Just telling you I am enjoying watching pox defending the indefensible:
“It’s time for us to come together. It’s time for us to rebuild New Orleans ? the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans,” the mayor said. “This city will be a majority African American city. It’s the way God wants it to be. You can’t have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn’t be New Orleans.”
pox, you do know, that this would have been a great time to decry racists who happen to be Black?
It would have given you much more currency in the future.
As it is, everyone thinks you are a total hypocrite.
Gov Blanco and Mayor Nagin should be impeached and tossed into jail. The lack of leadership they showed before, during and after the hurricanes was pathetic. As for the good mayor he is the mayor of a city that would be underwater without pumps keeping it dry on a perfectly sunny day! What the f*%$ did his dumb ass think was going to happen with a hurricane surge blasting it.
He should be held responsible for every death that happen in that city during the hurricanes. Proper, Prior, Planning, Prevents, Piss, Poor, Performance. Let the city sink again and turn it into a tourist attraction for scuba divers I would go back then!!
[quote]USMC68 wrote:
Gov Blanco and Mayor Nagin should be impeached and tossed into jail. The lack of leadership they showed before, during and after the hurricanes was pathetic. As for the good mayor he is the mayor of a city that would be underwater without pumps keeping it dry on a perfectly sunny day! What the f*%$ did his dumb ass think was going to happen with a hurricane surge blasting it.
He should be held responsible for every death that happen in that city during the hurricanes. Proper, Prior, Planning, Prevents, Piss, Poor, Performance. Let the city sink again and turn it into a tourist attraction for scuba divers I would go back then!! [/quote]
Keep this in mind, Gov. Blanco just renovated the state offices to the tune of $500k. This while the rebuilding process is going on.
[quote]USMC68 wrote:
Gov Blanco and Mayor Nagin should be impeached and tossed into jail. The lack of leadership they showed before, during and after the hurricanes was pathetic. As for the good mayor he is the mayor of a city that would be underwater without pumps keeping it dry on a perfectly sunny day! What the f*%$ did his dumb ass think was going to happen with a hurricane surge blasting it.
He should be held responsible for every death that happen in that city during the hurricanes. Proper, Prior, Planning, Prevents, Piss, Poor, Performance. Let the city sink again and turn it into a tourist attraction for scuba divers I would go back then!! [/quote]
I think responsibility lies where it is the people that did not leave have their share of responsibility. Nagin has his share, Blanco has his share. I think America has some but a very limited amount.
I think Nagins remarks were nothing but racist. I do not feel there has to be intent of malice to be racist. Case in point, right now I am reading Gone with the Wind, a beautifully written book and as of yet there is no malice pertaining to the black race. But it is full of racist beliefs
By the way what ever happened to the young man that commandeered a School bus loaded it up and went to Texas? I thought he deserved a metal and last I heard he was in custody charges pending
You that continue to accuse him of being racist with his “chocolate” statement are off the mark.
It was stupid and could easily be misconstrued as racist, however it was not racist by intent.[/quote]
Very true. I don’t know how many people understand what Creole is and how New Orleanshas always reflected that. I don’t beleive Nagin meant his statement in a racist way. If N.O. loses it’s Creole roots, it is no longer N.O. period.
You that continue to accuse him of being racist with his “chocolate” statement are off the mark.
It was stupid and could easily be misconstrued as racist, however it was not racist by intent.[/quote]
A person who is creole can be black.
Wikipedia - under the heading, “New Orleans and Louisiana Creole,” it states that “Whites, Blacks, Indians, and those of mixed race can all be creole.” Thus, it seems that a creole can be black.
I feel that if a white politician said something similar, but substituted “vanilla” for “chocolate” and “white” for “black” or “African American,” he/she would be labeled a racist by many, even if the community was predominantly white before.
[quote]TommyGunn wrote:
RHINO928 wrote:
FWIW, Nagin is not “black”
He is Creole, as was/is New Orleans.
You that continue to accuse him of being racist with his “chocolate” statement are off the mark.
It was stupid and could easily be misconstrued as racist, however it was not racist by intent.
A person who is creole can be black.
