Mykayl's Program

for those interested, here are some clarifications concerning bill pearl’s past steroid use and vegetarianism. the first quote is taken from a site called “vegetarian bodybuilders”:

~ He won the professional Mr. Universe title in 1971, at the age of 41, without the use of steroids and as a vegetarian, and is recognized as one of the all-time greats of bodybuilding. Bill’s diet is lacto-ovo vegetarian, which means he eats eggs and dairy products.

He describes his experiences with the conversion to vegetarianism. “With each succeeding year the diet (lacto-ovo vegetarian), I’ve felt better. I’m more healthy, I can train with more energy, and I’m not as much of a “hard guy” as I used to be. I’ve become more concerned with my fellow man and the other inhabitants I share the planet with. I have now been vegetarian for almost 20 years. We have no fish, fowl, or red meat in our diet. Yet I can still carry the same amount of muscle as I did in winning my four Mr. Universe titles. People can’t believe it. They think that to have big muscles you have to eat meat - it’s a persistent and recurring myth. But take it from me, there’s nothing magic about eating meat that’s going to make you a champion bodybuilder. Anything you can find in a piece of meat, you can find in other foods as well.” ~

these two Q&A’s are taken from the dennis weis interview:

~ Have any of the top physique men you know to have taken anabolic steroids had any serious side effects?

  BP: Yes! There was a former Mr. America who passed away from the effects of anabolic steroid use. There have been numerous other physique stars who have quit the sport of bodybuilding because of it. I think if anabolic steroids were taken under a doctor's supervision and taken as they were prescribed, then there may be a place in the sport for the drug itself.
  I'm opposed to the abuse of it. I was in Portland, Oregon, a few years ago on a lecture tour, and I was shocked to learn that many of the younger physique contestants were taking more steroids for the amateur Mr. Oregon than many of the top physique stars take prior to entering a national show. The sad fact was that 99% of these younger guys had absolutely no potential in the sport at all.

Did you ever take them for a contest, or have you taken them all along?

  BP: Oh, no! I've only taken them for a short period of time back in 1967, for a 6-8 week period under a doctor's supervision like I'm telling you. I got off of it after that, and I have never touched them since, because I could see that it was just something that didn't make me feel good about myself, and I said I'll get out of the sport and I'll quit training all together if that's what I've got to subject myself to, to stay in it. ~

he apparently didn’t feel there was enough competition from roid users after quitting them, which explains why he continued to enter pro contests and win.

he sells supplements on his website, but he also has an article on basic nutrition that points out that everything a person needs can be derived from a lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet, and that although steroids can help some people in conjunction with a proper diet and exercise program, steroids do not enhance athletic performance in and of themselves. in other articles, he stresses the importance of taking a multivitamin supplement to make up for the lack of nutrients in modern produce.

he doesn’t endorse any of the supplements he sells in any of the training programs he has on-site; however i don’t know what view he expresses in his training books. he does however point out that meat is unnecessary to build mass, and that everything found in meat can be found in veggies, eggs and dairy products. he also says that meat contains over 250 different chemicals, many of which are known carcinogens.

this is why i quit eating meat myself. since my disease makes me chemically sensitive, i figured it would be a good way to cut down on toxins that can exacerbate my condition; it worked, and i don’t get sick as much or for as long. however, i found another added benefit: i am no longer inhibiting my hormone production to the degree that i did while eating meat. meat also contains hormones fed to the animals to make them grow faster–hormones which are detrimental to human hormone production. i also drink out of glass beverage containers as much as possible now, due to the fact that toxins in plastic containers can also lower hormone levels.

that may explain why i’m putting on lean mass relatively quickly now (20 lbs since august), in spite of the muscle-weakening effects of my illness. i feel much more aggressive and energetic than i did when i was eating meat, no doubt because my testosterone and GH levels are higher.

so in essence, slow gains are more easily remedied by excluding hormone-diminishing substances from one’s life, and by finding a program that optimizes one’s natural potential for muscular hypertrophy.

