[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
The Truth About Islam in Europe | The Brussels Journal [/quote]
Was anybody convinced that islam isn’t the most intolerant entity in the world today? I mean really. That doesn’t mean there are not tolerant muslims, but as a whole it is intolerant. Just think of all the reasons muslims come up with for people to die.
Name a teddy bear after mohammed, make a cartoon of mohammed, write a book critical of islam, being jewish, not being muslim, being muslim, but the wrong kind, etc. All these, at one time or another has been, been a reason for for the public calling of death by muslims.
Man are they in need of reform. Perhaps a good gay leader.
[quote]pat wrote:
Perhaps a good gay leader.[/quote]
Nahhh…too easy.
Plus, I actually respect other people’s faiths.
The thread was started to dispel the canard that, in its heyday, Islamic civilization was tolerant and that only now has it become intolerant. I’ve heard it mentioned in the “Jihad in the Hadith” thread.
Muslims are extremely peaceful…until they dont get their way.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
The thread was started to dispel the canard that, in its heyday, Islamic civilization was tolerant and that only now has it become intolerant. I’ve heard it mentioned in the “Jihad in the Hadith” thread.[/quote]
Oh, you meant we should read the link?
No it can’t be. Medieval Europe was filthy and ignorant, while the middle east was the world’s center of enlightment. Don’t you watch Hollywood Blockbuster documentaries?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Plus, I actually respect other people’s faiths.[/quote]
Why should I respect another person’s irrational (read: borderline dangerous) rants and delusions?
It’s like saying, “I respect intolerance and bigotry, cause I’m open minded”.
I don’t, that includes christian beliefs, too, of course.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
lixy wrote:
Plus, I actually respect other people’s faiths.
Why should I respect another person’s irrational (read: borderline dangerous) rants and delusions? [/quote]
Whoever said you should? Personally, I do so because my “irrational delusions” command me to do so. Might also have something to do with the way I was raised, I spent my childhood in a Catholic school.
[quote]It’s like saying, “I respect intolerance and bigotry, cause I’m open minded”.
I don’t, that includes christian beliefs, too, of course.[/quote]
And that is your right to do so. But the problem starts when you generalize and paint whole communities with a single brush. In recent memory, we’ve seen this with the Jews, Gypsies, communists and others. Do you honestly believe the Soviets were happy or that the handful making all the ruckus was speaking for them?
If you think I am intolerant and bigoted, then don’t respect me. That’s your choice and yours alone. However, when you say I don’t respect you because of your religion, you’re heading for trouble. It is shameful that we are even having this discussion in the 21st century after all the excesses of racism and discrimination the world has witnessed in the past.
Disrespect people if you want, but please don’t include me in the lot just because of my faith.
And since we’re on the topic of Islam, it will be interesting to see how the following work is received:
[quote]lixy wrote:
And since we’re on the topic of Islam, it will be interesting to see how the following work is received:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm[/quote]
Sounds like a lofty enough goal. Wish they’d stop driving Orthodox Christians into extinction though.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
And since we’re on the topic of Islam, it will be interesting to see how the following work is received:
Sounds like a lofty enough goal. Wish they’d stop driving Orthodox Christians into extinction though.[/quote]
The Turks, by now, should be aware that Islam is an Arabist religion. Ataturk translated the Qur’an into Turkish and suppressed Islam in Turkey for precisely this reason. If this ‘Reformation’ includes re-interpreting the traditional understanding of jihad, more power to it. The Turks are so quick to tell you that they are not Arabs, which is laughable considering they pray towards Arabia 5 times a day, they take Arab first names, they worship an Arab moon god, they must visit Arabia once in their lifetime and study Arabic to be considered properly versed in the Qur’an. I’ll be interested to see what Ergodan and his Islamist party have to say about these reforms.
There was nothing in the article about jihad.
Also, perhaps the Muslims reading this thread will weigh in on the epistemological challenges involved in historical redactions of the Hadith. Since the Hadith (Muslim and Bukhari) are used to give context to the statements in the Qur’an (the inerrant word of god), what challenges to that word are now present because of errors in the contextualizing books?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Sounds like a lofty enough goal. Wish they’d stop driving Orthodox Christians into extinction though.[/quote]
That ship has sailed…
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Sounds like a lofty enough goal. Wish they’d stop driving Orthodox Christians into extinction though.
That ship has sailed…[/quote]
It can just as easily turn back to harbor.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Sounds like a lofty enough goal. Wish they’d stop driving Orthodox Christians into extinction though.
That ship has sailed…[/quote]
The ship will have sailed when the Muslims return the Hagia Sophia to the Orthodox church and when Turks stop murdering Christians for their faith:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Sounds like a lofty enough goal. Wish they’d stop driving Orthodox Christians into extinction though.
That ship has sailed…
It can just as easily turn back to harbor. [/quote]
Take it up with Washington. I’m not the one giving the Turkish government tons of money, now am I?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Sounds like a lofty enough goal. Wish they’d stop driving Orthodox Christians into extinction though.
That ship has sailed…
It can just as easily turn back to harbor.
Take it up with Washington. I’m not the one giving the Turkish government tons of money, now am I?[/quote]
In the meantime it’s good to see you denouncing the treatment of Christians in Turkey. Maybe once they’ve finished reforming Islam they’ll recieve fair treatment. Odd though, isn’t it? I mean, these folks doing the reforming see a problem great enough, they’re willing to take up such a controversial undertaking. It’s as if they’ve recognized something others on this here board have refused to see.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
lixy wrote:
And since we’re on the topic of Islam, it will be interesting to see how the following work is received:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Turkey in radical revision of Islamic texts [/quote]
That sounds very encouraging. Thanks for the link.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Sounds like a lofty enough goal. Wish they’d stop driving Orthodox Christians into extinction though.
That ship has sailed…
It can just as easily turn back to harbor.
Take it up with Washington. I’m not the one giving the Turkish government tons of money, now am I?
In the meantime it’s good to see you denouncing the treatment of Christians in Turkey. Maybe once they’ve finished reforming Islam they’ll recieve fair treatment. Odd though, isn’t it? I mean, these folks doing the reforming see a problem great enough, they’re willing to take up such a controversial undertaking. It’s as if they’ve recognized something others on this here board have refused to see.[/quote]
I’m going to go ahead and dub the press release taqiyya (on the part of the Turks) until further notice. There’s nothing in it about jihad and dhimmitude. I think it’s another plot to bamboozle the kuffar.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
In the meantime it’s good to see you denouncing the treatment of Christians in Turkey. [/quote]
Of course I denounce that. It goes without saying.
They oppressed the Kurds, Assyrians, the veiled girls who wanted to get an education and countless others. The Turkish government is not really a military junta, but it ain’t much of a democracy either.
Again, you mistake what is political for what is religious.
I don’t see what you mean. When I talk about Islam, I refer to the Mohamedian message as I understand it. Not the way an ignorant Turk in rural areas does. More often than not, the latter will seek others to interpret the message for him/her. That is where this “effort” comes in.
If I refuse to acknowledge the issues with Wahabism or other doctrines, it is because I see it - like most people - as an aberration of the original message.