Wikipedia - under the heading, “New Orleans and Louisiana Creole,” it states that “Whites, Blacks, Indians, and those of mixed race can all be creole.” Thus, it seems that a creole can be black.
I feel that if a white politician said something similar, but substituted “vanilla” for “chocolate” and “white” for “black” or “African American,” he/she would be labeled a racist by many, even if the community was predominantly white before.[/quote]
While you ignore that the very blatant difference is that not once has the entire white race been seen by society as a negative. Racism includes an attempt at elitism while also degrading those of a different race. Neither were accomplished or intended by his statement meaning you lose any point you truly wish were there.
Next question, was there a perception by many displaced blacks that they were being left out of the rebuilding process?
Key word here being perception. I personally don’t know if there are real cases of blacks being left out of the rebuilding process. I do know for a fact that Nagin publicly whined that he was worried about his city being overrun by hispanics.[/quote]
That wasn’t the question.
[quote]
WTF?
If iwas to post something on this board saying that I was worried about America being overrun by hispanics, I would get seriously flamed. And rightly so.[/quote]
You sure would, because worrying about being “overrun” by hispanics implies that Hispanics are a negative and that you despise them. That is racist because it shows elitism by you and an attempt at degrading another race not of your own specifically.
[quote]
Question #3- Could you please point out a CURRENT event where American whites in majority have either been publicly degraded because of race, had a crime committed by an individual or small group of people used to define their entire race, or been misplaced due to a natural event and held the belief that they were being left out of the repopulation and rebuilding due to race?
I’ve seen Farakkan, Sharpton, and even Hillary degrade the white majority often and when it suited them.[/quote]
When has society degraded whites as an entire race? When has the public perception been that being white is a negative?
[quote]
I personally don’t believe that blacks are being left out of the rebuilding process due to their race specifically. But if you can show me real cases where this has happened I would love to read them.[/quote]
This isn’t what you were asked. You were asked if you were aware of there being the perception that blacks were being left out of the NO rebuilding process. You won’t answer this directly because you know where it will lead. You know that if you admit that the perception was there, then speaking to those who hold that perception is not a racist act.
[quote]
All of this however takes away from the fact that nagin publicly stated that he does not want too many white folks living in NO.[/quote]
He didn’t say that. Why change what he said?
I don’t think the color should be a focus. I never would have written a speech that could be left open to such attack or open to “interpretation” by those willing to do so. I do realize, however, that race is still an issue in America and to pretend otherwise is simply childish. When there are still people alive, especially in the south, who remember seeing “colored water fountains”, pretending as if perception is not reality would also be the wrong way to lead a large group of people. Both the way Nagen handled this situation, and the potential alternative of completely avoiding the issue are wrong in this case.
[quote]TommyGunn wrote:
RHINO928 wrote:
FWIW, Nagin is not “black”
He is Creole, as was/is New Orleans.
You that continue to accuse him of being racist with his “chocolate” statement are off the mark.
It was stupid and could easily be misconstrued as racist, however it was not racist by intent.
A person who is creole can be black.
Wikipedia - under the heading, “New Orleans and Louisiana Creole,” it states that “Whites, Blacks, Indians, and those of mixed race can all be creole.” Thus, it seems that a creole can be black.
I feel that if a white politician said something similar, but substituted “vanilla” for “chocolate” and “white” for “black” or “African American,” he/she would be labeled a racist by many, even if the community was predominantly white before.[/quote]
My grandmother on my mother’s side is creole, thus why I know some french. It implies a racial mixture of those from French or Spanish descent who originally settled in Louisiana. It is not simply used to imply “black” in the sense you just tossed it in there. Louisiana had a very dark, mystical and almost completely unique history from any other state in this country. Those who have actually been there know this. It was not like any other city in that context because its roots were in a very mixed cultural background with much of it resulting in a large percentage of blacks with many of European and Native American heritage intermixed as well. My grandmother was light skinned “black” with blue eyes. Needless to say, she would not fit most stereotypes of “black” culture, thus making your basic overview of a Wikepedia definition quite insufficient.