another point to consider: according to various sources–both on T-Nation and offsite–arnold only took 2-3 years of bulking preparation to achieve his competition size, while others (some on steroids) took anywhere from 5-15 years. by some accounts, others were getting similar results in 2-3 years without steroids, by modifying popular training programs by increasing volume and frequency. despite allegations that arnold himself used steroids to bulk up, others made similar gains to arnold without them. in other words, those guys already had the hormone levels needed to optimize mass-building efforts–the programs they devised helped them to achieve their potential in record time.

the meat may have been bad, but it had not yet taken its health toll on the entire population. that explains why steroids only gave some men of arnold’s era a 5% advantage (those mildly effected by the tainted meat), while today, they give many an advantage closer to 20% (modern folks with a serious hormone deficiency due to generational effects of eating tainted meat). (somewhere on this site there is an article giving examples of how much testosterone levels have decreased in the last half-century; i’ll find it and reference it when i edit this post.)

in reality, the quick gains of past “natural” bodybuilders are a hallmark of a time before our species began to hormonally decline into the pathetic creatures we are today, due to our inferior diets of hormone-fed animals and our use of plastics. steroids aren’t the answer to keeping up with the “genetically gifted”; abstaining from meat or eating untainted meat products is the answer. we still have the potential to grow fast; we just have to bust out of the commercial and propaganda cages that impede that potential. bill pearl himself is a prime example of how long that potential lasts when toxins are removed from the diet: to this day, in his late 70’s, he still has 20 inch arms.

people will do what they want, but dietary modification to naturally restore one’s hormonal balance seems more healthy and viable than using steroids, creatine, BCAA, etc., all of which only mask the deeper problem by remedying the symptom. as i and many others have found out, they provide no significant bulking advantage when a person has optimized their diet and training. any man of normal health has the potential to build 20" arms in 1-3 years; the key is to first attain that baseline state of prerequisite health, and properly utilize volume and frequency principles in training.

i’m not saying everyone should run out and jump on the vegetarian bandwagon, or even try my style of training; however, it is all very good food for thought.

^…^

prof. chaos, thanks for commenting on my routine in its own thread. also, thanks for agreeing to try it out. please blog any results you get, especially if you decide to stick with it for 6 months or longer; any documentation is good, whether you feel the results are good, bad, or mediocre.

for anyone else who has decided to try it out, please blog your results as well, and what it feels like to train on this program. also, please post a note in this thread letting others know that you’re documenting your results.

for anyone who hasn’t seen the program in its entirety, you can find it on the 6th page of the zane or cutler thread, in the physique and performance photos forum.

thanks to all open minded participants, and stay strong…

^…^

[quote]Professor Chaos wrote:
an interesting introductory review

[quote]rutkowsky wrote:
last week i started a similar high frequency program where i do (for a month or two) monday: one exercise for each upper body part in five sets of five, (where i work up the intensity, starting at 60%) tuesday: lower body five sets of five again 60%, wednsday upper body 70%, thursday lower body 70% five sets of four and friday upper b. 90% and sat. lower b. 90% five sets of two to three reps sunday rest i repeat from monday in the same fashion 60-70-90 % hopefully adding weight to bb or db, also every workout over the course of week i use different exercises (no repeats in the same week), one thing to remember on high frequency programs is to have a high protein and bcaa intake.

Two months ago i started lifting again after a three year break, (My PR bench press 230kg, squat 360kg, deadlift 390kg) i’ll see how it goes this time. I have replied to this thread as i believe there is a place for high frequency programs but i like to change my programs every 4-8 weeks, so is Mykayl’s program supposed to be done year long? Also is Mikayl’s program more suited towards bodybuilder or a strength athlete?[/quote]

BTW, which one are you in your profile photo? just wondering. what exactly is your goal–size, strength, or both?

your weights sound pretty heavy (i don’t know what it is in lbs, but it must be pretty high). but at the volume you’re working, i can see why you’d need to change up every month or two. i could make gains on a program like that for a little while, but the minute my strength/size went up significantly, i’d have to double the volume to keep growing. you might be able to compensate for lack of volume with BCAA, but even that has its limits.

