Myth of Tolerance in Classical Islam

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
In the meantime it’s good to see you denouncing the treatment of Christians in Turkey.

Of course I denounce that. It goes without saying.

They oppressed the Kurds, Assyrians, the veiled girls who wanted to get an education and countless others. The Turkish government is not really a military junta, but it ain’t much of a democracy either.

Maybe once they’ve finished reforming Islam they’ll recieve fair treatment.

Again, you mistake what is political for what is religious.

Odd though, isn’t it? I mean, these folks doing the reforming see a poblem great enough, they’re willing to take up such a controversial undertaking. It’s as if they’ve recognized something others on this here board have refused to see.

I don’t see what you mean. When I talk about Islam, I refer to the Mohamedian message as I understand it. Not the way an ignorant Turk in rural areas does. More often than not, the latter will seek others to interpret the message for him/her. That is where this “effort” comes in.

If I refuse to acknowledge the issues with Wahabism or other doctrines, it is because I see it - like most people - as an aberration of the original message.[/quote]

Well what about the jurists? Do they see it the same way you do? Is Al-Azhar University going to endorse these Turkish reforms?

Wahabism was an effort to return to orthodox Islam, but by all means, try and convince those jurists to throw the gates of ijtihad open again.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
In the meantime it’s good to see you denouncing the treatment of Christians in Turkey. [/quote]

It must be easier to blame all your problems on the USA.

What do you mean I mistake the political for the religious? You honestly don’t think this a religious issue? The attacks on Christians, and laws strangling Christian growth aren’t religiously based?

I hope everyone has noticed the sleight-of-hand here.

On the other thread, lixy portrayed Mohammed as a great general, a brilliant leader and so on and so forth. Islam, according to him, is not in need of reform because most Muslims interpret the Qur’an peacefully for themselves.

Yesterday, he provided us a link announcing Turkish reforms necessitated by historical redactions of the Hadith. Why are reforms even necessary, if we’re to understand lixy properly? Why are the removal of passages in canonical Islamic texts for the sake of attenuating retrograde cultural effects even necessary? Is Islam in need of reform or isn’t it? Moreover, didn’t Buhhari and Muslim take their ahadith out of the Qur’an itself, at least in part? Is the Qur’an in need of historical redaction as well?

Unanswered questions here.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I hope everyone has noticed the sleight-of-hand here.
[/quote]

Sleigh of hand? Lixy?

Well, yeah.