Nagin is Nuts

George, context is everything. If, and I don’t know what he said so bear with me, but if he said he didn’t want to bring in workers, hispanic or otherwise, when locals could do the work, then the issue is different.

People are so damned desperate to paint Nagin racist, it is sickening. It does make absolute sense to use local people, so they can earn money to rebuild their lives, as opposed to bringing in cheap workers during the period the government had waived pay requirements.

Nagin’s statements are not made in a vacuum. Sure, he could say things in a more appropriate manner, but he’s dealing with disaster and destruction on a huge scale, he’s stressed and probably working a lot harder than many politicians. He is trying to make sure that his constituents, all of them, are well served during the cleanup process.

Nagin and anyone that claims ‘God cause this because someone is bad’ is nuts.

The evangelical talking heads have the corner of the market on this…much to the chagrin of the evangelical masses.

[quote]vroom wrote:
It really shouldnt matter either way. NO is going to have clean up efforts for years, its crazy that somebody wouldnt want cheap workers to come over. Also no matter WHO he was talking about, its the craziest thing he ever said because you would assume that rebuilding the city would involve bringing more people in no matter their racial makeup. He’s really doing the city an injustice by making these remarks.

George, context is everything. If, and I don’t know what he said so bear with me, but if he said he didn’t want to bring in workers, hispanic or otherwise, when locals could do the work, then the issue is different.

People are so damned desperate to paint Nagin racist, it is sickening. It does make absolute sense to use local people, so they can earn money to rebuild their lives, as opposed to bringing in cheap workers during the period the government had waived pay requirements.

Nagin’s statements are not made in a vacuum. Sure, he could say things in a more appropriate manner, but he’s dealing with disaster and destruction on a huge scale, he’s stressed and probably working a lot harder than many politicians. He is trying to make sure that his constituents, all of them, are well served during the cleanup process.

[/quote]

They won’t argue with you the same as they would with me. Watch. Many of the people jumping in this thread could care less about true “racism”. They have never experienced it on any scale worth discussing making this effort on their part rather suspect.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
They won’t argue with you the same as they would with me. Watch. Many of the people jumping in this thread could care less about true “racism”. They have never experienced it on any scale worth discussing making this effort on their part rather suspect.[/quote]

It’s freaking me out! Whatever happened to Truth, Justice and the American Way?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
They won’t argue with you the same as they would with me. Watch. Many of the people jumping in this thread could care less about true “racism”. They have never experienced it on any scale worth discussing making this effort on their part rather suspect.[/quote]

I have experienced reverse racism while growing up in Oakland, CA.

Affirmative Action was the best thing to happen to me as it locked me out of engineering positions with the LA and Orange County water districts.

Nothing like showing up for on campus recruiting and being the only white person. I was sent packing after a 2 minute interview.

I knew instantly that I would never work in my field of study.

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Professor X wrote:
They won’t argue with you the same as they would with me. Watch. Many of the people jumping in this thread could care less about true “racism”. They have never experienced it on any scale worth discussing making this effort on their part rather suspect.

I have experienced reverse racism while growing up in Oakland, CA.

Affirmative Action was the best thing to happen to me as it locked me out of engineering positions with the LA and Orange County water districts.

Nothing like showing up for on campus recruiting and being the only white person. I was sent packing after a 2 minute interview.

I knew instantly that I would never work in my field of study.
[/quote]

What if I answer this like I am confronted with everything I have stated in this thread. How do you know for sure that you were simply not qualified enough? Why do you suspect that everyone else was less qualified than you or that any of them were?

Further, why would you avoid responding to Vroom’s post (exactly what I predicted) and only respond to mine?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What if I answer this like I am confronted with everything I have stated in this thread. How do you know for sure that you were simply not qualified enough? Why do you suspect that everyone else was less qualified than you or that any of them were?

Further, why would you avoid responding to Vroom’s post (exactly what I predicted) and only respond to mine?[/quote]

I never questioned that you have experienced racism so how can you question that I have?

Affirmative Action helped me broaden my horizons and I switch from engineering to finance. My standard of living is much higher as a result.

FYI - When you make assumptions and act angry it only makes you look bad.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Further, why would you avoid responding to Vroom’s post (exactly what I predicted) and only respond to mine?[/quote]

Huh?

What post by Vroom do you expect me to respond to?

You are acting like a left wingnut which puts you in with the rest of the wing nuttery on this site that is dominated by the right wingnuts.