i used to use the same routine you described when i had a job, but i had to eat a huge amount of calories just to maintain my weight; i didn’t even grow, and i didn’t get any stronger after the first month. working back and forth every day like that is like doing full body workouts 3x a week. bulking requires calorie conservation, which means using a program that doesn’t call all the muscles into play at once, or that doesn’t work each body-half frequently enough for recovery times to overlap.

that’s why blitzing each muscle group once a week with lots of sets works better than traditional splits or full body workouts. if you hit chest monday, back tuesday, shoulders wednesday, thighs thursday, posterior chain friday and abs saturday, you would ration calorie expenditure, and recover better and faster.

try doing it like that, with 20 sets per each bodypart. it would give you more overall volume per week than your current split (5 sets more than you’re doing now per bodypart per week), and you’d expend less calories while recovering. you could eat less protein that way, cuz your metabolism wouldn’t be cutting into your protein for use as an energy source (a lower protein requirement is good, cuz it gives your liver and kidneys a rest). if you want to spend your hard earned money on BCAA that’s your choice, but if you broke things up a little better, you wouldn’t need them so much. you could get by on less than a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (i don’t know how that figures metrically), and still grow faster than you do on your current program.

the once a week blitz routines are pretty decent, and you could probably add a lot more sets cuz your strength to bodyweight ratio seems pretty high. but hitting a muscle once a week with so much volume can be bad on the joints and tendons, which is why i use the routine i do. right now, i could handle 36 sets per workout for a blitz, but if it got to the point where i required 144 sets a week per bodypart to keep growing, that would be overkill to squeeze it all into one workout for one bodypart.

working each half of the body for a week straight makes the stress cumulative (easier to recover from), and i still get the same type of conservative caloric expenditure effect because each half gets a week’s rest.

people don’t think about this stuff much, but when you put it into practice and compare it to programs that don’t take such factors into account, you get a first-hand experience of just how much of a difference it makes.

Just multiply kg by 2.2 and you’ll have lb. The other guy on the picture is Mariusz Pudzianowski, 3 time world strongest man and a good friend of mine, that picture is from my home town where he just one another europe’s strongest man title and my goal is a bit of everything at the moment- strenght/mass/conditioning, thanx for the breakdown of my program anyway. Because i am coming back into gym my workouts aren’t serious and with the supplement i just want to make sure i recover stay injury free and and gain some. It is January that i am waiting for and am planning to get my numbers back by march, we will see, my work keeps me busy 10 hours a day

come 7th December and i’ll be doing something totaly diffrent thanx for advice anyway stay strong

[quote]rutkowsky wrote:
Just multiply kg by 2.2 and you’ll have lb. The other guy on the picture is Mariusz Pudzianowski, 3 time world strongest man and a good friend of mine, that picture is from my home town where he just one another europe’s strongest man title and my goal is a bit of everything at the moment- strenght/mass/conditioning, thanx for the breakdown of my program anyway. Because i am coming back into gym my workouts aren’t serious and with the supplement i just want to make sure i recover stay injury free and and gain some. It is January that i am waiting for and am planning to get my numbers back by march, we will see, my work keeps me busy 10 hours a day[/quote]

thanx about the kg. thing.

is mariusz pudzianowski a polish name? is your screen name polish? just wondering; i’m fascinated by slavic names and languages. how do you pronounce your screen name? how does mariusz pronounce his name?

my goals are pretty much the same; everything pretty much equal, but concentrating mainly on getting as big as possible as quickly as possible.

the supplements are good for what you talk about, especially if your work takes up too much of your time to really get into training. in your case, it gives you an edge, so i guess that’s worth spending money on.

when i was working, i didn’t have much time for anything else. in that situation i would have benefited from supplementation, but i didn’t have enough money. i probably would have at least gotten some growth if i had taken them.

good luck getting your numbers back up by march. what were your numbers before you took time off?

for future reference, i’ve decided to repost the entire program here.

for those who’ve read about it in other threads, i called it the navy routine cuz that’s where my dad learned it. no, it wasn’t a secret government experiment; it was just something some big dudes came up with to get over a training hump. it worked, so they tried it on smaller guys to come up with a level system so newbies wouldn’t blow their shoulders out the first week trying to do 24 sets per muscle for 6 days straight.

