Never thought studying physiology and anatomy would be my main time consumer. Really, it did not dawn on me that this would be a part of becoming a physical therapist before it became reality. It’s like being in Hogwarts.
I’m loving it.
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General update:
I’m toying around with the idea of fasting two days out of five. That’s because I train three days out of five at the moment. Fasting would give me some extra time to study and get things done. I know @Voxel has done fasting, got any insight on whether or not this is a ridiculous idea?
As far as I think, the worst thing that could happen is that I lose some muscle and strength, maybe have trouble focusing or sleeping on the days I fast, but all of that is easily reversible. Still, some input would be nice to know what I’m in for if I decide to do this.
Speaking of ridiculous ideas, I have a training layout in mind that I’d like to use just so I can cause my co-students to sweat nervously. It includes heavy benching, overhead pressing behind the neck, doing upright rows… All that good stuff physical therapists fear. (Just so you know, our school gym either doesn’t have a bench press station or I missed it, if that tells you anything).
Before doing that, however, I need to get my shoulder mobility up a bit, I may be dumb, but I ain’t stupid. Although training in an unorthodox manner in order to trigger people and injuring myself would certainly be hilarious.
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Never thought you would do fasting lol! You got a big appetite man. Thats gonna suck
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How exactly are you going to bench press without a bench? 
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Love these!
You are right, I have been doing some fasting lately. I’d say, it’s great for getting things done. My fasting day is usually my weekly prep day and while you’d be able to get cognitive work done for a few hours you wouldn’t be able to get say, 8 hours worth, out of it. But, usually, 3 intense hours are better than 8 meandering hours anyway when it comes to studying (what’s your study technique by the way?).
I’d say that fasting is better for doing, rather than learning. If you have a paper that you need to write, on a topic that you kind of get, then fasting won’t get in your way and might be helpful.
The way I’ve done it is I stop eating at 6 PM on Friday, I will have finished eating my dinner by then. I don’t do pre-bed snacks anymore, so the day is normal in every sense. And then I start a timer, after 24 hours have passed I have something around 600 calories and end my day. The first 3 or so hours during Saturday morning can be very productive even when doing something cognitive (say, writing) but after that the mental faculties really decline and so it’s essential to have made up a plan for the day to get the most out of it. The rest of the day is great for chores, cooking, cleaning, etcetera.
Not going to happen, but if you have a heavy AM workout scheduled the day after then you’d be “weaker” on that session for sure. And with regards to losing muscle, I’d say the anabolic rebound you experience the day after will be enough to offset that. If you do it the way I do it, with a small meal at the end of the fast and that meal is high in protein and you aren’t too physically active during your fasting day you should be fine.
Might be a problem if you eat absolutely nothing on your fast day, but I find that the nutrition on that day feeds into the next. I usually have liver meats on my fasting day to get my body lots of nutrients despite the caloric deficit and sleep beautifully. I also make sure to sleep in on that morning, and that’s probably a factor as well.
I’d say, try it before you plan it. And, start on a day when you can stay at home and not on a day when you have to get places and meet people. 5:2 people tend to schedule meetings on one of their fasting days because of the lowered productivity, so take that as a cautionary remark.
If you have any follow-up questions, please ask.
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That’s true, but on the other hand, on the days where I’m not fasting I can get away with eating more than usually 
I don’t actually use the school gym, as I have to be on a bus/train for two hours to get home from school: being sweaty isn’t exactly nice for everyone else that’s travelling.
Now I realize that if I do not use the school gym nobody will be aware of how I train unless I go out of my way to tell them, which I do not do. I’ve got to figure this out.
In that case I’ll have to keep them coming
That’s very true, at least I find that to be the case with me; unless the topic is super exciting, which, at the moment, it is, I find it hard to concentrate for longer intervals.
Honestly, I’m just beginning to figure it out. In the past I’ve been able to wing it in school, as I am rather good at sounding clever, and that has been what it is about up until now. (Apart from stuff like maths and languages, both of which I’m rather good naturally).
But what I’ve noticed in the past is that I learn best when I don’t study for too long without a break, so I’m studying for 90 minutes and then having 30 minutes off, which I use to prep food and do other stuff that has to get done. When I’m finished with my studying for the day I just finish up with the other stuff and call it a day. Apart from that, I’ve found that I learn best when I explain stuff to other people and they ask questions, as that forces me into finding answers and thus figuring things out even more. Really pretty much anything works for me as long as I don’t get bored and/or tired. But man, I wish I had listened when they told us to “learn hot to learn” in elementary school.
I’m actually fasting at the very moment, had my last meal around 10PM last night and I’ve been awake for six hours now. You’re right with the first three or so hours being the most productive, at the moment I’m not feeling great by any stretch of imagination. Feels like my blood sugar had crashed. It’s odd, as glucagon is supposed to be released and get your blood sugar back up.
Nowadays I always eat before going to the gym, so I’ll probably be fine. Only thing is that if a fasting day falls onto a school day I’ll be moving around for pretty much 12 hours straight (4 hours of travel + 8 hours of school), that could affect next days performance. Having a meal before bed on days like that would probably be a good idea.