[quote]vroom wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
I am being consistant dumbass. I’ve never strayed from my position that nagin’s speech held racist undertones, so again, go fuck yourself. Did I make this up as wild shit?:

You are such an idiot. I wasn’t talking about your position you clown. I was talking about the fact that you allow yourself to read between the lines but you don’t allow others to do so. How can you not see that as inconsistent.

No I didn’t. But thanks for playing. Am I racist for thinking that nagin is nuts for saying this, not too mention his remarks about hispanics overrunning his city? You seem to think so, so it must be true right?

Oh, now that you realize your position on this statement is weak, you need to go to some other statement instead? Look, I haven’t seen the statements made concerning hispanics. If they were as you characterize them, then they would be racist, but you seem to be pretty shitty at interpreting what people say, I’ll wait for the real quotes… perhaps in an appropriate thread. This thread happens to be about a certain speech.[/quote]

As I said to x, you’re both right. His other racist diatribe shoud be held for another thread.

[quote]
Why? because I disagree with you? I didn’t realize that you were the end all be all in regards to the credibility department. You truly are a condecending fuck.

Ahahahaha. You ass. You have no credibility because you won’t answer peoples questions, you apply different rules to yourself than others, and you simply make shit up to support your viewpoint. I’m not condescending in any way when I say these things. Oh, yes, that reminds me, you don’t even know the meaning of the words you are arguing about. That makes you stupid, or at least ignorant, it doesn’t make me condescending.[/quote]

I have answered the questions fuckwad, just because you don’t agree with the answers is not my problem.

I stated that there probably was a perception that blacks were being left out of the rebuilding process.

I also stated that it doesn’t excuse a racist speech that was obviously divisive, just because the speech was being given to people who hold that perception.

You’re condecending when due to the fact that you don’t accept my perception of the speech, you ridicule me for not accepting your perception of the speech. Not to mention lecturing me on how I could possibly be racist for finding fault in his speech. I certainly do not agree with your view or perception of the speech. Does finding his speech racist, and defending my viewpoint strongly make me a racist? No.

BTW, here’s the definition of condecending:

con?de?scend?ing (knd-sndng)
ADJECTIVE:

Displaying a patronizingly superior attitude: “The independent investor’s desire to play individual stocks may well worry some market veterans, but that smacks a little of Wall Street’s usual condescending attitude toward small investors” (Tom Petruno).

[quote]
Let me break my position down for you into small manageable pieces.

Nagin stated that NO should be a majority african American city, and that’s the way god wants it. He stated that if NO wasn’t a majority african American city, it wouldn’t be the same NO.

By stating that he and god think that NO should be a majority african American city, that denotes that there should be more black people than any other particular race.

Still with me?

Good. By stating that he wanted more black people than any other race to populate the city, he is calling for a desired racial makeup for his city, and that god himself desires this. The basic premise of this speech is that one race is better than any other for the city of NO.

The notion that one race should be favored over any other in the rebuilding process is racist. Period.
Whether intentional or unintentional, he was implying that more blacks than any other race should populate NO.

Sure, so basically, you are saying that Nagin wants to rebuild New Orleans the way it was.[/quote]

Yes. But here’s the problem dumbass, NO went throug a disaster of biblical proportions and will naver be the same. NO faces a very tough rebuilding process and in the middle of it, he has the balls to say that if NO is gonna be great again that it should be a mojority black. That is displaying elitism in my opinion on top of playing racial favorite. It is my opinion that that this is divisive and racist.

[quote]
You see, while what he said had RACIAL undertones (not racist undertones), it isn’t about picking and choosing who will be there. You can’t even begin to accept the fact he is talking about rebuilding and bringing back the original population.[/quote]

You’re playing word games again vroomie. I believe that the speech held racist undertones due to it’s elitism and preference. And you’re putting words in my mouth. I never said it was about picking and choosing. The speech was about him and god PREFERING the city be a majority black. A politician going on TV and publicly prefering one race over all others to make his city great again? Now that has nazi undertones. That should set your liberal ass on fire.

Do you really not see the double standard, or are you simply ignoring it? A white politician, in the same situation, calls for his city to once again be predominately white because that’s the way god wants it, and you would be all over his ass like a cheap suit and you know it. Especially if said white politician was a republican.

[quote]
It’s easy to imagine that’s how God would want it, since that’s how it always was. However, I do think bringing what God wants into his speech was a bad thing to do. Hell, even Nagin has said that he never should have gone there.[/quote]

This is some of the dumbest shit I’ve heard. God desires no change ever? God desires the status quo to always remain the status quo? Simply because that’s the way it always was?