however, my dad’s training buddies had two other names for it that i was reluctant to post at first, cuz some might think it’s superstitious. a few called it “the hand of god”, while most called it “the devil’s yoke”. not because they were superstitious, but as a sarcastic reference to the use of the number 6 in devising the set schemes, and because of the uncanny effect on growth when it’s performed properly (in the case of the devil reference, because it’s a brutal ass-kicker).

if you want strength over size, this routine is not for you. if you want to look like metrosexuals in men’s health magazines, this routine is not for you. the devil’s yoke is strictly a bulking routine, designed to consistently maximize lean mass gains. if you want a bread-and-butter bulking routine for getting monstrously huge as quickly as possible without steroids or supplements, you’ve found it.

THE DEVIL’S YOKE

you will only need to do one exercise for each bodypart for this routine, and no more than 6 exercises total for the entire body. one week you work upper body using three compound exercises every day for 6 days straight, then the next week you work lower body using 3 compound exercises every day for 6 days straight.

upper body week: flat bench, decline bench or dips (bar or dumbbells for bench); a rowing, chinning or pulldown exercise; and an overhead pressing exercise (bar or dumbbells). do every day for 6 days straight; break on sunday.

lower body week: a squatting exercise (barbell, dumbbells, even sissy squats work great), stiff-leg deadlifts (bar or dumbbells), and weighted leg raises (lying or hanging, but preferably the latter). do for 6 days straight; break on sunday. repeat cycle.

level 1: 6 sets per exercise. level 2: 12 sets per exercise. level 3: 18 sets per exercise. level 4: 24 sets per exercise. level 1 is for those who can bench less that their bodyweight. level 2 is for those who can bench their own bodyweight. level 3 is for those who can bench 1.5 times their bodyweight. level 4 is for those who can bench twice their bodyweight. stick to your level, or you will definitely overtrain. the standard for determining your level is 8-12 RM.

no repping to failure, no forced reps; on this program, you’ll fuck up your tendons and joints if you do. only work until the last full, strict rep you can perform on your own, then end the set. occasionally you might push yourself too hard and require a spot on a failed rep, but don’t make a habit of it.

1 minute rest between sets, and 2-3 between exercises. you can take a little longer for squats, but don’t push it; you’ll ruin the effect. i rest for 1.5 minutes between squats; it’s just enough to catch my breath.

each week, start each exercise with a weight you can do 8-12 reps with, then don’t worry about how many reps you can strictly complete after that; if you’re resting only a minute between sets, the number will drop as you work through the sets, usually down to the 3-5 rep range (1-2 reps at the higher volume levels).

stick with that weight for the rest of the week, or until you exceed 12 reps on the first set. when you can do more than 12 reps on any first set, add 10 pounds.

expect to be a little weaker each day of the week as you exhaust more muscle fibers, but stick to the weekly starting weights unless you go over 12 reps. doing so will program your brain to struggle harder against the weight, and give you a rebound recovery effect while you’re resting those muscles.

don’t do more than 1 exercise per bodypart until you get up to level 4; then it’s 12 sets each of 2 compound exercises. that’s optional; you can stick with 1 compound exercise for 24 sets, if you can still pump out reps for that long.

when you hit a plateau (i.e., you don’t get stronger or bigger for 2 months or longer, and possibly lose some strength), take 2 weeks off, do light aerobics to pass the time (15-30 minutes a day), then start back up. use the weights you last used when you return to the gym; if you can’t keep your first sets in the 8-12 range, adjust weight accordingly.

when you get tired of an exercise, just switch to another compound exercise and stick with it until it goes stale. i go back and forth from dumbbells to barbells every 3-4 months; that keeps things fresh. sometimes psychology is the only thing stunting progress.

there’s no arm or calf exercises, cuz if you do it properly, you won’t need any isolation work; your arms will be as sore or sorer than your torso, and your calves will grow in proportion with your legs (the stiff leg deadlifts will insure that). if you do arm work on top, you’ll just give yourself tennis elbow, make it difficult to do rowing exercises, and slow down your arm growth.

