Nagin is Nuts

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]Professor X wrote:
First, I was specifically talking about the one poster above who is speaking for every black person he knows, not you. Even though I disagree with your point of view, at least you haven’t spoken for anyone else but yourself.[/quote]

I take it you are speaking of me.

And you post what the common perception is by black people in NO. Are you not speaking for them?

I could say the same thing to you what you said to me - you have no idea what other people (black or white) think.

Why not take your own advice and have them come on here and post for themselves, since you are posting what they think (what their perception is).

I can post what a black person is saying about this topic and you right now, if you would like. But you are not going to like it, nor agree with it.

162

[quote]TommyGunn wrote:
Professor X wrote:
First, I was specifically talking about the one poster above who is speaking for every black person he knows, not you. Even though I disagree with your point of view, at least you haven’t spoken for anyone else but yourself.

I take it you are speaking of me.

And you post what the common perception is by black people in NO. Are you not speaking for them?

I can post what a black person is saying about this topic and you right now, if you would like. But you are not going to like it, nor agree with it. LOL[/quote]

Where do you live or work that black people speak through you? Allow your friend to use your keyboard and speak for him/herself.

163

[quote]vroom wrote:
You’re condecending when due to the fact that you don’t accept my perception of the speech, you ridicule me for not accepting your perception of the speech.

Flamingo,

Why don’t you go learn english first, before making up all this shit.

I’m not ridiculing you for not accepting my perception of the speech. I’m ridiculing you for blaming me for twisting things, when you feel free to invent your own interpretations at will.

That is hypocrisy.

Now, according to your rules, everybody can read whatever they want into his speach, to find whatever conclusion they want. Obviously, that is going to lead to a very confusing world, isn’t it?

Generally, here on planet earth, there is a bit of a leeway with interpretation, but if you are going to interpret something you will need to take into account the context.

There is no way anybody with a brain would imagine that Nagin was planning on keeping white people out. There is no way he was suggesting that black people are better than white people.[/quote]

Once again your twisting my statement from “Nagin wants NO to be predominately black, and I think that’s racist.” to Nagin wants to keep out white people". You even went so far as to imply that I believe nagin said black people are better than whit people. More twisting due to the fact that I never said that.

[quote]
I never stated that he was planning on keeping white people out. As far as I know he’s fine with white folks, as long as there’s more black folk than any other. Even if that was the way it was before, does that in and of itself make it a great city?

Those are the foolish statements you are attributing to him, when he never went there himself.

He was referring to the fact that New Orleans, before the disaster, was a great place. He wants to restore it, bringing back the original residents, so that the mix of cultures present will again make it a great place.[/quote]

You want to talk about context, okay. The context of his speech was that NO wouldn’t be as great if it’s not majority black. Nowhere in his speech did he discuss a mix of cultures. Please post the portion of the speech where he calls for all races to repopulate the city. I have posted this too many times to count. If you don’t choose to accept this that’s fine. But that was the context of his speech, like it or not.

Do you think that NO could be great again if it was predominately hispanic or caucasian instead of black? Or do black people hold the patent on making cities great?

[quote]
Now, his use of the words “majority” and “God wants it” were in fact foolish and divisive. Most people can see that. Again, if anyone truly thought he meant to keep out white people, there would be an uproar, as saying that would be totally inappropriate.[/quote]

Again, I repeat. I never said that he wanted to keep out white people. That was your particular spin on this issue w/r/t our “argument”. He simply wants to ensure a black majority. Is racial preference by an elected official not racism? I doubt you will answer this directly.

[quote]
Other than clowns like yourself, there is no uproar, because reasonable people generally see it differently than you. Really, where are you getting your talking points anyway, some right wing blog or worse?[/quote]

I have not quoted a single blog or news source in our pleasant little discussion. But here are a few for your reading.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48383

[i]We ask black people … It’s time for us to come together. It’s time for us to rebuild New Orleans ? the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans," the mayor said. “And I don’t care what people are saying in Uptown or wherever they are. This city will be chocolate at the end of the day.”