The more you open your sewer, the dumber you sound. Keep talking.

[quote]
To go so far as to say, The basic premise of this speech is that one race is better than any other for the city of NO, is to go well beyond what Nagin actually said.[/quote]

No it’s not. That’s what he said. Reread the speech. He stated that NO should be repopulated as a majority black, otherwise it wouldn’t be the same

[quote]
You believe this, perhaps, but most of the sane world does not. Holy shit, if people actually believed what you believed, the population would be in a mighty uproar.

Perhaps, instead of you being the only person on the planet with correct reason, and everyone else being wrong, most people have figured out what he really meant and know that it wasn’t whatever fabrication you are substituting for his words at the moment.

Halfwit.[/quote]

Ahahahahahaha. I was really pissed right up until this point. This is funny. Getting a lecture from vroomie about not being the only person on this planet with correct reason.

Your a turd.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
They won’t argue with you the same as they would with me. Watch. Many of the people jumping in this thread could care less about true “racism”. They have never experienced it on any scale worth discussing making this effort on their part rather suspect.[/quote]

How the fuck would you know what experiences I’ve had with racism? I went to a middle school that was predominately black. I have been beaten up for being white. I had to plan my entire day around avoiding certain hallways and groups of black kids so that I wouldn’t get slapped in the back of the head and called a honkey or cracker at best, beaten up again at worst.

Pretty general assumption on your part Prof. You seem to know what experiences the majority of the posters on this forum have had with racism.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Professor X wrote:
They won’t argue with you the same as they would with me. Watch. Many of the people jumping in this thread could care less about true “racism”. They have never experienced it on any scale worth discussing making this effort on their part rather suspect.

How the fuck would you know what experiences I’ve had with racism? I went to a middle school that was predominately black. I have been beaten up for being white. I had to plan my entire day around avoiding certain hallways and groups of black kids so that I wouldn’t get slapped in the back of the head and called a honkey or cracker at best, beaten up again at worst.

Pretty general assumption on your part Prof. You seem to know what experiences the majority of the posters on this forum have had with racism.
[/quote]

First, I was specifically talking about the one poster above who is speaking for every black person he knows, not you. Even though I disagree with your point of view, at least you haven’t spoken for anyone else but yourself.

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Professor X wrote:
What if I answer this like I am confronted with everything I have stated in this thread. How do you know for sure that you were simply not qualified enough? Why do you suspect that everyone else was less qualified than you or that any of them were?

Further, why would you avoid responding to Vroom’s post (exactly what I predicted) and only respond to mine?

I never questioned that you have experienced racism so how can you question that I have?

Affirmative Action helped me broaden my horizons and I switch from engineering to finance. My standard of living is much higher as a result.

FYI - When you make assumptions and act angry it only makes you look bad.

[/quote]

What assumptions were made? I asked your questions (the same types of questions I have been asked in this thread). Please respond to this with the assumptions that were supposedly made by me.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Professor X wrote:
They won’t argue with you the same as they would with me. Watch. Many of the people jumping in this thread could care less about true “racism”. They have never experienced it on any scale worth discussing making this effort on their part rather suspect.

How the fuck would you know what experiences I’ve had with racism? I went to a middle school that was predominately black. I have been beaten up for being white. I had to plan my entire day around avoiding certain hallways and groups of black kids so that I wouldn’t get slapped in the back of the head and called a honkey or cracker at best, beaten up again at worst.

Pretty general assumption on your part Prof. You seem to know what experiences the majority of the posters on this forum have had with racism.
[/quote]

Oh, and might I add that I get called “angry” for how I respond, yet two posters suddenly get so agressive when their experiences are questioned. What is the difference between me and you when I get labeled as being an “angry black man”? Do you get labeled “angry white men”? Please respond.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Professor X wrote:
They won’t argue with you the same as they would with me. Watch. Many of the people jumping in this thread could care less about true “racism”. They have never experienced it on any scale worth discussing making this effort on their part rather suspect.

How the fuck would you know what experiences I’ve had with racism? I went to a middle school that was predominately black. I have been beaten up for being white. I had to plan my entire day around avoiding certain hallways and groups of black kids so that I wouldn’t get slapped in the back of the head and called a honkey or cracker at best, beaten up again at worst.

Pretty general assumption on your part Prof. You seem to know what experiences the majority of the posters on this forum have had with racism.