at the very minimum, take a basic multivitamin with iron, eat a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight, 1.5 grams of carbs per pound, and whatever fat you get from whole milk, eggs, meat, etc. generally speaking, you should eat as much as your hunger tells you to when working this program, and possibly a little more if you’re still not getting the above minimum requirements.

it works because each day of the workout, you stress parts of the muscle you didn’t stress the day before, because there’s no time for those fibers to recuperate. basically, it works because you shock your body into recuperating faster to try to keep up with the chronic accumulation of stress, and then those muscles recuperate and grow the week they’re resting cuz of the snowball effect. squats spike GH and testosterone levels, so 6 days of squats every workout cycle will ramp up your hormone levels to meet your recovery needs. also to be considered is the MGF/IGF-1Ea ramping effect outlined by Chad Waterbury in his article How Your Muscles Grow, and how that would apply to the cyclical effects of this program.

although it will always be intensive and involve a level of pain you might not be accustomed to, it will increase your energy and endurance levels dramatically, which will allow you to continue training with the proper fervor. the first 2 weeks will always be the hardest, no matter what level you start on; prepare to pep-talk yourself into sticking with it half way through your first lower body week. after the first month on any particular level, training should be a breeze. that doesn’t mean that you’ve outgrown it and need to up the sets or intensity; it just means that you’re in the zone.

a few people asked me about why 2 pressing exercises, and only 1 pulling exercise for upper body. the answer is, deltoids should never be treated as merely a stabilizer muscle; delts, pecs and lats are all sufficiently large enough to warrant separate direct work for each. if you don’t work delts separately from your chest, they WILL fall behind, and you’ll get shoulder injuries doing bench presses.

i don’t recommend upright rows, because they stress the biceps tendons more than the deltoid tendons, and that lack of stimulation weakens them enough to cause shoulder injuries during bench pressing. that’s something i learned from personal experience, and by talking to a chiropractor about why i was feeling deep shoulder pains. i did them exclusively at one time because overhead pressing was uncomfortable, and i suffered for it.

another thing to consider is lats: if you’re doing pulldown, chinning or barbell rowing exercises, you should do them with an underhanded grip. this is both easier on the shoulders and gives added stimulation to the biceps. doing them with an overhanded grip doesn’t call the biceps into play as much, and they might lag behind. that shouldn’t be a problem with dumbbell rows, however.

as for the big controversy about whether ab work is necessary when doing heavy compound exercises, science is the bottom line. the reality is that if you don’t do direct ab work, you WILL get stronger lower back muscles than abs, and you WILL at some point end up in the emergency room with a lumbar sprain that puts you on your knees. you’ll also have problems with your vertebrae going out of whack, and have to spend a lot of time in the chiropractor’s office.

once again, that’s from personal experience; i went through a period where i didn’t do any ab work while doing leg/lower back work, and both scenarios happened to me. the doctors who treated me told me it was my own fault for avoiding ab work. listen to your doctors before minimizing; it may save you a trip to the hospital to treat a hernia, slipped disc or injured rotator cuff.

5 compound exercises and an abdominal exercise is the least you should ever do to develop all the muscles in your body; don’t believe me, ask your doctor, sports therapist or personal trainer. i recommend leg raises for abs cuz they apply more even stress to the entire abdominal wall, and strengthen the parts of the abdomen that are utilized the most in heavy lifting.

based on my past experience of training consistently on this routine, and from what my father has told me about his own experiences/the experience of his gym buddies, you should be able to attain competition level mass in 1-3 years with consistent use of this routine.

keep an eye on your shoulders, cuz working out at such high volumes and high frequency at the same time might have negative repercussions on joint and connective tissue health in some individuals. i personally haven’t noticed anything to that effect, but everyone is different. this routine may not be for you. as long as you start without any preexisting joint problems, lift properly and stay within the set range of your strength level, you should be all right; however, forewarned is forearmed.