If a white politician made that statement, and all else was the same historically down to white slavery and a perception that whites were being left out of the rebuilding process, it would also NOT be racist. That is because racism is an attempt at ELITISM while degrading those of another race. To leave that out of your understanding is incompetent, if not malicious on your part. Therefore, was anything said that implied black elitism…or degradation of the white race? Or will you pretend that our society is equal and that blacks are not still largely discriminated against in our current society?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
TommyGunn wrote:
RHINO928 wrote:
FWIW, Nagin is not “black”
He is Creole, as was/is New Orleans.
You that continue to accuse him of being racist with his “chocolate” statement are off the mark.
It was stupid and could easily be misconstrued as racist, however it was not racist by intent.
A person who is creole can be black.
Wikipedia - under the heading, “New Orleans and Louisiana Creole,” it states that “Whites, Blacks, Indians, and those of mixed race can all be creole.” Thus, it seems that a creole can be black.
I feel that if a white politician said something similar, but substituted “vanilla” for “chocolate” and “white” for “black” or “African American,” he/she would be labeled a racist by many, even if the community was predominantly white before.
My grandmother on my mother’s side is creole, thus why I know some french. It implies a racial mixture of those from French or Spanish descent who originally settled in Louisiana. It is not simply used to imply “black” in the sense you just tossed it in there. [/quote]
My best friend is Haitian and speaks French as well. Someone down the line in his family is white (maybe a great-grandparent). He is still black, and considers himself as such.
So, your definition of creole is accurate, but not that of an encyclopdia or dictionary? That is close-minded to say the least. You just dismiss something because you do not like it. A creole person can be black. If you disagree with that, then you are ignorant. The poster stated that Nagin is not black, he is creole, inferring that a creole person cannot be black. That is inaccurate.
Explain to me why it is insufficient.
There are black people with light skin and non-brown eyes. They are still black. What is your point?
Why do you mention slavery? What does slavery have anything to do with it?
Why do black people feel like they are being left out? The majority of black people down there have the perception that they are being excluded? Show me the link for this please so that I can see the poll for myself.
Nice condescending tone (“To leave that out of your understanding is incompetent, if not malicious on your part.”). I have seen how you have that tone with a lot of people who do not agree with you.
I do not need your definition of racism. Here is the definition of racism straight from a dictionary: 1) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Well, let me see. The black people I know have jobs and all had the opportunity to go to college. Some went, some did not. Some make more money than me, even though I have more education under my belt than them. Do people think differently about them in a negative way just because they are black? Yes, of course some do. Just as some black people look at me in a negative light. But that does not mean discrimination is on a grand scale, imo.
From your question, you obviously feel that our society is not equal and that blacks are still largely discriminated against in our current society. That is your opinion. Other people will agree with you. Others will not.
So, to answer your question - No, I do not feel that blacks are largely discriminated against in our current society. And neither do the black people I know.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
TommyGunn wrote:
RHINO928 wrote:
FWIW, Nagin is not “black”
He is Creole, as was/is New Orleans.
You that continue to accuse him of being racist with his “chocolate” statement are off the mark.
It was stupid and could easily be misconstrued as racist, however it was not racist by intent.
A person who is creole can be black.
Wikipedia - under the heading, “New Orleans and Louisiana Creole,” it states that “Whites, Blacks, Indians, and those of mixed race can all be creole.” Thus, it seems that a creole can be black.
I feel that if a white politician said something similar, but substituted “vanilla” for “chocolate” and “white” for “black” or “African American,” he/she would be labeled a racist by many, even if the community was predominantly white before.
While you ignore that the very blatant difference is that not once has the entire white race been seen by society as a negative. Racism includes an attempt at elitism while also degrading those of a different race. Neither were accomplished or intended by his statement meaning you lose any point you truly wish were there.[/quote]
What am I ignoring?
I have read many of your posts, and you seem like a very angry person who thinks white people are out to get you and other black people. And when you do not agree with someone with regard to race, you lash out at him. Why is that? I am going to assume that you have had negative experiences with white people, and that is why you think the way you do. Other black people have had negative experiences as well, but they do not think as you do. My best friend is black, and his attitude is: When I succeed in life, I attribute it to myself. And when I fail in life, I also attribute that to myself. He does not blame white people for anything. He directed that comment to a black guy who has the same attitude as you. You mentioned in another post that someone wrote you up. You mentioned that another guy who is hispanic never got written up for being late. Did the guy who reported you say it was because you were black? In your mind, it HAS to be because you are black and it cannot possibly be ANYTHING else.