Oh, and might I add that I get called “angry” for how I respond, yet two posters suddenly get so agressive when their experiences are questioned. What is the difference between me and you when I get labeled as being an “angry black man”? Do you get labeled “angry white men”? Please respond.[/quote]

Yed I do, and have been. And probably for the same reasons, an agressive defense of my positions. I can agree with you in that an agressive defense of a position does not make someone “angry”.

I realize that you specifically did not question me, and if I responded too agressively I apoligize. But my experiences are constantly called into question due to the fact that I’m “lilly white” and could not have possibly had any “real” experiences with racism.

Flamingo,

Why don’t you go learn english first, before making up all this shit.

I’m not ridiculing you for not accepting my perception of the speech. I’m ridiculing you for blaming me for twisting things, when you feel free to invent your own interpretations at will.

That is hypocrisy.

Now, according to your rules, everybody can read whatever they want into his speach, to find whatever conclusion they want. Obviously, that is going to lead to a very confusing world, isn’t it?

Generally, here on planet earth, there is a bit of a leeway with interpretation, but if you are going to interpret something you will need to take into account the context.

There is no way anybody with a brain would imagine that Nagin was planning on keeping white people out. There is no way he was suggesting that black people are better than white people.

Those are the foolish statements you are attributing to him, when he never went there himself.

He was referring to the fact that New Orleans, before the disaster, was a great place. He wants to restore it, bringing back the original residents, so that the mix of cultures present will again make it a great place.

Now, his use of the words “majority” and “God wants it” were in fact foolish and divisive. Most people can see that. Again, if anyone truly thought he meant to keep out white people, there would be an uproar, as saying that would be totally inappropriate.

Other than clowns like yourself, there is no uproar, because reasonable people generally see it differently than you. Really, where are you getting your talking points anyway, some right wing blog or worse?

Anyway, keep talking buddy, you just make yourself look more idiotic the more you do. You are all over the map, make up meanings for words, make up new speeches based on what you think you heard, and then get all upset when people point out you are clueless.

Crackhead.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:

Your deep seated need to find black members of society racist speaks volumes about your own mentality. There, that is something else that is unfortunate.

It isn’t just seen in regards to Nagen. My last post that evoked such a strong response didn’t mention race or imply it AT ALL…yet they still tried to use that to make an issue of racism on my part. It truly does seem that the desire is simply to find a black man they can accuse of racism instead of notice it within society or themselves.

I swear, I see nothing more racist than grouping the voting habits of foreigners together with those of Americans to point out a difference…simply because they are both dark skinned.[/quote]

Evidently I did not articulate my point well enough. You didn’t mention race. I did.
My goal was to point out that you support Nagin and other democrats…regardless of what they say…probably because (using your other posts as examples) your support of the democrat party in general. My deduction is that that is because of your skin color. After countless conversations about politics with various races of people, a conclusion can be made that “American blacks” very strongly vote democrat. Most have them have been told since birth that this is the party that cares for them. (their story…not mine)

I pointed out that real “African American” blacks FROM Africa, tend to be conservaties. I mentioned this only as a side note of interest along with their stated reasons why…the dont care about welfare…and the right to life issue…

So, basically, my point was more of a commentary on race and politics in general and why you appear to take the stances you have taken.

It would be much easier if you would admit the truth: You still see the U.S as a world of racists and believe the democratic party is for the black people of this country. This appears to be the majority opinion of “most” American blacks that I talk to.

Don

So you guys really think that Nagin didn’t just make the comment to help the Saints forego drafting Matt Leinart and draft Vince Young instead, forging a possible winning future for their franchise rather than 10 more years of missing the playoffs?

Maybe he’s just gone fucking crazy?

All joking aside, I don’t think he’s a racist - but he said some provoking things and you can’t argue that if he were white and he wanted to create a ‘vanilla’ city and get the latinos out after they put in all the work to make it better, the whole country would be in a stir, and he would probably never recover.

I’m not saying this is right - he made a poor decision with his comments…obviously, he will be scrutinized for it, and may pay a price. Much like anyone of any color, he will have to eat his words.

Personally, I think the guy is a talker and not a doer. If he hasn’t already hung himself with words, more talking isn’t going to help.

CR

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Professor X wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Professor X wrote:
They won’t argue with you the same as they would with me. Watch. Many of the people jumping in this thread could care less about true “racism”. They have never experienced it on any scale worth discussing making this effort on their part rather suspect.