if you’ve had joint injuries in the past that prevent you from consistently lifting maximally heavy weights, you may wish to consider dropping the weights a little to do slow-count reps: darden style 3/3 counts, mentzer style 4/4 counts, or whatever you are comfortable with from personal experience. i’ve tried this method myself due to my own knee and back issues, and it works great. the HIT camp would tell you using slow counts at such high volume and frequency is “overtraining”, but despite the additional soreness it might cause, i’ve never found this to be the case. as long as you’re not going to failure and doing forced reps, using this technique should cause no difficulties for those inclined to use it.

some may find that when they move up into the higher levels, they have difficulty getting the weight up for the last few sets. if you can’t get through all the sets with at least 1 rep on the last few sets, you may wish to up your rep range from 8-12 to 10-15 for your weekly starting weights. that should be enough to ensure you’ll be able to finish all the sets prescribed for your strength level on any day of the training week.

a question i’ve recently gotten was “why 6 set increments?” using 5 set increments for determining levels isn’t enough to push the envelope. using 7 or 8 as the base number would cause overtraining on any particular level, due to the frequency of training involved; the body can only handle so much volume for extended lengths of time. the purpose of this routine is to push the envelope without undertraining or overtraining. it may feel hellish and uncomfortable at times, but unless you’re skimping on nutrition or rest, you will not overtrain if you perform this routine according to it’s formulaic guidelines.

with that all said, stay strong, and grow fast…

UPDATE

i’ve come to the realization that the level system my father told me about may not be applicable to today’s standards.

for example, the overweight guy with a 45" or larger waist. he might be training for a long time before he can move up to level 2. and what about the guy using slow count reps? he might have to train a lot longer to bench his own bodyweight; by then, he may have already outgrown level 1 and have considerably slowed down in his training progress.

another example is women. another example is guys who are naturally strong, despite not being very big. a woman might have a fitness level that exceeds level 1 after training on it for 6 months despite not being able to bench her own bodyweight, and the strong-but-small guy may not have enough mass or cardiovascular fitness to warrant level 3 or 4 training, despite having high numbers on the bench press.

consider also that this program was created by guys in the navy. boot camp leaves one with a higher standard of machismo; one becomes aware that one can always do more than one previously thought. in such a scenario, expectation may overshadow practical concerns.

in addition to this, several T-Nation members beginning on level 2 or 3 had trouble sticking with it after the first 2 weeks. although a military culture supporting this type of exertion might inspire someone to stick with it when starting at such a high fitness level, the average guy will have motivational problems, and potentially miss out on a rewarding training experience. even level 1 is extreme compared to the workloads that most “advanced” lifters these days are pulling.

so with all that in mind, scratch the strength-to-bodyweight ratio standard; here are the new guidelines: regardless of your personal strength or fitness level, start at level 1. work it for 6 months. after 6 months of level 1, jump up to level 2. after 6 months of level 2, attempt level 3 for a 2 week cycle; if it’s too much, stick with level 2 for another 6 months. if you’re ready for level 3 at this point, hit it for 6 months. at level 3, repeat the jump-test each 6 months until you can train at level 4.

the only exception would be if you don’t make any progress the first 3 months on level 1; then you would be ready for an early jump.

so, how are your results coming along ?

Wow. I’m prety sure that this is the biggest ration of bullshit I have ever seen.

It is phenominal.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Wow. I’m prety sure that this is the biggest ration of bullshit I have ever seen.

It is phenominal.
[/quote]

What, a year and half does not seem reasonable to give a routine a shot?

I love this community, but there’s so much bitching i sometimes wonder if you are actually men. Chill the fuck out.

This routine looks a bit like pavels gtg which works.

But- i have to say, if you have 20" (or even 15-18") arms made despite some ‘wasting disease’ you would no doubt be showing off, bragging with fuckloads of pictures, which i don’t see. How about you try the workout yourself, and not distract people from their own goals until you have something sure?

Don’t rag on anything till you try it.

I am not sure you all know what you are talking about.

This “program” spawned, and hijacked in several other threads when it was first brought up. there were some very grand claims made, and none of them were backed up.