Thank you for telling me I lose points with you for not saying something.
The ENTIRE black race is seen by society as negative? You seem to take the isolated incidents of racial prejudice that you have experienced and apply it to the whole white world. I have black friends and they do not think as you do, so your perceptions of the world regarding racism and discrimination are not universal among black people.
[quote]TommyGunn wrote:
My best friend is Haitian and speaks French as well. Someone down the line in his family is white (maybe a great-grandparent). He is still black, and considers himself as such.[/quote]
I am also black. Congratulations that you have friends.
[quote]
So, your definition of creole is accurate, but not that of an encyclopdia or dictionary? That is close-minded to say the least. You just dismiss something because you do not like it. A creole person can be black. If you disagree with that, then you are ignorant. The poster stated that Nagin is not black, he is creole, inferring that a creole person cannot be black. That is inaccurate.[/quote]
What? Who dismissed that creoles can be black? I explained to you the difference and that, while they may fall into the definition of “black”, many would actually have a hard time labeling some of them only on physical characteristics. You clearly comprehend very little. That is the difference, and in my opinion, a rather significant one considering what you are implying.
[quote]
Explain to me why it is insufficient.
There are black people with light skin and non-brown eyes. They are still black. What is your point?[/quote]
That while they may be “black”, most of them come from backgrounds with large intermixing of races and cultures. Therefore, believing that a creole is racist against his own blood makes little sense.
[quote]
Why do you mention slavery? What does slavery have anything to do with it?[/quote]
Because this current society is an evolution of past circumstances and has not forgotten them.
[quote]
Why do black people feel like they are being left out? The majority of black people down there have the perception that they are being excluded? Show me the link for this please so that I can see the poll for myself.[/quote]
The poll? How do you expect this poll would be taken with families so spread out that it took some months just to find relatives who had ended up in other states? You honestly did not know this was a common viewpoint? How is it you know so very little about these people yet speak for them?
[quote]
Nice condescending tone (“To leave that out of your understanding is incompetent, if not malicious on your part.”). I have seen how you have that tone with a lot of people who do not agree with you.[/quote]
If it is true, what is your point?
[quote]
I do not need your definition of racism. Here is the definition of racism straight from a dictionary: 1) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.[/quote]
LOL. Let’s go to Wikepedia since you seem to love them so much. They also had this to say:
“On any plausible conception of racism, it usually results in the social, political, and economic advantage of one group in relation to others. After the biologization of the notion of “race” at the 19th century and the creation of “racist theories”, racism was to become one of 20th century’s plague, as in Albert Camus’s 1947 book. The Armenian Genocide, in the early 20th century, would precede the Holocaust (accompanied by Porrajmos and extermination of others “undesirables” by the Third Reich), followed by multiple genocides and segregation-based systems.”
Now, could you please point out to me the advantage given to one group over another in that speech? Who was placed on a hierarchical scale? Oh wait, you didn’t want to take it as far as the truth…just your version of it?
[quote]
No, I do not feel that blacks are largely discriminated against. And neither do the black people I know.[/quote]
Then you have just informed me…of how illinformed you are.
[quote]TommyGunn wrote:
My best friend is black[/quote]
Who cares what color he is?
The same attitude as me? By many views, some might consider me successful as well even though I feel I have a long way to go to reach my goal. I am successful because I worked hard in spite of obstacles in front of me. I do not respect your friend more because he does not acknowledge the obstacles and I would love for your friend to log on and speak for himself.
[quote]
You mentioned in another post that someone wrote you up. You mentioned that another guy who is hispanic never got written up for being late. Did the guy who reported you say it was because you were black? In your mind, it HAS to be because you are black and it cannot possibly be ANYTHING else. [/quote]
I could care less why it was reported and who said anything about a hispanic? Oh, right, you just group people together depending on what language they speak.
[quote]
The ENTIRE black race is seen by society as negative? [/quote]
It sure has been in the past and the last 150 years have been a slow process of erasing those concepts. You didn’t know this?