How the fuck would you know what experiences I’ve had with racism? I went to a middle school that was predominately black. I have been beaten up for being white. I had to plan my entire day around avoiding certain hallways and groups of black kids so that I wouldn’t get slapped in the back of the head and called a honkey or cracker at best, beaten up again at worst.

Pretty general assumption on your part Prof. You seem to know what experiences the majority of the posters on this forum have had with racism.

Oh, and might I add that I get called “angry” for how I respond, yet two posters suddenly get so agressive when their experiences are questioned. What is the difference between me and you when I get labeled as being an “angry black man”? Do you get labeled “angry white men”? Please respond.

Yed I do, and have been. And probably for the same reasons, an agressive defense of my positions. I can agree with you in that an agressive defense of a position does not make someone “angry”.

I realize that you specifically did not question me, and if I responded too agressively I apoligize. But my experiences are constantly called into question due to the fact that I’m “lilly white” and could not have possibly had any “real” experiences with racism.

[/quote]

YOUR experiences are constantly called into question? Have you read this thread by chance? Not one person in this thread has had their experineces questioned more than me in this thread or most threads.

[quote]PtrDR wrote:
Evidently I did not articulate my point well enough. You didn’t mention race. I did.
My goal was to point out that you support Nagin and other democrats…regardless of what they say.[/quote]

Bullshit. I have written several times that I disagree with how he said what he did. How much more do I have to write it for you to not make this statement with a straight face? Quit LYING.

[quote]
…probably because (using your other posts as examples) your support of the democrat party in general.[/quote]

Where have I supported the democratic party in my posts? Please find proof of this. Pointing out the major defects in this current administration is not “supporting the democratic party”.

[quote]
My deduction is that that is because of your skin color. After countless conversations about politics with various races of people, a conclusion can be made that “American blacks” very strongly vote democrat. Most have them have been told since birth that this is the party that cares for them. (their story…not mine)[/quote]

What do you know of what I have been told in my life?

[quote]
I pointed out that real “African American” blacks FROM Africa, tend to be conservaties. I mentioned this only as a side note of interest along with their stated reasons why…the dont care about welfare…and the right to life issue…[/quote]

Why would you compare the voting habits of non-Americans to Americans? This makes no sense in any way.

[quote]
So, basically, my point was more of a commentary on race and politics in general and why you appear to take the stances you have taken.[/quote]

What stances are those? The truth?

[quote]
It would be much easier if you would admit the truth: You still see the U.S as a world of racists and believe the democratic party is for the black people of this country. This appears to be the majority opinion of “most” American blacks that I talk to.

Don[/quote]

What? The US is still largely racist. You just proved it by grouping people together simply because of skin color even though they are from completely different backgrounds and nationalities. You have no clue how “most” black people think so why would you spoeak for them?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
TommyGunn wrote:

I have NO clue what he thinks? And why do you say that? He can only tell me what he truly feels if he were white or if I were black? LOL I know what he tells me, and he does not think like you. We have been best friends for 25 years. But you, who does NOT even know the guy, knows what he is thinking because you are both black, according to your warped logic. Ok, why don’t you tell me what he thinks, oh omniscient one?

This comment is stupid.
[/quote]

Why is a person’s post stupid, or dumb, when you do not agree with it? Like I mentioned previously, you lash out when you do not like what someone says. Is that the way you have a conversation?

You telling me that I do not know what someone thinks, when that person tells me what he/she thinks - that is stupid. According to your warped logic, whenever someone tells another something, i.e., saying what they think, they must be lying; whenever someone takes a survey or a poll giving their opinion about something, i.e., what they think, they must be lying. Or is another’s opinion only relevant when it suits your way of thinking?

That is a delusional comment. You think that out of the 250-270 million people in the US, I am the ONLY one that does not feel that blacks are still largely discriminated against in our current society.
Do you not see how irrational that sounds?

If someone tells you what they think about something, do you dismiss what they say and think they are lying?

And you are not?
You stated that the majority of black people down there have the perception that they are being excluded. Do YOU have the perception, or are you saying what OTHER black people think? Wait a minute, you can say what other black people think, i.e., what their perception is, but I cannot?

But you tell me what other people think.
And you are telling me that I do not know what he thinks, when he tells me. Oh, I forgot, I can only know what he thinks, according to your irrational logic, if I am black.

Sorry, that is not going to happen. I have not spoken to him in a few weeks. He happens to be in Iraq, and I think that his priorities right now include not getting his ass blown off and getting home safe to his wife.