If you come to a site like this and call out the entire supplement, AAS, and bodybuilding community, it is reasonable to get called on your claims, and reasonable to get flamed when the grandiose claims are not backed up. That is exactly what happened.

This goes back to November/December of 2006. There is much more to it than just this thread.

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
Don’t rag on anything till you try it.[/quote]

Even if it goes against what you know, what you know works for you, and has nothing to back it up?

And most of the people that “raged” on this program were asking for proof. I mean 24" inch arms is a bit much to claim.

Here is some food for thought:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1321456
"personally, i think roids are for pussies who don’t know how to train properly. "

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1329200&pageNo=3
“what are zane’s measurements in these pics? i’m the same height as him, and i only wear an XL shirt, and he doesn’t look much bigger than me.”

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1237472&pageNo=5
“i agree that most supplements are crap. i don’t use any drugs OR supplements, and i’ve already put on 20 pounds of lean mass in just under 4 months. for me, roids and sups are BOTH a waste of money, cuz from what i understand from others here, most think my natural results are impossible without the juice.”

So One Guy, throw out your creatine, and Whey protein and jump on board with this 24" arms program for the next 1.5 years.

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
Don’t rag on anything till you try it.[/quote]

Have you read any of this crap?

In his last post, he basicaly talks himself in circles about nothing but garbage.

The actual workouts and timeframe in which they are performed are idiotic, and the dude hasn’t even provided any proof of his own results, except for a few lousy pics in his profile, which appear to be of a just recently puberty stricken assclown with no muscle what so ever.

So I’ll rag on it all I want. It’s not like I’m talking shit on a well established s&c coach here.

Give it a shot if you like. Get back to us with the results.

I’d love to be proven wrong.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
I am not sure you all know what you are talking about.

This “program” spawned, and hijacked in several other threads when it was first brought up. there were some very grand claims made, and none of them were backed up.

If you come to a site like this and call out the entire supplement, AAS, and bodybuilding community, it is reasonable to get called on your claims, and reasonable to get flamed when the grandiose claims are not backed up. That is exactly what happened.

This goes back to November/December of 2006. There is much more to it than just this thread.

[/quote]

I agree. I would like to see him prove us wrong but I don’t think he will.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
Don’t rag on anything till you try it.

Even if it goes against what you know, what you know works for you, and has nothing to back it up?

And most of the people that “raged” on this program were asking for proof. I mean 24" inch arms is a bit much to claim.

Here is some food for thought:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1321456
"personally, i think roids are for pussies who don’t know how to train properly. "

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1329200&pageNo=3
“what are zane’s measurements in these pics? i’m the same height as him, and i only wear an XL shirt, and he doesn’t look much bigger than me.”

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1237472&pageNo=5
“i agree that most supplements are crap. i don’t use any drugs OR supplements, and i’ve already put on 20 pounds of lean mass in just under 4 months. for me, roids and sups are BOTH a waste of money, cuz from what i understand from others here, most think my natural results are impossible without the juice.”

So One Guy, throw out your creatine, and Whey protein and jump on board with this 24" arms program for the next 1.5 years.

[/quote]

I just mean the program, doesn’t mean i agree with everything he says. I think in that regard he is an idiot but…I don’t know the training sounds like something i would like to try. I am doing rest-pause so volume is low, I would like to see if i blow up due to the extreme volume and frequency of this style.

I don’t know i just think you should give it at least a mesocycle before it is shot down…

Hey Mykayl could you please check your e-mail and or PM box.
Thanks,Rob.

[quote]That One Guy wrote:

I don’t know i just think you should give it at least a mesocycle before it is shot down…[/quote]

I’m not even getting into anything else but you what you wrote right here. There are thousands of workout routines “possible”. If you believe for one second that the goal should be to try everything for a “mesocycle” (whatever the fuck that actually means) you are a little misguided.

Your goal is to find what helps you reach a goal. No program helps someone “blow up” by itself if you have seen no progress with anything else. Even the shittiest program can produce results if the trainer works hard enough, lifts to get stronger and eats in a way to see progress.

If any doofus can log on with a routine and that makes you want to try them all, you have issues.