He also noted: “This city will be a majority African-American city. It’s the way God wants it to be. You can’t have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn’t be New Orleans.” [/i]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1559622/posts
[i]Nagin calls for rebuilding ‘chocolate’ New Orleans
CNN ^ | Tuesday, January 17, 2006

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) – Mayor Ray Nagin on Monday called for the rebuilding of a “chocolate New Orleans” that maintains the city’s black majority, saying, “You can’t have New Orleans no other way.”

“I don’t care what people are saying Uptown or wherever they are. This city will be chocolate at the end of the day,” Nagin said in a Martin Luther King Jr. Day speech. “This city will be a majority African-American city. It’s the way God wants it to be.”[/i]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0601/17/acd.01.html

http://americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=4212
[i]Invoking the deity again to justify, uh, segregation, Nagin added that

?It?s time for us to come together. It?s time for us to rebuild New Orleans ? the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans,? the mayor said. ?This city will be a majority African American city. It?s the way God wants it to be. You can?t have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn?t be New Orleans.?

Gee, not even a chocolate city with vanilla, lemon and tan sprinkles? Imagine of David Duke or anyone else called on a city with a growing black population to stay a white city. Probably so much attention will be focused on these issues that his other courageous statements about black on black crime, poor black leadership and the need for the black community to ?fix itself? will be ignored.

Too bad. But that?s the way God wants it I guess.[/i]

My point, Mr. vroomie, is that while you would love for me to be the only person who think his statements were racist and divissive, this isn’t the case. It’s not the case in blogs, not the case in the media, and it’s not the case on THIS thread.

What else you got vroomie.

[quote]
Anyway, keep talking buddy, you just make yourself look more idiotic the more you do. You are all over the map, make up meanings for words, make up new speeches based on what you think you heard, and then get all upset when people point out you are clueless.

Crackhead.[/quote]

Sorry vroom, but your stuck on stupid.

Is this bad bye?

164

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I can post what a black person is saying about this topic and you right now, if you would like. But you are not going to like it, nor agree with it. LOL

Where do you live or work that black people speak through you? Allow your friend to use your keyboard and speak for him/herself.[/quote]
My girlfriend and I live together. She is black.

But according to your irrational, warped logic, I “have no clue” what she truly thinks about racism, discrimination, etc., because I am white and she is black.

Is that the position you still hold?

165

[quote]TommyGunn wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I can post what a black person is saying about this topic and you right now, if you would like. But you are not going to like it, nor agree with it. LOL

Where do you live or work that black people speak through you? Allow your friend to use your keyboard and speak for him/herself.
My girlfriend and I live together. She is black.

But according to your irrational, warped logic, I “have no clue” what she truly thinks about racism, discrimination, etc., because I am white and she is black.

Is that the position you still hold?[/quote]

No one brought up your girlfriend, including you, until now. Don’t you think it is strange that you would mention some black friend in Iraq (something you didn’t mention until I asked if you could get him online) before you mentioned your own girlfriend? I do, thus why I call bullshit. Put your girl online. I am sure this discussion would get very interesting.

166

This thread is an argument now it does not resemble a rational debate .

167

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

I think Nagin cracked under the pressure when Katrina wrecked the city and has embarrased himself repeatedly.

The media has been more than happy to stick a camera in his face and let him do it.

[/quote]

Zap I can’t agree with you more. The guy fell to pieces after the storm and he has been an emotional train wreck since. I don’t think he is intentionally being racist, but the media is having a field day watching him go down in flames. He can’t pull himself out of his hole.

168

[quote]Professor X wrote:
TommyGunn wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I can post what a black person is saying about this topic and you right now, if you would like. But you are not going to like it, nor agree with it. LOL

Where do you live or work that black people speak through you? Allow your friend to use your keyboard and speak for him/herself.
My girlfriend and I live together. She is black.

But according to your irrational, warped logic, I “have no clue” what she truly thinks about racism, discrimination, etc., because I am white and she is black.

Is that the position you still hold?

No one brought up your girlfriend, including you, until now. Don’t you think it is strange that you would mention some black friend in Iraq (something you didn’t mention until I asked if you could get him online) before you mentioned your own girlfriend? I do, thus why I call bullshit. Put your girl online. I am sure this discussion would get very interesting.
[/quote]

Okay, this is the girlfriend, who is black, and I think you are an ASSHOLE! It is people like you that make the rest of us non racist black people look bad. Blacks like you are always attributing your failures to be the fault of white people. My family moved to the US from Jamaica, worked hard and if we failed at something, we never said it was a white person’s fault. It’s only ignorant blacks, like you, who jump to the conclusion that it had to do with race.

