught that at the end of the Cavs game last night, they dint show to whole list.

237

[quote]therajraj wrote:
So do you guys think Kobe will get another ring before he retires? Assuming they keep the same core they have now and not any other superstars[/quote]

They don’t need any more stars, they just need a serviceable point guard and a SF. Fisher and Artest are seriously on the short list for the worst players in the NBA. Also Kobe needs to quit chucking, 9-31 last night.

238

What do the Lakers have in trade assets? I know Cleveland is shopping Ramon Sessions, who is a quality pg.

239

[quote]therajraj wrote:
So do you guys think Kobe will get another ring before he retires? Assuming they keep the same core they have now and not any other superstars[/quote]

No. The new CBA has way too restrictive of a salary cap to add anything useful, Kobe/Pau/Bynum are not quite good enough to lead their horrid cast of roleplayers to a title this year, and Kobe/Pau aint gettin younger.

They actually might benefit from trading Pau for like 4 good players. In general you want the best player in a trade and never want to give up a dollar bill for 4 quarters in the NBA, but this is a rare case where it might make sense since their non-KoPauDrew players are so patently awful.

240

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Your rational for ‘picking’ Magic over MJ was Magic’s superior team abilities. So then why are you trying to justify him individually against MJ?[/quote]

Nah, not trying to justify him vs MJ individually (that’s a losing battle, granted) just clearing up the errors in WF’s post. I mean, someone’s gotta do it. :slight_smile:

I mean, I grew up in LA during the Showtime era so I was able to watch about 10x as many Laker games as those who didn’t (prob more like 50x, since the NBA wasn’t on national TV 4-5 nights/wk back then)