Got to keep that in mind. I’ll try going completely without food at first, and if I feel that it’s too radical I’ll add liver before bed.
As mentioned, I’m doing it this very moment: it’s a rest day, I don’t have to go to work, just studying today. The day after tomorrow would be another day of fasting if I go by what I had planned. (also a rest day) I have school on that day so I’ll probably take food with me as a plan B; I don’t want to feel like absolute garbage at school.
Let’s say that a hypothetical day of fasting where I don’t have to be at school would look like this:
- Study at 90 minute intervals with 15-30 minute breaks for as long as possible (until I lose focus, that is)
- Do school/work stuff that doesn’t require that much focus until what I need to do on that day is done
- Do whatever I have to do to make the next day go as fluidly as possible
I feel that this type of schedule would work wonderfully. Only thing is that if my cognitive ability goes down radically (which it can do) I’ll need to plan my day ahead the night before/in the morning.
On school days school would just replace the studying portion. Also, on those days planning ahead and writing tasks down immediately when they appear would be of utmost importance, as I am rather scatterbrained even when not fasting.
What do you feel have been the biggest benefits/drawbacks of fasting in terms of training, productivity and work?
Oh yeah, for anybody that is interested: I have a bit over two weeks of time to learn every single bone and their details in both Latin and Finnish. Oh boy.
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My advice is, don’t set insane productivity goals such as “Today I will study for eight hours straight”. Settle for something more average, that you can get in on most days. If and when you can do more, then do more, and don’t allow yourself to do significantly less on the next day just because you were good yesterday. Use your surplus study time as a buffer for when life happens. Two to three effective hours is a pretty good guideline.
In the book “Daily Rituals: How Artists Work” you’d see that most of our historical heroes that are thought of as great producers you’d see that is about as well as they fared. Think “training max” instead of 1RM. Actually, the philosophy behind 5/3/1 works well for studying. Slow, steady progress.
The ails of Scandinavian teaching practices!
Good! When you get back to it, refresh on the material you just went over. Think “Double Stimulation”. It’s called Spaced Repetition and the science behind it is solid.
This is the Feynman technique. Don’t fall in the trap of having to rely on there being other people around. You can explain things to a rubber duck for all it’s worth. It’s great. I used to call my mom and try and teach her stuff, and she has zero technical interest. The same with proof-reading. I’d invite someone over for coffee and in return, they’d have to listen to me read stuff out aloud.
Sounds like you are past the point in which you’d see decreasing productivity. Now is the time to stop studying.
Sounds great. To me, it sounds like you’ll be really successful with it. And, if not, just abandon it.
Get Anki (it’s an app). There are other methods but I think they have too much overhead.
I’ll get back to you on this later. It will take me a while to write out.
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Oh, you know me, I would never do something that extreme. cough
I’d guess that’s applicable to pretty much anything really
Gotta keep that in mind
I can see myself falling into the realm of needing someone to explain things to. I do, however, explain things to myself like I would to someone else while I’m studying (although I can’t really ask myself questions of the caliber someone else could)
I probably have a rubber duck laying around somewhere…
It was an odd experience. For about 3 hours I felt like shit, after that it went away and I got a lot better
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll check it out!
I’ll answer your question first, and then elaborate a bit.
Training: I don’t feel as if my training has been helped by fasting but it hasn’t been negatively impacted by it either but then I’ve always planned ahead. I have a workout scheduled on the day after my fasting day and that’s why I break the fast with a small nutrient rich dinner with lots of protein and some carbs (beef liver). To summarize, the impact on training is ultimately neutral: it’s possible there is some anabolic rebound going on, but I doubt it, as the fasting day isn’t preceeded by a low-carb day.
Productivity: I get a lot done my fasting day, like a crazy amount. Love it. But it’s mostly just house work, but to stave off the hunger I stay busy and end up getting everything I need done. However, if anything happens that falls outside of how I planned my day getting back on track can be really tough and sometimes emotional even.
Work: I don’t work during the weekends which is when I’ve had my fast so, no input there. Sorry.
The reason I started fasting was because there is some anectodal evidence that suggests that it would help get rid of excess skin through the autophagy process and in that respect I haven’t noticed a difference yet. The reason I continued was because the first few times fasting triggered a binging behaviour and I wasn’t comfortable with that. Ultmately, I won out over this behaviour and now feel more in control of my hunger than before.
Now, nutritionally, I’m just trying to find a way to stay healthy and somewhat lean while continuing to progress. I’ve been running on protein+carbs in the AM (til lunch) and protein+fat in the PM. But, the carb window has been a bit too long, so I’ll instead be shortening my carb window in the AM (and consuming more carbs during that time) and start having a fattier lunch with carbs that are lower in GI and see how that fares. To be honest, I just about borderline got an eating disorder now, and need to be less scared of carbs. On one end, I want to make the diet even more extreme in how it’s separated into protein+carbs/protein+fat and on the other end I want to eat more nuanced foods (include beans etcetera, eat when hungry, intuitive eating etcetera.)