I’m sure you are going to have some stupid remark claiming that what I have stated is “stupid” or “dumb” just because you may not like my viewpoint and that will only prove that YOU are the idiot and can’t stand it when another person has an opinion that differs from yours. I don’t have all day to sit here and debate with back and forth because I do have a life and can find better things to do with my time than to deal with a RACIST like you!

169

[quote]TommyGunn wrote:
Okay, this is the girlfriend, who is black, and I think you are an ASSHOLE! It is people like you that make the rest of us non racist black people look bad. Blacks like you are always attributing your failures to be the fault of white people. My family moved to the US from Jamaica, worked hard and if we failed at something, we never said it was a white person’s fault. It’s only ignorant blacks, like you, who jump to the conclusion that it had to do with race.[/quote]

What have I failed at that I blamed on a white person? Please, let me know. I would never blame my own failures on anyone else but myself. That means, whoever you are, you are clueless about what you speak. Your “boyfriend” should clue you in better.

[quote]
I’m sure you are going to have some stupid remark claiming that what I have stated is “stupid” or “dumb” just because you may not like my viewpoint and that will only prove that YOU are the idiot and can’t stand it when another person has an opinion that differs from yours. I don’t have all day to sit here and debate with back and forth because I do have a life and can find better things to do with my time than to deal with a RACIST like you![/quote]

What was racist in my posts? Please, point it out.

170

[quote]Professor X wrote:
TommyGunn wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I can post what a black person is saying about this topic and you right now, if you would like. But you are not going to like it, nor agree with it. LOL

Where do you live or work that black people speak through you? Allow your friend to use your keyboard and speak for him/herself.
My girlfriend and I live together. She is black.

But according to your irrational, warped logic, I “have no clue” what she truly thinks about racism, discrimination, etc., because I am white and she is black.

Is that the position you still hold?

No one brought up your girlfriend, including you, until now.[/quote]

And, what is your point?

The discussion did not have to do with what my friends do, where they live, etc. It had to with their thoughts on racial issues and them being black. Thus, there was no reason to talk about information beyond that, such as their personal lives.

[quote]I do, thus why I call bullshit. Put your girl online. I am sure this discussion would get very interesting.
[/quote]

I spoke of the beliefs of black people I personally know. Black people I personally know include my male friend AND my girlfriend, since they are black. Are you able to comprehend that?

171

Flamingo,

Par for the course, maybe you should figure out the difference between CONTEXT and CONTENT.

Holy cow man, you have no idea what you are saying do you?

Who cares, you’ve proven yourself to have your opinion, even if you have to fabricate a justification out of thin air to hold it.

Congratulations!

172

[quote]Professor X wrote:
TommyGunn wrote:
Okay, this is the girlfriend, who is black, and I think you are an ASSHOLE! It is people like you that make the rest of us non racist black people look bad. Blacks like you are always attributing your failures to be the fault of white people. My family moved to the US from Jamaica, worked hard and if we failed at something, we never said it was a white person’s fault. It’s only ignorant blacks, like you, who jump to the conclusion that it had to do with race.

What have I failed at that I blamed on a white person? Please, let me know. I would never blame my own failures on anyone else but myself. That means, whoever you are, you are clueless about what you speak. Your “boyfriend” should clue you in better.

I’m sure you are going to have some stupid remark claiming that what I have stated is “stupid” or “dumb” just because you may not like my viewpoint and that will only prove that YOU are the idiot and can’t stand it when another person has an opinion that differs from yours. I don’t have all day to sit here and debate with back and forth because I do have a life and can find better things to do with my time than to deal with a RACIST like you!

What was racist in my posts? Please, point it out.
[/quote]

Professor…its the “totality” of all the posts that I have read regarding these “off topic/politics” threads.
You constantly rip on republicans and are seemingly pro democrat in every post “I” have read. Maybe I am wrong. I am waiting to see if you EVER support anything a republican has to offer.

And by the way… I don’t vote for a particular party because of race isses…that IS racist…I vote republican because they support the military. As an Officer in the Air Force, I CAN speak to the differences between liberals and convservatives when it comes to national defense and the military.