[quote]
You seem to take the isolated incidents of racial prejudice that you have experienced and apply it to the whole white world. I have black friends and they do not think as you do, so your perceptions of the world regarding racism and discrimination are not universal among black people.[/quote]
How do you know how your black friends think? Do you think I would bring up these issues in front of my friends who could not relate? I would hate for one of them to be speaking for me right now just because I never bring it up in front of them. They would be making the same mistakes that you are. The sad thing is, you didn’t even consider this.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
The same attitude as me? By many views, some might consider me successful as well even though I feel I have a long way to go to reach my goal. I am successful because I worked hard in spite of obstacles in front of me. I do not respect your friend more because he does not acknowledge the obstacles and I would love for your friend to log on and speak for himself. [/quote]
Most people, black and white, are successful because they worked hard and had to overcome obstacles. Congratulations. Your story is nothing new.
My friend acknowledges obstacles, as do other people I know…black and white. But he does not consider race an obstacle.
[quote] I could care less why it was reported
[/quote]
You do not care why it was reported, yet you ignorantly assume it was because you are black.
He was white?
It being slow is your opinion. Other black people feel differently. You did not know this?
Because they tell me. It is called having a conversation. I take it you never heard of it. Try it sometime, instead of speaking at and down to people who do not agree with you.
I really do not care if you would or not. You do not speak for every black person, nor does every black person think like you. Is that something that you have a hard time comprehending? What you, one person, would do, is irrelevant as to what they do.
They feel the same way I do regarding racial discrimination/prejudice, so I am not making a mistake - I know how they feel.
X, mabey we should keep T-Nation a " vanilla" society, because it is predominantly white! Nothing wrong with that is there?? It was started by white people, and there are a few minority people in here but the vast majority is white, which it should be if we follow nagin’s logic. Lets just keep things as they are. Do you not see where this might be offensive to some?
[quote]TommyGunn wrote:
Most people, black and white, are successful because they worked hard and had to overcome obstacles. Congratulations. Your story is nothing new.
My friend acknowledges obstacles, as do other people I know…black and white. But he does not consider race an obstacle.[/quote]
As I said, why don’t you stop speaking for your friend. You have no clue what your friend thinks.
[quote]
You do not care why it was reported, yet you ignorantly assume it was because you are black.[/quote]
I ignorantly assume? I assume nothing but the fact that I stand out more than others. As such, I act accordingly. What I do know is, the same rules do not work for all in my work place apparently and that is the only issue specificaly made of it.
[quote]
He was white? [/quote]
He uses the term “latino”. From what I understand, there is a difference between the two references.
[quote]
It being slow is your opinion. Other black people feel differently. You did not know this?[/quote]
How do you know how other black people think?
Again, why do you think your black friends would discuss many of these topics with you the same as they would others from similar backgrounds?
[quote]
I really do not care if you would or not. You do not speak for every black person, nor does every black person think like you. Is that something that you have a hard time comprehending? What you, one person, would do, is irrelevant as to what they do.[/quote]
Hold up, I don’t speak for every black person, but you speak for ANY black people?
[quote]
They feel the same way I do regarding racial discrimination/prejudice, so I am not making a mistake - I know how they feel.[/quote]
X, mabey we should keep T-Nation a " vanilla" society, because it is predominantly white! Nothing wrong with that is there?? It was started by white people, and there are a few minority people in here but the vast majority is white, which it should be if we follow nagin’s logic. Lets just keep things as they are. Do you not see where this might be offensive to some?[/quote]
If after this entire thread, you still do not see the points made, it would be a waste for me to explain in detail for what must be the 5th or 6th time in this thread alone.
I’m not X, but I certainly brought the concept up of some people having a “need” to find non-white sources of racism for some reason.
I’m wondering if it is because they are reading some blogs or web sites with a racial agenda or something (with respect to this issue anyway).
Really, to be blind to the issues around the speech, and to be looking so hard for reasons to call Nagin racist, it is troubling.
Why don’t you tell us why it so important to convince the world that Nagin is racist? What are you hoping to achieve by promoting such a viewpoint?
It would seem to be some type of squelching of minorities, such that it was more difficult for them to speak out, about anything. There is another thread about that concept…