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I don’t feel that the fast I did on the day before yesterday affected my performance yesterday, but I did have three meals before that session. But, so far so good
Got to keep that in mind and try to plan for the unplanned
Today I went to school fasted, it was fine. Although I did not have to do anything that requires huge amounts of thinking and the day was rather short
Interesting to see that this was a reason to continue for you, I’d imagine a whole lot of people would get discouraged by this
Why carbs in the morning and fats in the evening instead of the other was around? Is it just a question of preference or do you have better sleep/performance/etc by doing it this way?
It’s odd in a sense that even when you know that carbs won’t magically turn you into a pile of lard you still kind of fear that
Make yourself a set of guidelines; what kind of meals should you eat in a given situation. That way you could eat when hungry and also include macronutrient timing. (That’s pretty much what I do, I may eat four or five pro+fat meals and just one or two pro+carb meals if I’m training late at night)
Thanks for taking the time to answer!
I workout in the AM, even on weekends, and as such having a meal before bed on the end of the fasting day I believe is essential to ensure that I don’t have an absolutely shitty workout.
This is why I like running it on a weekend when the only goal is to cook, clean, and do laundry. There are very few things that can go wrong. The only thing that ever did was meal planning for breaking the fast as all of the stores were out of liver and I grew grumpy.
Nice, how do you get there? I find that the first hours on the fasting day anything goes really but the deeper into it I get the more wary I’d be of doing anything too physical such as biking someplace. Especially in the winter. Not that it’s a risk or anything, it’s just something I’d dislike. A lot.
It was, initially, but I turned around and decided what I wanted to do was to conquer it.
AM workout, glycogen replenishment, spiking insulin post-workout to draw nutrients into the muscle. Obviously, not ideal. Evening workouts and afternoon workouts seem far superior the more I read about the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system.
“Oh noes, the spill-over!”
I will write a lengthier post in my log and link you. Would love to get some feedback from you.
Always!
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Started writing things down in my log but totally forgot to @ you in the post. Check it out if you care to. It’s just a brain-dump so far.
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Yeah, absolutely. As I train in the evening I’ve been able to stretch my fasts (the two I’ve done now) to be 34 or so hours long. I kinda like the fact that there is a whole day with no eating, don’t know how well a small meal would fit me. It could result in me just consuming 4000 Calories in one sitting
First I’m on the train for a bit under two hours, then I’m take a bus and commute for another half an hour. Not really physically taxing but I’d imagine it could grow annoying as time goes on. (Although this allows me to have good four hours of study time)
Got to respect that
It may not be ideal but if it’s the best option for your current situation it’ll do
I’ll check it out
Tweak update:
I do not enjoy writing that as a heading.
This time things are a bit better;
My low back hasn’t caused me pain for over two weeks now. That’s a win. Sometimes after a long day it feels a bit tight but as long as it doesn’t hurt it’s all good to me.
Shoulder/upper pec:
Last time incline bench and most muscular pose hurt, at the moment I’m not doing incline bench but hitting a most muscular is now pain free. However, if I contract my upper chest and front delt I do feel some discomfort.
Right leg:
Squats to depth are out of question now. Last time I did them I couldn’t bend my knee after a set and had to use several minutes just to be able to go into a squat again. (And, being me I still did five sets of squat. Wasn’t fun at all).
BUT. I found a way around this: pin squats done a bit above parallel. They allow for great amounts of loading and are virtually pain free. I’d still prefer full squats over these but it’s better than nothing.
So overall I’d say I’m moving in the right direction
General life update:
I don’t know why, but I’ve had some pretty odd feelings about training lately.
I mean, I like the way I’m training currently, but I have this odd desire to begin powerlifting and wrestling. (Mind you, it’s a bit early for April fools)
Why do I want to do that? No clue. I wrestled as a kid for a while, did one competition where I dominated. Didn’t lose a single point and then I quit. I felt that it was too easy and I got bored of it. But even then I’ve always really enjoyed wrestling. In the army I used to wrestle with the guys whenever we got the chance; sometimes I was taking on two at the time!
Oh well.
What about BJJ?
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Sports and competition are fun! I envy the students that I climb with because if I was them I’d just live at the climbing gym and study between sessions so that I could compete this fall. With a full-time job I don’t have the time to do that and do strength training and honestly sometimes I think when I’m at the normal gym at 6AM that I could have gone climbing instead.
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The problem I have with BJJ is that it seems like an easy way to get injured, especially if you are someone that doesn’t handle defeat that well. I can’t see myself giving up in an armbar or similar without having some broken bones.
Indeed. I love a good competition and it would be fun to actually do something that could be called athletic for a change
Time is the limiting factor for me as well, but I certainly do hope that at some point I can try it out again.
See the positive: it’s great that you’ve found a sport you really like, and this way you won’t get bored of it
Ah I understand 100%
Maybe the lesson you would learn the most in BJJ would be how to accept defeat? Definitely a lesson worth learning IMO, especially in martial arts.
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I see your point, that is something I could use. Every now and again being such bullheaded is a burden. But the time to think about those things isn’t now - I’m a tad too busy to pick up a new hobby at the moment.
Maybe after I finish with my personal training cert (which would be late summer) I have enough time to try something out.
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