173

[quote]PtrDR wrote:
Professor…its the “totality” of all the posts that I have read regarding these “off topic/politics” threads.
You constantly rip on republicans and are seemingly pro democrat in every post “I” have read. Maybe I am wrong. I am waiting to see if you EVER support anything a republican has to offer.

And by the way… I don’t vote for a particular party because of race isses…that IS racist…I vote republican because they support the military. As an Officer in the Air Force, I CAN speak to the differences between liberals and convservatives when it comes to national defense and the military.[/quote]

Why would I ever have to support anything republicans have to offer? I could care less about what party is holding office if I disagree with the ideals of specific issues. Further, I am also an officer so what makes your opinion one ounce more important than mine? Looking at your posts one can only conclude that you are extremely closed minded to what others experience. Do you think you deserve an award?

You are the one that has brought up race as far as voting practices and attempted to apply them directly to me for no other reason than I am black. Yet you see yourself as neutral? Hardly. Please wake up.

174

[quote]vroom wrote:
Flamingo,

Par for the course, maybe you should figure out the difference between CONTEXT and CONTENT.

Holy cow man, you have no idea what you are saying do you?

Who cares, you’ve proven yourself to have your opinion, even if you have to fabricate a justification out of thin air to hold it.

Congratulations![/quote]

[i]con?text (kntkst)
n.

  1. The part of a text or statement that surrounds a particular word or passage and determines its meaning.
  2. The circumstances in which an event occurs; a setting.

con?tent 1 (kntnt)
n.

  1. Something contained, as in a receptacle. Often used in the plural: the contents of my desk drawer; the contents of an aerosol can.

  2. The subject matter of a written work, such as a book or magazine. Often used in the plural.

a. The substantive or meaningful part: “The brain is hungry not for method but for content, especially content which contains generalizations that are powerful, precise, and explicit” Frederick Turner.

b. The meaning or significance of a literary or artistic work.

  1. The proportion of a specified substance: Eggs have a high protein content.[/i]

I understand the diference just fine. The content of the speech and the context it was placed in made the speech racist and divisive. I’ve explained myself to all ends and answered the “questions” that have been put to me.

You state that I lose credibility because I don’t answer the questions, yet you’ve managed to swerve around all the questions I asked you. You haven’t even met your own standards and everybody has seen it.

Like you said, whatever. For what it’s worth, I apoligize for the needles name calling. I got a little too emotionally involved in our “argument” and let my emotions take over. I should hold myself to a higher standard.

I believe that his speech was racist and you don’t. Fine. We’re just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Have a nice evening Mr.vroomie.

175

[quote]vroom wrote:
It really shouldnt matter either way. NO is going to have clean up efforts for years, its crazy that somebody wouldnt want cheap workers to come over. Also no matter WHO he was talking about, its the craziest thing he ever said because you would assume that rebuilding the city would involve bringing more people in no matter their racial makeup. He’s really doing the city an injustice by making these remarks.

Nagin’s statements are not made in a vacuum. Sure, he could say things in a more appropriate manner, but he’s dealing with disaster and destruction on a huge scale, he’s stressed and probably working a lot harder than many politicians. He is trying to make sure that his constituents, all of them, are well served during the cleanup process.

[/quote]

Your just coddling the guy. Granted he is over-worked and stressed. Just like when people might drink and accidently say something racist, its not the alchohol talking the alchohol is just letting people feel comfortable enough to say racist crap in the first place.Ithink the stress has had a similar effect on the guy. All in all, he isnt serving NO as good as he can because of his statements.

To X and Vroom , threads like this put a big doubt in my mind about the future of America and Europe, for that matter with respect to racism and people being able to get along with each other.

We have one black guy defending the black dude on one side and on another several white
people pointing out that it was considered by many at least to be racist. It seems that we are all really just looking out for our own group rather than for America as a whole.

X, i urge you to admit not only was the speach in question insensitive in a racial matter but condemming it as well.

NO is one of the most diverse cities ever , with spainish, french african, good old LA coonasses everywhere, and US flavors. Like a giant pot of gumbo, but its not right for one of them to denigrate the other no matter which race started it.

176

[quote]Professor X wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
Professor…its the “totality” of all the posts that I have read regarding these “off topic/politics” threads.
You constantly rip on republicans and are seemingly pro democrat in every post “I” have read. Maybe I am wrong. I am waiting to see if you EVER support anything a republican has to offer.

And by the way… I don’t vote for a particular party because of race isses…that IS racist…I vote republican because they support the military. As an Officer in the Air Force, I CAN speak to the differences between liberals and convservatives when it comes to national defense and the military.

Why would I ever have to support anything republicans have to offer? I could care less about what party is holding office if I disagree with the ideals of specific issues. Further, I am also an officer so what makes your opinion one ounce more important than mine? Looking at your posts one can only conclude that you are extremely closed minded to what others experience. Do you think you deserve an award?

You are the one that has brought up race as far as voting practices and attempted to apply them directly to me for no other reason than I am black. Yet you see yourself as neutral? Hardly. Please wake up.[/quote]

I am quite awake X. I may not be as articulate as a poster as you because unlike you; I don’t spend much my free time on this here forum…as good as it is. I admit your superiority there.

I only point out my military service as the MAIN reason why I vote the way I do. I didn’t take into consideration whether it made me more or less important than you or anyone else. I am just stating MY reason for voting for conservatives.

As far as race goes…I AM neutral. I take to task as many white liberals as I can as “American blacks.” The fact that I agree and vote the same with “African American” blacks is further evidence I am neutral.

The reason I ever brought up “African American” blacks vs. “American blacks” was so that one may see how “race” appears to have some play in it. In reality, I think its more to do with “culture” and NOT race.

“African Americans” tend to bring their conservative, Christian/family culture with them from Africa and then show congruence by voting that way.

“American blacks” seem to have some other agenda. 70% out of wedlock birthrates seem to indicate the idea of “family” to be foreign to alot of them. In fact, quite a few prominent “American blacks” seem to say the same thing…such as the distinquished Mr. Herman Caine from Georgia…but I digress…

My impression is that you spend the majority of your time in a “contrary” mood as witnessed by the sarcasm in your posts and you for SURE seem to hate/despise the Republican party.

I sense so much pride with you that I can NEVER see you admitting you are EVERY wrong much less offer an apology for anything you might have said or thought that was mistaken.

Of course…I may be completely off…“I” am HUMAN enough to admit I mayb be wrong!

177

George,

This has been done several times. People, many, make the mistake of thinking you support something when you argue the issue being discussed.

So, no, obviously I am not the Xmeister, but read back, everyone is ready to admit the speech was wrong, it was a mistake, it went to far, whatever. However, the argument is about whether or not it constitutes any type of actual intent to discriminate against whitey.

A few people seem to think so. If you think he was actually promoting discrimination against white people, even though he has made clear that wasn’t the gist of what he meant, then you could feel his statements were racist.

However, it just seems like some folks are really stretching on this speech just so they can do exactly that. These folks will reword or rephrase what he said to interpret him that way, but then claim “twisting” and other bullshit if you offer your own interpretation.

I think everyone is pretty sure it, racism, does exist in both/all directions.

178

[quote]vroom wrote:
X, i urge you to admit not only was the speach in question insensitive in a racial matter but condemming it as well.

George,

This has been done several times. [/quote]

Ask yourself, why would you need to repeat that…AGAIN, if people were actually seeing what was written and not “who wrote it”?

179

[quote]vroom wrote:
X, i urge you to admit not only was the speach in question insensitive in a racial matter but condemming it as well.

George,

This has been done several times. People, many, make the mistake of thinking you support something when you argue the issue being discussed.

So, no, obviously I am not the Xmeister, but read back, everyone is ready to admit the speech was wrong, it was a mistake, it went to far, whatever. However, the argument is about whether or not it constitutes any type of actual intent to discriminate against whitey.

A few people seem to think so. If you think he was actually promoting discrimination against white people, even though he has made clear that wasn’t the gist of what he meant, then you could feel his statements were racist.

However, it just seems like some folks are really stretching on this speech just so they can do exactly that. These folks will reword or rephrase what he said to interpret him that way, but then claim “twisting” and other bullshit if you offer your own interpretation.

I think everyone is pretty sure it, racism, does exist in both/all directions.[/quote]

I agree with you. The only disagreement is that racism is an overt act only you can be very passively racist